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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 16 Mar 1983

Vol. 341 No. 2

Financial Resolutions, 1983 . - Financial Resolution No. 14: General (Resumed) .

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(Minister for Finance.)

: When I moved the adjournment of the debate last night I was dealing with the rumours which are running wild about the Government's proposals to sell the Great Southern Hotels in Killarney and Parknasilla. This is very serious. The Government should come clean on this and state their intentions. It would be a shame if the Government decided to sell these hotels, which include the Torc Hotel. This is a well-known hotel throughout the world. Approximately 130 people are employed in these hotels during the summer season and there is a casual staff of up to 50. In the Torc Great Southern Hotel there is a staff of 50. The people in Killarney and Kerry and those involved in tourism are very concerned about proposals to close down or sell off these hotels. The Great Southern Hotel at Parknasilla is the lifeline of the Sneem area and the only industry there. It is renowned for its location, the quality of service and standards generally. It is one that should be doing very well.

These hotels should be running at a profit. The Government should give an incentive to them to enable management to go abroad and market these hotels. It would be a disaster for the tourist industry should they be closed or sold. Tourism in Kerry centres around these hotels.

There is widespread dissatisfaction with the delay in paying social welfare benefits and also the delay in dealing with applications for unemployment assistance, unemployment benefit and disability benefit. The decision-making process in the Department of Social Welfare should be decentralised. There is no reason why staff at local level should not be in a position to make decisions. There is an ever-increasing number of applications for unemployment assistance and unemployment benefit. It is not possible for local offices to deal immediately with all applications, particularly since the number of staff has not been increased. It is fundamental to the operation of the social welfare code that there should be speedy decisions in relation to applications. People who apply for benefits require money urgently in order to maintain their families. The only way this can be done is through decentralisation. I am also concerned about delays in dealing with representations made to the Department. It is not unusual for three or four weeks to elapse——

: The Deputy will appreciate that this is a matter for the Estimates and not a budgetary matter.

: As regards the budget and the proposals contined in it, provision should be made for the employment of staff, if necessary, to deal with representations made by Deputies. A lot of money would be saved by the Department as it would mean fewer parliamentary questions being asked about individual applications for services and payments. I reiterate what I said yesterday evening, that there should be a major scheme of decentralisation by the Government from Dublin, which is top heavy, to provincial towns. We all know the difficulties associated with an ever-increasing population, buildings and lack of office space in Dublin, which gives rise to problems with regard to planning, traffic, infrastructure, housing and environment in Dublin city and county. I am very disappointed that the Government have decided not to proceed with the decentralisation programme. The last Fianna Fáil administration were proceeding with the examination of tenders for the building of Government offices in certain provincial towns. There are builders in Killarney who would be quite prepared to enter into a package with the Government to erect a Government office there. When land has been purchased and plans are ready it is important that such a scheme should proceed as soon as possible.

This budget does nothing for the expansion of business. There is no incentive for the creation of much needed employment, to which I referred at length yesterday evening, especially for our young people.

: Too much attention has been focused on the specific measures adopted in this year's budget and not enough attention given to the objectives it is trying to achieve and the reasons why so severe a budget was necessary. We must ask why is it, when our economy is in the state it is in, that the Government have no room for manoeuvre and little scope for introducing remedial actions.

The answer lies with the policies adopted by each of the four Fianna Fáil Ministers for Finance in the years 1977-82. In 1977, with the Irish economy expanding and with world demand growing, Deputy George Colley introduced the wildly inappropriate measures proposed by his then colleague in Fianna Fáil, Martin O'Donoghue. Public spending was boosted for its own sake. No account was taken of the benefits this spending was to bring or the efficiency with which it was spent. This extra, wasteful and unnecessary public spending was financed not by taxation but by borrowing and we see the fruits of that policy to-day.

Deputy Michael O'Kennedy, Deputy Gene Fitzgerald and Deputy Ray MacSharry along with Deputy Colley may walk to the beat of different Fianna Fáil drums but in the implementation of bad economic policies they all carried the same torch. Each of these former Finance Ministers, along with their Fianna Fáil colleagues, carry the responsibility for the current poor state of the public finances and the consequent inability of the State to take action to stimulate economic recovery through an expansionary budget.

In July 1981, in January 1982 and now again in February Fine Gael and Labour have shown in Government that we have the courage to face up to the economic problems of the country and we have the determination to introduce the policy measures Fianna Fáil ran away from during their years in office.

When the Leader of the Opposition became Taoiseach he went on television to inform the country of the dire straits we were in and indicated the necessary harsh measures that were required to deal with these problems. At that time he had the country behind him but, at the first chill wind of a pressure group, he collapsed like a deck of cards. That is when our problems began.

The Opposition seemed to believe when they were in Government, as they do now, that there is a choice about the policies the Government can now introduce. There is but one choice — continue the downward path along which Fianna Fáil's lack of political courage led us or face up to our problems and introduce measures to reduce our borrowing requirement and get our public finances into order again.

Measures to control Government spending and reduce our borrowings are not introduced in place of measures to stimulate growth and employment. Measures to control Government spending and to reduce our borrowings are prerequisites for putting the economy into a position where we can avail of the opportunities to produce and sell more goods and services and, as a result, boost employment.

When the Opposition accused the Government of being preoccupied with the public sector deficit they displayed the type of approach which has put the country into the difficulties we now face. This Government are determined not only to restore balance to the public finances but to introduce policies which will encourage development and improve prospects for a sound, sustained economic recovery.

Taxation for a number of years has been reaching intolerable levels and yet we are still not raising sufficient revenue to cover Government spending. There is limited scope for more taxation as is evidenced by the fact that while labour costs to employers have been rising rapidly, workers' take-home pay has been falling, as the Government steps in to take their share to pay for the services they provide. All this leaves only one course of action open to the Government. That course of action is to curb increases in Government spending and to introduce greater efficiency in the use of public funds so that the cost of providing State services can be curtailed.

The Government will strive to achieve the higher productivity and greater efficiency in the public sector on which the restoration of balance between Government revenue and spending rests. The key to increasing employment and improving living standards rests on improving efficiency and productivity in the private sector also. Measures will have to be introduced in both the public and the private sectors to improve performance. Only in this way can we produce and sell more goods and services on the home and export markets.

The management of our country's resources rests in our own hands. It is up to the people charged with utilising those resources to ensure that they are managed in a way which produces the best results at least cost. Unless we can do this in the use of resources in the State sector such as education, agriculture and industrial resources, we cannot hope to achieve the increased living standards and employment growth we all desire.

Structural change to improve performance in industry and agriculture has not been pursued so that much of the country's resources lie under-utilised. This cannot be allowed to continue while so many of our young people are left without jobs. Many people who are stewards of the country's agriculture and industrial resources have failed us as a nation by failing to obtain the full economic potential from those resources. The State, unfortunately, has propped up for too long, too many inefficient producers. This cannot be allowed to continue. State resources should be used sparingly in agriculture and industry and should be used as a lever to bring about change and not as a means of subsidising inefficiency at the expense of the taxpayer. The state of our economy is such that short-term political advantage should no longer be allowed to be the criterion for economic policies. Longer term considerations, which emphasise the efficient use of the country's resources, should be the determinant of economic action.

This budget is the first step that this Government are taking towards altering the economic direction the country is taking. It tackles the main impediment on economic performance — the imbalance in the public finances. We will go on from this budget to pursue measures to improve the use of State funds. Evidence of our commitment to this end is given in the budget speech where the Minister for Finance stated his intention to update procedures relating to public expenditure and taxation to ensure that Dáil Éireann is better informed on expenditure developments.

The budget has been criticised by commentators outside this house for failing to tackle Government spending. I would refer those commentators to the Minister's Financial Statement where he said:

In the time that has been available to this Government since we took office, we have had to concentrate on making the decisions required to restrain the built-in pressure for further growth in expenditure rather than getting down to the fundamental readjustments which will be necessary.

He went on to say that the Government's intention is that expenditure adjustments will be the primary focus of Government attention during the coming years. I welcome that intention because, as I said earlier, I believe it is the only course of action now open to us because of the extremely high rates of taxation facing taxpayers.

I welcome also the commitment to a National Planning Authority. A national plan is not a magic formula for solving our economic difficulties. It is, however, a useful tool for establishing the tasks that need to be undertaken if we are to achieve our desired objectives and it points out the constraints and obstacles that may impede the achievement of those objectives.

Unlike Fianna Fáil, I do not believe that once a plan is written it has achieved its purpose. Indeed, a plan is only a guide to the goals which you want to achieve. There was much talk about a plan that was written hastily, The Way Forward, which seems to have died somewhere along the line. This is the type of dialogue we do not want. Any planning must have positive and realistic goals which it can achieve, not pie-in-the-sky for some political advantage. That is what makes people cynical, and that is why I believe that the Minister in bringing forward a national plan will have the type of goals that can be achieved and that he can bring industry, agriculture and the trade unions with him in writing any plan that must be written. Without the social partners being brought along the road with you, you have little hope of fulfilling any type of economic plan. The time is ripe now and people in all walks of life see the necessity for remedial action, positive action and planning. We should not waste time. Time is not on our side.

At the beginning of my speech I said that debate on the budget had focused on specific measures with little or no attention being devoted to the context in which the budget was introduced or the objectives it sets out to achieve. I have tried to redress that imbalance in my speech. I showed that inappropriate policies over the past few years by successive Fianna Fáil Ministers for Finance have brought about the current predicament where little scope exists for fiscal policy to be used to ease the state of the economy.

The country's public finances have to be got into balance to provide the sound foundations on which we can then build economic progress. To date, as the Minister said, he has had to concentrate on raising taxation but the emphasis in the future would be on curbing spending. The Minister has also indicated that he has proposals for ensuring that Government expenditure might be made more efficient and effective. I fully support his efforts in this regard.

In the Department of Health and the Department of Social Welfare I for my part will do all I can to ensure that the money spent is used in ways which bring the best results. We must strive to make sure that State services get through above all else to the people who need them most. In the health services for example, this means making sure that nobody is deprived of necessary medical care through inability to pay for it.

