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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 21 Oct 1987

Vol. 374 No. 4

1988 Estimates for Public Services and 1988 Public Capital Programme: Motion.

The following motion was moved by the Taoiseach on Tuesday, 20 October 1987:
That Dáil Éireann takes note of the 1988 Estimates for the Public Services (Abridged Version) and of the 1988 Summary Public Capital Programme.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 3.
After "Programme" to add "and Dáil Éireann notes in that under the terms of the Estimates, major reductions in the level of public services will occur, and will, therefore, undertake an in depth examination of the Estimates as presented to it by the Government with a view to allowing those members objecting to individual proposals to put forward fully costed alternative proposals which will yield a similar saving in this and subsequent years, and for this purpose directs the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to immediately present amendments to Standing Orders governing Estimates debates to allow—
(a) amendments to subheads in individual estimates to reduce the amount provided.
(b) amendments to the subheads in individual estimates to increase the amount provided if the amendment contains within it a proposal to reduce another subhead, in the estimate, or in the same group of estimates, by the same amount thereby ensuring that the overall provisions of the estimate for this and subsequent years are not increased overall,
(c) amendments to increase provisions for particular subheads, as set out at subparagraph (b) above shall not have effect if, within two weeks of their being passed by the Dáil the Minister for Finance certifies, for reasons stated, to a Committee of Public Expenditure that the proposal designed to achieve savings to compensate for the proposed increase will not in fact achieve the savings claimed, and
(d) where the Minister for Finance makes a certification within the terms of subparagraph (c) above he shall, if requested, give oral evidence in public before a Committee of Public Expenditure to explain the reasons for his certification."
(Deputy Noonan,Limerick East.)

The publication of the Estimates this year in early October is a further illustration of this Government's determination to take decisive action to tackle the problems facing the country.

Nobody at this stage should be in any doubt that the country is in a very serious economic situation, and strong and decisive leadership is required to redress this. Our enormous debt problem will put major constraints on us for a number of years ahead and must be solved if we are to have any prospect of sustained recovery and growth in the future. The cost of servicing the national debt is almost £2 billion a year which is roughly equal to the entire revenue from PAYE in a year and substantially more than the total cost of social welfare services to the taxpayer. There is no way we can continue to divert such a huge proportion of Government revenue to servicing a debt of this size. At the same time there is no easy way out of the problem and there are no instant solutions.

The broad thrust of the Government's strategy has been accepted by most economic commentators and by the major political parties. The framework outlined in the Estimates shows that the Government are committed to action to put the economy back on the road to recovery. The programme agreed with the national partners embraces a wide range of issues including pay, tax reform, employment and the social services. It represents a milestone on the road to national recovery. At the same time the Government have examined in detail every facet of public expenditure. Never before has such a detailed examination been undertaken. Never before has it been done with such determination and vigour. More importantly, never before has it been done by a Government who were prepared to take action, but this is a caring Government. It would have been easy for us to decide to wield the axe indiscriminately. That would have avoided the need for close examination and scrutiny. It would have avoided delving into and understanding the wide variety of services the State provides and why it provides them. Over the last few months we have carried out a careful, systematic review of expenditure and have taken firm decisions backed up by positive action. The caring approach of this Government can clearly be seen in my own area of social welfare. I would like to turn now to issues of importance in the social welfare area.

There will be a number of very major developments in the social welfare system during the period immediately ahead. Perhaps the most significant change will be the extension of social insurance cover to self-employed persons, including farmers. This is something which everybody accepts as necessary. It has been talked about for years but now it is being done. The inclusion of the self-employed in the social insurance system will bring about a much greater degree of equity in the way the system is financed. It will also reduce the burden on the Exchequer of financing non-contributory pensions which will be phased out with the extension of social insurance coverage to all of the working population.

The National Pensions Board at my request are at present considering the most appropriate scheme of social insurance coverage for the self-employed and will be reporting to me shortly. I do not want to pre-empt in any way what the board may say to me. Clearly the amount which we can pay out by way of pensions to the self-employed will depend on the amount which can be raised in contributions. My concern will be to achieve a system in which all self-employed people contribute towards the cost of social insurance in an equitable way based on their real ability to pay. I will be bringing my proposals to the Government in this matter before the end of the year.

Another major development which is being planned is the transfer of responsibility for short-term sickness payments to employers. This will reduce the duplication which exists at present where employees who are out sick are entitled to sick pay from their employers as well as disability benefit from the Department of Social Welfare. It will also enable the payments concerned to be taxed in the same way as other income and, by giving direct responsibility to employers, provide the scope for more effective control on absenteeism.

I would like to inform the House of a development that will be of particular concern to social welfare recipients in the next few weeks. As Deputies will remember, last November saw the full implementation of the EC directive on equal treatment for men and women in matters of social security. One effect of this was that certain families were adversely affected. The whole concept of dependency in the social welfare code was changed. As a result a woman could be regarded as dependent on her husband only if she was not in receipt of a social welfare payment, or was earning less than £50 per week from employment. People who were previously regarded as dependants were no longer so regarded and adult dependant increases were no longer payable for them. Similarly increases for children could only be paid at half rate if a person's spouse was in employment or on social welfare benefit.

Because of the hardship that was caused, alleviating payments were made in these circumstances. It was the intention of the previous Government that these payments would be for "a maximum period of one year" and would cease on 17 November this year. However, the Government are conscious of the hardship that would be caused to these families by ceasing the payments abruptly and have decided that these alleviating payments will continue beyond the middle of November next. I am seeking the best approach to phasing out these payments and the Government will be considering my proposals on this matter in the light of the financial situation. Meanwhile the alleviating payments will continue at their present rates until the end of the year.

Returning now to the actual Estimates for 1988, they contain a provision amounting to £1.61 billion in respect of social welfare, but this is not the complete picture. It does not reflect the full extent of the moneys distributed through the various social welfare schemes and services that have been built up over the years. Social welfare expenditure in 1988 will amount to over £2.64 billion when account is taken of the income collected by way of PRSI contributions from employers and employees. Expenditure on services for the elderly now stands at an estimated £752 million or 30 per cent of overall social welfare expenditure in 1988. Expenditure on unemployment services will be an estimated £704 million or 28 per cent of overall expenditure in 1988.

The Estimate represents a net increase of £12.7 million on the 1987 Estimate. This does not include any provision for increases in the rates of social welfare payments or any other improvements which the Government may decide to introduce next year. In a situation of restricted resources and economic difficulty, the task of developing the social welfare system is particulary formidable. However, the Government are committed to maintaining the overall value of social welfare benefits and will consider special increases for those receiving the lowest payments within the constraints of available resources.

The Estimates embody a number of changes which will help rationalise aspects of the social welfare system and tighten controls to prevent abuse. The social welfare system exists to help people who are in need. Our systems must be effective in meeting those needs. Any leakages out of the system through inefficiencies or abuse lessen the amounts that are available for distribution to those in need. Some of the measures that I will be taking are designed to ensure that the resources at my disposal are more effectively targeted to those genuinely in need. The important thing is, however, that the basic fabric of the social welfare system has been maintained, every scheme has been protected and some have been extended. Overall the Government have ensured that the burden of meeting our problems will not be laid on those who are dependent on social welfare payments.

The Estimates take account of the changes in schemes that have been announced in the past few weeks. The free fuel schemes have been rationalised and extended and 210,000 people now qualify for a free fuel allowance. This includes 30,000 recipients of unemployment assistance whom we have brought into the scheme for the first time. The estimated cost of the scheme in 1988 is £28.2 million.

Another development for which provision has been made in the Estimates and which can only be regarded as an historic achievement for the Government has been the extension of the treatment benefits scheme to dependent spouses of insured workers. From Monday this week the dependent spouses of insured workers are entitled to claim dental and optical benefits under the social welfare treatment benefits scheme on the same basis as insured persons. This extension of the scheme will benefit up to 330,000 people, mainly women working in the home. Over the last number of years there have been many calls for this vital service for women who work in the home. Many promises have been made over the years about this much needed service. We have delivered on our commitment and dependent spouses are now entitled to these benefits. From the reaction I have been getting it is clear that there is widespread support for this extension.

The opticians who provide optical services for insured workers have readily agreed to the extension and I must place on record my appreciation for their support. I wish also to place on record my appreciation of the dentists throughout the country who have agreed to treat dependent spouses despite the fact that there has been a campaign waged by the Irish Dental Association over the last few months to prevent them from doing so. This campaign is based on the mistaken belief that this extension is not good value for money because the Dental Association claim that it helps the better off. This is just not true.

The facts of the matter are that this is an insurance-based scheme, financed out of PRSI contributions. It should not be confused with means tested schemes operated by the health boards, funded entirely by the Exchequer. Entitlements are built up over a number of years by the payment of contributions. It is also a fact that while the scheme is not means tested it is largely availed of by those in the lower income groups. Ninety per cent of those who benefited from the scheme last year had incomes below the average industrial wage. Many of the new beneficiaries will be dependent spouses of unemployed persons, old age pensioners and those out of work through illness.

The Government have decided to continue the successful Jobsearch programme which has been operating on a nation-wide basis since April last. It is designed to assist the long-term unemployed in their search for work by providing advice and, in many cases, placement in a Manpower scheme, AnCO training scheme or Jobsearch course. Already, over 102,000 people have been interviewed, as part of the programme. So far almost 3,000 persons have got jobs; some 20,000 have been placed in Manpower schemes such as the social employment scheme or AnCO courses. Another 8,000 persons have left the register when offered the chance of a job or a place on a training course.

As Deputies will see, a substantial amount has been provided in the 1988 Estimates for the continuation of the pilot schemes for the unemployed which my Department have been operating for the past year, namely, the part-time job allowance and the educational opportunities schemes. In the face of the overwhelming problems that social welfare dependents are faced with today, particularly those who are unemployed, a positive and dynamic response is essential. What I am trying to ensure is that our social welfare system is more flexible and responsive to people's needs.

The educational opportunities scheme gives unemployed people over age 25 the opportunity to go back to school to complete a certificate type course. There have been many calls over the years for this type of "second chance" for older unemployed people, many of whom had to leave school early for various reasons. I am delighted with the success of the programme so far, since 9 or 18 per cent of the original participants are now in full-time jobs and another two are exploring the possibility of starting their own business. Another two participants are now self-employed on a part-time basis and hoping to build this into full-time employment.

I am convinced that all these jobs can be attributed to the confidence and discipline which participation in the course gave.

This quote, from a participant in the Limerick class, sums up the personal benefits he has gained from the course.

I no longer feel unemployed. My confidence is being restored and my self-esteem has risen. I have become more relaxed and I have a much more positive outlook on life. I can keep pace with my children's education and help them when I can.

I am convinced that a scheme on these lines is worthwhile and I am glad that we have been able to set aside the necessary resources to plan the continuation of this scheme next year. I hope to be announcing details of this in the near future.

Another scheme that I am particularly interested in is the part time job allowance scheme which allows unemployed persons to work up to 24 hours a week and still retain a basic income maintenance payment from my Department. This scheme operates in 17 different centres throughout the country. The Government have provided for the expansion of this scheme in 1988 and I expect to be announcing details in the near future.

The question of the abuse of social welfare schemes has been the subject of extensive media coverage in recent times. I am aware that there are areas of the social welfare system which are vulnerable to the risk of fraud. This is inevitable considering the enormous scale of the social welfare system. About £7 million is paid out every day.

