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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Jun 1982

Vol. 337 No. 2

Private Members' Business. - Kilkenny Factory: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Pattison on Tuesday, 29 June 1982:
"That Dáil Éireann calls on the Government to instruct the IDA to participate in a joint venture with interested parties including existing management and workers, on a majority equity basis if necessary, to reopen the Fieldcrest factory, Kilkenny, now in receivership and secure the maximum level of employment consistent with long-term viability."
Debate resumed on the amendment No. a. 1:
To delete all words after "That" and substitute:
"the Government commit itself to the continuation of the Fieldcrest plant as a textile plant in order to safeguard its huge investment and that the IDA be instructed to commit itself to this end with a view to creating maximum employment in the shortest possible time through any arrangement and furthermore Dáil Éireann calls on the Government to set up an inquiry into the establishment and subsequent collapse of the plant at Kilkenny with special emphasis on all the financial arrangements involved."
—(Deputy Gallagher,Waterford).

When the debate was adjourned last night I was dealing with the viability of the Fieldcrest plant. I was speaking about the marketing situation. While we believe that the plant is viable and should be continued, I should like to point out some of the problems which arose in the development of the plant particularly in regard to marketing. I refer to statements made by the president of Fieldcrest America in 1977. That was over three years before the plant came on stream. He said they were developing a European market and expected to take a significant share of it when the factory came on stream. That was very good news. We felt there were experts coming in who were not waiting until the factory was in production to find markets. The scene changed in 1979 and in an interview with Textile World the president stated that the Fieldcrest marketing men were not too deep in Europe but were only approaching the threshold. This was very disappointing. In an article in Business and Finance on 18 March 1982 the same president said that they were changing from a totally domestic company to one which would be international. Now he said they had an international point of view. They were beginning to look outwards and would have to look abroad.

In June 1979 £30 million, that is 90 per cent of the money, was committed to the plant. This shows the makeshift approach to marketing and procurement of markets for the plant. To add to these difficulties, we had a situation where there were incorrect towel sizes. People might say a towel is a towel. With any article one markets one must have the right product. Size and style is important as is colour and this is where the marketing end failed. It was a recipe for disaster. Sales were on an agency basis. There was no follow through by the Kilkenny plant. It was operated from America by a London-based sales agent. Markets could not have been established with that kind of approach to selling the produce of one of our biggest plants.

As a result I agree with The Workers' Party amendment that there should be an inquiry into why the American people were given 51 per cent of the equity of the company for £2 million. Carrolls of Ireland had an investment of £8½ million and I am sure the Bank of Ireland had the same commitment. The IDA had £12 million. Yet these people were let in for £2 million and they walked away and left it to us. I hope this will be reported to the Minister. It is unfortunate that he is not here to hear it.

He will be back in five minutes. He was here last night.

This is an important matter for the Kilkenny people. I am disappointed that the Minister is not here. He is not here to hear me.

He is well represented.

Through PAYE and social welfare contributions the people who work there paid £100,000 per month. Now the State is paying them £250,000. That amount of money would be sufficient to continue the company in operation. The Minister may say the company lost £10 million. I pointed out last night that most of this was lost when setting up the plant. The plant cannot be sold at present but this is because we are in a recessionary period. Would anybody want to buy a plant in such a time? It is only natural that they would wait until the climate changed and there was a possibility of making a profit. We all know that the IDA did their best to find a customer for the plant and we give them credit for that. They launched a big worldwide operation to try to sell the plant but they have been unsuccessful to date.

It is important to keep the plant open. The Minister went to America recently. It is my information that there are not too many companies coming to locate here. It is also significant that the Taoiseach in a statement on Today Tonight on Friday night said that where there was any hope of keeping an existing plant working it should be kept in operation and that we should not be going out and bringing in further new companies and going into a green field situation. As a result, Kilkenny Corporation hope to meet the Taoiseach in the next few days and point out to him that we have a plant which could be made viable and profitable.

I was disappointed to hear that it was the Minister's opinion that he would be throwing good money after bad if he were to keep the company open. That is not what the people in Kilkenny think. It is not what the workers in Fieldcrest think. We are disappointed that this is the Minister's attitude. Government agencies announce new projects with perhaps 50 jobs with a fanfare of trumpets. Here we have 650 jobs at stake and many more in services in Kilkenny and there is nothing about them. We have the best workers. There were no disputes in the factory. They reached 60 per cent capacity in production. About 85 per cent would have made it profitable. This was in relation to a quality towel. There are other products which the company could make to make up the other 25 per cent.

The McKinsey Report states that this company could be profitable in 1983 if certain courses were taken. In 1984 it would make a profit of £1.6 million and in 1985 £2.3 million. They have confidence in the company. This company began to trade in a recessionary period. It has never traded out of a recession. The market for textiles as well as for most other products is on the floor. Can we not give this company a chance to trade in a reasonable market and, as a result, show that it is viable?

Money has been provided by the Government for Clondalkin, Scarriff, Ardmore Studios, Talbot and so on. A Bill was put through the House yesterday afternoon dealing with Irish Steel Holdings. There are 500 people working there not 630 as there are in Kilkenny.

The company, which was modernised at a cost to the Exchequer of £80 million, lost in the year June 1981 a total of £26.3 million while the anticipated loss to the end of June 1982 is £22.8 million. A fraction of that is all that would be necessary to maintain employment for the 630 people we are talking of. That is why we are asking the Minister to take action in this case. Irish Steel Holdings are not expected to be profitable before 1986 or 1987. The Minister has told us that the steel market is poor and that prospects for the company are precarious. Having regard to this sort of situation, one can only conclude that there is much discrimination in so far as Kilkenny is concerned.

I am calling on the Minister to visit the Fieldcrest factory and to see for himself what the situation really is. I am confident that if he does so he will make up his mind to make available to the receiver the finance necessary to keep the company in operation until such time as arrangements can be made to keep it open on a long-term basis. We are not supporting The Workers' Party amendment. It is not specific enough whereas the Labour Party motion and our amendment are specific in asking the Minister to open this factory in 1982. I might add that voting either for or against the amendment will not be the cause of a general election but if the motion is carried it will give heart to the workers involved, to the people in the service industries there and to people of the surrounding counties also. I will be very disappointed if Kilkenny is discriminated against. This is the first Government-promoted factory ever to be located in Kilkenny and it would be a scandal if it were to be allowed to die at this stage. I am disappointed that the Minister has not been present during my contribution.