Nevertheless, the costs of our health services have been rising rapidly in the last decade and now account for over IR£1,000 million of Government spending. We know that the demands for health services and social services far exceed society's capacity to deliver. No matter how desirable, no matter how strong the case for a particular service, it still has to be paid for and it will have to be paid for ultimately out of taxation. Furthermore, improved services in one area of Government spending such as health of necessity means fewer resources for some other area such as social welfare, job creation or education. This makes it all the more imperative that the necessary steps are taken to see that the services are provided in the most cost-effective way and that health agencies seek ways and means of meeting their obligations in the most cost-effective way. This can be done by maintaining the highest of services but by ensuring that we get value for money. The medical profession particularly seem to feel that there is no onus on management, that it is purely on the health side. In a time of scarce resources it is necessary that everybody is conscious of expenditure and that in the expenditure for which people are responsible they must see that the best value is obtained. If we adopt that attitude across the board we can improve our existing services.

Seeking the most effective way of doing this entails, for example, the elimination of wasteful practices such as that caused by unnecessary admissions to hospitals. In my experience, some outpatients departments are neither adequately accommodated nor properly organised. If deficiencies in this area are remedied, it would help to ease the demand on in-patient accommodation.

By virtue of the soaring cost of health services, it is necessary to stop and take stock of our situation particularly in the current economic climate. Even in times of strict economy, there is much that can be achieved in the planning and development of our services. This is the time to plan for a better co-ordinated service. It goes without saying that careful attention to the planning and operation of the preventive public health service makes sound economic sense. This is something which we should continue to pursue and to effect. The impact of many diseases and conditions of ill-health which are prevalent in Ireland is considerable in terms of human suffering and pressure on primary health care and hospital resources. In view of this, there is a need to develop programmes aimed at the promotion and maintenance of health practices and the prevention of disease.

A period of challenge and opportunity is facing the health services in Ireland today. Gone are the days of the old killer diseases that flourished through poor hygiene and lack of adequate prevention programmes and claimed large numbers of casualties who were beyond the help of the medical profession.

Without the dedicated involvement of people at the local community level, the efforts of governments and professional bodies will not bring results. There is no substitute for the example set or the advice given by respected, concerned members of a local community. The family doctor, the local clergyman, the public health nurse: these are people who are traditionally in a position to influence those with whom they come in contact. They meet all sections of our community, including the disadvantaged members of society, the poor, the illiterate, the very young and the very old. These are the vulnerable groups who are most at risk — these are the people who are in the greatest need of motivation to seek the help they may need, to avail themselves of services which are there for them. Yet these are the very people who are not reached by national campaigns or, indeed, by free toothbrushes. They do not relate to high-powered publicity measures. That is not part of their world. They will respond only to the advice of friends, neighbours and local community leaders. The Health Education Bureau must ensure that these sources of advice and help are well informed and motivated for their role.

Increasing attention needs to be paid to the health and welfare of mothers and young children, if we are to achieve significant effects on the health status of our people generally. Not alone must emphasis be on the cure of existing disease and the maintenance of health and safety, but also the prevention of potential mortality and morbidity in future adults. Our investment in measures to bring about substantial improvements must be related to the development of strategies designed to combat all the existing adverse factors which influence maternal and child health and safety and to anticipate and plan for future factors and conditions which may arise. This will, I feel, involve a much closer co-ordination of effort between all the planning authorities in the health, environmental, agricultural and industrial spheres than we have experienced so far.

Development in social support and income maintenance measures, technological and medical advances and health education measures are some of the areas which have dramatically affected our thinking and attitudes in recent years and which are closely related to the improvement of maternal and child health. I hope to pay a good deal of attention to these over the next few months and to look at ways and means of strengthening our services and developing them so as to combine the best traditions of the past with the knowledge and advances of the future.

I see the spearhead for achieving further progress in the field of maternal and child health as the community care service. We have developed a relatively comprehensive and sophisticated hospital and specialist maternity and paediatric service but we need, I feel, to place these more clearly in the context of an overall co-ordinated service which is accessible and acceptable to all. In the area of child care, the Children Bill will shortly be coming before the Dáil. This will be most important legislation which will be the basis for the development of a comprehensive child care service.

The community nursing service plays a vital role in bringing health services to the community for particularly vulnerable groups such as the elderly. Although the numbers of nurses and the range and level of service offered have expanded considerably in the last two decades, I consider that there is scope now for reexamining ways and means of making the service even more meaningful and pertinent to the needs of the eighties. The public health nurse can have a particularly important part in a comprehensive co-ordinated maternal and child health scheme and I am anxious that the preventive aspect of their work should be geared to provide for this.

I have dealt largely with areas of the health services which I feel should be developed and can be developed, even in this time of economic stringency. At the same time I consider that cost containment in our more expensive services is also vital at this period. The objective therefore must be to ensure that the essential fabric of these services is maintained by ensuring maximum efficiency in the operation of the existing services. This policy will be pursued vigorously in the coming months and will contribute its share to the reduction of the high costs of the health services.

In framing this budget, the Government were extremely concerned to ensure that adequate provision would be made for those dependent on social welfare. It is important to note the very substantial additional provision made in relation to social welfare spending in 1983. The extent of this increase in social welfare spending, which has already been detailed, when viewed against the diffcult financial situation facing the Government, is a clear indication of a commitment to those depending on social welfare payments.

A number of speakers on the Social Welfare Bill referring to the cuts called ours a heartless Government. It is important to point out that there was a substantial increase in the overall amount allowed for social welfare this year — of the order of £250 million. It is well to remember that, and also that, out of the £1,840 million, the health services are carrying something of the order of £1,100 million. This is a very substantial figure. Looked at in the light of our economic climate, one could not but agree that the measures being taken are compassionate. The Minister for Health and Social Welfare indicated that he would have liked to do more, but the 12 per cent long-term and 10 per cent increases, given the economic climate, were good increases.

Other areas looked at included pay-related benefits, which were reduced. Some people are very unhappy about this but it is important at a time of scarce resources that these resources are spread equitably. That is what we wanted to achieve, and that is what we will achieve. The public were concerned that many people on short-term welfare had higher take-home pay than when they were working. That is a situation which every Government and society should discourage; it should not, and could not, be sustained. That is why there were changes in the pay-related benefit system. Reducing the three day social welfare benefit to two days' benefit was a good move given the economic problems and the strains and stresses under which we all work. The substantial figure of £1,840 million is being expended across the board as fairly and equitably as possible. That was the intention in the budget.

There is no intention of attacking one section of society or pitting one section against the other but in times of economic stringency governments have a grave responsibility to be seen to be fair and to do what is right. We would be failing in our duty if we did not do that. I accept that people gripe and that they have the right to have their pressure groups exert pressure on the Government to get more for their interests, but it is up to the Government to ensure that at the end of the day the people who do not belong to pressure groups are not left trailing behind. That is what we have done in giving them a greater increase than 12 per cent. That is very important.

I wish to place on the record my confidence in the Minister and his firm no-nonsense approach in these most difficult times. The Minister has been criticised unfairly for not having spelt out an economic strategy in this budget. This is to misunderstand the budget which is only one part of an economic strategy and, in the Minister's case, the first part of an economic strategy. I have every confidence that he will provide the other parts of a strategy for developing the economy with the same clarity of purpose, firmness and fairness as he has done on this occasion.

In developing a strategy it is important that we be seen to be fair, that the message being expounded is clearly put across and that we endeavour to bring all sections of society with us. Our problems are not just about Government alone: we have an intolerably high unemployment problem, especially among the youth. Everybody — industry, agriculture and the Government sector — has a role to play in developing a viable and strong economy to deal with these problems.

In Government we have a Taoiseach who will give the type of leadership the people want and are calling for. This was a necessary budget. We cannot carry on aimlessly trying to solve our problems by going to the international bankers and dipping our hands into their tills because there will come a time when they say no and we will be in disarray. Many people talk about independence but if we lose our economic independence we will be slaves to the international bankers. That is something I would not like to see. In my view, this budget will ensure that we will not be slaves to international bankers but that we will be an independent sovereign country in control of our fiscal policies. That can only be done when the people realise sacrifices will have to be made because we have been borrowing approximately £1 billion to cover day-to-day expenses. That gave a false impression and everybody tended to thing they were better off but the day of reckoning has come. The chips are being called in and we have to render an account of our stewardship. That is another reason why we introduced this budget.

I am optimistic that this is the right course of action, that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that the people have hope. That is something we must have, hope for the future. We must lay the foundation for a new economic era so that we can harness our population to provide the jobs and prosperity everybody wants.

Despite the criticisms of this budget, I believe it has the nucleus for a new way forward but this is only the first phase and there are many other phases which will have to be gone throught before we see the light at the end of the tunnel. The important thing is that there is hope because without hope there is only doom. We are not a nation of pessimists we are a nation of vitality and youth. They have the hope and we must give them the confidence, and this budget is a start in that direction.

Mr. Leonard

: In a budget statement a Minister for Finance, while dealing with the financial position, should give a clear indication of a Government's thinking and of Government policy not only for the remainder of the year in question but for much longer. In this year's budget there is no indication of any definite course on the part of the Government. Instead, the budget statement tends only to confuse. It shows no recognition by the Government of the need to develop our resources or to create much needed employment. Neither is there any recognition of the question of the curtailment of imports by way of import substitution, an area in which there must be considerable potential for development and for the creation of jobs.

Instead of giving incentives to the underdeveloped agricultural sector, the Government have done the opposite by way of the withdrawal of funding in that area, so that instead of the industry being able to develop it will be likely to contract. I doubt if the Minister will go any way towards balancing the books by way of the imposition of taxes and the withdrawal of some of the aids.

However, the Border regions, by far, will experience the most serious implications of the budget. Anyone who has been listening to the commentators in the past few months will be aware of the problems that have been created in the Border area by the hike of 36p in the price of the gallon of petrol. During the time of the last Coalition Government the then Minister for Finance increased the price of petrol by 16p per gallon. I recall discussing that increase here then and being told that it was necessary because of very scarce energy being taken across the Border as a result of the price differential of only a few pence. The recent increase of 36p indicates a total lack of knowledge of the situation in the Border area and a total lack of commitment to that area which, in common with border regions in any country, is neglected. Following the budget the chambers of commerce and the traders in the Border counties put together a submission which they gave to the Minister for Finance at a meeting they had with him. In that submission they clearly outlined the extent of the problems, not only for the area in question but for central Government. The background to the situation is well outlined in that submission and the document contains also audited accounts of trading figures, first since the budget was introduced, and secondly, previous to then.

There is a real danger that the trading stucture that has been built up in that region will be damaged for a very long time to come. Following the 16p increase in the price of petrol, only a short time elapsed before there was a levelling off with the price in Britain following a budget there. We are now talking of a difference of 44p in the price of the gallon of petrol. The recent 36p increase focused attention on the differential with the result that people began going across the Border in large numbers to get their petrol at the cheaper prices. This is a serious situation in terms of the future development and trading structure of the Border area. I trust that the Minister will take cognisance of the submission to which I have referred.