We all accept that the vast majority of those claiming benefit are entitled to their payments and it is my responsibility to see that these legitimate claimants are provided with a speedy, accessible service, while at the same time ensuring that the service is not easily abused. This year special measures were directed towards suspect claims so that we could get best use out of our resources. The following are some examples of our successes in detecting abuse in the first half of the year: of 4,600 claimants called for special control interviews to review their entitlement to unemployment payments, 1,100 left the register, 600 of them voluntarily. Of 3,500 unemployment claims investigated by our special investigation unit following allegations by members of the public of working and drawing the dole, 1,062 were disallowed. Of 9,000 inquiries sent out to employers to check if the claimant was working or on holiday leave while claiming disability benefit, 700 cases of possible abuse were revealed. Of 60,000 disability benefit claimants referred to a medical referee 14,000 had their claims ended because they were found capable of work (12,000) or voluntarily ceased to claim. As a result of PRSI surveys of employers, arrears of £2.3 million have been reported to the Revenue Commissioners.

Due to the success of these measures the Government have decided to pursue an intensive campaign against fraud and abuse. I am taking a number of initiatives which will bring a new focus of attention on employers, and I will be seeking specific sanctions against employers who collude in social welfare abuse.

I will be focusing special attention on industries which we have found to be prone to social welfare fraud and abuse. These will include the security and building industries. I will also be insisting that where State and semi-State bodies or local authorities use commercial firms, they ensure that the employees of those firms are all registered and paid up for social welfare. I want to ensure that operatives on the ground are also in the books for PRSI.

My Department have power to instittute court proceedings against employers who fail to co-operate with or who obstruct social welfare officers in carrying out their investigations. I will be exercising these powers to the fullest extent.

Where other forms of abuse of social welfare schemes by employers are detected, such as collusion with employees in the fraudulent receipt of sickness and unemployment payments, my Department also have power to institute court proceedings against employers. I am determined that these powers will be vigorously used.

There are often technical difficulties in proving that the employers actions, or in many cases omissions, contributed to the frauds. I am arranging that these loopholes will be examined so that they can be closed off and that employers who are not operating the full PRSI system will not escape the consequences.

A number of changes to individual schemes are being made to help achieve better targeting of resources. In adopting these measures, the Government are conscious of the need to ensure that existing claimants are not adversely affected and, consequently any changes will only apply to new claimants from specified dates.

In the disability benefit area, two changes are being made, which are aimed at lessening potential abuse. First, claimants of disability benefit who have been in receipt of maternity allowance will be required to wait three days before entitlement to disability benefit commences. This is already the case in relation to people who have been in employment. Secondly, the number of paid contributions required for continued entitlement to disability benefit after 12 months will be increased from 208 to 260, with effect from January, 1988. This measure is designed to ensure that only those who have five years paid contributions will be entitled to long-term disability benefit.

In April, 1981, I introduced a new maternity allowance scheme for women in employment. The old general maternity allowance scheme was continued for those who did not qualify immediately under the new scheme. Two changes are now being made to the old scheme. From January 1988 entitlement under the old general scheme will be restricted to those women who have at least 13 paid contributions in the governing contribution year. This measure is designed to ensure that only women who have a recent attachment to the labour force will qualify for this benefit in future. Women in employment will still be entitled to the allowance on the same basis as heretofore. Pay-related benefit, which is paid as a supplement to maternity allowance is being discontinued under the old scheme as and from April, 1988. Women in employment will not be affected by this measure. Measures are also being taken to rationalise certain features of the social welfare system and to bring aspects of the system up to date. One area which is in particular need of rationalisation is that of means testing for social assistance schemes. I would expect proposals in this area to be ready early in 1988.

I am also taking a number of measures in the area of supplementary welfare allowances to rationalise and update the present arrangements. I have already taken steps to rationalise the footwear scheme which operates under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme. I am also examining the area of payments towards rent and mortgage under the scheme. At present people applying for rent supplements are required as a minimum to meet the first £1.50 of rent payments. This limit has applied since 1977 and clearly needs to be updated. The Government have decided therefore that the limit should now be raised to £3. This increase is considerably less than the increase in the CPI over the period since 1977. Furthermore the increase will only apply to new claimants for rent supplement and existing recipients will not be affected. The necessary regulations to give effect to the increase will be made shortly.

Another area where a review is being undertaken is the area of credited contributions under the social insurance system. Credits are awarded at present in a very wide variety of circumstances and can be a significant factor in determining entitlement to benefit. On the other hand the number of paid contributions required to qualify for payments can be quite low. The review which is being carried out will examine the whole relationship between paid and credited contributions under the social insurance system to remove anomalies and achieve a degree of rationalisation in this area.

I am also looking at areas of the system where there is duplication in entitlements. Apart from special circumstances it has always been a generally accepted principle that a person should not be entitled to receive more than one benefit or pension at the same time. There are at present a number of areas where overlaps of this kind can occur and these are being examined to see where changes should be made. Already the Government have decided that the present practice whereby a working widow who is not liable to pay PRSI, can receive in addition to her widow's pension, disability benefit at half rate if she goes out sick, should be discontinued. A similar overlap can occur as between widow's pension and unemployment benefit but unemployment benefit is of limited duration and the same considerations do not apply in that case. Accordingly, the payment of half rate unemployment benefit with widow's pension will continue. The ending of the overlap between widow's pension and disability benefit and of any other overlaps which may be identified, will only affect new claimants and existing claimants will not be affected.

It is not enough to have a wide variety of schemes catering for a wide variety of needs if they are not delivered to the client quickly, efficiently and with due regard to his or her dignity and rights.

I am pleased to say that we are well on the way to developing a whole system, particularly the strategy of localisation. A key element of that strategy is the facility which I have called the one stop shop. The object is to provide a comprehensive service to social welfare clients by bringing together the personnel and agencies involved to meet all the needs of the client quickly and in a more co-ordinated manner at the one location.

In addition I have recently introduced a nation-wide scheme for the payment of unemployment assistance without an immediate means test to certain categories of claimants. This frees the community welfare officer and the social welfare officer for those cases that need investigation.

Central to all of these developments is the continuing development of technology within my Department. We are developing and extending our computer network to meet our requirements.

The only major area of work not serviced by computer is the unemployment benefit and assistance payments system in the employment exchanges. The extension of computerisation to employment exchanges is a major task and one to which I will be devoting considerable resources in the future.

Another recent development which I would like to mention and which broke new ground for localised services was the introduction in the Cork Employment Exchange of a remote entry facility for medical certificates. As a result disability benefit claimants in the Cork area can have their medical certificates keyed into the computer system without the need to send them to headquarters. This, of course, greatly increases efficiency locally and cuts out delays and queries.

The whole thrust of policy in the social welfare area will be to make the system more effective and more efficient. My approach and that of the Government in the context of the Estimates campaign has been to ensure that the less well off are protected, to direct resources where they are most needed, to spread the burden of financing the system in the fairest way possible, to make the schemes more flexible in addressing the needs of clients, to improve efficiency in the delivery of services, to reduce the scope for abusing the schemes and to pursue those responsible for abusing them. I believe that the measures which have been taken represent a significant step towards a social welfare system which is in tune with the needs of our society today.

In conclusion, I would like to make it very clear that in providing £1.46 billion in these Estimates and a total of £2.64 billion when the income from PRSI is taken into consideration, the Government are maintaining all of our schemes and all of our systems. Indeed we are extending some of our schemes and at a time when in other countries these schemes are often contracting and being reduced.

As Minister for Social Welfare, I believe that these Estimates and the package that has been prepared by the Government truly reflect a caring approach on the part of the Government, an approach whereby the real positions and incomes of those on social welfare are being protected at this particularly difficult time.

In the course of the pre-budget discussions and eventually in the budget it will be our objective to target our resources in favour of those who are in greatest need within the full social welfare system. I am sure Deputies will recognise the need to do that. I hope that when we have considered the various possibilities in that direction they will be happy with the direction we are taking in strengthening particularly those people at the lowest level in our system.

We have a great challenge at this time because we do not have readily available the additional resources we might like to have. It is very easy to say we should have this extra scheme or that extra scheme, but it is quite an achievement just to maintain our schemes and to maintain the support which the elderly and unemployed have had in recent years and which in the plan for national recovery is guaranteed in the years ahead.

We have some major undertakings. We are bringing in the PRSI system for the self-employed which is a major undertaking involving much time and work as does the transfer of disability benefit. The Department is one that has a particularly high standard among its civil servants. I would like to give due credit to them at this time in connection with these Estimates. Their efficiency has been quite breathtaking. Their standard is of the very highest level for the public service or any other service. I am very glad that the beneficiaries of social welfare have serving them civil servants who are so dedicated, so competent and capable, so effective and efficient.

We all have a great deal more to do. I believe that once we have managed to computerise the employment exchanges, a task which we have already begun in Dublin, we will become considerably more efficient.

I recommend to the House the steps which have been taken by the Government. In noting the Estimates in total I would ask the House to note particularly how strongly and how carefully those in greatest need have been protected by the Government at this difficult time.

The Government, first, should be congratulated on getting the Estimates out in such good time. The public servants who worked so hard during the summer should be congratulated on the work they have done in this regard. That is the last word of congratulations that this Estimate will get from The Workers' Party.

These Estimates were a tremendous shock to everybody, even those who were expecting very severe cuts. They are an attack on the living standards of workers and of the unemployed, an attack on the standards of education and health of the very people who have paid their taxes for these services.

The Minister for the Environment seems to enjoy implementing enormous cuts because he comes in beaming with new cuts every day and serves them up to his master. There was a magnificient £92 million cut in the Department of the Environment which indicates a determination to privatise practically all the local authority services, with a consequent rundown of standards and increases in costs to the public. Perhaps the greatest indictment of the Estimates is the cut of £300,000 or 23 per cent in the miserable allocation to the antipoverty programmes at a time of rapidly growing poverty.

The main argument used to justify this latest attack on the living standards of workers and the unemployed is the need to create the right environment for business investment. Put bluntly, this means telling the capitalists that they can make bigger profits and pay less taxes. Trying to coax the rich to put their money to work is a waste of time. They prefer to put their money into bank accounts in the Isle of Man and their investments are confined to the crude manifestations of wealth and affluence.

Our capitalists have got hundreds of millions of pounds in grants and subsidies over the last couple of decades, and what have we to show for it? We are the only industrial country in the world with hardly any domestically owned international trading companies. They grabbed the money and lined their pockets during the good times — but when the going got tough, the rich got going.

The savage cuts announced last week expose the bankruptcy of Irish capitalism and of the parties that represent it — Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Progressive Democrats. The current crisis in the public finances reflects the failure of the Irish private sector to industrialise this economy, to create wealth and to keep the economy going. We have seen it all before.

In the last five years of the fifties nearly half a million men and women left Ireland convinced that it was doomed and unwilling to suffer any further torments that the Irish capitalists and their political mouthpieces might devise for those who remained behind. The fifties were also years of savage cuts in public expenditure with the poor bearing the brunt of the savagery.

It took the initiative of a few civil servants to stop the rot. By opening up the economy to international capital they threw a lifeline to Irish capitalism and saved the necks of that crop of conservative politicians in those days. American capital, swollen by wartime expansion and hungry for fresh outlets ran right through this open door. As Irish workers organised to win better wages and conditions, many foreign companies opted for softer targets in the sweatshops of South Korea and Taiwan, exposing once again the failure of our Irish capitalists to industrialise the economy of this country.

