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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 23 Mar 1982

Vol. 333 No. 2

Private Members' Business: Employment Creation: Motion.

I move:

That in view of the current unemployment situation Dáil Éireann calls on the Government to establish without delay the National Development Corporation and to provide it with £20 million capital resources for investment in employment creating activities in 1982.

It is becoming very apparent that Ireland is facing an industrial crisis of major proportions. This has manifested itself to the public eye more by the rapid rise in the numbers on the live register in the recent past. It is a matter that was of great concern to the previous Government and the decision by that Government to establish the National Development Corporation was a reflection of the concern which that Government showed in regard to tackling this problem. It can be clearly observed in our history that Governments down the years played an active part in promoting employment and my party down the years supported the concept of a mixed economy where the private enterprise sector was encouraged to progress and prosper and, where necessary, the State sector was seen to play a positive role in ensuring State participation in commercial and non-commercial and industrial activities. That was an important contribution to the economic wellbeing of the nation. I can immediately call to mind a few of the ventures which my party were involved in starting up and supporting. The ESB, the Irish Sugar Company and the Voluntary Health Insurance Board are only a few of the State bodies which my Government actively supported in their establishment and promotion through the years. There are many more since then and it has become clear that the State have an active and positive role to play in the development of our economy.

My party certainly support free enterprise and the role of private investment is seen as of paramount importance to our prosperity. Therefore, it is important that we ensure that the environment for industry, which includes agriculture and agriculture-based industries, and the environment for commerce is such as to promote progress and prosperity in those areas which would result in the re-attainment of an acceptable level of employment. This is not now the case and there are some basic reasons why our economy has not been able to sustain an acceptable level of employment in recent years.

I would identify immediately the international recession which has become evident again since 1979 and which was evident in the mid-seventies as a result of the energy crisis. We have had about three energy crises in the past eight years which have done immense damage to the fabric of our industrial structure. The international recession, which is now affecting Europe and America especially, has done great damage to our potential as an exporting country and has also caused a sharp downturn in investment in Ireland by companies from abroad. Of course this is outside our control but it is a development which we should clearly understand and we should take the necessary steps to ensure that our own industry is aided in every possible way so as to preserve our own industrial structure intact and so that we shall continue to have an acceptable level of industrial investment here.

The other main reason why industry here is not prospering is the rate of domestic inflation. In 1981 it ended up on an annualised basis slightly in excess of 20 per cent. It is important to note that level is seriously in excess of the levels prevailing within the countries of fellow-members of the EEC. I should like to quote from a publication entitled European Economy No. 2, February 1982, Supplement A which is published by the Commission of the European Communities and which gives a table of consumer price indices in regard to 1977-81. The most extraordinary aspect of it is that the rate of inflation in Ireland is indicated in this table as 23.3 per cent. This was in fact the annualised basis up to mid-November 1981; it was slightly lower than that. Nevertheless, the important thing is the comparison which one must make in order to see the damage which inflation in Ireland is causing to industry and to our prospects for further industrial investment in coming years. That rate in Ireland of 23.3 per cent can be compared, for instance, to a rate of 8.1 per cent in Belgium or in Germany a rate of 6.3 per cent, in France a rate of 14 per cent and in the United Kingdom 12 per cent. I have chosen these countries as ones to which we export in substantial quantity and volume. That comparison indicates quite clearly that our inflation rate is unacceptably high in the context of industrial development. It must be obvious that with such a high domestic inflation rate we will outprice ourselves on the markets which are our main customers, and these are the countries to which I have referred. If we insist on pressurising the monetary system, which will result in continued high inflation levels, our prospects for industrial progress are not good. They will be seriously damaged if we allow this situation to continue. It has been quite clearly identified, for instance, in the winter Quarterly Report of the Central Bank of Ireland that the pressure caused by the budgetary policies of the last few years has been the main determinant of this high level of inflation.

The level of budget deficit financing is simply not acceptable. Unless the present Government have a will, we will have a bleak eighties so far as industrial progress and employment are concerned. Unless the present Government are committed to reducing the budget deficit to acceptable levels and eventually to eliminating it, one cannot have confidence in Ireland's future as a land in which foreigners will invest money in industrial enterprise. It is well to say that here rather than to dodge the issue. If we are to remain attractive to foreign investment we must first put our own house in order.

A second item, which again may not be popular for a politician to mention but which is a fact, is that our excessive income increases in the past few years are slowly making us uncompetitive. Our salary and wage rates are slowly but surely approaching those of our competitors, but the unrealised fact is that our productivity is not on the same high level as our competitors', nor indeed is our productivity on a level comparable with the countries to which we are looking for capital investment. Unless we come to our senses it will be very difficult to continue to attract capital.

The result of the international recession and our domestic inflation rate has been a steady increase in the numbers on our live register in the past few years. For instance, at the end of December 1979 the seasonally adjusted live register series showed 84,900 on the live register; at the end of December 1980 the figure had increased to 118,500, and in December 1981 to 137,400. I am mentioning that progression because it shows a steady and deteriorating situation.

