asked the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs if, arising out of the robbery of a substantial amount of cash at Termon post office, County Donegal on 22nd inst., which was being delivered without security, he considers this policy advisable, particularly in Border areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Private Notice Questions. - Post Office Security.
It would not be in the public interest to disclose what the security arrangements for the protection of post office moneys are, either in an individual case or generally, but clearly the more security that can be provided for both cash in transit and at post offices the better. There are, of course, obvious limitations on the amount of protection that can be given but I am satisfied generally with the extensive overall coverage given by the Garda to post office cash. This is not to say that the arrangements in individual cases could not be improved and these are the subject of ongoing consultation between my Department and the Garda authorities.
When I was Minister of State I was less than happy with post office security. I also tried to persuade the former Fianna Fáil Government to do something about it as a matter of urgency. It is sticking our heads in the sand to say that we cannot disclose anything about post office security when even the dogs in the street know that post office security is nothing short of a national scandal. What happened at Termon post office this week could happen at any post office in any part of the country at any time.
A question, please.
Does the Minister appreciate this? Does he appreciate that it is widely known in Donegal that an IRA and an INLA cell are operating? Is he aware that the town of Carndonagh was held up for an evening by armed men and that against this background the Department of Posts and Telegraphs continue to supply money without security every morning of the week? I am not laying the blame at the door of the Minister or the Minister of State but I want an assurance that the Government will take a better interest in post office security than was taken by the previous Government. I ask the Minister to acknowledge that it is blindness of an extreme kind.
Speech.
It is either a speech or a very long question. Neither is in order.
Having held the position which I now occupy, the Deputy will be aware that there are particular problems in relation to the transit of cash. I am not prepared to disclose whether there is a presence or absence of security in an individual case. To do so would not be in the best general interest.
Would the Minister agree that every day of the week we see gardaí and military escorting money to and from commercial banks? We do not see the same attention being paid to the Post Office when money is being transported in rural Ireland, although we see it in Dublin city, Is this not blindness on the part of the Government? They secure money for the commercial banks but do not secure money in transit to post offices.
Security arrangements are continuously under review and there is a close liaison with the Garda in regard to cash in transit to sub-post offices and all cash handled by my Department. This incident will be noted by my Department and measures will be taken which may result in robberies which are now being planned not taking place.
Was there a Garda escort on this mail van and, if not, why not, in view of the recent spate of burglaries and robberies in the county? Is the Minister satisfied that there is adequate security for mail vans, particularly in remote areas such as this where it is not difficult for an individual or a group to hold up a mail van? Is the Minister satisfied that proper security is being provided by the Garda for the transport of large sums of money by mail vans?
I am satisfied that the maximum amount of security that can be provided by the Garda is being provided not alone in this case but in all cases. We must remember that there are always calls on the Garda, particularly in the area under discussion. If the situation is as bad as Deputy Harte has indicated the House can appreciate the number of calls that are being made on the Garda in this area. I am satisfied that the security arrangements that are available to my Department are the best possible.
The Minister did not answer the most important part of my question, was there security on the occasion mentioned?
He replied to that question by saying that he could not answer it.
Do I take it that there was no Garda security escort with the mail van at that point on that day.
The Deputy may take whatever he likes out of it.
That is a very unsatisfactory answer to a serious problem.
The security arrangements that were in operation in that area are at least as good as those that were in operation before we came to office. I hope there will be an improvement in that regard.
The area concerned is very remote. The mail van, carrying in the region of £27,000 with one driver, did not have security. As a result of what we are experiencing in that part of the country does the Minister consider that to be satisfactory in the interest of providing security for the transport of money, a scarce commodity?
What the Deputy has said in regard to security arrangements is not true.
I am calling on Deputy Harte who tabled this Private Notice Question to put a final supplementary. We have been discussing this matter for a long time and I propose to deal with it by permitting Deputy Leyden, the Opposition spokesman on Posts and Telegraphs, to put a short question to the Minister. When Deputy Leyden has finished Deputy Harte may put a final supplementary, if he wishes.
I share the concern of Deputies Harte and Conaghan in regard to this matter and I also sympathise with the Minister.
This is not the time for speeches. The Deputy should bear in mind that speeches, statements, arguments and debate are out of order. That rule has been upheld by many of my illustrious predecessors.
In regard to the extreme situation as far as security on mail vans and post offices is concerned will the Minister consider obtaining more Army participation, in co-operation with the Garda, particularly in Border areas? I appreciate the concern of the Minister and his Department and I accept that this is not a party political issue.
The Deputy is highly appreciative. He must be aware that robberies are not confined to Border areas. Each case is examined and if there are lessons to be learned from the robbery in question they are studied. If further precautions are necessary they will be taken.
Does the Minister agree that it is extremely dangerous to allow money to be transported without an escort because the people who steal it are armed? If anybody stands in the way of such people they may be shot, as happened in this city. Is it not true that transporting money without security is inviting subversives and others to attempt to rob the money and that those who may get in their way may be shot?
The Deputy is making an excellent argument.
In not providing proper security we are putting the lives of people in the Department, those who are expected to handle such money, on the line. I want the Minister to appreciate that and give the House an assurance that money will not be transported in Border areas without security. Will the Minister give an assurance that the attitude of the last Government that it is cheaper to let people steal the money than to pay for proper security will come quickly to an end?
I object to that statement. It is not true.
It appears to be the truth.
That is a slur. The Deputy was in charge of that Department for a while but he did not get back. Garret must not have been too happy.
My record can be examined.
I cannot say anything about the precautions taken by the former Minister but I can guarantee Deputy Harte, and the House, that all necessary precautions will be taken in the future, as in the past, to protect such money.
I should like to thank the Minister for exonerating us.