The Minister can be described as the gamekeeper turned poacher. A short time ago he was Minister for Agriculture and claiming to be the champion of the farmers but now in one fell swoop he has included all farmers in the tax net. Farming figures for 1982 as published by An Foras Talúntais show that of a total of 269,000 holdings in the country, 63,500 are between one and 15 acres while a further 61,500 are between 15 and 30 acres. These figures indicate that the Minister's gesture is simply window dressing. We all realise that the time has come when everyone who has an entitlement to pay tax must pay it. If this situation could be brought about we could probably ease the burden for all taxpayers. We are all hoping for a fair system of taxation but when we realise that out of 269,000 holdings, 124,000 are less than 30 acres in extent, we realise the futility of bringing these smallholders within the tax net. We should aim at the most simplified taxation system possible but I am sure that there would be huge cost involved in regard to showing that a person with a 30-acre holding and in full-time farming had no entitlement to pay tax. I trust that the Minister in replying to this debate will be in a position to tell us how he proposes to assess such farmers for taxation purposes. Farmers do not wish to avoid paying their fair share of the cost of running the country but I resent the inclusion of all farmers in the tax net because in the vast majority of the type of cases I have mentioned there would be no entitlement to pay tax. I expect that all we will have is very high administrative costs but very little tax liability.

A feature of Coalition budgets has been always a lack of balance and that feature is sadly evident in this budget too. The change in the tax situation for couples getting married does not make any sense. We should put the least number of obstacles possible in the way of these young people who have enough problems in buying homes, furnishing them and so on. The change whereby such people will get tax relief for only a portion of the year in which they are married can hardly be worthwhile in terms of revenue. The Government should have left the situation as it was.

This budget will have a serious and devastating impact, too, on the tourist industry. Previous speakers have referred in detail to this aspect. The VAT increases will mean that Ireland will have the doubtful honour of having the highest sales tax in the world. It should be remembered that the VAT rate in Spain is 2.5 per cent while in Holland it is 4 per cent. That gives some idea of the difficulties that will face the tourist industry this year. The average visitor will be faced with substantially higher costs for a wide range of goods and services. Petrol, which is dearer here than in any other country in Europe, will add greatly to the tourist's expenses and that will leave us in a very weak position. Visitors will have to make the decision either to cut back or, as I expect, most of them will decide against visiting this country. We depend to a great extent on that industry and any further tax impositions on those involved in it could cripple it. The industry has experienced great difficulties in the last four years and we should be doing everything possible to help it.

Another area that has suffered cutbacks under the Coalition is the Department of Education. Education was never favoured by Coalition Governments and the Minister has not made any attempt to break with that tradition. It appears that the Minister is anxious to wind down the support Fianna Fáil had provided for education, particularly in rural areas. We have a high population of young people who have little to look forward to in the area of employment. The curtailments in the education sphere, especially in the school transport scheme, will mean that young people will have to leave school earlier and, consequently, will not be well prepared for work. The cutbacks will mean that many young people in rural areas will be denied second level education. In fact, it has been estimated that as many as 14,000 young people will be affected. One of the greatest achievements of Fianna Fáil was in regard to education. They introduced free education at second level and provided a free school transport scheme. That helped to eliminate the tag of second class citizen that applied to those living in rural areas.

Through the efforts of Fianna Fáil all children were given an equal opportunity of progressing to second level education but with the imposition of the charge for school transport parents of children in rural areas will find it difficult to permit them to continue to the end of the second level course. For many years it was difficult for parents in rural areas to send their children to secondary school because of the cost of transport and school fees. I was victim of that situation because during the war years when I was attending school transport was only available to those who could afford to pay. Members of large families, for economic reasons, did not get the opportunity of progressing through the education system. There was very little paid out in social welfare in those days and the economy was in a depressed state. Money was not available and as a result many children were denied the opportunity of progressing through second and third level education.

There has also been a cutback in regard to the subsistence allowance for trainee teachers. Up to now trainee teachers were paid a subsistence allowance of £10 per week. That figure, £500 per trainee teacher, is a small amount but it helped a great deal towards the cost of attending teacher training colleges. Last week a trainee teacher informed me that she may have to discontinue her studies because without the subsistence allowance she may not be able to afford to continue at the training college. That is regrettable. Many young people work hard at secondary school in the hope of being able to secure a place at a teacher training college. It is unfortunate that the Minister has decided to discontinue that subsidy for second and third year students at those colleges. The Minister should recognise that there are many hardship cases and seek to remedy the situation.

In the course of his budget speech the Minister said the cost of the health services would be examined. Twelve months ago I expressed concern about the spiralling cost of the health services. It is time that the Government carried out an examination of the cost of hospitalisation of patients and community care services. At estimates meetings of our health board we have found that there is little room for manoeuvre and the opportunities to change are limited. We would love to change from institutionalisation to community care services but it is difficult to do that when a board is trying to get by on a limited allocation.

I was pleased to read that the Department of Health hope to achieve substantial savings on the purchase of drugs in the coming year. The eight health boards collectively should be in a good bargaining position when purchasing drugs and equipment for their regions. As a group the boards should be able to use their clout when bargaining with drug companies and manufacturers of equipment and that could lead to substantial savings. As a member of a health board I went on a deputation to meet representatives of a number of drug companies and I was given to understand that we were losing out heavily because we were using drugs that carried trade names rather than using generic drugs. Drug companies also claim that the Department of Health are not using their products to the fullest extent. One example was of a regional hospital with an annual bill of £962,000 for medicines who purchased £200 worth of drugs in the last six months although it was possible for the drug companies to supply at least one-third of that hospital's requirements at a lower cost. When they ask why they are not receiving orders they are not given a direct answer. They are told that the quality of their products is satisfactory and they know their prices are very competitive. They claim they could employ at least 20 more people if they got even one-third of that business. They could employ between 250 and 300 more people if they got one-third of the overall drugs market which amounts to £90 million. I sent this information to the Minister for Health and urged him to ensure that our drug producers received due recognition for their efforts.

I mentioned earlier my concern for the Border regions. This is a matter which concerns not only this years' budgetary proposals. Following our entry to the EEC most public representatives anticipated that money would be available from the non-quota section of the regional fund. In that hope we had many meetings with our counterparts from Counties Fermanagh, Armagh and Derry. I am disappointed at the amount of money which has been made available and the lack of commitment by Government to providing the funds necessary for various projects. In 1980 a special fund was established for Border counties with an allocation of £20.5 million over a five-year period. Money was to come from the EEC and it was to be matched on a pound for pound basis by our Government. The fund was to cover a fairly broad field from tourist promotion to the improvement of telecommunications, improvement of minor roads, development of transport activities and grants for craft industries. Since October 1980 the total amount received from the fund is only £3.4 million. That information was given in a reply to a Dáil question in which it was stated that Donegal had received £1.8 million, Leitrim £391,000, Cavan £500,000, Louth £299,000 and Monaghan £398,000.

I was specifically interested in the amount of aid given to craft industries and I discovered that only £150,000 had been given to Louth and Cavan for development of craft industries, while £0.5 million was given to Córas Tráchtála for marketing craft products. We had been afraid that the money allocated would be siphoned off to agencies such as CTT, who received three times more than the total amount available to assist craft industries. The representatives of the Border regions must demand that the money allocated for this specific region should be spent there.

It is said that this year the allocation has been considerably reduced. Lakeland Tourism expected to receive £1 million but this has been cut to £200,000. We had hoped to obtain enough money to enable the renovation of a market house in Monaghan to be used for craft industries. We are now in the third year of the five-year period and we must ask whether there is to be an extension of that time or a reduction in the total allocation.

In 1979 £80,000 was provided by the EEC for a study of the Erne catchment and two groups of consultants were appointed. The money provided had to be increased several times because it was a costly undertaking. The results of the study were accepted by the two sovereign Governments and by the EEC, but two-and-a-half years have now passed. When I inquired in the EEC offices in Brussels I was told that the climate was not right for development in the area because of the H-block problems and so on. The climate has not been right for 50 years and it is time that this development went ahead. I am satisfied that the EEC will provide assistance if the two sovereign Governments request it. The region must be given the attention it deserves and the Minister for Foreign Affairs should give this matter priority.

Other speakers have mentioned the state of our roads. While the EEC money has been well used for our national primary and secondary roads we are facing a serious problem as far as our county and minor roads are concerned. There is a steady deterioration of the surface of those roads especially from heavy machinery, drainage equipment, the delivery of lime fertilisers and bulk milk collection traffic. The amount of money we have received in the block grant is completely inadequate. While it is very hard to talk about getting additional allocations in a time of scarce resources something will have to be done or we will be left with a very poor road structure.

The local improvements schemes are very important in the three Ulster and western counties. It was outlined in the EEC ten year allocation that money would be made available for local improvements schemes and minor county roads. We hoped that money would be additional to the normal allocation from the Department of the Environment for the repair of those roads. The contribution from the Department of the Environment has not kept pace with inflation. The result is that in real terms we are not getting any more money for those road and lane improvements than we got prior to the introduction of the scheme in 1980. I hope the Minister for the Environment will at least keep to the level of the allocation and let the EEC allocation be a bonus. We have 400 applications in Monaghan and a ten year waiting list. Farmers will have to wait ten years to have schemes attended to. This is a very long time to have to wait.

The Department of Agriculture are examining the severely handicapped areas scheme. I hope they will expedite this examination. Many spot checks have been made on it in many counties. I believe they will be sending a proposal to Brussels for an increase. The Minister should recommend that the balance of the 12 western counties, especially the areas of Cavan and Monaghan, which came out very badly in the two previous designations, are included. We have only 17 per cent of Monaghan and 20 per cent of Cavan classified as severely handicapped. The type of soil in those counties should warrant the inclusion of the full counties. I hope in this respect that something will be done about this and that those areas will no longer be denied justice as far as being included in the severely handicapped scheme is concerned.

In the budget the eligibility for qualification for cattle headage payments was reduced for people with outside employment. The eligibility stood at £5,415 per year and this was reduced to £3,500. This effectively ensured that many of the people with outside employment and with a small acreage will no longer qualify. I believe that a man, with a wife and two children, who is on social welfare and has ten or 12 acres will not qualify for the cattle headage payment grant. I believe this was the quickest way of increasing our national cattle herd, which has gone down very much in the last few years.