It is also worth noting that the makeup of this unemployment increase is balanced seriously towards young people. For instance, people under 25 years of age on 24 July 1981, male and female, amounted to 26.9 per cent of the numbers on the live register. That is a serious situation, especially in regard to school leavers coming on to the market, who will have less opportunity for employment than was the case ten years ago.

As a politician who has survived two general elections in seven months I could not but be aware of the extreme frustration felt by young people who have great ambitions for themselves — ambitions which we would share for them. It was most distressing to encounter young men and women who wanted to work, to pursue a career, to become economically self-sufficient and who found that successive Irish Governments were unable to give them the opportunity necessary to become full members of society. That is something of which we cannot be proud and for which we have a responsibility. We have failed in that responsibility. I could say that it is Fianna Fáil's fault and I am sure that they would say that it is the fault of the Coalition Government. That is irrelevant. The fact is that since 1973 the level of unemployment for young people has gone steadily in the wrong direction and is causing serious social pressures on society.

I am mentioning inflation, the international recession and the unemployment level as the reason for the Coalition Government's announcement that the International Development Corporation would be established, that it would have £200 million capital potential and in 1982 £20 million available for capital purposes. The concept of this corporation is a sound and progressive one. It is sound because we were serious about implementing it and giving it effective power and finance. That is completely in contrast with the National Enterprise Agency which Fianna Fáil set up, without a statutory base and without sufficient capital to make any impression in the area of industrial growth or employment. The amount of money allocated by Fianna Fáil was in the region of £2 million, which of course would be entirely inadequate for the purposes which we have in mind for the National Development Corporation. It should be seen that the corporation would have responsibility in the area of venture investment — in other words that, its criteria having been established by the Minister for Industry and Energy and with the agreement of the Minister for Finance, it would have venture capital available, not only to State trading boards and commercial boards but also to enable them to enter into partnership if necessary with the private sector in ventures of mutual interest and of a new nature.

The public sector has grown substantially over the years and within that sector there is a vast reservoir of skilled manpower and expertise which should now be brought into use for the benefit of the nation. One immediate development which comes to my mind, because I had responsibility for the State board concerned, is the Electricity Supply Board. Their consultancy service overseas was a development which was sound, new and successful. It would be very wasteful if we did not bring into play for our benefit the vast amount of expertise available in State concerns. This consultancy activity of the ESB is something that springs to mind very easily and clearly indicates the potential which is there for further involvement by State companies in new areas of activity. The companies which were initially to come under the National Development Corporation were the Sugar Company, Irish Steel Holdings, Mín-Fhéir Teoranta, Nítrigin Éireann Teoranta and the Irish National Petroleum Company, which is due to be given statutory backing in the near future. I will be taking this up soon with the Minister. Other companies which were to come under the corporation were the Electricity Supply Board, Ceimicí Teoranta, the Irish Gas Board and Bord Na Móna. These are the major State enterprises which would be involved in trading or manufacture and the shares would have been transferred to the National Development Corporation. The idea of the corporation was not to support lame ducks. In fairness, we have to take a broad look at State bodies which are now active and some of which are losing substantial amounts of money annually. Two which come to mind are Nítrigin Éireann and Córas Iompair Éireann.

The Minister for Industry and Energy has a responsibility to ensure that public money is well spent and not wasted. He also has a responsibility to ensure that all State companies under his aegis are operating efficiently, that there is no waste of management or resources, that the taxpayer is getting a good deal for his money and that the nation is getting an efficient service as a result of the Minister's activities. If there is a social element involved in the activities of State trading companies, that should be clearly identified. This is something which should be dealt with by the Department of Social Welfare rather than by the Department of Industry and Energy. The National Development Corporation should be a vehicle for investment in new ventures of State bodies. That is obviously the first important responsibility which it should have. It should also ensure that these State bodies look to new enterprises which could be of benefit to the nation. The corporation will initiate State participation in existing privately controlled commercial enterprises, either by taking a share holding or establishing a joint venture together with private enterprise. State bodies should be allowed to use their expertise for the benefit of private enterprise which, in turn, would allow private enterprise to have the backing of such expertise to go into new areas and new ventures which would create substantial employment. It will also act as a commercial vehicle, where appropriate, for projects involving productive employment.

The co-ordinating role of the corporation is also important and the development strategy which could be used by a number of State bodies, not only within themselves, but also in partnership with private enterprise, could have a significant impact on technological progress and on new complete firms being established. We are, for instance, enjoying investment in technological type industry at present, mostly associated with computer industries but very few of these industries are complete companies. We need to develop a research base and a product development base as well as simply assembling parts of computers or whatever. I see the role here of a number of State industries being involved together with private enterprise in ensuring that we broaden our technological base.