No cost was spared as Government after Government tried to "grow" their own native industrialists. Our baby capitalists were housed in expensively furnished State nurseries, kept warm with taxpayers' money, nourished on a generous diet of hand-outs and protected by a very close relationship with both parents, the Fianna Fáil and Coalition Governments. But as soon as they took their first steps into the harsh world of competitive capitalism they fell into the arms of the liquidator or they took the first plane to Switzerland or the Bahamas with their workers' PRSI contributions in their brief cases. They left behind them a trail of debt and misery unpaid taxes and the longest dole queues in Europe. This was Irish private enterprise.

Blame for the present crisis in the public finances must be laid fairly and squarely on the shoulders of those who, despite costly pampering and support, failed to deliver the goods. Let us make no mistake about it. If the goods had been delivered in terms of gross national product and jobs there would be no financial crisis. The high ratio of debt to gross national product is caused by the low levels of growth in gross national product and by the high levels of unemployment.

Our gross domestic product is only 64 per cent of the European average. We will not get the growth required by relying on a plethora of small Irish companies or on the half dozen big Irish companies who invest their profits abroad. Neither can we cut our way out of the crisis. That approach failed in the fifties and it has failed everywhere every time it has been tried. The Workers' Party have no objection to cutting grants for farmers to build beef and butter mountains. We cannot afford it and the workers of Europe cannot afford it but we do object to dismantling the scientific services that could put agriculture on the road to creating thousands of jobs in the food processing industry. We would not object if the hand-outs to private companies were abolished thus saving a billion pounds but gutting the agencies involved in job creation is irresponsible and shortsighted.

The sweeping cuts in education, health and local services are savage in their extent and criminal in their intent. It is a political crime to make those who can least afford it bear the brunt of the price that must be paid for bad government by Fianna Fáil and the Coalition over the past couple of decades. It is particularly vicious because, once again, those who can afford it, those who have done well out of the so-called recession, are getting off scot-free.

For workers and their families, for the unemployed, for the poor and the sick to have to suffer for the crimes of the whiz kids must make some members on the Fianna Fáil benches cringe in their seats. They know there is a better way but they will not grasp the nettle. They have not got the guts to tell the stockbrokers, the cheap labour bosses, the Stock Exchange playboys and the fly-by-night entrepreneurs, the tax dodgers, the beef and butter barons, the bankers, the nominee account holders and the yuppie economists that they will not do their bidding, that they will not toe the line of financial rectitude, when it means that those who have to tighten their belts are those with nothing.

They are stupidly competing with the yuppies' own parties, the Progressive Democrats and Fine Gael, for the allegiance of the fat cat 10 per cent of the population who are used to dictating the economic policies of the State. They are heeding their well-heeled articulate clamour for savage measures that will protect their class, and they are ignoring the silent suffering of those who believed their promises last February. They are living dangerously when they listen to those who put their cheques in their election bank account and ignore those who put their votes in the ballot box. It is not the job of The Workers' Party to remind them of the populist roots of their founders, but it is our job to make sure they pay the price for turning their backs on those who put their trust in their pledges not to hurt the old, the weak and the sick. They should not confuse the chorus of approval from the IFA, the CII, and the FUE with the mandate they got to stop the worst excesses of the Fine Gael-Labour Coalition they replaced.

Pandering to the monetarists may guarantee them a majority in this House, but it will not spare them the wrath of the people they deceived when, sooner or later, they will have to face the music. With the support of Fine Gael and the PDs they can halve the number of nappies for incontinent victims of spina bifida; they can squeeze another half a dozen children into overcrowded classrooms and they can double the length of working class queues for life and death operations, but can they look the people who voted for them straight in the eye and tell them that they did not lie through their teeth? The politics of the stroke have served them well in the past, but it is a long road that has no bend. Opposing monetarism at an election and inflicting it on the people within six months is one stroke too many.

Instead of cutting a way out of the crisis, the country must be allowed to produce its way to prosperity. A production plan as envisaged by The Workers' Party and on the scale required to do the job involves bold and courageous decisions. It is based on the kind of vision that built four sugar factories in Carlow, Mallow, Thurles and Tuam and put them into production within a year of the decision to let a State company do the job where private enterprise had failed. Private enterprise has failed the Irish people now and only those blinded by an unshakeable faith in capitalist dogma cannot see the writing on the wall. The Workers' Party are not advocating the nationalisation of private industry because there is little there worth nationalising, that is, apart from the banks, of course. That is why the shareowning class want to get their hands on State companies like Irish Life which took in over £500 million in 1986. They want the ESB, Aer Lingus, Bord na Móna and Irish Life on the Stock Exchange so they can make a quick killing and then stand idly by while £500 million perhaps is wiped off their value overnight. They do not care that the result of their greedy profit hunting and gambling with the people's wealth leads to their victims standing shivering at the end of the dole queue.

We are not advocating that more money be spent trying to lure private investment into productive enterprise, wealth generation and job creation. To put any more trust in a system under which the other day £33,000 million could be wiped off the value of companies on the Stock Exchange, including newly privatised State companies within a few minutes of opening, is just unforgiveable. Present and future generations will not forgive those who do it. It runs in the teeth of all the evidence and is in direct conflict with our experience to date. We do not believe in pouring good money after bad. Pragmatism rather than ideology demands that we change direction. The Workers' Party have been arguing for this change of policy for the past 15 years. We find the Labour Party's preoccupation with welfare economics well intentioned but totally inadequate to the task that confronts us. It is not sufficient to talk about redistribution of wealth. Socialists must address the fundamental question of how best to create wealth. Production is our priority.

Ten years ago, when the Fianna Fáil Government which then included PD super-monetarists like Deputies O'Malley, Molloy and O'Donoghue, went on their "borrowing for spending' spree, we warned about the havoc that would result from throwing more money at the private sector in the vain hope that jobs would be created and the economy developed. Our warnings fell on deaf ears and the capitalists had a ball. Since then the chickens have come home to roost and the monetarists in Fianna Fáil and the super-monetarists in Fine Gael and the PDs agree that services to the public, that is, essential services, must be savaged in order to rectify their collective blunders. The only difference now between a monetarist and a super-monetarist is that the supers want a wage freeze as well as the savage cuts.

Throughout the capitalist world, but especially in the United States and Britain, conservative politicians, New Right economists and the most reactionary elements of the ruling class are making a determined assault on the trade union movement. This attack, which is aimed at weakening or destroying trade unions, is an essential part of the capitalist strategy for rolling back the reforms achieved by workers through their unions. Again the argument used to justify this latest offensive against workers' rights is the need to create a better and freer environment for business investment. Put bluntly, this means that the bosses want to increase their profits by weakening the ability of workers to resist exploitation. While there is nothing new in this approach, it has been given a new lease of life by mass unemployment. The misery of unemployment for millions of workers is seen as an opportunity for bigger profits for thousands of employers.

The trade unions therefore are to be congratulated on squeezing some small concessions out of the Government. Sniping at the ICTU by those who are often described as the political wing of the unions seems to be motivated more by political begrudgery and opportunism than by any proven concern for workers and the unemployed. I am sure that the unions have no illusions about the ease with which Fianna Fáil could do another U-turn on their commitments, especially on their targets for job creation. I want to put it on the record that The Workers' Party will not let a day go past without calling on Fianna Fáil to account, in terms of their jobs promises, both inside and outside this House. We will want to know when the jobs are coming, where they are being created and how they are to be financed. I would make an earnest appeal to the Labour Party leadership to stop squabbling with the unions and to join us in this campaign to make Fianna Fáil deliver on their promises.

While we welcome Fianna Fáil's concession to the ICTU to lift the restriction on commercial State companies, something which we have advocated for a long time, we consider this an idle gesture unless the State sector is given the finance necessary to undertake the job of industrialising the country. Central to The Workers' Party strategy for economic growth is a massive programme of industrialisation initiated and directed by the State with our successful State companies in the driving seat. We want a key role for the State in developing large indigenous companies capable of trading internationally. We see the Sugar Company and Erin Foods leading an industrial revolution in the food processing sector. The new State forestry company must pioneer a profitable wood and timber industry. Telecom Éireann, CARA, the IIRS and others must ensure that the technological revolution does not pass us by. Airmotive, Bord na Móna, the ESB and the engineering division of the Sugar Company must be allowed to put Irish engineering on the world map. Of course, this will cost money but we will not be throwing money at the economy and hoping against hope that the profit hunters will create jobs instead of fat profits for themselves. We are demanding that the Government use the State companies as a direct instrument of economic policy and industrial expansion.

Much of the money needed can be got from the tax dodgers, the well-heeled whiz kids who move money around like confetti at a Smurfit wedding. Some people have feathered their nests out of this recession and it is high time a few of their feathers were ruffled. The money is out there: look at the cars, look at the mansions, look at the gear, look at the life-styles, look at the black hole merchants, look at the ostentatious displays of wealth and privilege by those who demand that the poor and the weak should suffer so that they can live in the style to which they have become accustomed. We all know that there are plenty of people in this country who do not have to think twice about spending twice as much on one might out as an unemployed family have to live on for a week. The PDs are the only people who have to move into Ballymun for a week to find this out.

The infant mortality rate among the offspring of unskilled manual workers is three times higher than among those of middle class professional parents according to Dr. Joseph Robbins, Assistant Secretary at the Department of Health. He said that a report due to be published shortly will show that in 1984 the death rate for young babies in the higher professional class was 5.42 per 1,000 births compared with 18.55 per 1,000 births among unskilled workers. I am quite sure that the death rate per 1,000 births among unemployed people in 1987 is much higher than that.

Since May of this year as a result of the Taoiseach's cutback policies pre-natal care which was provided by the Coombe Hospital to health clinics in the Dublin West constituency have had to be cut off. This of course will drive up the death rate of babies and mothers in working class areas. I have not heard a squeak from SPUC, the Society for the Protection of the Unborn Child, about this scandal. They are more concerned with when life begins than with how life is lived. In this they are similar to the American evangelists and fundamentalists who were referred to by Declan Kiberd in his article in The Irish Times of yesterday which was headed “New Deal gives way to Raw Deal”. He quoted the historian Robert McElvaine as saying in relation to the American Government: “This Government's concern for life begins at conception and ends at birth”. Our Government's concern does not even go that far.

Let me say the unspeakable truth in the midst of the present consensus across the three capitalist parties for financial rectitude. I want to challenge the present "agreement" that there must be no more borrowing. If it is necessary for industrialisation to borrow money, so be it. Money spent on a serious and disciplined plan for industrialisation, firmly controlled and directed by the State in the interests of the people, is money well spent. It is ten times better than money lying idle in the banks, while the economy slides deeper and deeper into recession, but this time let the State and not the banks dictate the terms.

Borrowing money to throw at the private sector in an indiscriminate fashion is a criminal act. Squeezing the poor to create the right environment for business is a foolish and futile policy which has failed in the past and is bound to fail again. The increased output and employment that would result from a bold and radical industrialisation plan would quickly sort out the national debt. If the present policies are to be continued no amount of cutting, however savage, will tackle the underlying cause of the crisis. An industrialisation programme, spearheaded by our State companies, constitutes the first and most important step on the road to prosperity and a secure future for all our people.

We have no confidence in this Government. Therefore we will be supporting the vote of no confidence in them. We believe they are in fact confidence tricksters who got to power on working class votes got by false pretences. I hope the Programme for National Recovery is not another confidence trick.

