asked the Minister for Finance the national debt per employed person in Ireland.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - National Debt.
23.
The national debt per employed person is provisionally estimated at £6,800 as at end-1980.
Is the Minister satisfied that this is not an intolerable burden to be paid by the taxpayers of the future? Will he let me know how this compares with the national debt in other countries? Will he not agree that it is probably the highest in Europe?
I have no information on how it compares with the national debt per employed person in other countries. If the Deputy puts down a question on the matter I will answer it.
I did, but it was ruled out of order. I thought the Minister might know the answer.
The Minister can only give information that is in his brief. If the Deputy wishes to know the position he should put down a specific question.
The common form of any Minister's advisers is that where a comparison with the other EEC countries might yield any fragment of consolation to a Minister it will be put down in his brief. If the comparative EEC figures are not in the Minister's brief it is because they would be damning from his point of view.
I can only tell the Deputy what is in my brief. That information is not in it. I have suggested to the Deputy that he should put down a specific question.
The Minister was asked questions about unemployment half an hour ago and, quite gratuitously, he brought in EEC figures. He has done that today and on every other occasion when he thought they lent colour to what he was saying.
The Deputy should not make assumptions.
I am calling Question No. 24.
We are in the banana republic stage compared with the other EEC countries.
As long as the Deputy says that——
We should be honoured to owe so much money for the privilege of having the Taoiseach, Deputy Haughey, and his crew in power. It is too good for us.
I have called Question No. 24.
24.
asked the Minister for Finance the estimated 1981 national debt as a percentage of the value of the amount of GNP this country produces in a year; and the comparable percentage for 1976.
I presume the Deputy is referring to the size of the national debt at end-1981. It is not possible to provide that estimate as it depends not only on amounts borrowed during the year but also on such factors as movements in exchange rates and the extent to which stocks are issued below their nominal value, which is the amount repayable on maturity and thus the figure used in computing the national debt. National debt as a percentage of GNP in 1976 was 80 per cent.
Is it not the case that at the end of 1980 the national debt, including that owed by State companies, amounted to 116 per cent of GNP? That is much worse than the situation obtaining in 1976 and it is probably worse than that of any other European country with the possible exception of Italy.
I cannot accept what the Deputy has said.
I can tell the Minister that is the case. I have bothered to look up the matter.
Will the Minister not agree that the national debt increased from £3,000 million in 1977 to £7,600 million at the end of 1980? In other words, we have borrowed more in the past three years than in the previous 50 years and if we continue borrowing in this way we will not be a creditor nation internationally.
We will not be a creditable nation.
I am sure the Deputy might like that to happen. The position is that we are a most creditable nation and the fact that we can borrow money is an indication of our creditworthiness in Europe and throughout the world.
As long as we go on paying high interest rates.
Is the Minister aware that Deputy Haughey, the Taoiseach, said on 25 May 1976, "We are no longer a creditor nation"——
The Deputy should not quote at Question Time.
He said on that date "We are no longer a creditor nation internationally". He said that in 1976 when he was trying to harm this country.
The Deputy may not make a statement at Question Time.
The Taoiseach made that statement at a time when the national debt was less than half of what it is today.
I am not aware of that.
It is in the Official Report of 25 May 1976 and the Minister can read it for himself.
I am calling Question No. 25.