asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he has satisfied himself with the existing regulations, controls and legislation governing public health and safety with respect to the manufacture and sale of foodstuffs and consumer goods generally; if he has satisfied himself with labelling and description standards in this regard; his views on the use of technical terms to describe additives to such goods; and whether he intends to take any initiative in this respect.
Ceisteanna — Questions Oral Answers. - Public Health and Safety.
38.
My responsibility in the matters raised by the Deputy's question extends only to the safety aspects of consumer goods generally and to some aspects of labelling. Areas such as public health and the manufacture and sale of foodstuffs are the responsibility of a number of other Ministers such as the Minister for Health or the Minister for Agriculture and Food.
With regard to the safety of consumer goods I am empowered under section 44 of the Industrial Research and Standards Act, 1961, to make orders prohibiting the manufacture, assembly or sale of products unless they comply with certain requirements specified in the order. To date 17 orders have been made under section 44, each of which has been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. They relate to such diverse items as babies' dummies, electrical plugs, children's nightwear, furniture, etc.
Enforcement and surveillance of the Product Safety Regulations are handled by the Director of Consumer Affairs and Fair Trade. Laboratory testing services and technical advice are provided to the Department by EOLAS — The Irish Science and Technology Agency. Surveillance is carried out at point of sale. Goods which appear suspect are purchased and a warning given at the time of purchase that the goods will be submitted to EOLAS for examination. If, as a result of that examination the goods are found to be in breach of the regulations, the seller may be prosecuted. If the goods are not covered by regulation then consideration is given at that time to the making of an order under section 44.
A new Product Safety Bill is at present at an advanced stage of drafting. This will create, for the first time in Irish legislation, a general requirement to trade in safe goods from the manufacturing or importation stage right through to the sale to the public.
In relation to the question of labelling I would refer the Deputy to a detailed reply which I gave in response to a similar question tabled by Deputy Harney on 2 March, 1988 — Question No. 14, Volume 378, Dáil Official Report, columns 1449 to 1450.
As regards additives used in foodstuffs, under regulations which I have made, to come into effect in July next, the name of an additive or its identifying E number will be required to be given on a label in addition to the category to which the additive belongs. I am satisfied that this will result in consumers being given the details necessary to enable them to identify particular additives.
Does the Minister seriously suggest that the publication of an E number, a technical expression relating to a particular form of additive, perhaps printed in microscopic print on packaging, is a serious attempt to try to help consumers to understand precisely what additives are in food, some of which have damaging effects on health? A much more sensible way of doing it would be simply to print clearly in plain English what additives were in the food and to ban additives that have a damaging effect on health. In that context would the Minister say whether or not he is expecting us to be assured by what he has just told us, that we will have more technical gobbledegook, which at present falls far short of satisfying anybody anywhere in Europe? I am looking for plain English so that the ordinary consumer can make a choice based on a rational analysis of the facts which will not be hidden behind a maze of technical jargon.
I support the Deputy's objectives but we on this island do not live in isolation. We live as part of a world trading block, the European Community, and the essence of the internal market and of the European Community is that we try to act together in these technical areas. It is easy to say: "Put on a label stating what is in the bottle" but if one is dealing with 12 countries and thousands of manufacturers with different views of what those commodities are, it is difficult to be simplistic, and it is dangerous to be simplistic. We are working within the European Community to make sure that products are safe and that the public know what additives are in them.
The present legal requirements for the labelling of foodstuffs are set down in the European Community's regulations. These regulations, together with the EC Directive to which they give effect, require certain specified details to be given on the labelling of foodstuffs. This is already happening in a lot of areas. As well as that, in response to public demand for greater information about additives, the Minister made amending regulations on 31 July last which revoke existing derogations. These regulations will come into effect on 1 July next and will require an indication of the specific name of an additive or its E number, in addition to its category name. That is a genuine attempt to tidy up the information for the consumer.
Would the Minister be specific in telling us where in any EC agreement the Irish Government are inhibited from being explicit about information on additives, as well as perhaps publishing the E number on the package? Is there some bar on this Government acting with some degree of autonomy and responsibility as far as the consumer is concerned?
No, but what the Deputy might regard as autonomy, the European Community might regard as being our disagreement on harmonisation.
Have they been asked?
I take it that the Deputy is in favour of harmonising these matters throughout Europe. This means that we should be slow to go off on our own flight of fancy with it. I would remind the Deputy that on 1 July next regulations will come into effect requiring an indication of the specific name of the additive or its E number in addition to its category name. Specific information will be required after 1 July. This has been undertaken in accordance with the whole EC. I remind the Deputy again that a new Product Safety Bill is at present at a very advanced stage. That legislation will for the first time introduce a general requirement to trade in safe goods throughout all stages of preparation. I can inform the House that that Bill is at an early stage of preparation.
Let me ask the Minister of State two questions. Would he not agree that it might help in increasing public assurance in this area if the Consumers' Association of Ireland were represented on the standards body who do a lot of work in this area? If the Minister of State is worried about harmonisation in an EC context, perhaps he would listen to the EC recommendation in this respect which, if implemented, would ensure that the Consumers' Association of Ireland were represented on the standards body as is the case in most other European countries. Secondly, as the Minister of State is no doubt aware of recent deficiencies in funding for the same association, would he be willing to consider allocating some funds from the national lottery to this body?
That has already been dealt with.
I would remind the Deputy that Question No. 8 on the Order Paper asks if I would make financial assistance available to the Consumers Association of Ireland and I informed the House that that was not my intention.
That would seem to dispose of questions——
I asked the Minister of State two questions and let me say with respect that I am not particularly interested in the issuing of edicts. I would be grateful if the Minister of State could explain the rationale behind his decision.
I am not prepared to go on unduly long on any question. I have given Deputy Keating every latitude in this regard.
You have given me some latitude.
The Deputy has had nearly 15 minutes on it.
I have had ten minutes to be precise. Could I have a reply to the second part of my question?
I want this question to come to finality forthwith.
I did give a full explanation in my initial reply to Question No. 8. We have had a full debate on the request from the Consumer's Association of Ireland. In regard to the Deputy's second point, I will consider whether the Consumers' Association of Ireland can be invited to be represented on the standards body.
That disposes of ordinary questions and questions nominated for priority for today.