The corporation will also have a supervisory role over the activities of the State enterprises held by this corporation. It will also provide venture capital in areas where there are viable product opportunities and where an investment may need to be made which may not be profitable initially but which would be viable in the long term. We have, of course, employment promotion agencies and industrial development agencies. The Industrial Development Authority have played a pivotal role in industrial investment for a number of years. Recent reports from the IDA show concern for future investment here and this has been recognised by the Department of Industry and Energy. The IDA now, unfortunately, have a prosperous rescue division which plays its part in keeping together firms in trouble. The experience there up to recently has been that the older type firms had been running into trouble and having redundancy problems but, more recently, a serious development has taken place with regard to newly established companies which some years ago were held in high regard. They were held up as examples of the types of industries we would like to see here. Those companies are now in trouble. I will mention Fieldcrest, which has gone to the wall but for which the IDA had high hopes. That company is a clear example of investment by the State. There are many others. A disturbing trend now is that newly-established industries, some of them in the highly technological category, are finding it difficult to get markets because of world recessions.

These are developments which must cause concern to the Minister. They indicate the crisis we are facing in regard to industrial policy. We have had the IDA playing a pivotal role in regard to the attraction and sustenance of industries. The ICC have been playing the role of merchant bank, and Fóir Teoranta have been playing an important role as a State rescue agency. Thus, we have agencies which act on behalf of the State in attracting capital, but in recent years the results in employment have not been such as to ensure that our young people can get employment: there has been a gap between job creations and the numbers entering the labour market. That gap is a serious problem for any Government and it must be tackled positively immediately; it cannot be put on the long finger.

For those reasons Fine Gael feel that there is a need for a new initiative in industrial policy, and that need manifested itself by the proposed establishment of the National Development Corporation. That was an initiative and an effort to harness the vast potential of expertise in the State sector, which is locked in and which should be used more adventurously and with more originality that heretofore. We must concentrate all the State's resources to ensure that progress in industry will be maintained and that we will move back towards full employment.

The employment creation policies of successive Governments have failed to ensure a level of employment that would cater for our young people particularly. That is not an indictment of the IDA. It is a simple reflection of the fact that the growth in our population is posing a greater problem than heretofore. It is because we have not been able to create sufficient jobs through Government policies that we must now try to find a new initiative. The National Enterprise Agency was a flop, a red herring, a failure, because there was lack of commitment by Fianna Fáil. We propose in our motion to embark on something worthwhile to harness the public and private sectors and to allow a much greater degree of flexibility in public sector involvement in the private sector for the benefit of the nation.

It must be understood clearly by the Minister that this is not an effort to bolster lame ducks. Fine Gael insist that all our State agencies should be efficient, and in that respect the Government have a grave responsibility.

I commend the motion to the Minister as a sincere attempt by Fine Gael to bring about a new initiative to achieve greater involvement by the public sector and partnership between the public and private sectors, especially in new ventures. I will conclude by congratulating the Minister on his appointment to a Department which will give him many problems but also many opportunities. I wish him well in that office in the coming few months.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"supports the Government establishing the National Enterprise Agency and providing it with necessary finance for its operations."

First of all I thank Deputy Collins for his good wishes for my new reign in the Department of Industry and Energy. As he said, there will be plenty of problems there. They are there already, as Deputy Collins is aware. Indeed I am sure he was glad to walk away from them and hand them over to somebody else. It will take full dedicated effort by everybody concerned to produce the right solutions to these problems. Of course that is the responsibility of the Government of the day.

As Deputy Collins began I could not help but feel that he was giving us a resume of our economic ills. He referred to inflation as a major problem. Here we have no disagreement whatsoever: inflation is a cancer in this society which has caused major social and economic problems. I assure Deputy Collins and the House that the Government are fully committed to keeping the current budget deficit if not at its present level then possibly below it. We will do whatever is possible within the constraints of a very difficult economic situation to bring inflation down.

As Deputy Collins will agree, these problems cannot be solved instantly. I am sure he will also agree that the problem has existed for some time. Before we left government in 1981 we had taken steps to control inflation through the introduction of subsidies on food and transport. Deputy Collins must also agree that the first act of his Government was to introduce the July budget which had the effect of adding 6 per cent to inflation. If the budget on which the Government fell had been passed a further 6 per cent would have been added to inflation. Unlike Coalition Governments we are committed to pursuing inflation actively.

It is rather surprising that the motion that was moved by Deputy Collins on behalf of himself and Deputy Kelly for the establishment of the National Development Corporation should have been tabled by members of the Fine Gael Party who have never been over-enthusiastic about proposals for such a corporation. The corporation had been agreed purely as part of the joint programme for Government in July last with the Labour Party.

The idea of a national development corporation has been hawked around by the Opposition in one shape or form for the past ten years or more. Indeed, neither the shape nor the form were ever clearly spelled out. It seemed to be something which the Labour Party always claimed was the answer to all our economic and unemployment problems but nothing has ever emerged on the Statute Book or even by way of draft legislation.

Deputies will note that the Fine Gael motion calls on the Government to establish the National Development Corporation without delay. The former Government of which both Deputies Kelly and Collins were members, were about eight months in office; however, despite their commitment to establish the corporation as a matter of urgency and numerous assurances to the effect that it would be established before the end of 1981, the corporation had just been "stillborn" when Dáil Éireann was dissolved and the promised legislative proposals to set up the corporation were still awaited. The calling of the general election heralded the corporation into the headlines but that was the only action we saw. I know that it was announced in a blaze of glory and that Deputy O'Leary, the then Tánaiste, at a press conference eight days before polling day tried to put some face on the proposals the Coalition Government had in mind for the National Development Corporation. I am sure Deputy Collins read the press comments on it and he knows that it finished up in "Gaels of Laughter" similar to what started in the Gaiety Theatre. That was the reaction of the responsible journalists at the time and it is well known that had an election not been called we might not have heard any more about the National Development Corporation for some time to come.