Both the motion before the House and the amendments to it spell out the same message, that is, showing our concern for the 630 people whose jobs have been lost at Fieldcrest and asking that those jobs be replaced either in the Fieldcrest operation as we know it or by way of an alternative industry. There is a call in one of the amendments for an inquiry into the whole operation of the plant from the time it was opened until it closed down. Our first concern must be for the 630 workers involved. The despair among the people in Kilkenny can be readily recognised. There is distress and hardship on the part of the workers concerned, many of whom left secure employment to live in Kilkenny and build their future around the Fieldcrest operation. Who would blame them for having done that when one of the companies in that partnership were one of the leading firms in the US together with the banks and Carrolls, who are one of the leading companies in this country? Indeed, Fieldcrest, Kilkenny, could be described as the Rolls Royce of Irish industry but now it could probably be compared to an old Morris Minor. The reality of the situation was brought home to us when the receiver announced that the factory was closing.

Many of the workers had come back to Kilkenney and bought houses there. Their situation now in terms of the loans and mortgages to which they are committed is intolerable. It was very sad to hear that immediately after the factory closed the banks informed those employees who had availed of special loans that the interest rates were to be increased immediately. For people facing the dole queue that was very bad news. There were many others, too, who had committed substantial amounts on foot of the setting up of that factory. For example, local traders had expanded their businesses in order to gear themselves to what they expected to be boom trading years, but how quickly that dream has failed. Even the local authorities spent huge amounts on the provision of services to facilitate the Fieldcrest operation by way of ensuring that the best possible services were available.

The big question we must ask is why the project failed. There was an excellent work force there and during the period of the factory's operation, only half an hour was lost by way of industrial disputes. That is an impeccable record and one that any company would be proud of. The average age of the workers was 24 so that what we are talking of is a young skilled work force that would be the envy of any company.

We know that the management and marketing organisation of the company were deficient. The marketing was undertaken from a London-based office without any communication with Kilkenny and reporting directly to the US. We know also that the question of design and taste was not taken into consideration. But, leaving aside all that, we must ask why the company were allowed to continue without any question being asked while bit by bit the operation was being run down.

Another question we must ask is why Fieldcrest with an investment of £2 million were able to take 50 per cent of the shares in the company. The banks held an additional 25 per cent while the remainder was held by Carrolls. The IDA invested £10.6 million in the plant and there was an additional £1 million spent on training. Yet the IDA had no say in the running of the company. That sort of situation is far from desirable. While I do not think there should be any post mortem or witchhunt at this stage, there is a lesson to be learned from what has happened. Whoever made the decisions in regard to this plant initially probably did so in good faith. However when I learned recently that final approval for the project was issued one week before the 1977 General Election, I wondered whether this was indicative of many of the decisions made at that time in relation to this operation. We were told then that there were potentially 1,200 jobs involved and that that target would be reached within a certain number of years. A short two years later there is no job there. Whoever made the original projection was very far out.

In terms of employment, the Fieldcrest operation absorbed 30 per cent of the total work force in Kilkenny city. Therefore, one can imagine the effect that the closure has had on the area. One can add this to the many other closures that have occurred in Kilkenny in recent times — Quigley Magnesite, another American company who decided to pull out and the many small engineering works which were flourishing at one stage but which also have gone. In addition there is the stoppage at Castlecomer mills. As a result of all of this, the situation in the area is very bleak. I call on the Minister to make a decision that Kilkenny be declared a disaster area. In view of what has happened over the last two years, particularly the closure of Fieldcrest, special consideration should be given to the Kilkenny area.

Should this factory ever have been put in Kilkenny? We were told a few years ago that this was certainly a viable operation and now we are told that it is not. Fieldcrest Kilkenny never got a proper opportunity. They started in a recession. They should have had some special concession to ensure that they would ride over rough times and get to a profit-making position which they did not expect to attain until 1984. A few months ago a restructured package was drawn up between the various partners in which they decided that they would invest £28 million and part of that investment would be £8 million from the State in the way of grants. Taking into consideration that £8 million which was agreed on, the loss of PAYE and PRSI which I understand amounts to about £5 million per annum and the payment of social welfare that would have to be made to these workers, we are talking about £15 million alone. This £15 million could be put to better use in the Fieldcrest factory than being paid out in social welfare. The workers of Fieldcrest do not want social welfare. They want work, and we are appealing that they will get that work through whatever means are available. I ask the Minister to ensure that work is made available to the people of Fieldcrest.

Recently I was informed reliably that Fieldcrest America are now looking for the European market which was there for Fieldcrest Kilkenny. If Fieldcrest Kilkenny try to prevent them breaking into this market they will be put into liquidation immediately. The only hindrance to Fieldcrest America getting that European market which was dearly fought for is that they must pay 16 per cent duty. Fieldcrest America by spending £2 million in Fieldcrest Kilkenny have succeeded in breaking into the European market. It is a sad day in Kilkenny or any place in Ireland when we can be used by an American company to break into the European or any other market. Our Government should take this to the attention of the EEC to ensure that this type of operation will not continue, because we are nothing but pawns in a chess game at this rate.

This is not a time for a post mortem. All Members who have taken part in this debate have indicated that their prime interest in opening the factory either as it exists or by any other means whatsoever is to ensure that those 630 jobs are recreated for the people in Kilkenny. We must learn from our mistakes, and we must look into the whole operation of huge investments into companies and we must get better guarantees than two years' operation here in Ireland, because that is all we have got out of Fieldcrest America. When Fieldcrest came to Kilkenny we had not a very bad unemployment situation. We imported the problem that we have in Kilkenny now. We could have done without Fieldcrest had we known what was to happen. We would have been much better off if Fieldcrest had never come to Kilkenny. It is easy to say that now, but that is the situation. We have imported the problems, we have mass unemployment in our city. Our traders, shopkeepers and various other people are suffering because of what has happened. It is time that this sort of what I call shady operation came to a halt. Many very successful companies have come in here and have done a good deal for the Irish people and the employment situation in general, but one can become very suspicious when one sees how this whole operation came about and how it ended. Some lesson must be learned from it.

When the Minister is replying I hope he will tell us the exact position with regard to Fieldcrest Kilkenny. Have the company definitely gone? Will they open again? What progress has been made? These questions must be answered in the interests of the people of Kilkenny and county as a whole. Is the plant viable? Was it viable two years ago? If it is not viable now how was it viable two years ago? Can it be made viable? Would that mean new plant and machinery? How can we tackle this to make sure the people return to work? It was boasted that this was one of the most modern factories in the world; we had the best work force in the world, yet it all came to nothing. Fieldcrest Kilkenny are no longer in operation. Masses of people are on the dole queues. What does the future hold for those people? The people in Kilkenny are very tolerant. I hope the Minister will realise that and will give Fieldcrest Kilkenny the attention they merit to ensure that the people there are returned to work. They do not want dole, they want sound jobs and are prepared to work at those jobs.

