The remaining questions will appear on next Tuesday's Order Paper. Deputy Gene Fitzgerald has been given permission to put a Private Notice Question to the Minister for Industry and Energy.
Business of Dail.
Before Deputy Fitzgerald reads his question——
Would Deputy Fitzgerald please read the question?
——I submitted to you a Private Notice Question in my name dealing with the unwarranted intrusion of the British Secretary of State for Defence, Mr. Heseltine, into our affairs when he attacked our neutrality in the North of Ireland yesterday. Sir, you decided to rule out my question. I feel that I should draw to your attention — obviously, through no fault of your own you were not aware of it — to the fact that I put this question down today as a Private Notice Question because in Dublin this afternoon the Taoiseach will meet the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.
We will not take it today. Deputy Haughey knows that he cannot question the Chair's ruling.
I am not questioning your ruling.
Nor can Deputy Haughey or any Deputy avail of the opportunity to ask the question again or to debate the question. I ask the Leader of the Opposition to bear with me for a couple of seconds. I got the question that the Leader of the Opposition mentioned. I got advice on it from the usual sources. I studied the file and the references and precedents referred to in the advice which I got, and I am satisfied very clearly and beyond all doubt that I acted in accordance with Standing Orders and with well-established and quite recent precedent in ruling out this question. I appeal to the Deputy to accept the ruling of the Chair. My hands are tied. If the question was in order and I was so advised, or was satisfied myself that it was in order irrespective of the advice I got, the question would be allowed. I have acted in accordance with Standing Orders and precedents.
Naturally I accept everything you say and it is as much in the interest of the Chair and your goodself that I submit this point to you. I am not questioning your ruling out of my question or attempting to repeat my question or get round your ruling in some surreptitious and unworthy way.
I would not expect the Deputy to do that.
I know, but I put to you, Sir, that when you were having advice and considering the matter you may not have been aware of a crucial factor which would make this question entirely apropos of today and will have the effect of putting it out of date next week. That is that this afternoon in Dublin the Taoiseach——
Hold on and let me make my point.
(Interruptions.)
Deputies, please leave it to the leader of your party and myself. He is well able to make his own case and he does not want any assistance. The leader of the Opposition is making the case obviously that there is a certain urgency about the matter. It was not on the grounds of urgency that the question was ruled out, as the Deputy knows, because I am satisfied he was told. The Deputy was ruled out on the question of responsibility to the Dáil.
I must again protest my good faith in this matter. I am not attacking your ruling or attacking you in your decision, but I want to make absolutely certain from my own point of view that this factor which I wish to put to you, and I will be grateful to you if you let me do so——
I must not.
You must accept my submission.
Do not stifle it like that, a Cheann Comhairle.
(Interruptions.)
It is disorderly to question the ruling of the Chair in the House.
He is not questioning the ruling of the Chair.
I made it crystal clear——
I must defend the Chair and I will not have remarks like that from Deputy Collins which are imputing that the Chair is in some way unfair. I have a skin like that of a rhinoceros but the Chair has not and the Chair must be protected. As long as I am in the Chair I will protect the Chair.
I may have to put this matter to a vote if it cannot be resolved in any other way.
There is no provision for a vote.
I ask you to take my submission and consider it in your wisdom and judiciously in your capacity as ruler of business and order in this House. I would be very grateful if you would let me make my submission to you. Even if then you dismiss it as out of order will you give me permission to make my submission?
Deputy Haughey, as Leader of the Opposition I have——
Great respect for me.
I want to put it another way. I would be prepared to give the Leader of the Opposition certain latitude but if I were to permit discussion with the Chair or an argument with the Chair on the Chair's ruling I would then be establishing a precedent which I think would be a very undesirable precedent.
I do not wish to argue.
I know, but that is what you are doing.
I am not reading out my question. I am not attempting to read out my question by subterfuge. I am not attempting to dispute your ruling. I merely want to make a very orderly submission to you, Sir, about a factor which may not have been brought to your attention when you were receiving the excellent advice that you always receive.
That is fair enough.
I know that.
The factor which may have been missing from your consideration of this matter is that this afternoon in Dublin our Taoiseach is meeting the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.
(Interruptions.)
Let us have some respect for the leader of the biggest party in the House.
I am ruling that the Leader of the Opposition is out of order.
On what basis is he out of order?