I gave the foregoing brief summary of events in order that the present motion from Deputies Kelly and Collins could be seen in its proper perspective, particularly in relation to the request for the establishment of the corporation without delay. Its establishment appears to have acquired a new sense of urgency since the return of the members of the former Government to the Opposition benches.

As previously indicated, the Government do not propose to go ahead with the proposal of the former Government to establish the National Development Corporation and consider that a large part of the £20 million which was earmarked for the corporation for new projects in 1982 could yield more immediate job creation if applied in other areas of the economy. However, the Government will reactivate the National Enterprise Agency, which was established in 1981 pursuant to a commitment given to the social partners in the national understanding but which effectively has been kept in cold storage during the term of office of the Coalition Government while they sorted out their priorities on the remit for the National Development Corporation. The "freezing" of the agency was regrettable, occurring at a time of rapidly increasing unemployment and when a new radical structure already existed, encompassing venture capital/ development functions and with a potential to make a significant contribution to fostering economic growth and reducing unemployment.

The objectives of the National Enterprise Agency are to establish organisational responsibility for the commercial exploitation of new development opportunities by the State where such opportunities are not being exploited by the private sector, and to provide a mechanism to ensure that commercially-oriented research and development are applied in the economy.

In order to achieve these objectives, the agency's principal functions are: First, to provide commercially viable productive employment by promoting and developing new business opportunities, specifically through the commercial exploitation of projects deriving from the work of research agencies such as the National Board for Science and Technology, An Foras Talúntais, An Foras Forbartha and the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards, the development of projects involving the use of natural resources and participation in projects having a substantial import substitution effect.

Second, the agency will act on its own or in joint ventures with other private or public sector agencies. Whilst its main focus will be on the industrial sector, it is not necessarily confined to this; it may set up subsidiary companies to run particular ventures and may sell them off when they become commercially viable. Similarly it may wind up unsuccessful projects; the general intention is that the agency will fulfil the role of a venture capital agency.

Third, the agency will have responsibility for commercial exploitation by the public sector of new development opportunities not being taken up by the private sector.

Thus the objectives and functions of the NEA parallel very closely the development functions which were envisaged for the National Development Corporation. The primary emphasis in both cases is on productive employment creation.

It is worth recalling that in a radio interview during the recent general election campaign Deputy Kelly stated that when the National Development Corporation does emerge he and everybody else in the Government would be anxious to ensure that the jobs which it creates are productive jobs which justify themselves economically. He said that any other kind of job may, in the short term, take figures off the unemployment list but, in the long term, it would be a millstone around people's necks. This is what the NEA is all about.

I wonder whether Deputy Kelly was aware of what his other people in the Labour Party envisaged for the National Development Corporation and what Fine Gael envisaged for the National Development Corporation. That interview during the general election campaign would give rise to the same opinion that I formed, that Fine Gael were in no way committed to the National Development Corporation. If they were much more action would have been seen in the seven months that they were in government to put some of the things together that would be necessary to bring it on stream.

However, the Agency will not have an advisory or supervisory role in relation to the commercial State enterprises, which was proposed for the National Development Corporation. The Government, however, are committed to reviewing the operation of the commercial State-sponsored bodies and, in particular will be seeking and indeed supporting viable diversification proposals by these bodies into growth areas of the economy.

I listened to Deputy Collins make the point about the excellent professional services being marketed abroad by the ESB in the developing countries in the Far East. I hope he was not trying to give the impression that Fianna Fáil would not support that. We always do. I might even go as far as to say that as a Minister on a visit to Libya I brought back many interesting areas for the semi-State bodies, such as Aer Rianta, Aer Lingus, CIE, B & I and Irish Shipping, to become involved in projects being developed in Libya. As a result, Aer Rianta got a substantial contract out there and others are in the offing. I know that everybody in this House and this country hopes that the other agencies I introduced out there will be successful in getting some contracts in these developing areas. Ireland has a significant role to play in the development of the Far East. We have the professional and management services to offer. My colleague, Deputy Des O'Malley, who has a particular interest in the area of trade and commerce will be interested, as I am. It is an area that has potential for expansion and no effort will be spared on our part to ensure that the maximum advantage will be obtained for Irish employment in developing countries.

We will not get into the area of inflicting on the National Enterprise Agency the added problems that they would have in supervising the role of the operations of these, as Deputy Collins mentioned. If they are serious about doing a job in the job creation area — and that has to be the top priority of this Government — this is the big challenge facing democracy in Ireland today. If we do not succeed in solving this problem we will have to face social upheaval.

The NEA will not be shackled with an albatross of major loss-making enterprises and in this way the agency will be able to get quickly about their principal task of establishing and participating in viable projects. If the agency were also to have the function of evaluating and making recommendations on the operations of and investment programmes by the many and diverse range of enterprises under the remit of the NDC, it would make it impossible for them to concentrate immediately on their development activities and get on with the job we envisage them doing.