I hope the Minister will be able to answer the questions I have posed and that the fact that we have had this debate here will ensure that it will not be too long before the wheels are turning in Fieldcrest Kilkenny either with the operation as it was or with a new partner or group of partners. We do not mind how it comes about provided the work is supplied for the people.

Tonight I feel even more saddened than I did when here on 9 June last I made an appeal to the Minister to bring pressure to bear on the Government to keep this plant in operation for some time at least in order to give an opportunity to try to get a purchaser. Unfortunately, that pressure if it was there was not successful, and tonight my concern is for the workers who now are idle and not alone in the city and county of Kilkenny but in the adjoining counties also. These people in all good faith went into Fieldcrest a little over two years ago. I was at the official opening and I looked then on the future of that company as one of the greatest that anyone could imagine for a company in this country. They were being funded and backed by people for whom I had over the years the greatest regard, the IDA. The Bank of Ireland, who are not in the habit of going into ventures such as this, and Carrolls were prepared also to invest in Fieldcrest Ireland Ltd. My thoughts were shared by the many people who left other employment, came back to Kilkenny and took up positions in this mill because they wanted to live among their own people.

It was my impression that this company never got a chance. For a Government to allow the doors to be closed on a factory which had been in operation for only two years was very wrong. These people working in Fieldcrest had made their homes locally and looked forward to full employment for the rest of their lives. I am still waiting for an answer about what went wrong. It was not the fault of the workers. The people in Fieldcrest are convinced, as I am, that this is a viable operation.

I cannot imagine how any Government could allow this factory to close. To create such unemployment was wrong. We must look at what this unemployment will cost the Department of Social Welfare — I believe it will cost in the region of £240,000 per week. There was investment by the IDA, Carrolls, The Bank of Ireland, and Fieldcrest; capital investment of only £2.5 million got them 51 per cent of the equity in the company. We welcome foreign industrialists but is it right that at a time of recession they should be allowed to walk out and leave 630 people unemployed without any future prospects, unless the factory is reopened?

I was on a number of deputations that ment the Minister and hoped a buyer would be found for this plant and we all shared that hope up to the time the factory doors closed. As I said on numerous occasions, it is easier to get a buyer for a factory in production than for a factory which is closed. I hope it is still possible to get this factory back into operation. I appeal to the Minister to use his influence to get the wheels in motion and to get these 630 people who have nothing but unemployment facing them back to work. That can be done if enough pressure is exerted. I am not speaking of political pressure because during this debate each representative from my constituency, of various political views, expressed concern. We do not consider it an excuse to be told by the Government that they do not have the money to keep this factory going. They were supposed to have the money for the Clondalkin Paper Mills, the Talbot motor works and the inner city.

My colleague, Deputy Crotty, mentioned that this was the first factory ever established in Kilkenny by the State. Let it not be said that this factory closed because the Government refused to reopen it and to give employment. We mouth pious platitudes and talk about youth employment which, I believe, is a plank in the manifesto of the present administration, and tonight we heard that the average age of the workers in that factory was 24 years. Everything must be done, and will be done, to ensure that they get a chance to earn their living in this Kilkenny factory.

I would like to pay a tribute to everyone concerned with Fieldcrest, the workers and those who accompanied me on deputations, for the orderly way they conducted their negotiations at a time of uncertainty and hardship. I believe the Minister is sympathetic because he gave the deputations the impression he would do what he could. I do not doubt that but saying he will do his best is not good enough. I and my colleagues want action on this matter. On behalf of the people in my constituency and in the adjoining counties, I ask the Government to come to the rescue and to give back their jobs to the 630 workers of Fieldcrest. As things stand these people have nothing to look forward to in the future. I appeal to the Minister to put pressure on the Government to reopen the factory.

I share the same concern for the young skilled workforce of Fieldcrest. As a result of the failure of the plant and of a decision by the promoters to put in a receiver who closed the plant — it was not the Government who closed it — I accept that the livelihood of many people was affected and I share the concern of other Deputies for the social and financial problems with which these people have to cope.

The Deputy spoke about sincerity and reality. Politicians in this House should be sincere in the way they approach this type of situation. We should tell the people what is the real position. We should not create expectations that cannot be lived up to, because that would be unfair. For Deputies to think that bringing in a notice of motion here is the answer to the situation at Fieldcrest is unrealistic. These people are not living in the real world and they are not facing up to their responsibilities as Members of this House. At the moment the work force believe certain information that is being disseminated but which is not based on fact.

May God forgive the Minister.

I did not interrupt anyone in the debate and I want the same opportunity to set the record straight. I ask the Deputy to be quiet.

I want to tell the Minister——

I did not interrupt anybody in the debate. Will Deputies listen to what I have to say?

The Minister was not here to listen to me.

I listened to the debate yesterday. The snide remarks made when I had to leave the House for a short time were unbecoming to the Deputy. I do not think they were meant but were probably uttered in the heat of the debate. However, I will leave it at that.

I was here as a responsible representative of the people in Kilkenny. The Minister was not present——

I was here when the debate on the motion started. I was called out for a few minutes.

I spoke for 12 minutes and the Minister was not here.

It shows up the political hypocrisy of the whole operation last night and today.

The Minister has no interest in the matter.

Before I deal with the question of the Fieldcrest plant itself, and I can assure the House that I will deal very fully with the matter, once again I will place information before the House in relation to the events surrounding the closure which will demonstrate that many of the suggestions put earlier were ill-conceived and based on inaccurate information.

However, the motion before the House and the amendment which has been moved, if adopted, would represent a fundamental and far-reaching shift in the policy of successive Governments towards industrial development. I would not be surprised if this were not realised but I must make it clear to all Members of the House, and they must be fully aware of the consequences when voting on this matter, that neither the Government nor the Minister for Industry and Energy is legally in a position to instruct the Industrial Development authority to make finances in any form available to any particular company.

What about Talbot Motors?

For experienced politicians to try to create a situation in the outside world that is different is fooling themselves and I do not think they are easily fooled. That is the reality and the Deputies know that as well as I do. If the situation needs to be changed there is a way of changing it. However, I am sure if it were changed Members opposite would be the first to point the finger at any Minister and complain about political interference with regard to giving grants, that is not the way we do our business and I am sure it is not the way Deputies opposite would want to do business.

