asked the Minister for the Environment if he intends to reconstitute the Constituency Boundary Commission; if so, when; and its proposed terms of reference.
17.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Electoral Commission.
16.
asked the Minister for the Environment when he proposes to appoint an electoral commission to review the present Dáil constituencies.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 16 and 17 together.
The position will be considered when the detailed results of the 1981 census are published.
Will the Minister indicate whether, when these results are available, the personnel of the commission will be identical with those already announced by the previous Government and if the terms of reference announced in relation to that commission will be the same?
On the publication of the census figure, which I am informed in reply to inquiries will be ready sometime in July, the Government will consider the position in relation to the Dáil constituencies, including any necessity for a revision, the establishment of a commission and the terms of reference for a commission. It would be inappropriate at this stage to anticipate the Government's decision on any of these matters. However, the Deputy has referred to the commission which was purported to have been established by the outgoing administration. That happened after the general election. The commission at the time would have had no figures to work on except provisional figures for the larger administrative areas which had nothing to do with the district electoral divisions. The commission had not actually been appointed. Certain persons had been asked if they would be prepared to serve on a commission. The only thing for the Government to do was to scrap the attempt and examine it properly at the appropriate time.
Do I take it from the Minister's reply that at this moment he is indicating that there will be alterations in the terms of reference laid down by the previous Government which consisted simply of saying that existing constituencies should be altered as little as possible? That is the kernel of the terms of reference of the previous commission. Is the Minister indicating now a departure from those criteria?
I am not indicating one way or the other. All I am saying is that when the Government have the figures before them they will make a considered decision unlike the rushed decision which was taken after the defeat of the previous administration. I put it on the record that it was Fianna Fáil who established the principle of an independent commission to draw up constituency boundaries for both the Dáil elections and the European Assembly elections and on both occasions accepted the recommendations of the commission without any change whatsoever.
(Interruptions.)
I am quite prepared to give due credit to the previous Fianna Fáil administration for setting up such a commission.
A question, Deputy.
Are the present administration prepared to honour it?
I have already said that the position with regard to the necessity for revision if it arises, the establishment of the commission and the terms of reference for the commission will be considered at the appropriate time when the statistical information is available.
With due respect to Deputy L'Estrange, is the Minister suggesting that some kind of geographical change in the distribution of people since the census of 1979 should somehow or other alter in any way the terms of reference which the previous Fianna Fáil administration established?
I have already answered the question.
This affects perhaps all of us, a Cheann Comhairle, with the exception of yourself. Is the Minister suggesting that there has been some dramatic shift in the population of this country so that the terms of reference previously established by a Fianna Fáil administration can no longer be adhered to? If he will recall, they were very broad.
I am not suggesting that. The only figures available at the moment are provisional figures, and I stress the word "provisional". They relate only to the larger administrative divisions and not to the constituencies or the district electoral divisions which are essential for the delineation of constituencies.
That is not true.
I am not saying that the situation has changed. All I am saying, in the light of the information available to the Government, is that we are not making a decision until the full information is available to us. Then the Government will look at the necessity for a revision, the establishment of a commission and the terms of reference for a commission. I remind the House that the Taoiseach has indicated that the Government will establish a non-statutory electoral commission when we know the situation.
Is the Minister aware that Fianna Fáil cumainn have been asked to make suggestions as to how the constituencies can best be revised in the interests of Fianna Fáil? Does that mean that we will have another gerrymander? Does the Minister agree that the scrapping of this commission shows the contempt that the present Taoiseach has for the honesty, integrity and, above all, fair play of Deputy Jack Lynch when he set up that commission?
The commission of Deputy Jimmy Tully rebounded on the parties opposite in 1977. I have no information of the type the Deputy is talking about. As I have indicated already, the Government will make a decision when the information is available.
(Interruptions.)
I know this is dear to all your hearts, but we must get on to the next question.
In view of the allegation made by Deputy L'Estrange, who does not usually make such wild allegations——
That is quite true.
(Interruptions.)
— if evidence to that effect was produced to the Minister, would he be prepared to discuss this matter, to deny it or to countermand the order?
I have already said that I have no knowledge whatsoever of any such instructions. I have said to the House that the Government will consider the situation when the final figures are available to them. Only provisional figures are available at the moment. They will consider the situation, the necessity for revision, the establishment of a commission, and the terms of reference for a commission. I refer Deputies, as I have done already, to the statement of the Taoiseach on 12 March as reported in The Irish Times of 13 March where he said that the Government will establish a non-statutory commission.
A final supplementary.
I would like reassurance on one part of the Minister's reply in relation to the terms of reference for the commission. Would the Minister agree with me that it is difficult to see how there could be any question of change in those terms of reference, taking into consideration the short length of time since the previous commission? The Minister is a member of a cabinet who, to give them their due, have engaged in rather full consultation with various members of the House. In the event that the Minister sees that the terms of reference need reconsideration, will he undertake to discuss with the many Deputies on all sides in the House with whom the Government have had previous discussions any alteration in the terms of reference to get agreement?
The Government will make their decision when the information is available to them, unlike the previous Government who, having lost their mandate, rushed through to try to set up some form of commission. They purported to set up a constituency commission.
You lost your mandate.
(Dún Laoghaire): Arising out of the Minister's reply, surely it is not unreasonable to ask a straight question. Is it intended to reconstitute the constituency boundaries commission? It has nothing to do with the shift in population.
That has been asked.
I have already said that we will make this decision when the information is available to us. As I have already indicated, the Taoiseach said that there will be a commission.
The Minister did not say that.
Will the Minister give consideration to this? In case there should be a change in the terms of reference will he give to the house an indication of his openness to the idea of consultation with Deputies in the House?
As I have said, it is a matter for the Government to make this decision and the Government will decide.