I feel it necessary that I should assure the House that there will not be any conflict of role between the NEA and the IDA. The IDA are a promotional and grant giving body whereas the NEA will perform the functions of a development and venture capital agency. There will be very close consultative arrangements between the two bodies and these arrangements will facilitate, where appropriate, NEA participation in IDA promoted projects in the private sector. These arrangements will also enable the NEA to have access to the IDA's considerable body of sectoral expertise and will provide for regular meetings at chief executive and senior management levels.

The Government will be providing not £2 million as Deputy Collins mentioned but a £5 million capital allocation in 1982 to the agency for new job creating projects. If it subsequently emerges that this provision is inadequate urgent consideration will be given to whatever additional finance is required to boost job creation by the agency, thus again underlining the major priority which we attach to tackling our serious unemployment situation. The sum of £5 million being provided to the National Enterprise Agency for capital investment in 1982 is, in my view, adequate for this purpose given the normal time lag between the assessment, development and implementation of projects. Moreover, the intention is that once the agency are operational they will be largely financed from commercial sources. The ability of the agency to raise funds from private sources will be greatly enhanced by not having responsibility tied round their neck for commercial State enterprises whose borrowing requirements not alone for investment but also for day-to-day running expenses are frighteningly colossal.

Lest Deputies may be under any misapprehension about the scale of Government funding for the agency I should perhaps explain that the difference in funding proposed for the agency and that proposed by the former Government for the new business activities of the National Development Corporation is more apparent than real, namely: (1) The agency will be expected to rely more heavily on private investment sources, that is the main financial institutions, to fund their activities and these will be actively tapped. (2) The intervention of the general election, the time-scale envisaged by the Coalition Government for enacting legislation establishing the National Development Corporation and the subsequent establishment of an organisational structure for the corporation would in toto have meant that the corporation would scarcely have been in operation by mid-1982, thus resulting in the likelihood that a significant part of the proposed £20 million capital allocation for the corporation would not have been utilised or even committed in 1982. The NEA, on the other hand, have already been incorporated as a limited company reporting to the Minister for Finance. They are therefore ready to take off. (3) The £20 million earmarked for the corporation by the former Government appeared to have been based largely on the resources which the Government would have liked them to devote to new job creation in 1982 rather than on a firm and definitive assessment of what new business opportunities were realistically likely to be generated by the corporation in that year.

The Government are at present giving consideration to the introduction of an expanded exchange guarantee scheme for foreign borrowing for working capital by small and medium sized manufacturing industries particularly where these firms would not find it attractive to borrow in Ireland. At present there is about £20 million available for disbursement to small and medium sized firms under the additional working capital scheme introduced by the former Fianna Fáil Government in 1980 and under which the Exchequer bears the exchange risk.

I have no doubt but that the associated banks will seek to participate in any new foreign exchange guarantee scheme. The banks are well placed, given their extensive branch network and special and trusting relationships with their manufacturing customers, to get the money out quickly to those who badly need it.

However — and I am not prejudging the Government decision on the new scheme — I would expect that the banks will have to offer something, and something substantial, in return if they are to be parties to any new scheme. At a minimum I would expect some significant initiatives to help manufacturing industry. These initiatives might take the form of the introduction of expanded venture capital funds which might be used by the banks to invest in projects sponsored by the NEA or projects in high risk areas promoted under the IDA's enterprise development programme.

I am not satisifed that up to now the banks have been doing all they could as regards the provision of venture capital. The existence of venture capital agencies in the US was the main reason why the boom in electronics in places like Silicon Valley in California really took off.

Like Deputies Kelly and Collins, the Government are deeply concerned at the level of unemployment which has jumped from 124,000 at the time we left office in 1981 to a record current level of almost 150,000. We regard this level of unemployment as unacceptably high and intend to mobilise all available resources to deal with it. Indeed we must view with concern the apparent resignation by the last Government to a serious worsening of the employment situation with all the consequences it would entail particularly for the rapidly growing young segment of our society seeking jobs and older people who find it difficult to secure new employment. Our people are clamouring for positive policies and action to tackle the unemployment crisis and not negative measures and endless pessimism and gloom about our economy and its prospects for recovery from the recession.

Conscious of the task facing us and the country, the Government are committed to producing, in consultation with the social partners, an emergency plan to tackle unemployment. This plan should help to restore a sense of confidence and enterprise to our people. We recognise that much hard work and co-operation will be required by all sectors of the community and that there is no instant overnight solution to our current problems. My colleague the Minister for Finance in his budget statement on Thursday next 25 March will outline the Government's general strategy and intentions for tackling unemployment.

We hold a totally different philosophy and approach to the whole area of solving the serious unemployment problem. We do not go along with the view or philosophy of the previous Government, expressed abroad by many Ministers, of gloom, doom and pessimism. We fully appreciate that confidence is very easy to lose but very difficult to regain. I have seen evidence of the lack of confidence that existed in the economy in the short time since I have become Minister, both from people abroad and people we expect to invest in the economy. We must invest today to create jobs tomorrow.