The IDA were established by the Oireachtas as an autonomous agency and have functioned as such an agency with the agreement of the Houses of the Oireachtas for over 30 years. Acceptance of the motion before the House would undermine the functions of the IDA which have been carefully entrusted to them and would lead to the undermining of the confidence and trust placed in the authority.

A Private Members' motion is not the vehicle by which a major change in industrial development strategy is brought about. As the House is aware, a major review of industrial policy is underway at present and I am committed to the publication later this year of a White Paper on the subject of industrial development strategies to be pursued to the end of the decade. This publication will present the appropriate opportunity for the house to express its view on present policies, on any shortcomings which it feels exist and to put forward proposals for improvement.

It is in such a context that industrial policy generally should be discussed, not in the context of a Private Members' motion relating to one firm only. I might mention here that the competence and ability of the IDA are the envy of most other countries and they have been recognised as the most successful and professional development authority in the world. Acceptance of the motion by the House, undermining the authority's autonomy, would at least dent their image if not damage it irreparably.

The Fieldcrest towelling operation in Kilkenny has been the subject of much public discussion and indeed was discussed at length here not only last night but on 9 June. Given the importance of the issue and the amount of attention which the subject has received, I welcome this opportunity of setting the record straight in relation to this project. I think it important that I should outline the history of the project up to the time of its closure, before dealing with the present situation.

The first proposal which came before the Government in July 1975 was for the establishment of a towel manufacturing plant in Kilkenny with Fieldcrest the only promoter of the project. That package which was approved by the Government involved direct investment by Fieldcrest and grant assistance from the IDA. Following this approval, the board of Fieldcrest reviewed the project and requested a revision of some of the elements of the project in the light of the continuing economic markets, the rate of inflation in cial markets, the rate of inflation in Ireland and de facto sterling devaluation vis à vis the US dollar.

Following subsequent negotiations between the IDA and the promoters, the Government approved a revised package in January 1976. In August 1976 Fieldcrest were of the view that the project could not proceed without a joint venture partner. Fieldcrest and the IDA then conducted a search for a suitable partner because it was clear that failure to find such a partner would lead to the project having to be postponed indefinitely. P. J. Carroll & Company Limited and the Bank of Ireland decided, subject to the approval by the Government of a revised grant package, to participate with Fieldcrest in the Kilkenny venture. This decision was taken after detailed technical, financial and marketing studies, commissioned by the Irish partners, had confirmed previous research by Fieldcrest that the project was a viable one. Thus in May 1977 the Government approved a new package now involving Fieldcrest, the Bank of Ireland and Carrolls as promoters. The total investment in the Fieldcrest project was £25 million by the bankers as loans, £16 million approximately in equity from the promoters and £11 million by the State through the IDA. The State thus contributed about 20 per cent of the total investment. These are the actual figures which speak for themselves. For Deputies to contend that the promoters' contribution was negligible is clearly not supported by the facts. It is a matter for the promoters when putting a product to the IDA Authority to decide between themselves in what way the shareholdings are to be distributed. That is a decision for the promoters when they are making any proposition and it is not unusual in this or any other case. I think it is useful here to remind ourselves what the intentions of the promoters were. The intention was to establish in Kilkenny a modern facility capable of producing high quality towels which would be sold on the European market. The success of the project would depend on a number of things being right.

The product would have to be of an acceptable standard, output would have to be high enough to justify the very large overhead cost, the price on the European market would have to be both sufficiently competitive to make the prospect of competing with existing producers a realistic one and, at the same time, be sufficiently high to cover the cost of production.

From the time production started there was a number of problems in the Kilkenny operation such as quality control. This in itself is not unusual when a new plant comes onstream. Of more importance was the unexpected and continuing failure to penetrate the European market to the extent necessary to make the Kilkenny operation viable. Fieldcrest's considerable experience and success in the United States market did not translate successfully to the European market. The net result of this was that the company incurred losses of £10 million to September, 1981, losses which now amount to about £14 million. In fact, in the year ended 30 September 1981, they incurred losses of some £6 million on sales of £10 million. These are not my figures, they are audited figures which anyone can inspect. Sales on the European market were indeed being achieved but not to the extent projected originally by the promoters. Moreover, the losses on these sales were quite dramatic. These losses which culminated in the closure of the plant on 11 June 1982 have been attributed to the severe downturn in world markets but there is also evidence that the company's management and marketing organisation was deficient.

There is not doubt that the setting up of a marketing organisation based in London, reporting directly to the United States and not to the manufacturing base in Kilkenny, was a serious deficiency and did not enable the company to penetrate the European market to the extent necessary to make the operation viable. This organisational set-up was a contributory factor in the ultimate collapse of Fieldcrest.

The problems which faced the project were recognised and faced by the promoters. In the course of 1981, consultants were appointed whose recommendations in their preliminary report were, in essence, that a new marketing strategy should be adopted and a comprehensive financial restructuring be undertaken. The restructuring package, which involved substantial additional State assistance together with further contributions from the promoters, was approved by the then Government in December 1981. This financial package was structured to provide that: The Irish partners could ensure that the company strategy and management were geared to the demands of the European market; the restructuring package was based on the assumption that, with the right management and marketing, the company would have been able to achieve the requisite level of sales and make the restructuring pay off; the three partners would contribute in approximate proportion to their present shareholding; the Irish partners, as a result of the timing of their contribution, would bear a higher proportion of the business risk, and would be in effective control of the company; and funds would be injected annually over a three-year period but the parties would be contractually committed to make each investment at a specified date provided previously agreed performance targets were achieved by the company.

At the time of approval of the further financial assistance for the company which as I said was in December 1981 and which I repeat was based on a preliminary report, it was projected that the proposals then put forward would establish the project on a sound financial basis. However, and I would like the House to understand very clearly the following, that particularly because of the market situation, it was recognised by the then Government that the future prospects for the company had still to be categorised as high risk. That background to the Government decision must not be forgotten. Nevertheless, it was confidently expected that all partners in the company would co-operate in the implementation of the proposals. Unfortunately the consultants' final report which came to hand in early February 1982 did not, as expected, confirm the market forecasts and projection as outlined in the preliminary report. This final report, the continuing and deepening of the recession allied to the company's losses caused the American partners, Fieldcrest, to lose confidence in the turn around of the company and they decided to withdraw from the project because the company was insolvent. This culminated in the appointment of a receiver to the company of 9 March 1982, on the day I took office.

