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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Nov 1987

Vol. 375 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Job Targets.

6.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce in relation to the Programme for National Recovery for action which has been taken to date regarding working towards the achievement of the job targets in that document; his views on whether those targets are attainable; if he will comment on the apparent contradiction between the specific figures given in that plan and statements he made in the week prior to its publication on RTE radio and television when he said that such certainty of prediction could not be undertaken; and if he will make a statement on the present unemployment situation indicating the Government's plans in this respect.

18.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce the number of new jobs to be created by the IDA in 1987 and 1988; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

31.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will give details of the number of jobs which the Government forecast will be created in 1988.

41.

asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will outline the way in which it is intended to achieve the target of 20,000 extra jobs on average in the manufacturing industry, as set out in the Programme for National Recovery; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 18, 31 and 41 together.

The first and most important element in the Government's strategy for job creation is to create an environment conducive to investment and economic growth. This the Government have done through their rigorous action on the public finances. The significant results which have already been achieved with lower interest rates, low inflation, a stable exchange rate, higher growth and a reduction in the debt/GNP ratio will directly aid the creation of new employment and thus lessen the very high level of unemployment.

The Government's strategy for employment creation is being developed primarily on a sectoral basis and will build upon the more competitive environment generated by the Government's fiscal and monetary policies. Because available resources are strictly limited, the Government intend to concentrate them on those sectors where there is the best hope of generating real sustainable jobs and where the best use can be made of our indigenous skills and resources. The Government have identified the following sectors as having the best potential for extra job creation: marine, food, tourism, horticulture and forestry. Ministers have been appointed with specific responsibility in each of these areas to ensure that their full potential is realised.

In so far as manufacturing industry is concerned, the objective of Government policy is to create approximately 20,000 extra jobs on average per year over the next ten years, with the actual provision accelerating as the programme policies take effect. The target for new jobs to be created in 1987 with assistance from the IDA and SFADCo is 12,600. In addition, it is expected that approximately 5,000 to 6,000 extra jobs will arise through recoveries of jobs previously lost in industry.

Work on the development of sectoral strategies for selected areas of manufacturing industry and for which my Department has responsibility is being undertaken under the aegis of my Department. These strategies will draw upon the work of the Sectoral Development Committee, which is comprised of representatives of industry, trade unions and Government. These strategies will be based upon market research at home and abroad to identify development and employment potential; our natural resources; the new advanced skills in our workforce; the achievement of increased market share in selected sectors and markets.

There are a number of other elements which are intrinsic to the Government's strategy to create employment and expand our industrial base. These include the rationalisation of the industrial promotion agencies; giving greater priority to the market and technological orientation of indigenous industry through the expansion and growth of selected Irish companies firmly rooted in the economy; a shift in resources from the support of fixed asset investment to the upgrading of marketing, product development, R & D and management expertise; the linking of State support to the achievement of specific employment targets; the establishment of trading houses to provide a new and effective export service to indigenous firms to help them to increase their share of overseas markets; the establishment of Ministerial Offices for Trade and Marketing and for Science and Technology and the promotion of investment from overseas designed to give greater emphasis to the integration of such investment into the Irish economy.

I am quite satisfied that, with the implementation of the Government's strategy and a continuation in the improvement of the cost environment under which industry operates, the targets outlined by Government will be met.

You are a great man if you believe all that.

I thank the Minister for what must be the longest reply to any question that I have heard in my short time in this House. It is a pity that in the course of that reply my question was not answered. Does the Minister now agree that the IDA report which was issued in 1981 — and as far as I know the prospects to which they were committed in that report have not changed — mentioned 1,000 net jobs per year? Has that changed in essence since then?

The position is that the plan called for a target of 20,000 jobs per annum and that is the target. The Deputy will appreciate that no target is set for job losses because we have clearly taken the view that trying to estimate offsetting job losses is a very difficult exercise.

It is still all being done with mirrors.

If the Deputy has a figure for potential job losses, I should certainly value getting it.

There is no point in having such.

I cannot predict job losses.

May I draw the Minister's attention to the question, which asked whether in the view of the Minister for Industry and Commerce these targets were attainable? That part of the question was not answered and that is a fundamental part of it.

Perhaps the Deputy did not pick up the last part of my answer.

It says that I am quite satisfied that the targets outlined by the Government will be met.

How can the Government make such categoric provisions for job creation without being able to make similarly categoric provisions in regard to prospective job losses? Would the Minister agree that figures for job creation which ignore prospective job losses are liable to be very misleading and that in fact this is the case with virtually all the figures mentioned in the Programme for National Recovery? Further, in regard to specific matters mentioned in his reply, may I ask the Minister if the proposed trading houses which he refers to are compatible with EC law and if he has received any communication from the Commission on that matter? May I also ask if the proposed sectoral strategies to which he referred will be published and, if so, when the first of them will be published?

In regard to the prediction of job losses, we have perhaps all learned from the experience of the past. That is that between 1983 and 1986 there was an accumulative loss of 20,000 jobs. That decline occurred notwithstanding the job targets set in Building on Reality, which were between 3,000 and 6,000 per year for ten years.

