On a point of order, the Chair intimated to me that the Private Notice Question I submitted, and which seems to have been mislaid in the General Office, was acceptable because the substance relates to the question tabled by Deputies Taylor and De Rossa.
Private Notice Questions. - Proposed Sale of H. Williams Group.
My office, after an exhaustive investigation, does not have any knowledge of such a question tabled by the Deputy but I will allow him put a supplementary question on the matter now.
Will the Chair investigate where the question went? The question was handed in at 11.40 a.m. and the Chair, having seen a copy of it, agreed that the essence of it was in order.
I told the Deputy that my office had made an exhaustive investigation into the matter.
It could not have been that exhaustive.
My office does not have any knowledge of a Private Notice Question submitted by the Deputy this day.
It was not submitted to the Chair's office; it was submitted to the General Office and that is where it was lost.
That is my office.
I will take the matter further, and with the Chair in the first instance.
I am anxious to facilitate the Deputy but I cannot permit him to put a question if my office tells me it was not submitted to them.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he would make a statement regarding the proposed sale of the assets of the H. Williams Group.
asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if, in view of the important issues raised by the proposed sale of the H. Williams Group to Aviette Ltd., and Aviette's reported plans to re-sell four of the stores and a major warehouse to the Quinnsworth Group he will refer the whole deal to the Examiner of Restrictive Practices; if he will withhold his approval for any deal which does not provide adequate guarantees for the employees of the H. Williams Group; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The proposed sale of the H. Williams company was notified to me late yesterday evening pursuant to the Mergers, Take-overs and Monopolies (Control) Act, 1987. The proposal is being examined in my Department and I will be taking a decision very shortly on whether or not to refer it to the Examiner of Restrictive Practices for investigation under the Act.
One of my concerns in looking at the proposed takeover of H. Williams is to see that the maximum number of jobs is protected. This is because of the people involved, many of whom have given lengthy service in their jobs, and because redundancies and unemployment cost the State substantial amounts of money. I will be looking closely at this and the other important aspects of the proposal in relation to developments in the grocery trade.
It would be inappropriate for me to comment further on the matter at this time.
In arriving at his decision will the Minister take into account the fact that if the present scheme is allowed to go through the sole beneficiary will be the Bank of Ireland who will lay hands on the entirety or the bulk of the £14 million to the detriment of the workers who will lose their jobs, to the detriment of the suppliers and their employees who will be adversely affected and to the detriment of the State who will be committed to perhaps a couple of million of pounds in redundancy and social welfare payments? Will the Minister take into account the excessive concentration of supermarket power that will be vested in Quinnsworth, a non-national company, if the deal is allowed to go through and they acquire additional substantial outlets?
I should like to assure the Deputy that I will take all matters he has raised into account but I must point out to him that strict criteria are laid down under the Act. This, or any other take-over proposal, must be examined under nine different headings. I have already stated that my concerns relate to employees, suppliers, consumers and the State but they must be examined under the strict criteria laid down. I am sure the House will appreciate that bearing in mind that the notification was handed to my Department at 5.20 p.m. yesterday it would be inappropriate of me to comment any further on this.
Will the Minister agree that the proposal has more an appearance of a property speculation deal than a grocery trade deal? Will he agree that serious questions hang over the role of the Bank of Ireland in this process, a group that previously refused to accept a deal that would save the H. Williams Group? Will the Minister agree he must give serious consideration to this aspect? It is unacceptable for the bank to be acting purely in the interest of saving its financial face in the matter at a cost of 1,600 jobs, as seems to be the case.
In my two responses so far I have stated that I will take all aspects into account but I must point out that my Department and I must have regard to the criteria laid down. I will take into consideration all aspects when the proposed take-over is analysed and judged. We must carry out that examination in a studied and balanced manner. All aspects mentioned by Members, and those to which I referred, will be considered.
Will the Minister accept that if the referral of this issue to the Examiner goes on for a matter of days that there will, in effect, be in the region of 1,700 people made redundant next Friday? Will he agree that the stores will be closed and the customers will transfer to other multiples as a result? Has the Minister any proposals to deal with the problem of the concentration of control by a few multiples in this area?
I have told the House that I am concerned for the suppliers, employees, consumers, State and the state of the grocery trade and that those aspects will be taken into consideration when analysing the notification that was sent to me. I am not prepared at this early stage to speculate as to the decision that may or may not be taken.
How long will the Examiner take?
Before a decision is reached to refer the matter to the Examiner a full examination will be carried out in the Department in accordance with the strict criteria laid down.
How long does the Minister expect to take before he reaches a decision? In the event of the matter being referred to the Examiner, how long does the Minister expect the Examiner to take before coming to a decision? I will accept a rough estimate. Is the Minister aware that under the terms of the proposed deal a number of outlets will be transferred to a group which is not obliged to publish its accounts in Ireland and in respect of which, therefore, credit information is not available to the Companies Office or to creditors? Will the Minister consider taking action to remedy that as part of his investigation of this issue? Is the Minister aware that this involves a number of outlets being transferred to a group which already has outlets in the western part of Dublin to such an extent that it could effectively give them a local monopoly on one side of the city?
The Deputy, as a former Minister for Industry and Commerce, is familiar with the exact procedure that must be followed. He is aware that I cannot speculate, particularly in view of the fact that the notification arrived at 5.20 p.m. yesterday. It may well be that additional information may be required before we can finalise the examination. The Deputy and the House will be aware that I am taking up all aspects in relation to the grocery trade and how it is carried on. There is legislation in that regard before the House at present and more will follow.
That disposes of questions, ordinary, Priority and Private Notice.