(Interruptions.)

I did not interrupt anybody. I will sit around a table and put the facts in front of anybody who is interested. After the appointment of the receiver, both he and my Department, through the offices of the IDA, made intensive efforts to secure a takeover of Fieldcrest as a going concern. I know it hurts when the truth comes out. It hurts because the Opposition are the people who took the responsibility of putting it there and who restructured the package.

The IDA contacted up to 100 companies in the textile sector and, specifically, pinpointed 12 individual companies, who as world leaders in the textile sector, offered the greatest prospects for a take-over of Fieldcrest. Those 12 companies were visited by the IDA and, as a result senior representatives of most of them visited Fieldcrest. Also, at the request of the receiver, a firm of international textile consultants carried out a study of the plant with a view to determining whether its facilities might more profitably be employed diversifying its production facilities into other sectors of the towelling market or into alternative products. As a result of that assignment, the consultants visited a number of companies with a view to interesting them in the plant. However, none of the companies contacted by the IDA made an offer for the plant as a going concern.

There have been a number of inquiries to date from interested parties arising out of the IDA's strong drive to attract a new promoter or combination of promoters. However, none of these has so far translated into offers for the plant as a going concern. Three of these inquiries are being actively pursued by the IDA at present. I must point out here that the IDA in seeking a takeover of the Fieldcrest plant have had an open mind about the type of package which would be involved. I did not give them a narrow brief. The people who are charged with that responsibility know their business and have served this country well. For someone to suggest otherwise is another inaccuracy. The IDA in seeking a take-over of Fieldcrest, had an open mind about the type of package involved and it is not, as has been implied, a case of the IDA seeking a purchaser for Fieldcrest in the same fashion as the receiver. The possibility of IDA involvement in such a project has never been excluded.

The question of Government assistance towards a reopening of Fieldcrest when a viable operation can be put together has never been in doubt and I assure this House and the people of Kilkenny that the Government will never be found wanting when the project can be put properly together. The possibility of IDA involvement has never been excluded and I hope everyone accepts that.

The receiver has no immediate plans to dispose of the assets and his plans in this regard will be contingent on the take-over prospects. I must add that the receiver has made every effort to facilitate the Government's efforts to arrange a takeover. There is no question of this plant being broken up in three weeks' time.

In relation to the future of Fieldcrest, I must put it on record that my information is that if the Fieldcrest plant were to be reasonably profitable it would need: (a) sales of £25 million per annum; (b) a major textile partner with expertise in production and marketing; (c) change in equipment; and (d) a large injection of money. The market has not been there up to now for the quantities of product which would make the plant viable and certain of the companies which visited Kilkenny said that if they were to become involved they would have to consider changing the product by the replacement of existing equipment — looms — which they regarded as unsuitable for their production needs.

The point has been made by some Deputies that if the project in December 1981 was regarded as warranting Government assistance what has changed since then. A number of things, a number of very fundamental things have changed including the final less optimistic report on market prospects by the consultants. Fieldcrest, the United States promoter, withdrew from the project. The Irish partners in the project have also withdrawn.

(Waterford): Will the Minister state who these consultants are?

McKenzies. As long as somebody does not run away with the idea that they prepared one report only. They prepared two reports, a preliminary and a final. I will sit down and debate all the facts I have produced in this House with anybody. Let me come to the question of viability because this is something everybody seems to forget ——

It was said that if these sales ——

I did not interrupt Deputy Crotty. Would he mind letting me finish my contribution.

I want to have the record straight.

I would sit anywhere, in any debating forum the Deputy likes, debate the facts as I have them in front of me and stand over each and every one of them.

Facts must be straight and correct.

You asked what happened since December ——

Might I appeal to the Minister not to address himself to Deputy Crotty. He might address himself to the Chair and I will have to ensure that Deputy Crotty does not interrupt the Minister.

I will not unless the record is not straight.

Even at that — the Deputy had his opportunity. The Minister to proceed without interruption.

The Deputy is only wasting time, he does not want to know the facts of the case at all. There can be no doubt that the placing of the company in receivership, something done by the banks, had an impact on the market for the company's products. That is why the situation is quite different now from that which existed in December 1981.

I should like to turn now and look in detail at what has been happening to the pricing of the company's products, and the Deputy might listen carefully. Prior to closure the company had established a standard cost which assumed an 85 per cent level of production capacity. Such a production level has never been achieved. The company has been producing at approximately 60 per cent capacity level but using the same cost as if production was at the higher, 85 per cent capacity level. As costs have not been reckoned on the basis of actual production, that is at the actual 60 per cent capacity level, the company has been selling well below real cost. Successful marketing, which is required here, is the ability to put the right product into the right market at the right price at the right time. That is something on which everybody is agreed. Unfortunately, Fieldcrest had at least two of those wrong. The product needed to be adapted to European requirements and the price needed to be increased, or output increased and unit prices reduced. Unfortunately, the timing of the Fieldcrest investment was not ideal because of the recession. Unfortunately, also the course of action proposed in Deputy Pattison's motion is not practical. Many companies with extensive experience in towel-making have to date declined to become involved in the Fieldcrest operation even on very favourable terms offered and Deputy Pattison's motion in reality, therefore, calls on the Government via the IDA to take over with the help of existing management and workers the running of a towel manufacturing operation and a sales business. I do not doubt the ability for one moment of the management and workers or their resolve in this matter but it is not the business of the Government or the IDA to become involved in the management of the production of high quality towels and the sale of them in a concentrated European market to the extent required. The scale of potential production in Fieldcrest was vast — amounting to 140 miles of towel per week.

That is the scale of the problem when one talks about making Fieldcrest viable, about the IDA and the Government instituting the marketing organisation to sell that quantity of towels. Profitable disposal of this amount is the marketing task which could have to be faced. Again I must stress the need for a promoter who has the ability and will to penetrate the European market. It is the absence of this factor rather than the absence of Government will or Government financial resources which has meant the closure of Fieldcrest.

The realistic approach is to look at the project as it is, recognising that a market does not exist for the quantity of output which would make the operation viable, as it stands, to try to attract people who will enlarge the product line and establish sustainable employment. This is precisely what the IDA are doing and will continue to do with full Government backing. They are at present discussing possibilities with a number of firms regarding Fieldcrest. I am, and the House now is, fully aware of the extent of the problems. Solutions must be found but the Government cannot be expected to do what companies who are very experienced in the marketing field cannot do. The only sensible course is that being pursued at present by the Government in endeavouring to attract a promoter or a combination of promoters with the requisite skills both in terms of technology and marketing who can ensure that whatever is produced in Kilkenny can be sold in sufficient quantities to guarantee the future of the plant.