One of the commitments contained in that document we will be monitoring very closely is that of maintaining the present value of social welfare payments. I did not hear all of the speech of the Minister for Social Welfare so he may have referred to the matter I am about to mention. In particular we will be monitoring the Government's statement that they intend to maintain the present value of social welfare payments. We expect that this means a commitment to maintain the present cushion payment of up to £20 per week, in some cases, against the effects of the implementation of the provisions of the equality legislation introduced by the Coalition Government this time last year. The maintenance of the value of social welfare payments involves the continuation of this cushion payment. Unless the Minister for Social Welfare said so today, as far as we are aware there has not been any commitment so far in this regard but we will know within the next few weeks. We will be monitoring that matter carefully to ascertain how sincere are the Government in the commitments outlined in their Programme for National Recovery. The budget will be the next occasion afforded us to ascertain any such clear commitment on the part of the Government.

Their elimination of £3.7 million for national youth services in their Estimates, when viewed along with the remarks of the Minister for Foreign Affairs in regard to emigration, constitutes a clear indication of where this Government stand in relation to youth. They have eliminated totally any Exchequer funding for national youth services along with up to 200 full-time personnel involved in youth activities throughout the country. The Government expect that youth services be maintained out of a lottery. That is no commitment on the part of any Government. Certainly it does not constitute a commitment to our young people. Indeed it clearly indicates that the Minister for Foreign Affairs was right when he said that our young people are all leaving this island.

Tá na Meastacháin i gcóir mo Roinne — Turasóireachta agus Iompair — ar leathnach 52 de Leabhar na Meastachán i gcomhair Seirbhisí Poiblí (Leagan Coimrithe) atá á phlé againn inniu. Ba mhaith liom na polaisaíthe atá taobh thiar des na Meastacháin seo a leagan do Bhaill an Tí chun go mbeadh a fhios acu go bhfuilimíd, san tráth deacair atá againn faoi láthair, ag déanamh soláthair don dá thionscail tábhachtach atá faoi mo chúram.

The Estimates for my Department are set out in Vote No. 39 page 52 of this document. Important though the sectors of tourism and transport are, I feel that discussion of our development plans for them must be seen against the broader canvas of the national economy. I intend to so structure my contribution today.

In the case of my Department there are some radical policy changes underlining these Estimates. This is also true of most other Departments. To understand why we had to make such radical changes in policy it is useful to look back over the past few years at what has happened in our economy.

We sought to solve the unemployment problem by massive increases in all components of Government expenditure. This left us, on assuming office, with the gravest crisis in the public finances in the history of this State. Not only were previous policies irresponsible but they were also grossly ineffective. As a result we have witnessed over the past five years a doubling of unemployment, little economic growth and a progressive undermining of the productive capacity of our economy. We could not, and indeed we should not, continue to pursue such policies, which have been an abject failure.

We have been depicted by some commentators as Yeroshas experimenting with the ship of State. I can assure this House that there will be no monkey business from this Government. We have carefully surveyed the panel of policy measures which are available to us to get some momentum back into this economy. We have a fully integrated, consistent and fully articulated set of macro and micro economic policies which will provide economic growth and new jobs for our people.

I will not comment in detail on our macro economic policies. The Taoiseach and Minister for Finance have already dealt with these on numerous occasions. The House knows that these policies have been well received and have generated in business, financial communities and the general public, both nationally and internationally, a new confidence in the management of our nation's affairs.

We have begun to and will continue to restore competitiveness to our economy. Competitiveness is a very important factor in the development of tourism. This is the key to sustainable wealth and employment creation in an economy as open as ours which depends on the revenues from foreign trade to give us the resources to achieve these objectives.

Over the past few years industrialists have been consistently seeking a substantial reduction in domestic interest rates. Our policy initiatives have delivered these. Even in those fluid times on stock exchanges I hope that will continue to be the case. The previous uncertainty and lack of confidence about domestic economic policy led to a large increase in speculative flows across the exchanges. However, with the renewal of confidence which our policies have achieved these have now ceased. We have also succeeded in bringing inflation rates down to levels below those in our competitor countries through our imaginative macro economic policies.

We have now created an environment of certainty and confidence in which our trading sectors can plan and flourish. Having established such a favourable environment we must take full advantage of it by ensuring that those sectors where we can compete successfully in international markets are developed to achieve their full potential for employment creation and economic growth. I have responsibility for two such sectors, namely tourism and transport. I can assure this House that our policies in both areas will make a full contribution to the national drive for employment and wealth creation to which this Government is committed.

Let me first of all start with the tourism sector. A major consultancy report prepared by Stokes Kennedy Crowley/Peat Marwick for the Irish Hotels Federation concluded that it was feasible to double the real value of tourism in six to seven years with a consequential increase in employment of 40,000. This finding has been endorsed by the Irish Tourist Industry Confederation. It is also accepted by this Government — which has adopted a much more modest target increase of 25,000 jobs for the industry over the next five years.

We shall not achieve this target by sitting back and waiting for things to happen. We will have to go out and work hard for an increase in our market share of the international tourism market. The complacency which has built up in many sectors of the industry, including Bord Failte, must be swept away. New policies have and will continue to be introduced to ensure that we get a full share of the very buoyant world tourism market which as I have told the House several times already, will be the biggest industry in the world by the year 2000.

The problems we face are obvious. The objectives are clear. I have spelled them out time and again. We need - I might reiterate - good quality products, a competitive position which at least matches our market rivals — and at times excels them — and more specific marketing, promotion and sales techniques. The mix of policy measures to achieve these objectives and the weightings given to each, will undoubtedly cause much debate. This is both welcome and healthy.

From our viewpoint the solution to our problems does not lie in throwing sums of Government money at the sector, either directly or through Bord Failte. In line with expenditure cuts elsewhere, Bord Failte's current allocation has been cut under subhead B1 by £4.2 million. This does not mean a reduction in marketing expenditure. I have specifically instructed the board to ensure that marketing expenditure is not cut. Furthermore, I am determined to ensure that marketing is much more effective than in the past. The deficiencies identified by Price Waterhouse in this area must be quickly remedied.

A key element in our strategy for generating a substantial increase in tourist numbers is our policy on access transport costs. The scepticism which many commentators both inside and outside this House expressed concerning the effectiveness of this policy has been disproved by returns to date for 1987. In the first eight months of this year, there was an increase of 182,000 overseas visitors compared with the corresponding period of 1986. For the year as a whole Bord Fáilte expect that the increase in total visitor numbers will be well over 300,000 or more than 70 per cent of the revised target I set in our crash programme for tourism in May of this year. I would like to place on the record of this House that the increase for 1987 will be four to five times what was originally forecast for tourist numbers when we took office.

More competitive access transport was a key recommendation in the Price Waterhouse report which was published recently. The report also endorsed the views which I have consistently expressed since I took office on the quality and range of products we need and on how these should be marketed. We have already taken some initiatives in these areas and I shall announce more in the five year development programme for the tourism industry which I shall publish within the next few months.

I would now like to turn to the second major sector for which I have responsibility, namely transport. The role of the State in the transport sector is twofold. First, it must regulate the sector in a way which will contribute to an improvement in overall national competitiveness and in the drive for job and wealth creation. Secondly, it must ensure that the semi-State bodies operating in the sector give full value for public money.

In devising a framework for the regulation of the sector our first priority, taking account of the pressures on the public finances, is to ensure the optimal use of existing resources and infrastructure. We are also determined to create an environment in which both public and private sector operators can earn an adequate return on capital invested both as a reward for risk-taking and to finance the continuous increments in investment needed to maintain the competitiveness of the industry.

The semi-State bodies are the major operators in the transport sector. Given the limited time at my disposal, I cannot cover the activities of all of them in much detail. In view of the fact that the major expenditure item in my Vote is for CIE, I feel I should give you full details on the background to the Estimates provision for this very important company or group of companies.

Members of the House will recall that in the course of the debate on the 1987 Estimate for my Department in June last I explained that decisions taken by our predecessors in Government in relation to the State contribution to CIE in the years 1985, 1986 and 1987 meant that State indebtedness to CIE at the end of 1987 would be in excess of £45 million. This consisted of about £34 million in relation to arrears of DART interest and about £11 million in relation to CIE's general operations. I made it clear that the Government were not in a position to make good the shortfall of any part of it in 1987 and I promised to review the situation in the months ahead.

This review coincided with the preparation of the Department's Estimates for 1988. In view of the state of the Exchequer's finances, it quickly became clear that there was no possibility of the Exchequer meeting CIE's 1988 total requirements, including the £45 million due in respect of subvention. In allocating £113.605 million for 1988, the Government treated CIE as generously as was possible in view of the very difficult general economic climate. That figure represents an improvement of £6.184 million on 1987. It shows the extent to which CIE are dependent on the Exchequer.

The borrowings incurred to finance the deferred subvention have put pressure on the CIE statutory borrowing limits and they are now in urgent need of revision. I have sought Government approval for amending the legislation in relation to the board's borrowings and to the position with regard to the deferred subvention. I expect to have the Bill before the House early next month.

The board's 1988 capital allocation, which is non-voted, is £15.3 million. It is designed to allow the board to continue to invest in rolling stock, buses, signalling and communications, Rosslare Harbour, and items covered by the board's normal capital programme. The allocation takes account of policy in relation to the overall State sector capital programme and the requirements of CIE to meet relevant transport market needs.

The 1987 accounts will record the performance of the reorganised CIE with their three new subsidiaries, Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann and Bus Átha Cliath, which started trading in February this year. The recent progress reports on the CIE activities indicate that revenues and expenditures in recent months are not in line with budget. This does not augur well for the outturn for this year. I know that the chairman, board and management are taking all possible measures to try to improve the situation. The downturn puts additional pressures on the CIE organisation as a whole to reduce costs and improve productivity.

Disruptions to services which are not justified antagonise the general public on whom the CIE workforce is completely dependent for its livelihood, whether through revenues earned in respect of CIE services or through contributions made to CIE via taxes. I asked the House to note already how great those contributions are. These activities give CIE workers and the whole organisation in general an image which they certainly do not deserve. The success of CIE depends on CIE employees. I believe that they are capable of making an ongoing valuable contribution to the national transport undertaking.

I would now like to draw Members' attention to the fact that there is a provision of £165,000 for traffic management schemes in my Department's Estimate for 1988. This will enable the reconstituted Dublin Transportation Task Force to continue certain work of the Dublin Transport Authority in the area of traffic management in Dublin. The task force will assume, on a non-statutory basis, some of the functions of the Authority in this area and the introduction of further bus priority measures.

The decision to wind up the Dublin Transport Authority was taken as part of the Government's overall strategy to reduce public expenditure and I shall be introducing shortly legislation to provide for the winding up of the Authority by the end of 1987. The legislation being prepared will provide for the transfer to other statutory bodies, in most cases the Garda, of the traffic management functions, which were vested in the DTA and which are now being transferred to the task force.

One of the priority functions assigned to the DTA was to make recommendations on the transport infrastructure options for the Dublin area and, in particular, to advise on whether the public transport needs of the areas to the west of the city should be met by rail, road or busway. The capital cost of providing a city centre underground and electrified lines to Tallaght, Clondalkin and other areas is curently estimated at approximately £460 million, of which the underground could cost approximately £190 million. The construction of a Dublin transportation centre, mooted for the Temple Bar area, would add substantially to those costs. Having regard to the present serious state of the public finances, the Government decided that no further consideration should be given to these proposals. As a consequence, I have instructed the chairman of CIE to prepare transport investment plans for the Dublin area, involving only bus-based options or diesel services on existing rail lines. This decision largely obviates the need for the assessment of infrastructure options which the DTA had been asked to carry out.