I never understood the philosophy of the last Government or their throwing in the towel when it came to the rising unemployment situation. The Taoiseach at the time said it could go to 200,000 but he could do nothing about it. I see Deputy O'Leary in the House and would remind him of an interview last June when he said that, if the new Government did not seriously tackle the unemployment situation and convince people they were serious about it, they would be put out of office. He said that if the unemployment figure went above 100,000 the price they would have to pay was that they would be put out of office. They were put out. If they had not been put out the damage they have done by the gloom and doom they spread and the confidence they lost would have taken longer to repair than it will at this stage.

We are committed to restoring confidence to people in their ability to run their own affairs. We do not share the negative approach of the previous Government. We fully appreciate and recognise the serious financial difficulties that exist but also point out that there is a way to deal with it and it is not by throwing in the towel. We do not intend to do that. The approaches that have to be made by various Ministers will be made. There is an area I could point to straight away and that is the amount of imports coming into the country. A large amount of materials and finished products are brought into this country and paid for on State projects, under State contracts. Only the other day I read in a paper that a builder in a town in Ireland was building 24 houses for a local authority and the baths put into these houses were imported from abroad. The net price difference between imported and home produced was 48p. This happened to be in a town where baths are produced.

We have too many verbalisers and it is time to get out the message that we have serious economic problems. We need full co-operation and commitment from everybody. Our big buyers in the area of supermarket products have a national responsibility to sell and buy Irish whenever the opportunity arises and they should not take the easy way out. The State companies should examine each and every area of their purchasing sections and whenever possible must buy what is produced in Ireland. There is sufficient room in certain areas to identify many small industries that can be created in the towns and villages of this country to cater for the requirements of this State from year to year. We must adopt a new approach to our problems and create a climate of hope and pride in our economy. There is a need and demand for national patriotism at this time. We should work for the country rather than propose to die for it.

Our approach is that of mobilising all the resources that exist. First of all we aim to restore national confidence in the people to solve their own problems and to go forward from there. We will be going into all the areas where we see opportunities to create jobs as soon as possible and we will not just talk about producing agencies such as the National Development Corporation which would make little, if any, contribution to our serious unemployment problems. We take the other view and we tackle the job immediately. The position is very serious indeed. We have factory closures. We must recognise that we are in recession. We must do today what can be done for our economy, using the resources of the State so that when the upturn in world economy comes, as undoubtedly it will, we will be ready with the most efficient infrastructure we can give to take full advantage of this upturn.

We will be looking at every situation as it arises. I heard Deputy Collins mention Fieldcrest. A receiver is there at the moment and I do not propose to comment on it until I get a full report from him, but a lesson is to be learned from that operation, and Deputy Collins is just as aware of that as I am. We must mobilise co-operation in the private and public sectors. We must make everybody realise that we have an economic and jobs crisis and that a contribution is demanded from everybody in this area, in manufacturing, the financial institutions and the State and semi-State sections. A responsibility is on every one of us to make a contribution in whatever area we can. It is only by a total national effort to defeat this unemployment situation that we will succeed. We have the confidence to do it. We believe we can do it. Given the commitment of the social partners and everybody else, we believe a solution can be reached. We have much hard work ahead but hard work never killed anybody. The job is there to be done and we aim to do it.

Has the Minister formally moved his amendment?

First of all, I congratulate the Minister and wish him well in the performance of his onerous duties and I assure him of our support when we think he is facing up to those problems and our constructive criticism when we think he is not. I agree with him that he has a formidable task on his hands because the Department of Industry and Energy is the whole centre of the State's effort in the area of industry and on the input of that Department and the head of that Department depends the success or otherwise of the State's efforts in the period ahead on the all-important front of unemployment.

We are not dealing here with a contest between two bodies favoured by one Government or another. In the few minutes at my disposal I want to make the point that in the setting up of the National Development Corporation the conviction on my part and that of my colleagues in Government was that this body was required if we were to be serious in tackling employment in the long term. Unemployment has both a short-term and a long-term aspect. In the exuberance of coming into office, which is quite understandable, it is understandable also that a new Minister would look with less charity than usual on the efforts of his predecessors, but he will take the point that I accept that that sort of exuberance is responsible solely for such points in his speech as that this is a Government of action and their predecessors were a Government of doom-sayers, and for his use of colourful phrases like "throwing in the towel". Presumably he will learn, in whatever time is available to him, to consider with greater charity the problems and efforts of his predecessors.

To take the short-term aspect of unemployment and how to deal with it, the commitment of the previous Government in their efforts to deal with the short-term aspects of unemployment can be summed up in our work in preparation for the Youth Employment Agency. They are the prime body for dealing with that problem this year and they are at the service of his Government today. Our effort there indicated the serious concern that we had about the growing problem of youth unemployment, a very serious problem which afflicts not us alone but other countries also, and taking into consideration the large proportion of young people in our population, it has social repercussions within our borders more serious perhaps than in any other country in the EEC. The setting up of that agency explains a good deal of time spent by the previous Government in preparation for employment.