I turn now to the question of inquiring into the reasons for the failure of Fieldcrest. As Deputy Pattison has indeed said, I do not want the IDA inhibited in their contact with industrialists, Irish or foreign, by the shadow of witch-hunting. There can be no productive outcome from witch-hunting. However, when there is a failure of the size and importance as Fieldcrest it is useful to see how and why it happened. I am not talking about a public inquiry. An examination should, however, be carried out of the process involved in committing a substantial amount of State funds to the project. It should be established whether the failure could have been reasonably predicted, and if so, why the investment took place. As Minister I must take steps to ensure that any required improvements in the decision-making process in projects such as these are carried out.

It has to be recognised, of course, that any new industrial project carries a risk and some, inevitably, will fail. There is no crystal ball available when decisions like this are being made. The only sure way of avoiding failure is to do nothing. Nevertheless, we must do what we can to minimise the risks of failure. The examination which is proposed in my amendment is just that sort of mechanism. I think it only sensible to learn from failures, whether they be our own or others. An inquiry on the lines suggested by The Workers' Party could have an inhibiting effect on would be investors not alone in Fieldcrest but in industry generally in Ireland and could lead to a loss of additional industrial projects and additional employment.

In summary, what I am saying to the House is simply this, I have demonstrated clearly to the House that this Motion is not the vehicle by which to change industrial policy and strategy. If the House does not accept that I want Members to think clearly before voting on this motion — that they are voting to change and undermine what successive Governments over 30 years have entrusted to the IDA, the autonomy to enable them assess any project. If Members want to short-circuit that by coming into this House and call on any Minister, whoever he may be, to take decisions on such projects, then I would remind them that they are on the slippery slopes. I can tell them also that I know where they will finish up.

In Clondalkin.

I shall turn now to some of the suggestions made. Deputy Pattison said last evening and I quote him:

Neither do I suggest the IDA or the Government should artifically keep Fieldcrest open only to close it again in a few years time. That would be an insult to the workers and a waste of public money.

Deputy Pattison must be aware, as I am, that to take over the operation, as he suggests, would cost the taxpayers of this country £8 million, in a situation in which 70 per cent of the sales that have gone out in recent times have gone to Marks and Spencer and Carrefour. Is he suggesting that the taxpayers of this country and, indeed, to this House that we should subsidise those customers to the tune of that amount of money? If he does not want to take over something that will be a liability on the State, neither do I nor do I think does anybody else.

Irish Steel Holdings Limited lost £25 million last year and the year before.

Therefore, when one starts playing politics with 640 jobs one must realise what is the reality of the situation. I have listened intently for the past eight months to financial rectitude being preached from those benches over there. I can only say that it is in the highest hypocritical terms I have ever heard coming from anybody. Can they not face the reality and produce the facts as they exist in relation to this situation ——

We want the same treatment for Kilkenny as for Irish Steel Holdings Limited.

Would Deputy Crotty please behave himself? I am surprised at an experienced Deputy like him giving such bad example to the House. Would the Deputy allow the Minister to conclude without interruption?

They should realise that I want to reopen it, the IDA want to reopen it, everybody else wants to reopen it. I have made it abundantly clear that the success of any business venture is simply as Deputy Pattison enunciated last evening and was the response he got from one of the companies who deal with Fieldcrest. They are prepared to deal with any new company, to continue business with the new company provided delivery, price and quality continue as they were. I have clearly demonstrated to the House this evening that there is no way the price can remain as the price they were paying for it clearly because of the costings to which I have referred, because of the losses endured. If the House is suggesting that we should take up those losses then they should come out honestly and say so — that we are supposed to step into any factory that fails to sell on a market and subsidise foreign customers. That is the reality of the situation and let us face it. Deputies should not shelter under umbrellas trying to produce false information, trying to mislead people into thinking that introducing a motion here will open the Fieldcrest factory in the morning. We all want to do that. The sensible way forward is as I have suggested. Deputies should think about undermining the whole of the IDA, the legislative processes of this House practised over the last 30 years; they should think about that carefully before casting their votes this evening.

I will not interject again.

I have clearly shown that I am realistic and I want everybody else to be just as realistic. I want the House to be realistic in thinking about the effect on industrial investment. I want them to realise that the Government motion constitutes the only sensible way forward in this situation. I can say this without contradiction, that at present there is one major European company looking for a partner, and the IDA are looking around for a partner who will take it over. But there are three stages to this approach by the IDA. One was a single take-over which has not succeeded. The second one was a variety of partners — one major European company is already looking for one and expects to have a decision taken "yes" or "no" within the next three to four weeks. The third one down the line from that is a combination of people who will come together with various products. That production line will produce six miles of towel on one single production line. Everything is specifically designed to the economies of scale on which that is operated. There will have to be changes in that machinery because I am reliably informed that the sector of the market that could be penetrated with high quality towels at this time would only represent approximately 25 per cent of the total production of Fieldcrest. That gives an idea of the scale of the problem that is there and sweeping it under the carpet, shaking your head at the unreality of the situation will not ensure any great success for the workforce.

The people in this House must face up to their responsibilities. There is a reality which will have to come into Irish politics and the sooner this happens the better. When somebody over there talks about a Talbot deal let that person not forget that Deputy Garrett FitzGerald, as Taoiseach on 23 December last, activated that and passed it over to the poor Minister for Industry and Energy to solve his problems. He had the hypocrisy to stand here opposite me and five times asked the Taoiseach to answer a question on it when he knew that as Taoiseach he transferred it over to my Department.

We have the hypocrisy of people trying to say that the Government changed and did an about turn on the Ardmore Studios. They certainly did not. I repeat tonight that the Government's policy in relation to that stands and trying a trick of the loop situation with a notice of motion that did not spell out what they wanted brought in by a party who would not support a motion that was specific in relation to the nationalisation of that asset will not solve anything. Are we now talking about total nationalisation or are we not? I ask the Labour Party to make up their minds on whether we are, come out specifically and say so because there is another party sitting on their back who are prepared to say it. They should let the House decide if we want to nationalise every industry that will fail in bad or serious times. That is the reality of the situation and they should realise it before they cast their votes here tonight.

As nobody else is offering, I am now calling on the mover of the motion to conclude.

I would like to give notice that I intend to move my amendment to this motion.

The situation is that that amendment will be moved at a later time. The House is aware of the fact that it is the Minister's intention to move it.