Manufacturing industry is finding it very difficult to compete and this means more unemployment. The Government and their agencies must look at agriculture and the food processing industry and develop it. For many years we have made strenuous efforts to attract foreign industries to set up here but during that period we have failed to develop our agricultural resources. Since we joined the EEC, and despite the generous grants we have received, our record in agriculture is dismal. We had years of great expectancy before we joined the EEC and we have failed to avail of the opportunities since. In reply to a parliamentary question recently we heard that employment in agriculture stands at 196,000. Our unemployment figure will soon be the same. There will soon be as many people unemployed as are working in agriculture. In 1979 there were 221,000 people employed in agriculture, in 1980, 212,000, in 1981, 201,000 and in 1982, 196,000. There is a steady deterioration of the work force in agriculture.

The various Departments will have to engage in research, training and organising markets. We have completely failed in those three areas. We will have to improve the structure of land ownership and increase the role of the co-ops. We will have to help farmers to achieve greater economic development. The potential is there for it and it is regrettable that we are not making better use of it.

Recently I saw figures regarding the number engaged in the food processing industry. Quite a number of Deputies have spoken about the amounts of processed foods and vegetables which are imported. In the fruit and vegetable industry, from 1979 to 1981 the number of jobs was cut by 300. In grain-milling the number was reduced by 400 and in the dairy products sector there was a similar reduction. In the total manufacturing industry in that period the reduction was 10,000 at a time when we had massive exports. In the past 12 months alone our ware potato exports yielded £26 million.

A Dutch farmer visited Ireland recently and he said he had an average milk yield of 1,500 gallons, stocking his dairy herd at one cow to three-quarters of an acre. If that is compared with our average we have a lot of ground to make up.

The withdrawal of the Farm Modernisation Scheme until the end of the year will cause deep concern. There is to be a reduction of £10.3 million in building grants and in grants for fixed assets and fixed equipment. I suggest that the reappraisal of that scheme should be a continuing process over the years. Grants were available for the laying down of silo pits but as I drive through the rich land in County Dublin I see those pits lying idle, sometimes filled with straw. It is regrettable the scheme should be suspended because some farmers would consider a scheme with the intention of carrying it out on a programme basis in slack periods sometimes one or two years ahead. I am afraid this will retard the development of an industry which was crying out for improvement.

In County Monaghan we had a mushroom growing industry which involved the provision of compost plants and the processing of manure into liquid, all for export. These qualified for grants under the Farm Modernisation Scheme. Most of the people who availed of those grants were in the development status and they got 40 per cent grants. The houses which they used as economic units cost up to £20,000. There was a proposal to expand both the compost plant programme and the processing of liquid manure but this is now being suspended. The Minister should have left some leeway in respect of some areas so that there would not be a blanket withdrawal.

The farm accounts grant has been abolished. It was done simply by a stroke of the pen. Farmers had to keep accounts for a three-year period but when they sent those accounts to ACOT they were told the scheme had been withdrawn. That on-off situation should not be allowed.

Another area which was of great benefit to the economy generally was afforestation. It was a programme which lent itself to job creation. Only 5 per cent of our land is planted. In France and West Germany there are grants of 25 per cent and 29 per cent, respectively, for private planting. I have been speaking to farmers who have told me that there are vast areas of waste land not suitable for tillage or reclamation which would be ideal for private planting and this would give many new jobs to young people.

I suggested earlier that the Government should be looking at a programme of import substitution. The review of An Foras Forbartha for 1981-82 lists 23 items required by the building and construction industry which are imported but half of which could have been provided at home. Our import bill in this regard is £350 million. The list includes wood and lumber, carpentry and joinery articles, sand, gravel, bricks, copper fasteners, aluminium, paints, wire netting, felt, glass, floor covering, insulation, light fittings, central heating and others. In 1979 we imported £295 million worth; in 1980, £319 million; and, in 1981, £367 million, half of which could have been produced here where we have so much idle factory space. I am not satisfied that this matter is being treated with sufficient urgency.

Forty per cent of all bricks we use are imported, and the share of the market held by importers is growing. In 1981, brick imports from Britain were five times greater than they were in 1980. We have the materials and we should be able to set up enough plants to provide the bricks we need. With the fall-off in the manufacturing industry, the Department should take a hard look at imports substitution and provide grant aids and incentives to the manufacturers similar to those available for exports. There is very little difference between exports and the substitution of imports. One is as important as the other.

It is regrettable that the Minister reduced the allocation to the IDA. The IDA should compile a register of existing vacant buildings in each region, many of which could be utilised, especially now that there is a curtailment on the provision of additional factories.

Unemployment is one of the most serious problems facing us at the moment. It must be tackled. I saw in the paper the other day that we are spending £1 million per day on the dole. We must make an all-out effort to ensure that work is available for our youth. The Youth Employment Agency and related schemes should be extended. I spoke earlier about the deterioration of our roads structure. Employment could be provided for our youth on road works and drainage, and that type of work. There is a great opening for our youth in afforestation and especially in private afforestation, in bog drainage and development.

There are massive areas of bogs in many counties. There are thousands of acres of bog in my own constituency. After the war, when coal was put on the market at a fairly reasonable price, people did not use the bogs. With the present cost of coal and a 5 per cent VAT rating on it, people are looking to their turbary for solid fuel. The Department of Labour should co-operate with the Department of the Environment and the Department of Industry and Energy with a view to introducing youth employment schemes.

We were told in the budget that telecommunication charges will be increased from 1 April to yield an extra £23 million. All areas should have automatic dialling. I am disappointed at the slow rate of progress in my constituency. Practically half of the area is still on the manual system. The exchange in Castleblaney is supposed to be ready to become automatic but, for some technical reasons, there has been a delay.

Recently the Minister of State, Deputy Nealon, said in Sligo-Leitrim that they would have telephones on demand inside three months. In my constituency small industries have been unable to get automatic dialling because the connection is not there in the small local manual exchanges. That has had a serious effect on development in that region. A subsidy was introduced for persons living alone in isolated areas who need some form of communication. We are unable to avail of that subsidy because our exchanges are still manual. I hope finances will not be curtailed in the telecommunications section until each area is fully automatic. We cannot afford any cutbacks in this area no matter how financially stringent our circumstances are until that is done. I hope the Minister will ensure that all areas get the same type of service.

While we accept that stern measures had to be taken, the general approach in the budget does not help in the development of our regions, especially in the Border regions. With the differential in prices and particularly in the price of petrol in the Border regions, the Minister must do something urgently about that matter.

: Let me begin by offering belated congratulations to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and, in his absence, to the Ceann Comhairle. I am sure they will fill their role with honour, dignity and impartiality. While I am in a congratulatory mood I should like to congratulate the former Minister for Finance, the Minister for Industry and Energy, Deputy Bruton, on two booklets he produced, the first on Dáil reform and the second on a better way to plan the nation's finances.

I compliment him on his booklet on Dáil reform. As a new Deputy trying to find my way through the corridors, seeking help here and there, I was bewildered. Luckily somebody introduced me to the booklet on Dáil reform and, by learning what needed reforming, I began to learn how the House functions. I know I have a long way to go yet. In that booklet the Minister mentioned these long-winded hour long debates, this verbal garbage, and very often in the midst of that verbal garbage there is a good point which is lost. He suggested that perhaps what should be done is that, instead of giving a Deputy one opportunity to debate the budget, for example, every five times he spoke he should have five minutes to debate a particular point. That would give the Minister an opportunity to reply to the points raised. In his booklet A Better Way to Plan the Nation's Finances he makes a suggestion which I commend to the House, namely, bringing forward the Estimates to the month of October. At the moment Estimates are frequently passed without debate and Supplementary Estimates are passed without any discussion. The obvious advantage in bringing forward the Estimates to October is that we would get an opportunity to debate them, to examine them in detail and to discuss them among ourselves. This would bring us in to line with the majority of EEC states.

The Estimates are often presented in such a way that great detail is given about one area but another area is dealt with in a general way. I suggest when the Estimates are next produced that each secion be presented in a clear-cut, easily read form with sufficient detail to enable the ordinary citizen to understand the matter. Very often the Estimates are influenced by strong vocal pressure groups who make demands for themselves but who are not interested in where the money comes from to meet their demands. These people are capable of seeking personal gains from various Ministers. They are also capable of examining the Estimates and understanding them but the citizen who will be asked to pay very often does not know what is involved. This is why I ask the Minister to ensure that when the next Estimates are produced they will be capable of being understood by the tax-paying public. I ask the Minister for Finance to consider having the capital programme fully debated in the Dáil before the budget, thus giving Members an opportunity to evaluate projects, perhaps drawing on expert reports where possible. I realise this may not be possible in every case but where feasible it should be done.

We are all in general agreement that the country has been taxed to near saturation point. Now is the time to examine every area of spending on a non-party basis. Rather than informing each Department that they must cut their expenditure by a certain percentage while leaving it to them to decide where the cuts are to be made, perhaps the Dáil should discuss the reductions and make recommendations on a non-party basis at to the target to be reached. On this point, both Government and Opposition are in agreement that our target is economic recovery.

I am delighted that the Taoiseach has appointed a Minister for the Public Service with responsibility for that portfolio alone. I take it to mean that many of the recommendations of the Devlin report may be implemented and all of us agree that many of the recommendations need to be implemented. On looking at our services we find there is overlapping of responsibility and excessive duplication of work.

The roots of the present economic problem can be found in the early 1970s when we were hit by unprecedented oil charges. At that time we had the introduction of deficit budgeting on a small scale. Perhaps that was the right stance at that time but now it has grown into a monster. We continued the policy until we reached the present impasse. The situation was further inflamed by the economic decisions of the Opposition when they held office between 1977 and 1981. The day of reckoning has arrived. We must tackle the problem of the budget deficit and restrain ourselves. We have operated on the basis of "live now, pay later": the time has come to pay so that our children can live later. They do not deserve the heritage we are giving them. They did not ask for it and they will condemn us unless we show restraint. We must arrest the decline in our economy and create a foundation on which we can build for the future.

On 15 February 1983 Deputy O'Dea said he did not want to get involved in adversarial politics. He said the budget was deliberately and unashamedly constructed to balance the books. I agree with this description. There is nothing wrong with balancing the books. Yesterday in this House a Member of the Opposition, Deputy Lemass, asked for more expenditure and less taxation. I was amazed to hear a Deputy of her experience asking for this. She did not explain where the money would come from. Perhaps she was going back to borrowing again. If that is the calibre of the Opposition, thank God they are in Opposition. Deputy O'Dea will have to agree that the books needed to be balanced. To ignore that fact would be an indictment of this Government. The Government did not present a soulless budget. It was constructed in a manner that will protect the poorer sections.