Returning to the question of access transport, I would now like to give the House an outline of recent developments in this area. On 22 May last I met the board of the B & I and conveyed to them the Government's extreme concern and dissatisfaction that, notwithstanding equity injections totalling £25 million since February 1986, the company were forecasting losses for 1987 which would be more than double the 1986 loss of £6.8 million. I told them that this situation was totally unacceptable to the Government and directed them to submit to me as soon as possible a plan of action for implementation in the autumn, aimed at restoring the company to viability. I also informed the board of the Government's decision to make available to the B & I additional equity from the Exchequer of up to £8 million in the period to end October 1987 to give the company time to formulate the plan of action. I have at all times stressed in discussions with the board and representatives of the B & I unions, whom I have also met, the need for an agreed plan of action. Negotiations on the proposed plan have been proceeding over the past few months between B & I and representatives of the company's unions. I am expecting to receive proposals shortly — and I emphasise "shortly"— from the board of the B & I. As I indicated to the House last week, it is my earnest hope that the process I initiated last May will produce proposals for a viable B & I.

Deputies are no doubt aware that the sale of Irish Continental Line, the former Irish Shipping Limited subsidiary, has now been formally completed. I was delighted that this important link between Ireland and the Continent has remained in Irish hands. I understand that the new board of the company plans not only to continue existing services but to also expand operations. This is a welcome development not only from the access transport and tourism point of view but also because ICL is a significant employer of Irish seagoing personnel. I wish the company well.

Deputies will recollect that in May last I announced a new low air fares strategy aimed at increasing tourist numbers. The campaign towards lower air fares is continuing. Aer Lingus have already anounced reduced fares from the Continent for next year, particularly from France and Germany. Innovative fares from the United Kingdom have also been arranged and Aer Lingus are planning attractive promotional fares from the United States. Ryanair are also finalising contracts for next year in respect of charter traffic from the Continent, particularly France and Germany — two countries which we must target in the special marketing target procedure I have already mentioned — and the packages they are putting together should also prove attractive. That market is very important for development for the future because we have been losing ground there. We cannot afford to be complacent about those markets. These moves by Aer Lingus and Ryanair should help to increase still further tourist numbers, particularly from the Continent. As I said, there is no cause for complacency in this area.

My Department are at present reviewing charter policy, particularly in respect of inbound charters. The review is almost completed and I hope to announce in the coming weeks innovative measures to help in the promotion of inbound charter operations. In accordance with pleas I have made on several occasions, every good citizen should encourage tourists to visit this country and every good tour operator and travel agent should share that philosophy as well. They are licensed by my Department and although for the most part we think of them in terms of bringing people out of the country there is an obligation on them to think in terms of taking people in.

My efforts in the fares and charters area must be considered against the background of the package of measures on the liberalisation of European air transport which was almost agreed by the European Council of Transport Ministers in June last but which was not adopted because of a dispute between the United Kingdom and Spain over the status of Gibraltar Airport. This package of measures provides for greater flexibility in air fares, increased access opportunities including valuable fifth freedom rights and less rigid rules on capacity sharing. I regret that in the current issue of El Pais Semanal I read that not much progress has been made in the discussions between Spain and the United Kingdom. I am still optimistic enough to hope that before the year's end — possibly at the December meeting of the Council of Ministers — we will have an agreed package. The passing of the Single European Act is relevant in this regard.

I was most disappointed at the setback created by the Gibraltar issue. It would have helped to eliminate many of the current difficulties which are holding back the development of our tourism and air transport industries. I am hopeful, however, that the obstacles to progress can be removed by the end of the year.

I move that this Estimate be noted by the House.

I listened with interest to the Minister's speech. As a former Minister for Education I am amazed he could come into this House so calmly. There can seldom, if ever, have been such a collection of rumours, uncertainty and confusion about a set of Estimates as we have seen over this summer concerning the education area. Even today, with the abridged Book of Estimates before us, there is still confusion and great concern about precisely what they mean. When I show what is happening, I hope it will alert all Members of this House to the great harm which is threatened to the education system, particularly at primary level, which I hope can be averted even at this late hour.

One thing, however, that emerges as certain, from the Estimates is the unprecedented attack on our primary schools. We know that the Minister was unable to carry through on any of her promises made in the last four years, that she misled wilfully the education world during her four cynical years in Opposition and that she, and her party, have a deep conservative fear of independent thinking on reform of our education system. What is new is the element of panic and the U-turn since the Government took office.

When I spoke in June in the debate on the Estimates I quoted the Minister at length on each of the areas in which she had cut back then. I will resist the temptation to do so today but I will use one quotation to illustrate my point. On 8 April, 1987, a few short months ago, the Minister said in the House:

I propose to give a particular priority to primary education. The primary focus of any education authority or any education department must be on the first level.

Later on the same day she said, as Minister:

I am not a woman of empty promises.

Those quotations are taken from columns 1935 and 1936 of the Official Report of 8 April 1987.

We now see a cut on paper of £42 million in the primary sector, the biggest cut in Education, but behind that figure lies a wealth of unanswered questions which I expect the Minister for Education, or the Minister for Finance, to answer in this debate and not later. I note that there is neither a Minister nor a Government representative present in the Chamber; that is disgraceful.

It seems that £33 million is gone from primary teachers' pay but since about £30 million of that is accounted for by paying the January salary in this December — an accident of the calendar — we are left supposedly contemplating a cut of about £3 million. However, under the terms of the teachers' special pay awards made in February 1986 by the previous Government — Fianna Fáil wanted to pay £110 million extra — an award which we felt was reasonable, teachers are due a pay increase on 1 December 1987, another on 1 July 1988 plus an ex gratia £5 million in January 1988. Those pay rises must be included in the round figure for pay of £324 million for primary teachers for 1988, a cut on paper of £33 million. The implications of these figures are that somewhere between £12 million and £20 million at least for primary teachers' pay is being cut in 1988. The figure could be higher but how exactly is that amount to be found? That accident of the juxtaposition of a weekend and bank holiday bringing one month's salary into 1987 makes all the figures in the Estimate unreliable in the pay area and shows a smaller figure in 1988 which, of course, will be greatly increased in 1989 when a full years salary will have to be paid. Will there be more massive cuts in Education to pay for that? However, at the moment I am more concerned with what the real reduction is for 1988 and what the policy decisions are to find the money. There should be no delay in those announcements.

Apparently, the money is to be found by a massive disimprovement in the pupil-teacher ratio, increasing class sizes at primary level right across the board and hitting the larger schools particularly. Schools with more than eight teachers will lose their non-teaching principal who will be required to go back to the classroom leaving the school without guidance, care and direction. The Department may also be counting on a fall in numbers at primary level from September 1988 and on teachers availing of the redundancy package in order to bludgeon down the number actually teaching thereby making our primary classrooms the most crowded and chaotic in the Western world. One can understand older teachers faced with a classroom of 50-plus students opting for redundancy. Those decisions emanate from a Minister who said this year that she proposed to give a particular priority to primary education and that she was not a woman of empty promises. What a priority she has given to primary education; what a disastrous failure this is.

Already teachers realise the enormity of what is being done to their schools and parents are waking up to the implications for their children, particularly younger children. The addition of three children at each level of the appointments schedule, taken with the removal of the non-teaching principal spells the end of contact between child and teacher in thousands of primary classrooms across the country. The downstream effect as the child goes to second level where the rates have been worsened, particularly in the vocational schools in disadvantaged areas, will educationally be a nightmare. There is no point in talking about reviewing the primary curriculum; the only review possible would be a course in crowd control and protection against noise for child and teacher alike.

It is a measure of the chaos and confusion in education that I have been told in the last hour or so by sources outside the House that the new schedules will operate from 1 January, that there will be large scale sacking of temporary teachers, and attempts to reorganise every school. This will take place in two months time while the Minister hides, refuses to consult or deal with the education world as she should have done by holding a press conference on the day the Estimates were announced. The Minister repeated over and again on radio and television in the last week that she is a different person now than when she was in Opposition. Is she also saying that she is a different person to the person who made so many promises in April? The mind boggles at that kind of insulting rhetoric.

Parents, teachers and managers all need to know precisely how much damage will be done, how much real money will be saved and how many more children are to be stuffed into our classrooms. The answers must be given in this House. Will 1,000 teachers be taken away or will the figure be 2,000 or somewhere in between? The implications for this school year at primary level are horrifying. Let us look at this in another context. Last week the Government undertook to increase the pay of everybody paid out of the public purse at a cost of hundreds of millions over the next few years. It is clear to me that as the talks went on and the millions were clocked up the knives got sharper and sharper at the Cabinet table. Did it not strike any of those people that it was, to put it mildly, grotesque that the start for small children in the educational experience should be sacrificed in order to pay increases to the likes of us, to senior gardaí, those in the Civil Service or the teachers themselves?

I cannot believe that the teachers, and the unions, consider this a fair bargain and I am sure that parents do not, either. The bewildered children who will squeeze themselves into the classrooms to try to learn through the bedlam will not know until it is too late what deal was done in 1987 about their future because a Government needed to conclude a pay deal called, God help us, national recovery. I appeal to the Government to undo this frightful decision and restore this cut in the budget in the new year. I appeal to the unions concerned in the pay deal to go back to the negotiating table with the Government and restore their credibility by finding this money for the sake of the children of the country. They should find it out of pay.

I should like to mention another cut in the Estimate and, in this context, the subject of Carysfort College. The Estimates cut a further £1 million out of the training colleges support. Will the Minister come into the House this week and admit that not only were she and all her Fianna Fáil colleagues quite cynically misleading the staff and students of Carysfort College when she so self-righteously took up their cause but that she has refused to put into operation the plans drawn up and agreed by the former Minister, Deputy Cooney, with Sister Regina for the future of the college? Once again it is an area where the Minister cold-bloodedly misused her position in Opposition. I expect an answer to this question and a full explanation of the Estimate cut of £1 million on trainng colleges to be given to the House this week. Is the Minister planning the closure of more colleges because her cuts in the number of primary teachers means that there will be no employment? Let her tell the House which colleges they are and what her plans are for Carysfort.

Another major area which demands immediate answers is the £6.5 million cut in school transport. Anybody dealing with that area knows that this implies not only further increases on a massive scale in charges but also far-reaching changes in eligibility right across rural Ireland. In plain language, the parents and the youngsters need to know now if they will have a bus in January, if so, how far they will need to walk to get to it and how much it will cost. Maybe the Minister will amaze us all and announce a complete new transport plan which will avoid hardship. Since she denounced small charges all during 1983, if there was any consistency we would see some good ideas for reducing charges. However, it would be foolish to expect that. What I do expect — and the parents in rural areas rightly expect — is the Minister to come out of hiding, tell them the worst and let them plan how they will cope with it if they can.

Turning to second level, I will quote from the pay deal announced last Friday in this stylishly printed booklet which has — believe it or not — a section on education on page 14 which says:

The Government will ensure that the burden of adjustment does not fall on the disadvantaged.