Which Fianna Fáil said was not big enough.

Please, Deputy.

I think that we have learned from not being able to meet those targets that one of the elements——

Would the Minister of State answer the question?

The Minister of State is in trouble there.

One of the elements is not being able to meet——

When Deputies ask questions, they should do the Minister the courtesy of listening to the reply, please.

As the House will appreciate, one of the elements in failure to meet targets in the past has been our inability to predict the size of job losses.

That does not stop the Minister's party at election time.

Who could have predicted the companies in the country that are no longer with us? Certainly the previous Government could not and this Government are not making that rash attempt. I think that we have all learned.

Why are Fianna Fáil codding the people at election time?

We have all learned that predicting job losses a number of years down the road is quite a meaningless exercise.

Why publish a manifesto promising the people 57,000 new jobs when the Government find they cannot keep that promise?

We are going to have questions.

I have been quite specific about job creation. We have identified——

How can the Government be specific about job creation when they cannot predict the job losses?

For example, in the food industry we have identified 1,000 jobs over the next five years——

They are all gross figures.

——in pig processing, beef processing and sheepmeat, very specific targets, and in the toolmaking industry 1,000 jobs over five to eight years, in electronics 4,500 jobs over the next five years, in international services 10,500 jobs.

These are telephone numbers.

It is a much easier job, as the Deputies opposite will appreciate, considering the targets for four years that were extremely wide of the mark. I appreciate how those targets were wide of the mark. It was difficult to put your finger on what the job losses would be. That is the situation. Perhaps the Deputies should consider that point of view. The Deputy's question about trading houses is elsewhere on the Order Paper today and I shall deal with it in due course.

I asked about sectoral strategies.

In relation to the jobs which the Minister is saying will be created by the IDA in 1987 and 1988, would he inform the House in what sectors he would expect those jobs to be created? Secondly, in relation to present negotiations taking place between the IDA and potential investors in this country, would he outline from what countries we might expect new industry to be establishing here?

The Deputy will appreciate that I cannot be specific about the companies with which the IDA are in negotiation. They are negotiating with companies and, obviously, with companies in other countries but I cannot be specific about those negotiations at this time. In regard to the particular sectors. I have indicated to the Deputy that we have identified job opportunities. The day has gone when we can put our hand on our heart and say that there definitely will be X number of jobs. That is a foolish exercise.

You have already said that.

I have said quite clearly "job opportunities" and "job targets" and we will make a better effort to hit those targets than heretofore. We should stop codding ourselves in thinking that they are anything other than job opportunities and job targets. If there is anyone in this House who could guarantee jobs I would be quite prepared to sit down and listen to him.

Can the Minister of State tell us when the interim board for the proposed State company dealing with forestry will be set up? I understand from the Programme for National Recov- ery that it will be set up shortly. Could the Minister of State also tell us how far has the evaluation of the projects listed in the appendix to the programme been advanced by the various State agencies who have indicated that they have projects on hand?

The question on forestry is a separate one and I do not have the information. It is a specific question about when a forestry board might be set up and that certainly is the subject of a separate question. I would be helpful in the matter if I could but I do not have the information.

All of the questions relate to the job targets contained in the Programme for National Recovery. The programme stated that a State company would be established in the New Year to deal with State forests and to ensure that jobs would be created from that very valuable resource. There was a promise contained in the programme that an interim board would be established very shortly. Surely, the Minister of State must have the information?

All I can say is that a question about when a specific board will be set up must remain a separate question, although I understand the spirit of what the Deputy is saying. In regard to the projects he mentioned, the projects which have been put forward by the various semi-State companies are currently being examined by the Government and an announcement will be made when each of them is ready to start.

The Minister of State failed to answer part of my previous question which related to sectoral strategies and the publication thereof. Will he now do so? Will the Minister of State also address the second last part of Deputy Colley's question which referred to a contradiction with statements made on RTE?

Does Deputy Colley wish me to do so?

The Minister is purported to have said that such certainty of prediction could not be undertaken. All I can say is that the Minister stands fully behind the target of 20,000 jobs which was set out in the national plan. I do not have——

That does not explain the contradiction.

Order, please.

I am at a loss because neither the Minister nor I has got a copy of the tape.

I heard it.

I have no doubt the Deputy heard it.

I want to deal with other questions also. I want to facilitate Deputy Ivan Yates.

The Minister of State has had three days' notice of this question.

It would make an ideal Christmas present for a Minister of State.

If the Minister of State is so confident of these job targets, will he explain how 25,000 jobs are going to be created in tourism when there has been no such precedent for the creation of such a number of jobs and how the job target for the pig processing industry can be justified especially when we consider that there has been a rapid reduction in the pig population in this country?

I am repeating many of the items contained in the Programme for National Recovery. A series of extra job opportunities have been identified. I want to stress to the House.

Off the wall.

Off his head, you mean.

Obviously, in preparing the plan we held discussions with representatives of the employers, the trade union movement and other interested parties. These are job opportunities and I am not prepared to come into this House and guarantee absolute delivery in each case.

Opportunities for whom?

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