asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will extend free travel facilities within the Republic to certain categories of persons living in Northern Ireland who would have the same qualifications as people living in the Republic except that relating to residence; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Free Travel Facilities.
11.
The free travel scheme applies to all residents of the State who are aged 66 or over, to blind persons aged 18 or over and to persons receiving a social welfare-type payment as a permanently incapacitated person. Extension of the scheme on the lines proposed by the Deputy would have very significant cost implications and would not be possible in present circumstances.
In this age of co-operation, with all good intentions toward a better relationship between North and South, would the Minister not consider that it would be a gesture on our part to extend the free travel facilities to people who fall into that category but who just happen to live outside the jurisdiction, that is the jurisdiction that on this occasion is ignored by the Constitution but which would be on other occasions recognised by the Constitution? Without getting too political about it — and I did not even intend to mention that point — does the Minister not consider that it would be a gesture on the part of the Dublin Government to people living north of the Border in that age group, when they come south if they could travel the same way as their age group in the Republic? I cannot see how it would cost anything extra because the buses are travelling anyway.
What the Deputy has said is appreciated and borne in mind. But the decision in relation to this request is based on the practicalities of implementing it as well as the significant cost factor at present. It was agreed in principle by the then Government in October 1981 to extend free travel facilities to elderly and disabled Northern Ireland people travelling within the State. That proposal was discussed with transport companies and a plan was submitted to the then Government in March 1982 but that proposal was not proceeded with. The proposed extension is estimated to cost £3.4 million in a full year at current rates.
CIE are costing the State an enormous amount of money at present and it will not cost us one extra penny to extend this facility. For the information of the Minister — and for the benefit of the House — I might say that this was one of the requests specifically put forward by our separated brethren, as it were, people from the minority community on the island of Ireland but the majority community in Northern Ireland when they attended the Forum. If the Minister of State wants to put himself on record as implementing something that the New Ireland Forum is talking about or is considering, I would ask him to reconsider the position and suggest to the civil servants in his Department to stop being book worms or bureaucrats and start using a bit of common sense——
Would the Deputy address himself to a question?
Would the Minister reconsider the position in view of the plea I am putting forward? It would be a gesture on our part which would be deeply appreciated by both communities in Northern Ireland?
The matter has been very effectively considered since October 1981. I can assure the Deputy that it will continue to receive the fullest consideration.
Could the Minister tell the House again the costing arrived at in relation to that particular proposal? Can he say how that figure was arrived at because I agree with Deputy Harte that this could be implemented at a very low cost to the Exchequer. Indeed it would generate a lot of goodwill in relation to the communities in Border areas.
In 1982 there were some 40,000 people over 66 years of age from Northern Ireland who travelled to and stayed in the Republic for more than 24 hours. Allowing for the fact that accompanying spouse would be covered, the cost of the proposed extension is estimated at £3.4 million at current rates. That does not take into account — because there is no information available — disabled visitors, so that that would constitute a further addition.
Is the Minister of State telling us that it would cost over £3 million for travel within this part of the island, or is he including in that travel in the North as well? Would he not accept that it would be in the interests of all the people on this island if there were easier travel facilities available to the elderly to travel both northwards and southwards as they wished? Has this proposal been considered by the Government since March 1982?
There would not be any disagreement about the fact it would be in the interests of everybody but there is a cost factor involved and the fact also that there are other aspects and other pressures to extend the free travel which, in some people's minds might be of a higher priority, such as to the widows or widowers of the holders of free travel passes who lose their concession when their spouse dies. That is just one but there are others for which one can always make a very deserving case. All of these extensions are always being considered but they must be considered in the light of the available resources and their cost factor. The cost factor, estimated and based on 40,000 people in 1982 who visited and stayed in the Republic for more than 24 hours, was how that earlier figure was arrived at.