It is on the Order Paper and I am giving notice that I will be moving it at the appropriate time tonight.

I want to give notice that I will be moving my amendment at the appropriate time.

(Waterford): On behalf of The Workers' Party I will also be moving my amendment.

It is not necessary for the Deputy to give notice about this because the Deputy's amendment has been moved.

(Interruptions.)

I am calling on Deputy Pattison to conclude.

I want to clear up a point referred to by Deputy Gallagher who spoke last night. He stated that if I was prepared to incorporate the inquiry aspect of The Workers' Party motion into my motion he would be prepared to accept my motion. I wish to state that I am prepared to accept the inquiry addition to my motion but, unfortunately, at a Whip's meeting today the Fianna Fáil Whip would not agree to that. Consequently, we are left with a technicality of taking the motions as they stand.

(Interruptions.)

Will the Minister cease interrupting?

Deputy Crotty should not interrupt either.

The only reason I left out the request for an inquiry at the end of my motion was that I wanted my motion to be solely concerned with the human tragedy of 640 workers and their families of all ages and all the hardships that such a human disaster conveys to everybody. I wanted that to be the central point of this debate. For that reason, I did not want it to be clouded at this stage by any reference to an inquiry. I support the call for an inquiry and I note that is also the view of the Government and the view of the Fine Gael Party. Everybody supports that call.

The Deputy did not support it last night.

I did not for the reasons I have stated.

Does the Deputy want me to quote what he stated?

(Interruptions.)

I appeal to Deputy Pattison that if there is an unmannerly interruption from anybody that he does not pay any heed to it.

I will try to ignore the Minister but it gets difficult at times.

It is the changing of ground which is difficult.

No. If the Minister reads what I said last night he will see that I said the question of an inquiry was not an urgent matter and that it would not serve any purpose at this stage.

The Deputy changed his mind tonight.

I ask the Minister to give to Deputy Pattison the hearing I insisted he got.

I thank those who supported the general idea behind the motion. The motion gives the support of the Government to the IDA. There is provision in section 33 of the Industrial Development Act, 1969 and in section 9 of the Industrial Development Act, 1977 which gives the IDA the authority to purchase or take shares to any extent the IDA may consider desirable in the body corporate owning, controlling or managing the undertaking or in a body corporate participating in the ownership, control or management of the undertaking. It gives them power to form or take part with other persons in the formation of such bodies corporate and it gives them power that no shares shall be purchased or taken by the authority whereas, as a result, the authority would have a majority shareholding in a body corporate unless the Minister shall have approved of the proposed purchase or taking of shares. That is what I am asking the Minister to do.

There is no argument about that, but where can I instruct the IDA about that? It is not anywhere in legislation.

I am using the word "instruct" deliberately, having regard to the motion passed in regard to the Ardmore Film Studios. One must give specific instructions in Motions because if one does not the Minister has proved himself to be adept at wriggling out of decisions of the House.

The Deputy tried to trap The Workers' Party but it did not work.

I am trying to be as specific as I can and I am not surprised that the Minister does not like that because he would like to wriggle out of this one also.

I will approve it if the IDA decide it tomorrow. Is that a fair commitment across the floor of the House? If the authority approve of what the Deputy wants to do I will approve it tomorrow. The Deputy should put the facts, he should not be putting the cart before the horse.

We should have some order in the House.

The Chair would like to remind the House that he will not tolerate interruptions of this kind. I should like to appeal to the House again, and finally, to allow Deputy Pattison make his case for the remaining ten minutes he has. In that respect I encourage Deputy Pattison not to direct questions to anybody but to address the Chair. We might make headway if that is done.

I was anxious to explain to the Minister the legal power the IDA have, with the approval of the Minister. They have these legal powers to take up to 100 per cent equity in any undertaking that they so wish to do.

I am not arguing about that.

That is what my Motion is about. It has been pointed out that a lot has been done for other places and the question has been asked why the Government have not done anything for Kilkenny. When in Opposition a few months ago Fianna Fáil accused the Coalition of having abandoned the west, but it now appears that the Government are abandoning Kilkenny.

Far from it.

I should like to point out that if this Motion is passed it will not cause a general election.

Is Deputy L'Estrange having a private conversation with somebody? If he is he should do so outside the Chamber.

The Minister interrupted on a number of occasions and the Chair did not call him to order.

The Chair did on two occasions.

I am only talking about the doom and gloom.

It has been stated that it did not matter which way Deputies voted, but the way Members vote on any issue is important. We are all aware of the high value the Taoiseach places on a single vote in the House. It is wrong to suggest that the way Members vote is immaterial. The Minister raised the question of how responsible we were. If he was in our position in the last three months as representatives for Carlow-Kilkenny when this issue came to a head he would have adopted the same attitude that we have. The matter has been a burning issue in Kilkenny since 8 March and in the following three months the public representatives did not raise the issue in the House. Is that not responsibility? How far does one carry that, particularly when it is contrasted to the action of the Minister's party when the Clondalkin Paper Mills closed.

The Deputy was in Europe.

The Minister for Defence should go out to the Falklands.

It must be contrasted with the efforts that were made by the Government, the trade unions and the workers to get together a package with Foir Teoranta in connection with the Clondalkin Mills. Motions were tabled here about the nationalisation of Clondalkin. The representatives of Carlow-Kilkenny in the last three months had confidence in the Minister and the Government. In all honesty nobody in Kilkenny would have confidence in the suggestion put forward by the Minister now.

The Deputy should not try to con the people, telling them that the Motion is going to re-open the factory.

The people are disapointed with the performance of the Minister to date.

I appeal to the Minister finally not to interrupt the Deputy.

We have been too responsible and sincere in our approach to this major problem. We have not raised any expectations unnecessarily or created an unreal world. There has been complete political responsibility to the level that the five Deputies were criticised in the local press for our silence in the last three months on the problems of Fieldcrest. Now, because we raise the issue, the Ministers says we should not talk and that the matter should not be debated in the House.

I did not say that.

The Minister said that this was not the place to discuss these matters, but where can we have them discussed?

I did not say that.

Drastic situations require drastic solutions. It is possible that my solution is a drastic one but it is necessary. The Minister has not offered any other resolution.

The Deputy should say it out straight, nationalise it. Is that the Deputy's solution?

Surely the Minister is out of order.

I am afraid that if the Minister interrupts again I will reluctantly have to ask him to leave the House.

I am trying to get the record straight. The Chair will not hear me again.