Another body which came directly within my own departmental responsibility was the National Enterprise Agency. I was very anxious to ensure that fullest consultation would take place with as many people as possible in industry. The original idea belonged to the party of which I am leader. We realised this necessity to provide a public venture capital agency and that its operation as such would involve a supervisory role in the State sector. I was anxious for a good reception for this idea and these proposals within Irish industry. I was anxious to explain also to those within industry who were lukewarm about the idea that this concept of ours would assist in extending realistic employment for our people. Therefore, we saw the National Development Corporation as a venture capital development agency which would put particular emphasis on new growth sectors which had not been as successful as they might have been through shortage of equity funding. I also saw the NDC as having an important supervisory role in relation to the commercial aspects of State enterprises. With the nine State companies that we added to the responsibility of the NDC we were concerned to ensure that these companies would be as efficient as possible and that their contribution to the national economy would be seen to be a major one. We thought that such a grouping of companies in the energy area, the ESB, the National Petroleum Corporation, Chemicí Teo and Bord na Móna, would form a very good nucleus of a new growth in the State sector itself. Who, looking at the performance in the State sector, would deny that there is need for new development there, for a new lease of life? We concede that the companies under the aegis of the NDC would be made more efficient and make a better contribution to the economy.

This is not a contest between the National Enterprise Agency and the National Development Corporation. It is not simply a matter of saying that our proposal is better than yours for the sake of novelty. It was our considered opinion, looking at the problems of our economy, that there was a need for the National Development Corporation.

We have given what is regarded throughout the world as a generous and attractive manufacturing incentive package. We have given State grants and tax reliefs in excess of £1 billion during the past ten years, yet the level of new employment creation in manufacturing industry during that period barely kept pace with job losses. This has very serious long-term implications for employment creation. This is an inescapable fact.

It is true that over the years a number of State enterprises established a wide range of industrial and commercial activities which made a vital contribution to our economy but during the same period many Irish firms did not expand as they should have into international traded activities. Instead they had gone into non-traded activities at home and investments of a like character abroad rather than into Irish-based internationally traded activities. We believed that a new approach was required, firstly to deal with the long-term task of substantially increasing employment in productive areas. Secondly, we believed that commerical State enterprises, if they were to provide a worthwhile contribution and return on the large amounts contributed through public funds, needed welding together into more effective co-ordination. We believed also that in tackling the long-term aspects of unemployment a new method of channelling State investment into the private sector was required. Above all, we believed there was a need to break down the artificial barrier between State and private enterprise. There was a hard commercial reason and a vital national necessity behind the setting up of the National Development Corporation.

It would be childish to suggest that we knocked aside the NEA simply because it was not of our making. Successive Governments have not had any confidence in the contribution of the National Enterprise Agency. Documents make that clear but I will say no more about it.

I might say a lot more about it.

The £5 million given this year to the NEA is inadequate.

The Deputy knows little about starting off new projects.

It is simply a means of siphoning off some money into certain private firms which are in difficulties. We had provided £20 million for the National Development Corporation in their first year of operation. The capital of £200 million and the borrowing capability made it a body entirely different from the NEA. There is no comparison between a small salvage operation for certain private firms and a large grouping with an objective purpose for its existence. There is a precedent in other countries for such an effort by the State.

I predict that this Government or any succeeding governments will recognise in time the necessity for the National Development Corporation. There is a need for a national investment agency of this kind and it should be connected with State companies to ensure that those companies make the best contribution and that the corporation is tied institutionally to such companies. I speak of the National Development Corporation in the present tense because I do not regard the idea as having been put aside and I believe we will be coming back to this body once more. I believe that officials will be working energetically on the implementation of the work of this body and it remains my objective to get the National Development Corporation into operation.

The Deputy must not have been listening to me.

It constitutes a serious effort at tackling unemployment in the long term. We require this kind of agency for work in the advanced technology area and in that vast part of our economy in which we are seeing import substitution. We require it because there are projects which are not being taken up and we must ensure that vital productive projects in either the State or the private sector are not inhibited or constrained by inadequate equity funding. We require a longer period for risk capital than our banking system at present allows. In the food processing area there is probably scope for more expansion than is allowed by the banking system, and the National Development Corporation would give the necessary seed capital for that kind of investment. That was one of the points made by the IDA in their remarks on the NDC. Its primary task was to act as a venture capital vehicle, together with an advisory and supervisory role in relation to commercial State enterprises.

A similar need was recognised in other European countries and similar bodies were established to provide development and venture capital on a larger scale than that envisaged by us, but there was no ceiling to the capital that would have been provided for this agency in the years ahead. These other bodies abroad have larger capital and have been longer in existence. I consider that the £20 million operational capital provided in 1982 was quite adequate. Such bodies in other countries have played an important and successful role in industrial and economic development.