I should like to compliment the Minister for Agriculture on the fact that in spite of the tight economic situation he has held on to the subsidy on lime and on AI, recognising that the subsidies are linked to production. I should also like to compliment him on setting aside £3 million for reactors. I should like it to be noted that this is the first time in five years this sum has been increased. I know the Minister is seeking a simplified form of accounts for farmers. I can assure him that farmers in the west of Ireland are frightened, not at the possibility of having to pay tax but at the possibility of having to pay for an accountant and then to find they do not have to pay tax. They worry that they will have to pay sums of money ranging from £300 to £500. I suggest to the Minister that he might consider the gross marginal system. It has advantages in that it has been used by development farmers and the agricultural advisers are familar with it. It is very straightforward and simple and can be understood easily. I heard one speaker say that farmers were very worried about this matter. I must say that his opinion of farmers and my opinion of them differ very much. The day when the farmer could not read or write or understand basic economics is long gone. There are many farmers who could leave us standing when it comes to that matter. The previous speaker did the farmers a disservice. The Minister might consider having simplified accounts also for small businesses. People who want to set up small businesses are frightened off by book-keeping and decide it is not for them. Very often small businessmen do not evade or avoid taxation but just do not understand how it works. The Minister should consider a simplified form of taxation for them.

As regards PRSI and PAYE, the Minister might consider having payments made every six months by large businesses. He should ensure that these payments are made on time by taking court action against those who offend. He might also consider the preferential status of the State. In my town I have seen a number of industries close down and the State had first claim because of their preferential status leaving little or nothing for creditors and workers. This forced many small businesses which were involved with a larger business to go to the wall. The State is better able to absorb these losses than small businesses or workers.

While I was waiting to speak I listened to Opposition speakers and I ask them what they would have done had they remained in office? They, too, being reasonable people would have had to take the same stance as we have. I represent an area where all aspects of Irish life are reflected. We have a university and regional colleges, tourism, large and small farmers, fishermen and industrial workers. Any pinch felt in the country is reflected in the west. I am not claiming that the west is ignored nor am I demanding preferential treatment for it or putting on the béal bocht. However, we have particular needs. Perhaps in six months when the Minister reviews the situation he might consider the programme of decentralisation. In Galway city there is a heavy dependence on the construction industry. The effect of decentralisation on the city would be manifold not just from the point of view of the construction industry but because of the number of people who would move there.

The Minister for Fisheries might consider the establishment of processing factories in the west. I realise this would involve a heavy capital outlay. We cannot depend on one type of fish but must fish all the year round. I see no reason why we should not invest in something like this.

I am delighted to hear from the Tánaiste, Deputy Spring, that the provision of housing by local authorities is most effective. He said a total of £208 million is being made available to local authorities towards the house construction programme in 1983. This represents an increase of £12 million. It is in line with the joint programme of Labour and Fine Gael when they said they would build 30,000 houses per year. I hope that because of the crying need in the west we will get our fair share. Many people genuinely need to be housed. Some are being militated against by virtue of a medical fact. In my city if a woman has one child and finds she cannot have another she may spend seven or eight years on a waiting list. This is not her fault. If she wants to adopt a child she cannot do so unless she has a house. We are in a "catch 22" situation. I suggest each local authority should review the position of such people and draw up an agreement whereby they can be housed within four or five years. The present situation encourages large families. I have known housing officers to suggest to a young couple starting off that they should consider having a second or third child. This is not the kind of counselling such people need.

The £128 million allocated as a subsidy to local authority housing is an increase of 13 per cent over 1982. I compliment the Minister on this. However, four walls and a roof do not make a home nor do 70 or 80 houses make a community. An unfortunate incident occurred in Galway city where an elderly lady was found dead after two months. For such a situation to occur indicates a lack of community spirit. When housing schemes are being built the social aspect should be considered as it is just as important as any other factor. The elderly should be mixed in with young families so that they can keep an eye on them. I am not saying they should nurse the elderly but the situation one would find in an old town should be reflected in new towns.

I congratulate the Minister on a task well done and I appeal to him that if in six months time oil prices continue to drop he should review the position in the light of having more revenue available to him and to use it to encourage employment. I believe this is the light at the end of the tunnel.

: Before the budget, people were prepared to accept tough times for the sake of the nation but when it was introduced they realised that it was the less well off who were carrying the burden and were going to suffer most. The people most affected are the small farmers, PAYE workers, pensioners and the unemployed.

Most small farmers, who are being brought into the tax net, are unable to make a taxable income and those who do, due to increased production and better techniques of management, will find their income taxed. The taxation system in relation to farmers is very unfair because a salaried worker pays tax and the remainder is a personal disposable income. That job may have been created by the State or private sector at a cost to the taxpayer. A farmer should be allowed State aid for his capital investments if he is to be taxed in an equitable manner. If small farmers have to pay tax, they will not have money available to spend on their holdings, whereas if they were allowed to increase their stock numbers, to buy fertilisers and improve their technique and ability, there would be more employment created. The effect of increased investment in agriculture through the purchase of livestock, buildings and fertilisers, would be felt throughout the economy.

The Minister has done away with grants for farmers but says they will be re-introduced in the autumn. The Minister should be aware that very little investment can take place during the winter so the grants have, effectively, been done away with for two years. I appeal to him to restore these grants. They were made available to farmers over the years and they used them to improve their holdings. Why cut them now when small farmers are trying to improve their lot to create a decent living for their families? I hope the Minister will review this as a matter of urgency. He comes from a rural area and should be aware of the problems which small farmers face. When no grants are available, small industries who supply material to farmers will also feel the effects, which will result in more people being unemployed in the months ahead. If there has been wastage through people putting up unproductive buildings, it was not the small farmers who abused the system. I expect the Minister to clarify the situation and to make an announcement as soon as possible in connection with these grants. It was a retrograde step, will curb production and create unemployment. Over the years many small farmers have shown the way, through good advice and grants, towards developing better holdings and their output is as good as in any other part of the world.

Farmers need advice but the advisory services in ACOT are being curtailed. They had done very good work throughout the years on a confidential basis. Very few people realise how much good work they have done because they are bound by secrecy. They have been available to the farmer day and night. The Minister has now reduced their allocation for car expenses and advisers have to stay in their offices for maybe two days per week because the mileage rates are cut by 25 per cent. Some of the whizz kids in the Department may say that the advisers should be more involved in group work, which is more effective, but while group work is effective, it also increases the number of individual visits which have to be made to increase the farmer's awareness of his problems, with the result that individual advice is needed on finance, budgeting and management.

The level of salary of the ACOT advisory personnel is immoral for professional people. They are probably earning 50 per cent less than clerical workers in the Department but when it came to a cutback they were one of the first to suffer. Why should professional people providing a service to farmers be affected first?

The Minister also announced he was terminating grants from 9 February and that only those who had got approval would be eligible for grants. Many people have applied for these grants, sought advice and were in the process of putting up the investments as they were advised by the Department's advisers. They have borrowed money and are about to buy equipment. They have made application to the farm development service but have not yet received approval from the Department, due to no fault of that service. The matter remains that they have gone through the necessary procedures. Some of these people are in the process of buying equipment, building material or whatever the case may be, yet the Minister can state that from budget day there will be no more approvals. I ask the Minister if these people who were told by the advisory service that they would get grants and who have applied to the farm development service are to go ahead and do the job without the necessary grants that they were told they would get. It is very unfair to our chief industry, wherein lies our only hope of pulling out the recession in the long term. Many of those people—some, young farmers starting off after acquiring their holdings; others, working for 20 or 25 years on their family holdings—are told that, even though they complied with all the advice and were prepared to increase production on their holdings, to increase livestock numbers and create jobs in the creameries and bacon and meat factories, they are now to be penalised.

We talk a great deal about the IDA travelling the four corners of the earth trying to attract foreign investment here to create jobs for our young people. Yet here we are, with the best land in the world and a people prepared to work long hours in the interests of their families and themselves and of creating employment, but yet they are to suffer from the cheeseparing and short-sightedness of Department officials. The Minister, being a rural man, should not allow himself to be misguided in such fashion and he should at least allow those people to be paid their grants. It is very simple for a Department official to say, "From this date ..." and thereby avoid perhaps a good deal of hard work in the months ahead, or to say that the grants will stop as from today. For such people rural Ireland ends at the Naas Road and little do they realise the hardship created by decisions such as that on a rural family unit. The payment of a grant of £1,000 for a piece of equipment or a building could be the turning point for a rural family. We were able to throw millions of pounds to foreigners who codded us in the past. Thanks be to God, the record was not all that bad, but a number of cowboys in the past came in, used the taxpayer's money, fiddled the tax system and got out. These people on the ground, farmers in general, have given a good return for the grants and moneys ploughed into agriculture through the years by successive Governments and I am sure that the young farmers today are equally as responsible as their fathers have been. I appeal to the Minister, who comes from a county next to mine, to have a hard look at this in the weeks ahead and give hope to those people.

I appeal to the Minister also to have a look at ACOT's request of the past two years for an updating of the staff scheme. I hope that he will give this matter the urgency it deserves. In any walk of life, especially in the professional and agricultural areas, if the staff are not happy they will not give of their best. It is more important that we pay our advisory service, whether in agriculture or industry, reasonable salaries which will give them confidence in the future than to plough millions of pounds into a faceless civil service who are responsible to nobody and are non-productive. Cheeseparing in an area where jobs could be created and the country pulled out of the financial mess it is in is false economy and bad management. I have met a number of the people concerned in ACOT who feel demoralised at present. Without them we cannot increase the production of the golden acres of our land.

Referring again to the grants, a number of farmers, especially in the dairying areas, did not get grants for bulk tanks for the collection of milk. It may be asked why they did not apply long ago for those grants. The ownership of land cannot be switched on and off. Department officials may know nothing about that and I would like to enlighten them. Before we joined the EEC the farmer's lot was not a happy one. The income was uncertain, up and down. It is not great at present, far from it. We are back at 1977 income level and I do not think any other section of the community would tolerate up to 50 per cent reduction in income over a period of years and still work on and be penalised by unfair taxation systems and cutbacks in grants and so on. Through no fault of their own many farmers may not have owned their holdings. There may have been large families and the farmers perhaps had to wait to inherit their holdings while their brothers and sisters had to be looked after. They may not have had the opportunity of a university education because people in the country have many handicaps about which city people know nothing and probably care even less. That is the attitude that comes screaming out from many of our Departments under successive Governments and it reveals many short-sighted, narrow views of what happens in rural Ireland. I am sorry to say that many Ministers have been hoodwinked by the narrowness of the knowledge of some of our senior advisers in some Departments. The strong voice of every rural Deputy on every side of the House is needed to rectify that and give support to our Ministers. When we are demanding such help for our people in rural Ireland all of us on all sides of the House should be honest enough to demand that the Cabinet and civil servants listen to our Ministers for Agriculture and Ministers of State because they are dealing with our most important industry. Gobbledegook from civil servants will not be tolerated in the future because the survival of the people concerned and of their families is at stake.