I have not pursued Motions as irresponsible as those introduced by Fianna Fáil when in Opposition. They put forward Motions about the nationalisation of Clondalkin Mills at a time when it was possible to make another arrangement to get those workers into employment. The Minister outlined the history of the plant since it opened and in doing so he partially let the cat out of the bag. At one stage, pointing across to these benches he said: "You are the people who put it there".

There is a touch of vindictiveness in that statement.

There is, because it seems to indicate that because we were the people who put the plant there the Minister is now shrugging off the responsibility and trying to put the blame somewhere else.

Far from it. There is an answer to the Deputy's question.

I did not expect the Minister to say that, but the fact that he did is an indication of vindictiveness by the Government against Kilkenny.

I said it in answer to what the Deputy said.

It appears that because we were the people who put the plant there the Minister is refusing to do anything about it.

On a point of order, at 8.25 p.m. the Minister said he would not interrupt again but twice in two minutes since then he has. Even by his own standards that broken promise is a record.

The Minister also said that he did not give a narrowed brief to the IDA. I looked through everything the Minister said, including his statement of 9 June in reply to a Private Notice Question, and he only spoke about the attempts to find a buyer for the assets of a going concern. He did not mention anything else except the efforts of the IDA to take over the entire plant as a going concern. I am putting my Motion to the House in the hope that it gets support. It is not an ill-conceived motion. It is well thought out and that is why the Minister does not like it. We have not at any stage played politics with the situation. If we wanted to play politics we had three months to do so but we did not and we are not doing so now. If the House means anything it means that when 640 people lose their jobs it is the duty and responsibility of those elected to represent them to raise the matter on the floor of the House.

I will not make any apology to this or any other Minister for coming in with a motion which is the best one to try to save those jobs and get the company back into business as quickly as possible. I accept the addendum that will be moved by Deputies Crotty and Governey. If possible I will accept the inquiry. If it is not possible at this stage I will put down a separate motion with other Deputies asking for a full inquiry into all the circumstances surrounding Fieldcrest.

Amendment No. a1 put.

Will Members supporting the amendment please rise in their places?

Deputies Sherlock, De Rossa, Gallagher (Waterford), Gregory-Independent and Kemmy rose.

As there are fewer than 10 Members I declare the amendment defeated and the Deputies' names will be recorded as dissenting.

Amendment declared lost.

I move amendment No. a.1.a.:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute:

"supports the continuing efforts of the Government and the IDA to secure the maximum employment in the Fieldcrest factory at Kilkenny and directs the Minister for Industry and Energy to inquire into the failure of this project."

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 80.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Michael.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Bellew, Tom.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • (Dublin South-East).
  • Brady, Gerry.
  • (Kildare).
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Matty.
  • Brennan, Ned.
  • Brennan, Seamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Byrne, Seán.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Loughnane, Bill.
  • Lynch, Michael.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • McCarthy, Seán.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Colley, George.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Clement.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Francis.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Dublin South-Central).
  • Fitzsimons, Jim.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Pat Cope.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Noonan, Michael J.
  • (Limerick West).
  • O'Dea, William G.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Myra.
  • Barry, Peter.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Bermingham, Joe.
  • Birmingham, George.
  • Boland, John.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlon, John F.
  • Cooney, Patrick M.
  • Corr, James.
  • Cosgrave, Liam T.
  • Cosgrave, Michael J.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • FitzGerald, Alexis.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Flaherty, Mary.
  • Fleming, Brian.
  • Gallagher, Paddy.
  • Governey, Des.
  • Gregory-Independent, Tony.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hussey, Gemma.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kemmy, Jim.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • McGinley, Denis.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Manning, Maurice.
  • Markey, Bernard.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Molony, David.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Naughten, Liam.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • (Limerick East).
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, Toddy.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Owen, Nora.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Ryan, John.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheehan, Patrick J.
  • Skelly, Liam.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Spring, Dick.
  • Taylor, Mervyn.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Treacy, Seán.
  • Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Ahern and Fitzsimons; Níl, Deputies Barrett(Dún Laoghaire) and Taylor.
Amendment declared lost.
Motion declared carried.

I move amendment No. 1:

To add to the motion:

"and calls on the Government to provide the necessary finance and to take whatever steps are necessary to effect this in 1982."

Amendment put and agreed to.
Question, "That the motion, as amended, be agreed" put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 80; Níl, 78.

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Myra.
  • Barry, Peter.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Bermingham, Joe.
  • Birmingham, George.
  • Boland, John.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlon, John F.
  • Cooney, Patrick M.
  • Corr, James.
  • Cosgrave, Liam T.
  • Cosgrave, Michael J.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • FitzGerald, Alexis.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Flaherty, Mary.
  • Fleming, Brian.
  • Gallagher, Paddy.
  • Governey, Des.
  • Gregory-Independent, Tony
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hussey, Gemma.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kemmy, Jim.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • McGinley, Denis.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Manning, Maurice.
  • Markey, Bernard.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Molony, David.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Naughten, Liam.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • (Limerick East).
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, Toddy.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Owen, Nora.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Ryan, John.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheehan, Patrick J.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Skelly, Liam.
  • Spring, Dick.
  • Taylor, Mervyn.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Treacy, Seán.
  • Yates, Ivan.

Níl

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Bellew, Tom.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Brady, Gerard. (Dublin South-East)
  • Brady, Gerry.
  • (Kildare)
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Matty.
  • Brennan, Ned.
  • Brennan, Seamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Byrne, Seán.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Colley, George.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Clement.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Francis.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom
  • (Dublin South-Central).
  • Fitzsimons, Jim.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Michael.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Gallagher, Pat Cope.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Loughnane, Bill.
  • Lynch, Michael.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • McCarthy, Seán.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P. J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
  • O'Dea, William G.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Barrett(Dún Laoghaire) and Taylor; Níl, Deputies B. Ahern and Fitzsimons.
Question declared carried.

In the light of the result of the vote I propose submitting a motion that Dáil Éireann has no confidence in the present Government.

This economic motion has been carried by the House. We had a similar motion carried two weeks ago——

We are not permitted to have a discussion on this. We could provide time for it on another occasion but we cannot debate it now.

The Labour Party propose to move the motion "That Dáil Éireann has no confidence in this Government".

We will gladly accept that. Perhaps the Whips could get together to decide when the two motions will be taken.

Now we will see if the Opposition will vote for nationalisation.

Why did not the Minister accept the amendment, and there would be no problem?

The right wing party have finally voted for nationalisation.

(Interruptions.)

Order, please.

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