The most dramatic cut at second-level is the worsening of the vocational, community and comprehensive school pupil-teacher ratio. The Minister knows, and has often spoken ardently about it in the House, that the disadvantaged child at second level is the special care of the vocational sector, that these schools are non-selective, that they include technical subjects, that they fulfil a range of community functions, all of which have been used by this Minister on previous occasions to justify a slightly less unfavourable pupil-teacher ratio in the vocational schools as opposed to the other selective schools. What kind of double talk is it to make such solemn statements on a Friday and the following week to turn around and betray the disadvantaged?

I take no pleasure whatsoever in making this speech because it is with great personal sadness that I listed the cuts in education amounting, we are told, to £86 million but it must be something of that order because the Minister and the Government have not come clean about the hidden pay elements. Taken with the destructive attitude to curriculum reform and the blind cut off of all building plans, the whole package represents a failure of the Minister to understand the needs of a bright, young population whose education should be their most precious asset and her extraordinary collapse at Estimates discussions when she betrayed all those people who had been led to expect so much from her. It is part of my responsibility as Opposition spokesperson to list those cuts and what they mean since the Government have so far refused to do so.

As well as the massive attack on primary, vocational and school transport which I have already listed, the cuts show that computerisation of the examination system and the results has been finally abandoned. It would have saved not only time, hassle and all the inefficiencies of the present system but money as well. I cannot understand the attitude of the Government who refuse to save money and at the same time to increase efficiency at a time when the country faces such difficulties. The allowance in the Estimates for research and curriculum reform have of course been decimated. The assistance to schools for the running costs at primary and second level has either been frozen or reduced. Which is it? The Minister has not said. I expect her to come into the House and spell it out this week.

Vocational committees are threatened with abolition and are also losing resources that they had last year. There is no national plan for regionalisation, no commitment to making a genuinely locally administered first level, second level or adult education provision. There is simply axing without any thought of vocational committees.

Third level fees will rise by a multiple of inflation without any plan for genuine reform and rationalisation of courses at all our third level institutions. Plans and discussion documents for reform in all these areas are in the Minister's Department and have been brought to a very advanced point through discussions with educational interests but there is no sign of a commitment to their implementation. There are panic stricken cuts in all these areas. There will be no further building at third level. The disadvantaged area of Tallaght who had a dream of an RTC for their young population will not see it come true. The dreams of places like Castlebar and Thurles for new RTCs have also been shattered as well as those of any university which wanted to expand to deal with the enormous increase in third level numbers.

I have not mentioned all the cuts but I have given a fairly good selection. Fianna Fáil have emerged at last in their true colours as a deeply conservative, backward looking party who will attack the weak and deal with the strong for the sake of peace and power. Today I published my party's Private Members' Bill to establish the Curriculum and Examinations Board in statutory form. The whole recent episode of the abolition of the interim board and the signalling of a return to full Civil Service and Ministerial control of every aspect of education is, unfortunately, typical of the Minister's approach which has depressed and continues to depress the educational world intensely. I will have a lot more to say on that subject when I introduce the Bill to the House and I hope for support from all parties who want to see progress, reform and democracy in educational decision-making. For the moment I am asking the Minister and the Government in the face of this very bad news for every primary classroom to reconsider between now and the budget this disastrous attack on primary schools. I am specifically asking the relevant Ministers who drew up that pay deal and the unions who agreed to it to modify its terms so as to remove the burden of adult pay increases from the shoulders of little children. I assure the Minister for Education and the Government that if they do this I will not be shouting "U-turn" or "climb-down". There is a general, sober realisation of the job that has to be done and certainly no one appreciates it more than I do. That is why I am not demanding any more than one change in these disastrous Estimates. I am asking that there be no disimprovement in the pupil-teacher ratio at primary level so that school principals in large schools can continue their essential development and administrative role.

Since the Government have created so much confusion about the figures involved, it is impossible to say with accuracy — because they have not given us the figures — how much exactly we are talking about but the price we are asking children to pay is too high. It is too much to ask of this generation of small children that they should bear this burden. I remind the House and the Minister once again of her statement in the Dáil on 8 April:

It is my intention to give special priority to the needs of primary education, I am not a woman of empty promises.

How could any Cabinet member remain in office having made such a statement if she cannot carry it through? It is clear, in the absence of any sense of direction or set of principles regarding the development of education in this Minister's term of office, that the work of policy development will be more and more a function of this House and specifically a function of Opposition spokespeople.

The vacuum of thinking in several crucial areas is a tragedy, a vacuum which must be filled. For example, language learning, so vital as Europe enters its crucial post-SEA phase and comes close to real unity with all that implies for mobility and employment, third level reform and rationalisation to meet the challenge of the nineties and beyond, curriculum reform allied to new assessment and examination procedures so that young people develop themselves for the real world and, above all, measures to protect and strengthen the primary sector and in particular its disadvantaged children, will form a principal part of my work on this side of the House.

These Estimates, show a particularly severe attack on education. They are a complete reversal of the attitude adopted by the Minister in this House in recent years and by her, her party and the Taoiseach in the general election this year and are in total a sad blow to a fine system which has been one of Ireland's proudest boasts. I am personally deeply shocked that this Minister has shown such weakness in the face of the onslaught by her Taoiseach and Minister for Finance on the education area. To give any gleam of hope to the fine people who work in the system and the parents and students who are so affected by it, the Minister must come to this House, give frank and clear answers to all my questions and put a clear plan before the country, as I did, of where education is going under her direction, first of all, however, she must go back to Cabinet and to the unions and plead for the cause of our primary school children. That is her first and immediate responsibility and I say sincerely that I hope I will be congratulating her when we come to speak on the budget.

Limerick West): The 1988 Estimates may perhaps be portrayed by some as an important crossroads for our national economy. Personally, I do not entirely subscribe to this view because I believe the really important crossroads was the point at which this Government took up office and at which they decided without hesitation that the right road was not the soft option route. We chose and have since followed the difficult but correct path towards eventual rectitude and ultimate economic growth and prosperity. The 1988 Estimates are but another step along that self same way.

Of course it behoves every significant national body or grouping to recognise the situation as it really is, to accept the hard choice that has to be made and to make, each in their own unique way, realistic and constructive contributions towards regeneration and economic and social advancement. The Government and the social partners have given that recognition and acceptance of the situation. They have set out a positive and purposeful plan in the Programme for National Recovery. Together they have pointed the way forward and, difficult though the journey may be, each special interest group must be prepared to do their part in a mutually supportive manner to achieve broad headway and benefit for all in the long run.

The current crisis in the economy did not arrive suddenly or without warning. Over a long period of years we as a people had allowed our demand for Government services to creep gradually ahead of our willingness, indeed our ability, to pay. To see how far things have drifted off course, it is useful to look back into our own recent economic history. Any objective comparison between our situation today and the situation which obtained a mere ten or 20 years ago can only lead one to conclude that radical corrective action was and is still required.

Twenty years ago, in 1967, the total amount of Government spending under the heading of supply services was approximately £248 million. Then by 1977 the amount spent by Government on supply services amounted to almost £2,000 million. Total Government spending, including capital and central fund services, became equal to about 46 per cent of GNP. This compares with a figure of only 29 per cent in 1967. In comparing these two figures, many people would justifiably feel that such an increase in spending was justified because of the previous inadequacy of the social services provided.

However, the increase in public expenditure did not stop when it reached 46 per cent of GNP, a level perhaps which could probably have been sustained in the long run. Government spending continued to rise and rise. By 1981 it reached a level equal to almost 60 per cent of GNP, a level which could only be sustained by borrowing on a massive scale. Between the early eighties and the coming to office of this Government, the national debt doubled as a result of the maintenance of public spending at this unsustainable level. It does not require an advanced education in the science of economics to realise that one cannot go on borrowing at an increasing rate for an indefinite period of time. The Government could not go on spending money which simply was not there to spend. All of the voices which are raised in opposition to our present strategy are ignoring this one central and inescapable point. Excessive borrowing went on too long. Someone had to do more than just shout "Stop".

I remember during this critical period which I have just described the constant note of concern about the state of the economy. I also recollect that among the more fundamental questions which were being asked was one about the art and feasibility of government itself. Posed in the context of liberalism, the expectations and demands for rewards and benefits without corresponding effort it asked, "Is it any longer possible to govern?"

We have answered that question. We have taken on a task that is anything but easy and we are diligently pursuing a policy of correctly focused, firm and fair government. We do not relish the burden of implementing a series of severe economic measures but no one can allege that we have been anything but responsible in our approach or that we have shirked from doing what is essential for economic survival.

To any one who is critical about the thrust of Government action I would say, "imagine the circumstances had we not done what we have done since taking up office." There would be a borrowing spiral at an accelerating rate, high capital outflows, high interest rates rising still higher. The upward push in the level of taxation would have increased, investment already impeded would have been further discouraged. The recession and the level of depression would have deepened and an undermining of international confidence would have undermined our economic freedom, perhaps even our sovereignty.

Against that background it is a pleasure to realise that the present situation is very different and very considerably better. The focus of Government policy is secure growth in the medium and long term. We fully realise that this policy entails short term costs. Nevertheless, there is already good news and progress to report. We see that progress in financial targets being met, public expenditure appropriately curtailed, funds being directed towards areas with maximum growth potential, borrowing now well under control, interest rates significantly reduced, inflation at a very modest level, exports improving and our balance of payments position likewise becoming more favourable.

Of course, we are not at the end of the road and hard decisions still have to be made. However, there are few who would deny that the economic environment has improved considerably — through better economic management by the Government — and that there is now a far greater air of confidence than there was as we moved into 1987. We now have an environment which is becoming increasingly favourable for investment and growth and the message which is coming through from the majority of the public is one of support for the policies which the Government are pursuing. Perhaps the applied medicine is working and the average citizen is more concerned about the cure than any temporary bitter taste.

In relation to Estimate cuts, the Government are not pursuing a reduction in Government spending as an end in itself and in glorious isolation from the consequences. The control in Government spending is a crucial element in its broad economic plan. It is an essential ingredient for reducing the previously unacceptable level of dependance on borrowing, improving the environment for investment, thereby creating employment, and ultimately breaking the vicious circle of high Government spending, high interest rates and a high level of taxation. I have already referred in general terms to the benefits which have already flowed from the policies which are being pursued. To give some more specific examples I will just refer to two: first, the reduced cost of personal borrowing — a fair indicator is the fact that the prime overdraft rate of the major retail banks has fallen by up to 4¾ percentage points and second, far greater price stability. The current inflation rate of about 3 per cent is the lowest for 20 years.

One factor I want to stress as regards the reductions in Government spending is that we have at all stages striven to be fair and logical in the application of cuts. We have firmly adhered to sound economic and social principles and we have set our priorities with due regard for both greatest need and the opportunities for greatest growth. A glance at the 1988 Abridged Estimates volume and Summary Capital Programme will provide evidence of Government concern to ensure that all State agencies would contribute their share to provide the economies necessary in these difficult times.

My Department is of course no exception. The Estimate for Defence for 1988 is for a sum of £253 million, that is 3 per cent down on the corresponding allocation for 1987 — not excessive in the present financial climate. It is important, however, that I reassure the House and the general public that this tightening of the financial belt in 1988 does not in any way lessen security preparedness or the capabilities of the Defence Forces. The amount of money allocated has been carefully considered and will be adequate to meet essential requirements. Notwithstanding the reduction, the Defence Forces will receive almost as much in the way of financial resources as they did last year. With sensible management, it will be possible to meet all important commitments both at home and internationally. As regards the remuneration of Defence Forces personnel, any financial constraints applied will not prevent them from being treated fairly in a manner which is fully consistent with the pay pattern developments outlined in the recently published Programme for National Recovery.