In fifty years' time we will have the ranch system, all the medium and small farmers having been forced out of business and the quality of life will be destroyed. The finest people on earth were reared in small farms on boreens and in cottiers' homes and the farmers and rural workers helped each other down through the years. These people helped to gain the freedom which we now enjoy. They may be laughed at by the jackeens from Dublin, but when men and women were needed to fight for our freedom and to work for our nation, these were the people who did it. They should be given every financial assistance.

The Minister and his two Ministers of State are rural men, very responsible people with common sense. From their backgrounds, they will be well aware of the problems of the small farmers and rural workers down through the years. The Department officials may ask why these people did not make use of the farm modernisation scheme over the years to buy bulk tanks. That is typical of the thinking of civil servants. Little do they know of the problems about ownership of land in these areas. People may have preferred to make use of these schemes earlier on but, due to family circumstances, may not have been able to do so. The co-operative movement is changing rapidly with regard to dairying. Most of the milk from the dairy complexes is collected by bulk tankers, with the result that people have to change from using churns. People who spend a couple of thousand pounds on buying a bulk tank expect a grant and are being told that, as from budget day, the officials in the Department of Agriculture have decreed that these grants must stop. The unions would not tolerate that type of treatment and would be right. The farmers will certainly not tolerate it. Ample notice should have been given to people who were carrying out farm developments to enable them to complete these. However, the easier course of picking on budget day for stopping these grants was taken. This treatment is unfair and unjust and will stall progress and production on the land. I hope that the Minister will bring this matter back to his Cabinet so that the farmers may complete the development of their holdings.

With regard to the PAYE taxpayer, how does the Minister expect people to be happy in their work when, above £8,000 taxable income, a rate of 60p in the £ applies? When pension schemes and PRSI are taken into account, the rate will increase by 10 per cent. Any income above £8,000 taxable income will put only 30p in the £ into the pocket of the worker. When we compare ourselves with other countries, we find that in Britain one can earn up to £33,000 before one moves into the 60p in the £ income tax bracket. Is it any wonder that married people have to work and that people have become disillusioned and try to fiddle the system? There is no incentive to work. The people willing to get up at 7 a.m., who tax their car, buy expensive petrol, pay the house mortgage, feed and educate their family are being taxed out of existence. The system encourages idleness and the abuse of the social welfare system—which is a good and necessary system for the unemployed, the ill and those genuinely unable to work. Our taxation system is a sick joke.

Has the Minister for Finance ever looked through the report of the Commission on Taxation set up by the former Taoiseach, Jack Lynch, about four years ago whose findings were published last September? This report makes very good reading, even to an ordinary individual like myself. One does not need to be an economist to find it interesting. We have heard a lot recently about the kidnapping of the famous horse Shergar. There may be many small breeders of livestock who make a small amount of money honestly, but there are many fat cats, for example, in the millionaire group of horse breeders, who are paying no taxes whatsoever, or only a token tax. Mr. Dukes and his horsey friends were not touched in this budget.

: Deputy, would you please refer to Deputy Dukes as Minister?

: I am sorry. I did not mean to be disrespectful. I should have referred to him as the Minister for Finance. The Minister would have been more just if he had brought such people into the tax net. If they are paying tax, they are paying very little and there are so many loopholes that they can jump out. It is poor consolation to the poor devil who looks at his decimated wage on a Friday evening and then reads about Shergar's worth. I am disappointed that this kidnapping took place in this country where horse breeding is a valuable industry which creates a lot of employment and our horses have a great name internationally. I condemn those who would do such things and it is a pity that this new type of crime has come to this country.

The Minister for Finance made a very feeble effort to be fair across the board. For a small country, we have thousands of fat cats who are fiddling the system, who can employ the best accountants and overwhelm the tax commissioners with facts and figures, which the ordinary man cannot do. That these people are getting away scot-free is a national disgrace, especially at a time of so much unemployment with so many trying to survive. It is the duty of the government of the day to govern and not to suggest what Fianna Fáil should or should not have done. People expect the Coalition to govern and get on with the job. The Commission on Taxation have provided evidence as to where money could be collected and how the burden of the overtaxed PAYE worker could be relieved. The demands for indirect taxation would also be lessened. These millionaires have a duty to pay their fair share, just as the PAYE worker does and the unemployed who are paying too much in indirect taxation. We hear about social justice from Fine Gael and the Labour Party. Where have their consciences gone since last November, when we heard so much about Fine Gael being trustworthy and Labour keeping the prices down?

Justice has not been seen to be done as regards taxation. There are far too few paying too much in taxation. It is killing the goose that lays the golden egg. It will break the hearts of people trying to make an honest living, who are not layabouts but are prepared to work to rear their families. I appeal to the Minister to look into this matter in the very near future in the interests of justice. As I have said, across the pond in Britain, where many of our people have had to find a living, my brothers included, they can earn up to £33,000 before they come into the 60p income tax bracket. We pride ourselves on the fact that we tried to follow the British and American taxation systems but we should try to copy them in other ways.

Our taxation system does not encourage people to be honest. It also encourages couples to live together without being married, because it is not economical for them to be married. We do not want to discourage people from getting married because we have enough problems as it is.

That brings me to the property tax on houses valued at over £65,000. One would not need to have a very elaborate house, especially if one is living in or near a town, for it to be valued at £65,000. This tax is very unfair on couples who worked very hard over the years to build or buy their own houses. These people are already paying too much income tax, interest on house loans and so on, but to tax them on their homes is very unfair.

I do not want to be critical of the Labour Party because we are all in public life and do the best we can for the people we represent, but I expected that they would not have allowed this tax to be introduced because it is very unfair and unjust. We hear that the people caught in this tax can afford it because some of them live in palaces and have big bank accounts, but I am worried about the ordinary people. A very high percentage of houses have been built or bought by the ordinary working people and they are to be complimented for that. They should not be penalised by this property tax. For example, a house valued at £15,000 some years ago may now, because of inflation, be worth £65,000. These people are being screwed by the PAYE tax system and are also being caught by this new tax.

The consciences of some decent hardworking people in the Labour Party have been pricked during the last few weeks and I am sure after the second week in April many more people will be putting pressure on their Deputies when they see their pay packets. I admire the Deputies who stand up and fight for a better deal, but it is a pity they did not do that before the budget was produced. As regards this property tax, I appeal to the Minister to take into account one salary only because this will encourage people to get married. As I said, we do not want to make it economically more attractive for couples to live together.

Under Deputy John Bruton's budget personal loans were not allowed against income tax. That was a regressive aspect of that budget. Under this budget people will not be allowed to claim interest on personal loans against income tax in future. This too is a regressive aspect of the Coalition's budget. It is the poor who will lose out on this because a well-off person can go to his bank manager and get a loan to buy a car, whereas the poorer man who may need a car to get to work may not get a bank loan but may be told to go to a credit house and pay a very high rate of interest.

Before the budget was introduced, I was very interested in the input of the Labour Party but in my view they have sold their socialist principles for the capitalist principles of Fine Gael. That is unfortunate for the people, especially the less well-off. Do the Government realise how much it costs a married couple with a young family for electricity, oil and the basic necessities such as food, not to mention petrol, which is the dearest in Europe? The price of petrol has been dropping in Europe but in Ireland it is increasing. Petrol is not a luxury; it is a necessity. For the first time in ten years the Government have the opportunity to pass on the reduction in oil prices to the motorist who is faced with increasing costs for car repairs, petrol, car insurance and so on.

As the Government appear to be trying to do away with the school transport system they should be encouraging people to use their cars to bring their children to school. One way of doing this would be by reducing the price of petrol.

The Minister for Education announced some harsh penal regulations but modified them to some extent in the past few weeks as a result of pressure from Fianna Fáil. There was no consideration in the budget for the hard-pressed motorist who needed a reduction in the price of petrol rather than an increase. There is no possibility of people making savings in any area as a result of all these additional taxes. The situation in the car industry was bad enough with sales well down in the past 12 months without the imposition of the four different increases in that area. These are the increase in the registration fee to £40, the increase in road tax, the increase in the excise duty on petrol and the increase in VAT from 30 to 35 per cent. The VAT on repairs in garages has been increased also. This may result in motorists having repairs carried out in places that are not qualified to undertake such work. If this happens there will be more cars on the road in a condition that may be hazardous for other road users. There is also the consideration of employment for young mechanics. Many garages are being forced to close down because of the increased charges. In the past six weeks five garages have closed in my constituency. These were substantial garages, especially those in Clonmel. We can assume that those cars that would normally be repaired in these garages will be repaired now in sheds and back yards so that the Government will lose out in any case. But this is only one of the areas in which we find false economy on the part of the Government.

The effects of the budget will be realised fully in the next four to five months in terms of employment. The capital programme is being cut by £220 million. The effects of this will be felt most perhaps by the less well off—the unemployed, the small farmers and the pensioners as well as by the PAYE workers who have been carrying a heavy burden. It is amazing that despite all the evidence available to the Government by way of the Commission on Taxation, who took three and a half years to report, all the Minister can do is to hit at the weakest sections in terms of taxation. One can only wonder what all that talk from the Government about social justice, honesty and fairness meant.

As a result of the increases in the various grades of oil, there will be a string of price increases generally in the coming months. We will have the reaction of workers generally when they find that their take-home pay will be less next month. One fears that the deflationary aspects of the budget will result in more people joining the dole queue. The increases in the various VAT rates and so on plus the cuts in farm grants and aids will cause the people concerned to cut down on production and thereby to cause more unemployment. Those who advise the Minister for Finance must be very harebrained to think that the bookkeeping exercise in which the Government have engaged will do anything towards balancing the books. I predict that it will have the opposite effect.

