Vol. 327 No. 5
asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will explain the considerable delays in his Department in relation to the payment of maternity benefit claims; the number of files which are missing and the claims which have not been paid; if the cause has any relative effects on the delay in the payment of disability benefits and unemployment benefits, and if he will make a statement on the matter.
27.
asked the Minister for Social Welfare the number of maternity benefit applications received by his Department between 1 October and 31 December 1980; and the number of such claims still unpaid.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Question Nos. 26 and 27 together.
I do not accept that the position concerning the administration of the scheme of maternity benefit in my Department, as stated by the Deputy, is accurate. None of the files relating to claims for maternity benefit is missing. If for any reason such a file was not available alternative arrangements would be made for payment.
The maternity benefits provided by my Department consist of a weekly maternity allowance payable on a woman's own insurance for a period of 12 weeks, 6 weeks before and 6 weeks after confinement and maternity grants of £8 payable on the insurances of both husband and wife. Payment of maternity allowance to women who have the necessary qualifying contributions is made promptly in all cases provided the necessary claim form is fully and correctly completed and is received in my Department from one to two weeks in advance of the date of commencement of entitlement. Since the beginning of January, however, some delays in payment have occurred mainly because claimants have not quoted both their Revenue and Social Welfare Insurance numbers on claim forms submitted to my Department despite an extensive press and television advertisement campaign in December and January requesting them to do so.
The new maternity allowance scheme for women in employment, for which provision is being made in the Social Welfare (Amendment) Bill, should considerably improve the situation in regard to prompt payment as the claim form will provide for a certificate to be completed in advance by employers in all cases of women on approved maternity leave.
If the Deputy is aware of any cases in which he considers that claimants are experiencing hardship through delay in payment I will arrange to have the cases investigated and payment of benefit issued as quickly as possible.
The number of claims for maternity benefit received in my Department between 1 October and 31 December 1980 was 12,311. Decisions have issued in all these claims with the exception of 390 cases in which further inquiries have been necessary before entitlement can be determined.
Could I have an assurance from the Minister then that the files that were missing have now been found?
Pardon?
Can I have an assurance from the Minister that the files which have been mislaid or misplaced have been found again?
I can give the Deputy the assurance that there are no files missing currently.
So they have been found again.
At the present day I can tell the Deputy that that is the position.
Somebody is telling me different stories from those being told to the Minister. When I contact the Minister's Department with regard to maternity grants I am told that there are files missing. Is that true or false?
The reply is as I have stated, that none of the files relating to claims for maternity benefit is missing.
None?
Not one.
Would the Minister answer the second part of my question, whether the delay reflects in any way the general delay in the payment of sickness and unemployment benefit?
Does it reflect the others?
The delay.
No, they are completely separate sections.
Would the Minister explain more fully why there is such a delay. People in Donegal cannot get through by telephone. Deputies cannot now ring the Minister's office by telephone because——
The Deputy is talking now about a more general——
— there are now so many people trying to get through we cannot get replies.
If the Ceann Comhairle wishes, I will answer that. It is not the question that is here but, if the Ceann Comhairle wishes, I will answer that question. Since the Deputy has raised that question — the question of delays generally — which relate currently mainly to disability benefit and not to other areas if the claims are properly made, I should say that one of the difficulties currently experienced is the change-over which is going on at present. That is also exacerbated by the fact that a considerable number of queries, of the original claims, and of repeat claims, fail to carry the RSI and insurance numbers. I must say, sadly, that in January and February a total of 369 cases brought to me by Deputies did not quote these numbers. Of the total in the Dáil here today, 25 per cent of the questions do not quote the insurance number. If these insurance numbers are not quoted it creates tremendous difficulty for the staff of my Department. We carried out an extensive advertising campaign nationally to let everybody know that this change-over was taking place and that, from the beginning of January, it would be necessary to quote the two numbers in order to ensure immediate payment. I can understand the problems which have arisen with the public in general. But I would appeal to Deputies, when they put in queries, to get the RSI and insurance numbers, when we will deal with any queries from them very quickly.
A question, Deputy.
There is general dissatisfaction. In Question No. 74——
——Deputy Molloy refers to a case going back to 4 October last. Is the Minister aware that there are people who have been without benefits since the beginning of the year, since January, who, when they write to the Minister, cannot get replies? When they try to telephone they cannot get through, the number is engaged because of the huge number of people trying to ring the same number. Is the Minister further aware that when one of my constituents, did get through he was abruptly told to go—a very obscene word was used—followed by a letter from the Minister's Department which was obscene, offensive and abusive and about which I will personally speak to the Minister?
I would ask the Deputy to give me evidence of both these instances. I do not think it is fair to quote them unless there is very specific and definite evidence about them. The staff in the Department have been undertaking a very considerable burden of work with this change-over. Because we discussed this before it started I would have hoped that Deputies would give the staff of the Department their co-operation at this time. I am afraid, looking at the lack of quotation of numbers alone, that has not been forthcoming.
I want to assure the Minister that I have given this very serious thought and I will give him the evidence this evening. But I think it is despicable ——
Please, a question, Deputy.
——of people in a Department of Social Welfare, that the only consideration they have for people who need and are entitled to money, is to use filthy words——
Please, Deputy, this is Question Time. The Deputy must ask a supplementary question or I will have to ask him to resume his seat.
Then they receive a letter written on Department notepaper, enclosed in a Department envelope, written by a person in the Department, which is a reflection on the people the Minister has there. I want an in-depth inquiry into it.
If the Deputy has such evidence and lets me have it I will pursue the matter.
Would the Minister accept that people come to public representatives only when they cannot get what is their entitlement under the social welfare code, that Deputies are more than willing to co-operate with the staff of his Department and do not engage in abusive practices or abuse his staff over the telephone — as he alleges — that Deputies are only trying to secure for their constituents what are those constituents' rights and for which, in many instances, under insurance schemes they have paid?
And that the officials are working under pressure because of the bad system operating?
I do not accept, in the first instance, that people come to a Deputy only when they cannot get something. I would accept that they come to a Deputy ——
Cuckoo.
If the Deputy does not mind, I will answer. I would accept that they come when they do not get something. The reasons they do not get something — and I also am a TD and have found this quite frequently recently — is that people have not quoted their RSI numbers, that consequently the Department have no option but to start writing back to them. That in itself is a long process. Quite a few of the recipients will not be inclined to write back anyway and the problem develops. As an ordinary TD, if I get a question like that, I first get the name and address, insurance number and RSI number and have no difficulty subsequently in sorting out the problem.
Is it true that officials are leaving the Department in great numbers because they cannot stick the system?
I am sorry the Minister is trying to cover it up rather than trying to cure it.
A final supplementary from Deputy Crotty.
I will have to move on if Deputy Crotty does not ask a question.
Could the Minister explain why one cannot get an answer to a telephone call to his Department? It is not because of an engaged line. Having dialled the number one can hear the telephone ringing but it is not being answered. I had four telephones ringing in his Department last week and one was answered after half-an-hour. They were not engaged.
This supplementary question is very far from the basic question. The problem is with the telephones. If the Deputy asks me I will get him detailed information about the telephone situation. I have said in the House previously that our only solution to the telephone problem is a completely new and much larger PABX system. That process is under way but it requires new cabling.
There is chaos in the Minister's Department.
The telephones were ringing.