As the House may be aware, I have recently initiated a review of all significant aspects of structure, organisation, deployment, manpower, equipment and infrastructural requirements of the Department of Defence, the Defence Forces and the Civil Defence. I intend that this review will not be just a cost cutting exercise but will be a positive fundamental analysis which will develop the most realistic cost effective defence arrangements. This should enable my Department and the Defence Forces to make their unique contribution to the Programme for National Recovery over the next few years. A major part of the 1988 Estimates, as in previous years, provides for pay and allowances. The amount involved is £2,776,000 or 79 per cent of the net total. The corresponding figure for 1987 is £203,182,000 or 78 per cent of the net total. The non-pay items amount to £60 million. In 1987 the figure was £65,958,000. The 1988 appropriation-in-aid figures show a slight decrease of £530,000 over that for 1987. The Estimate for 1988 is based on an average strength of 1,590 officers, 40 cadets and 11,600 other ranks, a total of 13,230 in the Permanent Defence Forces. I have ensured that the provision in 1988 for pay and allowances is such that the pay levels of personnel in the Defence Forces are protected.

Parallel with these measures which ensure maintenance of pay rates and the strength of numbers in the Defence Forces necessary for operation and duties, a saving of £2.4 million has been achieved on pay subhead for 1988. Further savings of about £5 million have been effected by curtailing expenditure on stores and equipment and by cutting the provision for travel and subsistence. The non-pay categories of expenditure amount to £65,958,00 for 1987 and are estimated at £60,573,000 for 1988. Expenditure of defence equipment has been set at £8 million, a £2 million saving on this year's allocation. Because of the long-established policy of confidentiality under the detail of defensive equipment proposals and purchases, the House will appreciate that I cannot be too explicit in this area. I can assure the House however that all essential supplies will continue to be available to the Defence Forces.

As a matter of interest, I might mention that provision has been made in the defensive equipment allocation for 1988 for a quantity of new rifles to replace the current FN models. I expect to have a contract placed for these rifles before the end of this year. This is an indication of my resolve that the provision of modern facilities for our Defence Forces should not be neglected.

I am conscious of the fact that this financial debate regarding the 1988 Estimates is taking place at a time when the eyes of the world are wide open with surprise and concern about the happenings during the last few days in the financial markets across the globe, shades of Wall Street, 1929, when it was said that anyone booking a room in one of those skyscraper hotels might be asked whether it was for sleeping in or for jumping from. I ask myself what all this has to do with the 1988 Estimates. The behaviour on money markets might engage the greatest intellectuals in heated arguments. It is a topic on which millions of words have already been penned and spoken. I have little to add to the wealth of wisdom on this subject. But I was struck by a remark of one of our journalistic commentators on such matters when he was asked about the way in which money markets have been behaving during the past few days. He replied to the effect that it was like a flock of sheep following their leader. As to whether there were shepherds to be followed, he was rather non-commital. His analogy reminds me that in any time of crisis, in any time when confidence is severely shaken, there is a risk of behaving like sheep, perhaps walking along a route that leads right to the slaughter house. At such critical times a restoration of confidence and the provision of firm intelligent leadership are of paramount importance. Those who keep their heads, stand firm, and who when they move, move carefully but confidently along the right route, are the ones who will lead us past any threatening crisis. That is the policy of this Government and of its leadership. We are on the right track, the forward track and we are not going to deviate either to the right or to the left. I see no reason for being timorous, fainthearted or put off by any relatively minor necessary hardships. With Defence as my portfolio, I know from the annals of relatively recent defence history the examples of countries severely damaged by the onslaught of war which have come through severe levels of hardship and have picked up the pieces of broken economies to become again economically strong and occupy positions among the wealthiest nations on earth.

We are proud of our past in other ways and have good reason to be so. We have many records of achievement to be proud of, some in almost every corner of the globe. With will, application and the right leadership which we have and which this Government will continue to have, there is no reason that economic prosperity should not be an attainable goal. The 1988 Estimates signposted well in advance of this occasion are part of the Government's blueprint which will lead us to that goal.

While I agree with the need to stabilise our debt, I seriously question the gross disproportion of the cuts in so far as they affect the Vote for Agriculture and Food. How can a Government which in the national plan stated that the expansion of the agricultural food industry was the central element of the Government's economic policy justify the £33 million reduction in this Vote, which at 18 per cent is six times the overall average decrease? No explanation whatever has been forthcoming to explain the logic of this approach which is in direct contradiction to the stated objective in the national plan and incomprehensible in the context of the need to develop our main productive sector and safeguard family farm incomes.

Furthermore, the distribution of the reduced Vote is totally disproportionate in the context of the amount of money made available for services to farmers and the industry as against the virtual total exemption of the administrative superstructure from any cuts? These administrative costs for the next year take up nearly half the net Vote. This approach will result in an emasculation of the service to farmers and the food industry while fully protecting the position of those administering the Vote.

Clearly, there is insufficient recognition of the contribution of agriculture to our economy and of the appallingly low level of farm incomes. Obviously, this lack of recognition is shared by the Government and it is obvious both in the proportion of total funds allocated to agriculture and in the distribution of those funds which are allocated. It is now absolutely clear that the Minister for Agriculture and Food is either unaware of the facts or is unable to convince his Cabinet colleagues of them. Furthermore, in accepting the departmental view of the distribution of the net Estimate he is simply a pawn in the administrative superstructure within his Department. This week and ineffectual performance calls into question the competence of the Minister for Agriculture and Food to hold a portfolio of such importance to so many of our people and to the economy as a whole.

Looking at the Estimates in broad terms and taking into account the decisions taken in the national plan, it is now very obvious that the Government have embarked on a mistaken strategy. It makes no sense whatever to agree increases in the salaries sector at a cost of £200 million to the public purse while at the same time withdrawing support from the productive sectors of the economy. Clearly, the Government have traded these increases for jobs and services. This approach is of no benefit to the economy and will have many detrimental effects in the years ahead.

In countries like Holland which have successfully come to terms with their problems in the public finances an exactly opposite approach was taken. In Holland there was a cut in public sector pay of 3 per cent and it was only by pursuing this course of action that the Dutch were able to come to grips with their problem. Are we any different? I have spoken to many in the public sector in the past week and it is clear that many of those involved would much prefer a slightly reduced income rather than having the jobs of themselves and their colleagues put at risk. Effectively what the Government have done is put a halter around our necks, the full choking effects of which will become more and more apparent over the next couple of years.

The Taoiseach said on Tuesday that the national plan had a strong developmental dimension, that it identified those areas of the economy which offered the best opportunities for growth and development. He pointed out that these are also areas with the greatest potential for job creation. He went on:

The Government will be concentrating on these over the next three years to see what further initiatives can be taken to accelerate their growth and expansion.

When expressing these aspirations, he totally neglected to mention the means by which these aspirations would be implemented and financed. In fact, the necessary funds have effectively been pre-empted by the moneys required to fund the national wage agreement. This contradictory approach will ensure that the most productive sectors of the economy, the full mobilisation of which could form the basis of our economic recovery, will be starved of the necessary resources to fuel that recovery. The result of this approach is already obvious in the overall net reduction of £33 million in the Vote for Agriculture and Food for 1988.

Even if one accepts the Government's approach on pay and that there is any justification for such a grossly disproportionate reduction in the Agriculture Vote, how can the Minister for Agriculture and Food or his Government justify the distribution of that Vote? Under the heading of General Administration, covering salaries, offices and other expenses, the total allocated comes to £66.5 million. Since, in fact, the 1988 allocations in the Estimates for the Public Service have been prepared on the basis of pay rates in operation on 1 October 1987, they do not take into account the proposed increases for 1988 and therefore the outturn for administrative costs will be even higher. However, even on the basis of the figures before us very serious questions must be asked and answers demanded. I am now putting these questions and demanding answers. How can the Minister justify the fact that the Estimates provide for 45 per cent of the net Vote to be spent on general administration? How can he justify having over 4,000 people in the Department to administer that much reduced Vote? We need to know the basis on which there is a need for almost 2,000 personnel in the general services grade within the Department, all the more so now in the context of the overall cut of £33 million in the Vote.

What has become of the 91 people who worked with the Land Commission, who went on promotion at an average of about £20,000 a year to the Farm Tax Office and who are now back in the Department without any work to do because the Government abolished the Farm Tax Office, which was doing very good work. Will the Minister confirm or deny that these people have no work to do, do not even have to report for duty and, in the case of some, have had the phones in their offices disconnected? How can the Minister preside over an administrative situation which permits such practices to continue while at the same time reducing the very necessary moneys needed at coalface for those providing services and support for farmers and the agricultural and food industry? How can the Minister justify such enormous and disproportionate cuts in the Exchequer funding for the new research, education and advisory body, a new merged body, which for convenience I shall refer to as "AFTCOT" until such time as it has been formally and officially christened by the Minister. How can he justify a reduced funding of over £20 million for that body instead of £35 million while at the same time the administrative positions for his Department have been so totally protected? This is perhaps the most outrageously disproportionate imbalance in the entire Vote if not in the entire Estimates.

There is a 44 per cent reduction in the budget for "AFTCOT" and this must be compared with no savings whatsoever in administrative costs. There is in the Book of Estimates a reference to 2 per cent savings in salaries, but this will be more than compensated for by the fact that there will be additional moneys available to cover the 1988 salary increases. The Minister in his press release yesterday stated that there will be the release of some 200 staff who are surplus to the Department's requirements and that this is provided for in the Estimates. This proposed reduction in numbers at 4.7 per cent surplus staff compares with the proposed reduction of numbers at "AFTCOT" of over 45 per cent. The proportion proposed in this area which is giving service to farmers and the industry is over ten times that proposed for the Department and over three times that proposed for the general Public Service. This gross disproportion is now seen more and more as a national scandal.

If we are to increase agricultural production and maintain farm incomes there is an absolute need to improve efficiency and quality. That approach requires an emphasis on education, advice, training, research and development which the new merged advisory and research body could provide if it is established on a sensible basis and not strangled at birth, which is what this Government and Minister are proposing. Effectively, what the Minister has now done is to establish a financial straitjacket for this new body. It will mean fewer services to farmers, more charges and the abandonment of those farmers least able to afford services. Maintenance of incomes in rural areas will inevitably be adversely affected by this inexplicable approach. Furthermore, the disastrous affects on the economy will become apparent in a short time.

I accept that we need a basic administrative infrastructure but there must be justice and equity in whatever measures are taken which will affect those at the coalface and those involved in administration. I say that those two basic requirements are not present or underpinning these decisions. There is no more justice or equity in this approach than can be found in any of the worst decisions made by any Government in any country in the world. Clearly, this foolish and misguided approach will impact adversely on farm incomes. Despite the difficulties at present there are areas where output can expand and there are possibilities to impact positively on farm incomes. To do this we need to encourage efficiency, cost control, good financial management, top quality and effective marketing but all these need the benefit of advice, research and support at national level.

It is now very obvious that there was no planning whatever behind the decision to merge the AFT and ACOT. In fact, this was another U-turn on the part of Fianna Fáil some of whose members solemnly assured the staff in these bodies last year that no such merger would take place under a Fianna Fáil administration. However, there have been so many U-turns that I will not dwell on that. Clearly, as someone who is in favour of the merger, what is required to establish a lean, effective and efficient body is a substantial degree of planning. I accept entirely that that approach would result in substantial savings but what have we now?