Only a few weeks ago the licensed vintners from around the country were parading in the streets outside this House. They were expressing their fear as to what would happen in the budget. In the past when too much tax was applied in respect of the licensed trade the Exchequer lost out as a result of diminished trade. By the end of this year the Minister will realise that he made a mistake on this occasion too. Those people who are endeavouring to provide a decent living for themselves and those who are endeavouring to create employment are being penalised while the system is being manipulated as a result of loopholes in the legislation. In a recent television programme we saw evidence of various firms, some home-based and some foreign-based, who had been given taxpayers' money for the purpose of creating employment but who, through mismanagement or for some other reason, have closed down without having paid the workers' social welfare contributions to the Department. In many cases these firms begin operations in new premises while owing millions of pounds to the Government in taxes and social welfare payments. People who engage in such activity should be locked up. The trade union movement should make loud noises about them. In some cases these companies bring in their partners, go into business again and get more IDA grants and taxpayers' money. We must be the laughing-stock of Europe to allow such cowboys to operate in that way. We are encouraging the gansters of Europe to come here and waste taxpayers' money. I appeal to the Minister to close the loopholes that allow this to happen. I am not suggesting that this Government are responsible for the situation. Successive administrations should have endeavoured to close off the loopholes. However, there is no point in whinging about what might or might not have been done. We must act now to ensure that there is no further abuse of the system in this way.

The unfortunate worker who is trying to provide for his family has no way of fiddling the system. His situation is bad enough without finding out on being let off work or made redundant that his employer has not been returning the social welfare payments. There is a good deal of injustice in the country. In an effort to deal with the situation I appeal to the Minister to reconsider the whole question of taxation as outlined in the budget. Instead of providing incentives to farmers and industrialists to increase productivity, the Government seem to be doing the opposite.

If the Minister is engaging in a good housekeeping exercise I should like to know why he does not start by making cuts in the public service. ACOT propose to reduce the number of advisers and existing staff are being instructed not to go out of the country to assist the farming community, a job they were employed to do. Those advisers have already been a credit to their profession. The Minister should cut the cost at the other end of the scale. ACOT is allotted £15½ million annually and of that figure £4 million is spent at the Dublin and regional headquarters. Savings could be made in that area, but I suppose it is the wish of the faceless bureaucrats in the Department to cut the services to farmers rather than upset the highly paid people at the top in ACOT or reduce the number of them. ACOT is supposed to be doing something for farmers and helping to create employment but because of the amount of red tape involved it is having the opposite effect. It is creating soft jobs for many people but is hindering many farmers who are working to create more employment. We have that type of double think in many Departments and semi-State bodies. We have suffered from that for too long and all rural Deputies should shout loud in their protest about it.

I wish the Minister for Agriculture well in his negotiations in Brussels at present. I am sure he will fight his corner and do his best on behalf of our farmers. He has a tough task ahead. I have no doubt that when the negotiations conclude the newspapers will carry headlines telling our people that farmers are getting millions extra. At budget time we often hear that so many millions of pounds is being allotted to farmers and it is hard to blame urban dwellers who think that we are spoon-feeding the farming community with millions. However, the bulk of the money is used up on red tape, silly schemes and duplication of all descriptions. A lot of money is spent on inspectors checking and double checking from Cork to Donegal on grant applications that may be worth as little as a few hundred pounds. Such grant schemes could be administered at county level by the local authorities who have excellent staff.

I agree with the suggestion by Deputy Coogan that the Government should embark on a programme of decentralisation. Successive Governments have mentioned this down the years but have not done a lot to implement such a policy. I have no doubt that it will not be long before local authority staff who deal with grants for water, sewerage and housing and housing loans will be involved in the administration of other grant schemes. That would be preferable to the existing system under which inspectors drive from Dublin collecting 40p per mile in travelling expenses. Such civil servants get almost three times the mileage allowance of Members. The public who continually knock public representatives do not know that the faceless civil servants collect that amount per mile, depending on the type of car they drive, to deal with grant applications throughout the country. It would be cheaper to deal with such applications at local level. The duplication must be stopped because it is bleeding our taxpayers. That money is badly spent. We must be the laughing-stock of Europe. We have great officials in the civil service but there is too much duplication on silly grant schemes. The number of forms one must fill up for even the smallest grant would give one the impression that one was swearing one's life away.

All Departments should be told to cut out the red tape and provide a better service for our people. That can be done only if the schemes are administered on a county basis. If that is done it may be possible to pay higher grants. Under the existing system many people are scared of applying for grants. It is a nice simple way of manipulating the system, of creating many non-productive jobs. It is the curse of the country. We have come to the end of the road as far as that bunkum is concerned, with people handing papers from A to B at the expense of the PAYE sector and other taxpayers. That will have to stop and our civil servants must be asked to use their time in a more productive manner. They will have to cut out the many harebrained schemes that exist. Many stupid schemes are thought up to create more jobs for friends and make the system more unworkable. Members must spend a lot of time tabling parliamentary questions inquiring about the delay in the payment of grants. That is the type of merry-go-round we are on. It will have to stop because the public who are overtaxed, overburdened and disheartened will not tolerate it in future. Those who apply for grants for house improvements and so on are stifled with red tape and frightened by the number of inspectors who call to them. It appears that the civil servants are operating a closed-shop system. Strong-willed Ministers for Finance and Environment are needed to break that hold. The Government have a mandate to do that and they should not tolerate dictation from any civil servants. Freedom was dearly bought and if the day dawns that any Minister is dictated to by any civil servant or has his arm, his mind or his policies twisted those who spilled their blood will feel that their sacrifice was in vain. We truly have not gained our freedom because we are still under the tyranny of a civil service system which does not see further than the Naas Road and believes that Ireland ends there.

: I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on the budget and I do not think any Member will deny that it is a severe one but I do not believe the reason for it was created yesterday or the day before. We must go back to 1977 when we were told we need not pay tax on our cars or rates on our houses. This would have been very welcome if we could have afforded of it. It was probably the greatest political fraud ever perpetrated on our people. We had not the money for these concessions and consequently the level of borrowing between 1977 and 1981 was unparalleled. Now we are all called upon to pay back that money. Unless we succeed in improving our deficit and rectifying the economic problems there is no hope of providing employment. Unless we give hope to our unemployed we will be creating the conditions for social revolution. We must restore confidence to farmers, industrialists and those at work and, above all, we must look after those on unemployment assistance, old age pensioners and the less well off.

It does not give pleasure to any Government to bring in a harsh budget but the people know that we could not have continued as we were and they accept this budget. We must question whether we are getting value for the money expended by Government, semi-State bodies, local authorities and health boards. There is room for vast improvement in these organisations and they must rapidly become more efficent. We cannot allow the present system to continue. We are paying dearly for the excesses of past years.

A matter to which we must give serious thought is the appointment of chief executive officers. It is wrong to appoint a person, of perhaps, 30 years of age to a powerful senior position and to tell him that he has the job for life. We cannot afford that luxury any more. Perhaps we could devise a system whereby there could be an exchange of chief executive officers between health boards, local authorities and semi-State bodies. After several years in senior positions they become stale and lose their flair for innovation. During the first few years they perform their duties effectively but then they sit back and become ineffective and do not give value for money.

We must all contribute to the betterment of this country. We must pay particular attention to agriculture because thousands of jobs could be created in that sector. I do not know that any problems will be solved by the inclusion of all farmers in the tax net. Income tax specialists and accountants will certainly profit. They are tearing around the country looking for farmers who have not yet paid taxes in order to examine their accounts and then report to the Revenue Commissioners that they are not eligible for income tax. Sadly this will cost those unfortunate farmers several hundred pounds. It is wrong that they should have to expend this money in order to prove that they have not sufficient income to be caught for tax. I would ask the Minister to give serious thought to the possibility of a land tax. This might not be the answer to our problems but it would generate a lot more money than the present system. Farmers should not have to spend their time keeping accounts. They should be producing food for our people and thus preventing the importation of Cypriot potatoes and other foods which could be produced at home. We must pay more attention to the presentation and marketing of our produce and I would question whether supermarkets are promoting Irish produce sufficiently. There has been much discussion about disadvantaged and severely handicapped areas. It is wrong to describe an area as being disadvantaged. Farmers there may be disadvantaged but not the area itself. We have seen farmers who are doing extremely well through their own hard work drawing special grants every year. There are many people living within a quarter of a mile, half a mile or a mile of those people, and because they are at the other side of the line but are considerably worse off, they are not in receipt of those grants. I appeal to the Minister to look at that area urgently.

The previous speaker spoke about the board of ACOT. At the January meeting of the Cork County Committee of Agriculture I asked for the disbandment of the board of ACOT. I did this for a number of reasons, particularly because I believe this is not an effective organisation. It was set up two and a half years ago and took over all the powers of the committees of agriculture, all the farm training centres in every county, the money the committees of agriculture had, and left those committees without any power whatsoever. They have now become a talking shop. The previous speaker quite rightly said that the agricultural instructors who have done an excellent job over the years are now restricted in what they can do and the amount of visits they can make to farmers. This is wrong. I believe, if we spent less money on Frascati House, the headquarters of ACOT, and a little more money allowing the agricultural instructors to do the jobs they are supposed to do, the board of ACOT would be doing what they were set up to do. The greatest indictment of ACOT is the statement made by Dr. Tom Walsh, the chairman of ACOT for the past two and a half years, when he said that he believed that ACOT should never have been set up. It is regrettable it took that length of time to say that but at least he said it. The Minister for Agriculture must examine this in detail. He must ask himself if there is room for the board of ACOT or should we revert back to what we had?

We will continue to speak in this House about value for money. That affects everybody in the House and the people throughout the country. When we see £8,500,000 diverted to Knock airport and the difficulties in relation to Cork Airport we can clearly question the madness of the act of going ahead with Knock airport the first day. I saw on television last night that the promoters of that organisation have not yet contributed one shilling to that airport. I believe it is time we withdrew from that project and were a little more careful. We will all pay for the money going into Knock airport and we will all pay for the money it will take to keep that place going in the years ahead because we all know it will never pay for itself. It is regrettable but that is a fact of life and everybody knows it.

We speak about other semi-state bodies such as CIE. Fleets of private buses leave this city every Friday night taking civil servants home to Galway, Cork, Bandon and many other places all over the country. Why are CIE not involved in that? Why is there not a greater variation of their activities on a large scale or a small scale? Why not utilise the school buses there is so much talk about to make those trips every Friday evening? Fleets of private buses will leave this city this evening taking people down the country. We should harness the buses we have and allow CIE buses to make those journeys every week.