I wanted to avoid the fate of many State agencies who have simply been assigned the role of bailing out major loss-making enterprises, either in the public or private sector. That was a temptation to be resisted. Ministers in the industrial area are at times under pressure to commit public money to enterprises on unfair terms and there is a temptation at times to make such decisions, yet in the long-term interest of employment in an area it may be necessary to hold out for a different kind of partnership. The National Development Corporation would not have confined their attention solely to the State sector but would have concentrated also on moving into new areas of private development either on a joint venture basis or by moving themselves into major holding. They would have invested funds in private commercial enterprises or set up joint State-private enterprise commercial organisations. They could have held the shares of commercial manufacturing and trading semi-State bodies coming under their aegis. In regard to the State bodies under their control they would have the important function of co-ordinating the development strategies for those State-sponsored bodies. The necessity for starting up the development corporation was our failure over any given period to contrast between the large grants given and the fact that unemployment had risen. Job loss had exceeded job creation even against the attractive background of such grants.

The funding and the objectives of the development corporation would not have involved us in any conflict with EEC regulations. It would not have involved any conflict either with the grant-giving function of the IDA. The IDA in certain instances have given some equity funding but I believed it was more appropriate that a body which would concentrate on this would do so exclusively. The IDA are ideally suited to become the specialised State agency for assessing the appropriateness of State equity participation in any firm.

We have had our successes and failures with our State bodies. Some of them at the moment give every appearance of needing a new lease of life. Some of them face difficulties which are not of their making but others require a new sense of direction. I hope I will not be accused of making too large a claim for the development corporation when I say that I look forward to the very real possibility of the development corporation giving that new sense of direction to the State bodies. We may forgive the Minister's exuberance but we must answer the point he made about the need to restore confidence as though this was a catchphrase to banish the gloom.

The gloom and doom.

If talk were a means of ridding us of the problems which at present face our economy we would be one of the first economies in Europe, perhaps in the world, where this happened. The Minister spoke about the need to get rid of verbalisers. I do not know if he was talking about himself but he is no bad performer when it comes to verbalising.

We face very difficult problems especially in the unemployment area. I do not believe we gain respect for our case by pretending the problems do not exist or attempting by any statement to diminish the problems. We face an enormous task. We have a growing young population with high expectations, a very serious unemployment problem, an economy which is saddled with the various mistakes which have been made in public financing. There is nothing substantially wrong with our economy in its productive areas. The great difficulty we face in that regard is a legacy of the various errors which have been made in public finance and that continues with the present administration.

When we looked at this problem we decided we should tackle the short-term aspects of unemployment and set up the Youth Employment Agency. Under the long-term aspects we considered that the establishment of the National Development Corporation was a sensible and responsible step. There remained, however, the task of tackling the budgetary problems and the constraints imposed by budgetary difficulties on our national economic advance. We were engaged in that work when we were defeated. The problems and the difficulties we faced up to remain with this Government. No matter how many happy speeches are made those problems remain. I have sufficient confidence and trust in the sense of our people to believe that they will not be discouraged by a Minister of this or any Government talking about the difficulties which must be faced. I believe they respect people who face up to problems, talk in an unvarnished way about the scale of the problems and say what must be done. We spoke of the difficulties before us and we spoke of the steps we were taking to deal with them.

During my short term of office in Industry and Energy a good deal of my time was taken up in discussions at individual firm level where we tackled some of the problems of unemployment, which are often dealt with under their macro as well as under their micro aspects. This is a very difficult problem when one has to face individual employees who are facing close-downs because of mistakes which have no origin with the employees but are there because of management errors stretching back over two or three years. There are such problems in Galway and in Kilkenny.

The IDA have recently been talking about a number of those problems throughout the country. I am sure the Minister realises that he faces many problems of this kind. I did not shrink from meeting the representatives of such firms and I hope the Minister will continue that tradition. As he meets the representatives of various firms throughout the country he will begin to realise the scale of the problem that we face, the fact that there is not a good match between job creation and the kind of financial incentives we have given. He must seek new policy initiatives to deal with this difficult situation. It simply will not be a case of going to one part of the country and making a happy speech. It will be more important for him to outline in sober truth the difficulties facing firms and also to do something to combat them.

Our unemployment problem will not disappear overnight. I do not believe anybody expects miracles. We do not expect cliches either. We must be charitable of the efforts of Governments who are attempting to tackle those problems. We would be cynical in this Parliament if we pretended the difficulties we face are not serious. We do not require long hours of policy consideration to know what is the best thing to do. When we talk about deficits it is not simply a question of boring old financial problems or difficulties dreamed up by economists, who are not a very popular breed with some members of the Government. They are, however, a necessary breed who talk soberly about some of the difficulties we face. A lot of my time was taken up in efforts to retain jobs in localities and firms as well as listening to chronicles of innocent employees who recounted tales of management error which had led to the present impasse. In other cases it was nobody's fault because the market had just disappeared and there was unemployment in a particular area.

I want to pay a compliment to Fóir Teoranta, a businesslike State agency facing a very unwelcome task, performing it as well as they can. I found Fóir Teoranta, extremely professional and hardworking and I found the IDA doing their utmost against great odds to get more of the investment required from the USA. Any IDA representative can tell us that in the USA at the moment, because of their recession, we face great difficulties in getting the necessary investment. The prospective investor naturally asks: "What is the inflation rate in your State? What are your plans for dealing with it?" I do not know what the Minister will say to any audience on the west coast or the east coast of the USA when he explains the various items of the budget.

Debate adjourned.
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