At this stage it is obvious that the staff in both organisations are shell shocked and the Minister is unable to provide direction or guidelines as to how he proposes to establish an effective organisation on the basis of the moneys now allocated in the Estimates. Clearly, the Government have put the cart before the horse. They have now made the decision based on the financial straitjacket and at this stage the Minister is running around like a headless chicken seeking to imply that he has some broad secret strategy, so far unannounced, in pectore, as it were, to enable the merger to be effectively implemented. Let me say to the Minister and to the Government that apart from the 150,000 farmers in the country there are also 2,200 employees in ACOT and the AFT who have more than a passing interest in being allowed a glimpse of the thoughts of the Minister on this subject at this stage.

For my part I say that the whole aproach has been wrong. The planning should have come first. An assessment of the necessary resources in terms of personnel and finance should have been made and provided. It is now too late to adopt this sensible and rational approach but there are still some ways in which the position can be improved. I have three specific proposals to make. First, since there is an utterly disproportionate share of funding going for general administration within the Department, this amount should be reduced. Of the sum of £66.5 million under subhead A for general administration a sum of the order of £7.5 million should be transferred from subhead A to subhead B by way of an increased grant to the new body. Second, and additionally, the entire farm development service of the Department and all funding presently applying to it should also be transferred to the new body from the Department. Third, the proposal to establish An Bord Glas should be scrapped and the funding of £168,000 in the Estimate should also be transferred to the new body with the full responsibility for that area.

I have already clearly expressed my views in relation to efficiency which would result from the transfer of the farm development service to AFTCOT. In relation to An Bord Glas I take for my authority the words of the Taoiseach, strangely enough. I listened to him speak in this House yesterday when he said: "There are simply too many State agencies and authorities each with their own burden of administrative overheads". He subsequently said: "We simply have not got the resources to support this elaborate superstructure of agencies". How can anybody who speaks in these terms justify the formation of a new body which clearly has not got the resources to make any effective impact in the area? In any event it is clear that the amount of general expenses provided would hardly be sufficient to cover the expenses of a separate autonomous body. It is also clear that they will have to rely on the infrastructure of the new farm body such as it will be to provide support for this fledgling body. The idea on paper may have seemed wise but obviously no planning went into it either. The right approach would be to merge that body also into the new body.

In relation to the proposed merger and the paltry Exchequer funding now available for the new body the following questions arise in respect of which clear and unequivocal answers are needed from the Minister. Does the Minister accept that the way to increase farm incomes is to increase production, if possible, and to improve efficiency and quality? How can this be done without an adequate support service providing education, training, advice and research? Is it the Minister's approach that the vast majority of farmers are now to be abandoned to their own devices and left without support? Is it correct that AFT and ACOT were both asked last June to prepare normal budgets providing for a 10 per cent reduction in expenditure? If so, what is the reason for the change in direction and what planning has been provided in relation to that?

On the basis that over 1,000 redundancies will be required in the AFT and ACOT and on the basis that at most about 350 voluntary redundancies will be achieved, what are the proposals to bring the figure up to 1,000 in the light of the Government's oft-stated commitment to the principle that there will be no compulsory redundancies? What proposal has the Minister to make as regards the pensions of those made redundant? Are these to be paid also out of the funding now provided? If we examine the figures, redundancy for 1,000, which is the figure proposed, will cost in the order of £17.5 million. This presumably is going to be part of the money provided through the funny money arrangement yet to be announced with the Central Bank, but let us leave that aside. That is not the end of the cost. What is to become of the annual pensions? Who is going to pay for those and where is the money going to come from? A rough calculation taking into account the age structure and the terms of service of those employed by AFTCOT would suggest that the cost of such pensions would be of the order of £7 million to £7.5 million a year. Where is the money going to come from to pay for those pensions?

How do the Government justify, in the light of the present hype on both training and research and development, establishing the lowest budget for same in the whole of Europe? The proportion now provided from Exchequer funds works out at 0.73 per cent of gross agricultural output. No other country in Europe spends anywhere near as low as this figure. In comparison, the Dutch will be spending next year 16 times that proportion in the research area. How can our farmers and food industry generally be expected to compete in that market on level terms with that kind of support and funding? Even if one takes the Department's own figures for research and testing — again looking at the Estimates — we find that a reduction of 10 per cent has been provided in relation to that figure within the Department. How does the Minister justify the disproportionate adjustment of that amount as opposed to the figures I have mentioned?

These are some of the questions that must be raised and answered in the light of the approach now adopted by the Government. Clearly the approach adopted establishes without doubt that there is no recognition as far as this Government are concerned of the contribution of agriculture to our economy. Are this Government aware that agriculture and the food industry earn nearly 46 per cent of foreign exchange when raw material imports are taken into account? Are they aware that this major and important figure as far as the country is concerned is based on an Exchequer contribution of 2 per cent only? Are the Government aware of the huge employment content in the agricultural and food area totalling over 200,000? Is that employment now to be put at risk? There are already approximately 12,000 per annum leaving the land. It is very clear to me that the approach adopted by this Government will accelerate that trend.

What is the present attitude of the Government in relation to farm income? Is the Minister not aware that 71 per cent of all farms produce an income of less than £5,000, that almost three-quarters of farms produce an income of less than £5,000. Contrary to what has been stated in other fora, that figure includes all grants and subsidies received by those farmers. Does he not accept that there is a continuing need for support, advice and an effort at least to maintain, if not improve, that figure?

The only overall conclusion we can come to is that the Minister has accepted feather-bedding in his own Department at the cost of the Irish farmer, of the agricultural and food industry in general and at an appalling cost in terms of jobs of those actively engaged in ACOT and AFT supporting both the farmer and the industry.

There are other aspects of the Estimate about which questions must be raised but time will not permit me to go into them in detail. For instance, where is the provision for the beef cow suckler scheme? There is already considerable uncertainty about this scheme. In the Minister's announcement at the end of last month he referred to an Exchequer contribution of £1 million. I can find no provision for that sum in the Estimates.

I have made it clear that I consider the increase in the national herd as being the national priority. I welcomed the Minister's announcement even though I felt that the measures proposed were insufficient. It now appears the scheme may not get off the ground at all. It is clear that the meat plants are getting cold feet about it and, at best, the banks are lukewarm. AIB have offered 2 per cent. The other financial institutions have not confirmed equivalent support for the scheme. I gather the ACC have indicated they will be involved only if the interest allowed is added to their grant by the Minister for Finance. Similarly, no arrangement has been made in relation to the farmer contribution. The Minister urgently needs to make a statement in relation to this scheme, confirming full and detailed implementation provisions. In particular — I want to pinpoint this — where is the Exchequer contribution promised? I suppose it is becoming so common nowadays to refer to U-turns and broken promises there is a rather resigned reaction on the part of those who were taken in by the promises given in relation to disadvantaged areas. The reclassification of those areas is not to be proceeded with and no provision is being made therefore. In fact, the reduction in the off-farm income limits of eligibility effectively reduce the amounts being made available in these poorer parts of the country.

Again, there was much talk on the part of this Government about the importance of marketing. Yet we find that the allocation to CBF is being cut in half as part of a policy decision to phase out the whole lot over the next couple of years. That is hardly in line with the statements made by the Government about the importance of marketing.

Furthermore, the provision for overseas aid has been cut to the minimum. It really is scraping the bottom of the barrel to literally take the bread out of the mouths of the poor and hungry of the Third World. It is clear the Government do not attach any importance to the agriculture and food area. It is also clear, in the context of the Vote, that the Minister has totally abandoned the farmers, the industry and has copper-fastened the position of those involved in his Department.

So many questions remain outstanding one would need long hours to tease out all the implications of this Estimate. I regard it as a disaster as far as the agricultural sector and the development of the food industry are concerned. Indeed, it is a disaster for those in the support, advisory and research services whose jobs are now needlessly put at risk. I have pointed out the way this can be avoided, the way in which the necessary support services can effectively be continued. This is not being done by the Government. I believe this will prove to have been an absolutely disastrous decision as far as the country generally is concerned.

Of course, there are also some legal aspects I have not time to go into. I wonder has the Minister checked some of the legal provisions in relation to the 1958 Act to allow the Agricultural Institute such staff as is necessary for the performance of its functions? There is an even more interesting section in the National Agricultural Advisory, Education and Research Authority Act of 1977, section 48, the implications of which need to be teased out. There are also questions to be raised in relation to the position of places like Johnstown Castle which has been mentioned as being for the hammer. There are three Acts relating to Johnstown Castle. I wonder have they been examined? In fact one might well ask: has there been any policy at all prepared in relation to the proposed merger, or are we going to cut out whole sections of the advisory service on the ground? If that is the approach of the Government I say it is wrong. I am advancing serious, constructive proposals as to how it may be put right. I believe that the total amount allocated is too small for the agricultural area but even within the Agricultural Vote even at this late stage the position can be retrieved.

I appeal to the Minister and the present Government to seriously consider the constructive proposals I have advanced so that that can be done. If that approach is adopted, then we can largely avoid the ill-effects of the present hasty and ill-conceived decisions of the Government.

I welcome the opportunity this debate affords to reiterate the Government's approach to the grave financial problems obtaining and to hear the views of the Opposition on their alternative proposals which, despite all the talk of the past week or so, I have not yet heard articulated. That is not surprising as I think they, too, agree that urgent, remedial action is required to solve the nation's finances. If so, and if the consensus of the Dáil is clear, then that consensus will help to enlist public support for the Government's budgetary strategy. In that regard I am disappointed but not surprised at the Labour Party's negative stance, as portrayed in their amendment to the Government motion. The leading members of the Labour Party know quite well from their experience in Government that there is no other way forward than that proposed by the Government.

The Estimates we are discussing are not an isolated event but form part of the Government's strategy for restoring growth in the economy. Last Friday the Fianna Fáil Party in their Programme for National Recovery set out the principles for management of the public finances which we said we would adopt when elected to Government. We said that Government expenditure would be contained, that the current budget deficit would be reduced progressively, that the growth of national debt as a percentage of GNP would be reversed, interest rates lowered and that every effort would be made to re-establish confidence in the country.

The recently announced Programme for National Recovery constitutes another step in the Government's programme to achieve consensus with the major sectors in the country, as most, if not all realise, that the drift in the public finances must be corrected now. The urgent need for this consensus was echoed in the report of the National Economic and Social Council entitled Strategy for Development which, in plain language, pointed out that, as a country, we could not continue to add £2 billion a year to the national debt. The tragedy is that the Coalition Government wasted four and a half years thinking about the problem without doing anything positive about it. They only succeeded in making matters worse by doubling the national debt by £12 billion to £24 billion. Had they taken the necessary corrective measures over those four and a half years then the drastic action we must now take in Government would not be so severe. In those four and a half years the public had become accustomed to accepting that adding £2 billion to the national debt annually was normal. It is not and we must get that message across.

I cannot imagine any normal household or business adding comparably large amounts to their borrowing because they would soon be in trouble with their bank managers. Likewise, the Government must cry halt now. This Government, unlike their predecessors are not afraid to take the necessary action to restore stability to the public finances while, at the same time, protecting those depending on social welfare payments and identifying and encouraging those areas of the economy that have the capacity for growth. It is easy at this time to be pessimistic but it is also a time for courage to overcome our difficulties and improve our future prospects.

Debate adjourned.
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