I have spoken to the Minister on many occasions about hold-ups in the payment of unemployment assistance. I was with him this morning about a case where somebody who signed on last July is not yet paid his unemployment assistance. That is socially and morally wrong. There is a demand to change that system. I can understand the difficulties with all the unemployed and all the applications being sent in. We must decentralise and not have all those forms sent up to Dublin to be processed here. Why can we not have small social welfare offices in Cork, Mallow and Kanturk where the people who have problems in those areas can go into the local offices, talk to the people in charge, find out what is required and if there are other forms required? Those people would be able to know what the problems were and they could be attended to locally rather than being attended to in Dublin, which is very remote to many people. Politicians are going to clinics throughout the country every day in the week, meeting people, asking them what their problems are, spending three days a week in Dublin, sending out letters and trying to solve those problems for those unfortunate people. These people do not want to come to us and very often we do not want to see them because that is not what we were elected to do.

We have allowed this chaotic system to go on for years where social welfare has become so remote from the people thoughout the country that they could be on another planet. People write to those offices, sometimes they write to the wrong address, they do not get back replies and they cannot understand what has happened. We must streamline the system, make it more effective and more closely connected with the people involved. The only way we can do that is through local social welfare offices where staff can make decisions and not fill up more forms to be sent to another office to be processed. This is wrong and we cannot afford that luxury.

There is great concern about the price of petrol and oil, particularly in rural areas in my constituency where people have to travel 25 miles to and from work in Cork, five days a week. The price of petrol certainly affects them. I suggest it should be possible to devise some system whereby they would be given a tax allowance in regard to the price of petrol because they need an incentive rather than a disincentive to go to work.

The breakdown in relations between unions and management has been referred to. I do not think either have responsibility for the problem we have — it is a combination of many things. It is all very well for unions to blame management and vice versa but the time is now ripe for both sides to face realities and agree that unless we are able to compete on home and foreign markets there is no future for either management or unions.

I referred to school transport earlier. I understand that CIE transport one-third of the children to primary and post-primary schools and that they are paid £20 million for that. Private operators, I understand, are paid £10 million, half the amount paid to CIE, for transporting two-thirds of the entire number of pupils. The Minister should look at this anomaly quickly because if this is true I could see a saving for the people of the State because it is they who have to pay for school transport. This should not be left in abeyance for years. It should be changed quickly and effectively.

There have been cutbacks in regard to the semi-State bodies. No matter how many cutbacks there are, we never see senior management being let go or made redundant. I find that intriguing. If there are cutbacks in health boards it is the domestic or nursing staffs who lose their jobs; if there are cutbacks in regard to local authorities it is the labourers, the road workers, who must go.

What I have been saying is that this country must become more competitive. We must restore pride in our people. We must have faith in the country. We must support home industry, we must buy Irish. Whether it is potatoes, vegetables, clothing, if we are to survive the onus is on our people to support the Irish product. If we give our people the incentive to work, the country can survive and prosper. There is no point in putting off the evil day. Let us face the situation now and let us all contribute to making Ireland a better country.

: I am glad of the opportunity to speak in this debate because such serious repercussions will befall our people that it is an opportunity for every Deputy to express concern about the manner in which the budget was presented and particularly about its provisions, which are anti-job creation, anti-employment and give the unemployed no hope whatever.

The area of my responsibiliity as Opposition spokesman is Posts and Telegraphs and I will concentrate my contribution on those aspects to a great degree. Yesterday the Government decided that the Taoiseach would make a state of the nation broadcast on Friday night. This is being made possible under the relevant Act but I do not think it is in keeping with the spirit of the Broadcasting Acts to make broadcasting time available to the Taoiseach as a propaganda mechanism in order to project the position the Taoiseach finds himself in. It is not right to utilise the broadcasting media to project the Taoiseach and the difficulty he finds himself in in regard to the Social Welfare Bill.

If the Taoiseach was so concerned about the state of the nation he could have used the broadcasting station immediately after the election or after the budget. It is only fair to maintain impartiality in the national broadcasting system and therefore it would be only fair to allow the Leader of the majority party, Fianna Fáil, a right to reply to the Taoiseach's broadcast as early as Friday, after the Taoiseach, or at latest on Saturday or Sunday. I believe this broadcast will be for party political reasons and not national reasons.

This request for broadcasting time is coming after divisions within the Labour Party over the Social Welfare Bill, understandable divisions because I do not think any socialist or Labour Member in conscience could vote for this Bill. It will create terrible hardship for many people. This comes in the wake of the controversy in relation to the abortion amendment Bill in regard to which the Government have neglected to bring forward the proper wording. They went back on the commitment given by the Taoiseach in the general election campaign that he would have an amending Bill ready before 31 March. He has not been able to do that because he has gone back on the admirably suitable wording prepared by Fianna Fáil.

I refute the Taoiseach's statement that Fianna Fáil did not have legal consultations before the wording was put to the Dáil last November. The Attorney General and his staff of advisers, and experts with legal training in the Fianna Fáil Cabinet, were instrumental in the formulation of the wording which should have been put before the people by now. Many people are concerned about the ambiguity of the Taoiseach in this respect. He is now availing of a section of the Broadcasting Act to provide him with time on Friday night to explain to the people why he has not proceeded with the commitments given to them prior to the general election and as a result of which he received many votes in marginal constituencies. He will be explaining the difficulties in relation to unemployment. Is this to be the beginning of many requests for broadcasting time?

I am taking this opportunity in the Dáil to call on RTE and the RTE Authority to provide equal time for the Leader of the Fianna Fáil Party to reply to the ministerial broadcast by the Taoiseach on Friday night on RTE. It is only right and proper that the representives of 45 per cent of the people should be given an opportunity to explain our position on any of the issues which may be discussed on national media. In the Dáil we have an opportunity to explain our position on any issue or any Bill. We have a rotation of speakers between Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, the Labour Party, the Workers' Party and the Independents. I do not think the Broadcasting Acts were designed to facilitate a ministerial broadcast in the circumstances in which this ministerial broadcast is being prepared. This discredited Government in such a short time — the most discredited Government in the history of the State — will have an opportunity to try to highlight their position in prime broadcasting time.

: The Deputy must have a short memory.

: This could be the start of a general election campaign. We do not know whether the Labour Party will vote against the Social Welfare Bill and so create a general election situation. The Minister of State at the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, Deputy Nealon, and the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, Deputy J. Mitchell, will be involved. I presume the Minister for Broadcasting, Deputy Nealon, will be advising the Taoiseach on the right type of approach to adopt, how to present himself on television, how to present his case in the best possible way. This is a sinister move. Deputy Nealon will be pleased with his early success in allowing the Taoiseach to broadcast so soon after his appointment in charge of RTE.

It is also appropriate that I should mention the fact that RTE have been brought under the responsibility of the Minister, Deputy Nealon, who is attached primarily to the Taoiseach's Office and also to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. To show their impartiality, the RTE Authority and the Minister should ensure that the Leader of the Opposition is given an opportunity to reply as quickly as possible.

When the Taoiseach takes to the airwaves on Friday night, I hope he will make a statement on an issue which has caused consternation throughout the length and breadth of Ireland, that is, that he is withdrawing the £10 or £7 charge being imposed on applicants for jobs in the civil service and the £7 charge for applications for the job of postman and other grades. This is a charge on the unemployed. We have over 180,000 unemployed. Many young people will be entering the job market after the leaving certificate or group certificate examinations in June. They will be faced with the awesome task of raising money to apply for jobs.

When the Minister for the Public Service, Deputy Boland, on advice from somebody in the Civil Service, decided to impose this charge, was he briefed properly on this issue? In 1976 under a Coalition Government the Western Health Board imposed a non-returnable fee of £5 for all job applications. It applied to trainee nurses, typists, clerks, and so on. As a Roscommon county councillor I started a campaign which ended up with this £5 fee being withdrawn and the money, returned to the job applicants in 1976. I enlisted the support of Mr. Corish, then Tánaiste and Minister for Health. I brought it to his attention.

: Was the Deputy a member for the Fianna Fáil Party then?

: The Deputy was always a member of the Fianna Fáil Party. We wonder about Deputy Harte's situation. I never changed and I never will change. The then Leader of the Labour Party was appalled and, as a fair and honourable man, he insisted that the charge should be withdrawn by the then Western Health Board. I also enlisted the support of the Leader of the Fianna Fáil Party, then Opposition spokesman on the Department of Health Deputy Haughey, who gave us his support and weight to ensure that the £5 fee was withdrawn and the money refunded.

That issue arose under a Coalition Government and at a time of high unemployment. About 5,000 people were applying to the Western Health Board for jobs as nurses. To restrict the number of people applying, the Western Health Board decided to impose that charge. The charge was withdrawn and the money was refunded. This £10 charge must be refunded. We will put down a Private Members' Bill, if necessary, to make it illegal to impose these charges. I know the Minister for the Public Service, Deputy Boland, is an expert on mixers. That is his field, whether it is Schweppes or Club Orange, or whatever. His advisers should have known what the repercussions would be. The Minister should have realised what the repercussions would be.

The Government have given an opportunity to any person in this country to arrange to hold bogus interviews, having advertised for jobs which may not even exist, and to charge £10 to each applicant. The Government have given a lead. They have opened the door to fraud due to the imposition of this charge. We have no legislation which protects the unemployed when they apply for a job. You can receive as many applications as you wish, and you can impose a charge if you wish by the courtesy of the Government who have given a lead in this regard. You can get 1,000 applications for one job with a net return of £10,000. In your wisdom or otherwise you can fill the position. If you do not fill it there is no law which will insist that you do fill it.

Surely any intelligent Deputy would realise the repercussions of this for our unemployed young people. The Government have given a lead to every semi-State or private organisation or firm to impose this charge. I am asking the Minister to withdraw this charge of £10. The Minister for Labour is a man of great integrity. He realises the repercussions of this £10 fee. I know the Labour Party also realise them. I do not believe this matter was discussed by the Cabinet. Probably it was not a Cabinet matter. It should be discussed now. The Minister should introduce a Bill making it illegal for any organisation, private or semi-State, to impose a charge on an applicant for a job. This money should be refunded as quickly as possible to the applicants who have paid it. I make that appeal to Deputy Kavanagh, Minister for Labour. He can do something about this matter. On behalf of the unemployed, the people who will be victimised if they have to pay this charge, I make this appeal to the Minister. Mr. Brendan Corish, a former leader of the Deputy's party, was responsible for getting the Western Health Board to withdraw their charges and I am asking this Minister to ensure that the charge in this case will be withdrawn by the Minister for the Public Service, Deputy Boland.

Debate adjourned.
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