I am ruling him out of order — and he should sit down when the Chair is standing on the basis that it is not in order to question the ruling of the Chair in the House. If the Leader of the Opposition wishes to come to my office he will be very welcome and if he wishes——
(Interruptions.)
——to bring his spokesman on Foreign Affairs with him, he too will be very welcome and I will discuss it there in an orderly manner, but I will treat any further attempt to pursue this here as disorderly.
I will finish by making to you, Sir, a very strong protest about your ruling in this matter and your refusal to hear me on a very valid point of order. When you were on this side of the House I remember frequent occasions when your good self, very able Dáil debater that you are, and the Leader of the Opposition at that time, Deputy FitzGerald, quoted precedents, Standing Orders and various other things to ask that Private Notice Questions be accepted. That happened countless numbers of times in this House. I am sorry that you will not hear me on a perfectly valid, legitimate submission on this matter. It is absolutely deplorable that a Secretary of State for Defence of the British Government should make this unwarranted attack on this country and we in this House——
(Interruptions.)
I will ask Deputy Haughey to resume his seat.
——should not have an opportunity of raising the matter.
I will adjourn the House if Deputy Haughey——
May I submit——
You may not.
On a point of order——
This whole discussion is out of order.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I called on Deputy Gene Fitzgerald to read a Private Notice Question——
On a point of order——
You have to allow a point of order.
On a day that is without precedent in the modern history of this country——
(Interruptions.)
Will Deputy Fitzgerald please resume his seat? I regard this as a deliberate attempt by Deputy Fitzgerald to obstruct the business of this House. I must call on the Deputies concerned not to act like this because it is not in the interest of this House or in keeping with the dignity of this House.
I protest. When Deputy Fitzgerald is finished I will propose that the House adjourn for the day.
I resent the Chair's allegation that I was trying to disrupt this House. I tried to make a point of order but obviously already you had the blinkers on and you were not going to allow it. On a day without precedent in the history of this country there was an attack on Irish soil by a British——
Deputy Fitzgerald will resume his seat.
(Interruptions.)
Deputies
Where is the Taoiseach? Bring him into this House.
(Interruptions.)
A Deputy
The Government are in cahoots with the British.
Deputy Fitzgerald has been given permission to ask a question of the Minister for Industry and Energy concerning 500 jobs in this city. He read that question and then there was this interlude which is preventing the question being answered.
(Interruptions.)
It was not read.
Deputy Fitzgerald was called on to read his question. I am calling him to read it now.
Is there any way the views of this House can be conveyed to the Secretary of State who is in Dublin today about what was said yesterday by Mr. Heseltine.
Of course there is.
Deputies
How?
The Fianna Fáil Whip could have approached the Government Whip. I do not know what would happen then but the matter could have been discussed.
(Interruptions.)
I am warning Deputies I will not tolerate much more of this.
(Dún Laoghaire): Fianna Fáil Deputies ought to be ashamed of themselves. Look at the school children in the Gallery.
The Government would not let them go to school.
Unless Fianna Fáil Deputies allow the Private Notice Question to be taken I will adjourn the House.
I would be very grateful if you would adjourn the House so that the Whips can meet to see whether——
(Interruptions.)
You said the Whips could meet to discuss the matter. I suggest that the House adjourn for ten minutes to enable the Whips to discuss it.
Today we are dealing with a very important Private Notice Question and the Finance Bill, and the business of the House is being obstructed. I appeal to the Leader of the Opposition to co-operate in putting an end to this obstruction.
I am asking for an adjournment of ten minutes so that the Whips can discuss whether there is a way this matter can be raised this evening.
I refuse to adjourn the House on that basis.
You have threatened to adjourn it.
The Leader of the Opposition has proposed the adjournment of this House.
I cannot allow the Chair's ruling to be bullied in this way.
There is no bullying. I have the utmost respect for the Chair but the leader of our party is in somewhat of a dilemma. Please bear with me for a minute.
This is obviously an organised attempt to obstruct the Chair.
(Interruptions.)
It is not organised.
The House stands adjourned until 4.05 p.m. and I trust when we come back the business of the House will be allowed to continue.
Sitting suspended at 3.45 p.m. and resumed at 4.05 p.m.
I am appealing to Members of the House to allow the business of the House to continue in accordance with the Order of Business announced this morning, and I am asking Deputy Fitzgerald if he wishes to ask his Private Notice Question.