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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Jun 1988

Vol. 382 No. 7

Estimates, 1988. - Vote 31: Marine (Revised Estimate).

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £23,124,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1988, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for the Marine, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payments of certain grants and sundry grants-in-aid.

The Department of the Marine have completed their first year of operation and I believe that substantial progress has been made during this short period. Previously, responsibility for marine and marine-related activities rested with no fewer than nine different Departments and this fragmentation led to the absence of a comprehensive cohesive marine policy. Fianna Fáil promised to end this unsatisfactory situation——

On a point of order, I wonder is there a copy of the Minister's script around?

Copies are available. There is much more in the script that is circulated to keep Deputies fully informed of the situation. I will be moving through it as quickly as possible to cover the essential elements in the speech.

Immediately we were voted into office, the Department of the Marine was set up. The main functions are reflected in the structures of the new Department, with divisions dealing with sea-fishing, inland fisheries and recreation, aquaculture, maritime safety, marine shipping and legislation. This year has seen a number of major developments in the marine area. (1) The Programme for National Recovery set out ambitious targets for output and employment for the sea fisheries sector. A plan for the accelerated development of this sector is well advanced. (2) A framework has been provided for the development of the aquaculture industry and 1988 will see the establishment of a sound licensing system for projects in the industry which will facilitate greater output and more jobs. (3) I am working towards the rationalisation of the inland fisheries and putting the funding and the development of the industry on a more sound footing. (4) Legislation has been introduced for the protection of the marine environment. I have set up a programme for the systematic investigation of the marine environment with a view to ensuring that the high quality of the environment is maintained. (5) I have directed that a programme to enhance marine safety be put in place. The priorities of that programme are improved communications at sea and increased emphasis on ferry safety and supervision. (6) Finally, I have Government approval for the establishment of a marine institute. This will bring together under one body activities carried out by a wide range of State funded organisations. The heads of a Bill for the marine institute have been prepared and the Bill will be drafted as soon as possible to give a statutory basis to these proposals.

In the Programme for National Recovery, the Government put particular emphasis on the potential of the fishing industry to generate growth in the economy. The Government's programme recognised that a properly planned approach to the exploitation of our sea fisheries was essential and offered a very significant opportunity for economic expansion and job creation. For this reason, Bord Iascaigh Mhara have prepared a development plan in conjunction with my Department covering the expansion of our sea fisheries resource up to the end of 1991. It is the Government's intention that the plan will revitalise all sectors involved in fishing and, above all, instil a new confidence and competitiveness into the industry.

The plan addresses specifically those issues which have inhibited expansion, sets objectives and strategies aimed at redressing these problems and will point the way to new opportunities and job creation in fishing. One of the key strategies in the plan will be a planned approach to fleet modernisation which is essential in order to reduce the high age profile of our fleet. In view of the enormous potential for expansion in aquaculture with particular stress on added value, I have asked the board to give this sector particular attention. I have also asked that exploratory fishing be given increased attention, and particularly that such fishing in our more distant west coast waters should be encouraged with a view to rapidly developing new fisheries in those waters.

The fish processing industry is a vital element in any strategy for the fish sector. Supplies have been a major constraint to the development of the sector. I intend to pursue every possibility — quota fish, non-quota fish, fishing in third country waters, imports and aquaculture to maximise the supplies to the country's fish processing industry. Marketing, processing and related product quality issues will feature prominently in the plan as it is apparent that, with increased landings and expansion in fish farming, it will be imperative that we adopt a much more co-ordinated and dynamic approach in the market place.

My Department, together with the various State development agencies concerned, have been considering in recent months how best to optimise the further development of the fish processing sector. There are already indications indeed that the sector is about to enter a significant new phase, one characterised by greater integration, operational scale, cohesiveness and professionalism. In my view, the task of the State agencies will be to encourage and accelerate such trends. All future State support to the sector will, therefore, be directed towards achieving the objective of building a strong internationally competitive fish processing sector.

More detailed criteria governing future State assistance to the sector will be made available shortly. I am confident that as a result of the policies and objectives now proposed and shortly to be published, up to 800 new jobs can be created over the next three-year period in fish processing. Already indeed, within the past six months, approximately 70 new jobs have been created in the sector. Naturally, this type of planned development will entail a very significant level of investment by the industry. The Government for their part will help stimulate this investment through the provision of Exchequer assistance. It will be the Government's aim to ensure the maximum take-up and the effective use of all available EC structural funding.

On the quotas issue, while we are constrained by the common fisheries policy every effort is being made to improve our position. I am pressing for increases in the fish allocation and have received indications that the situation for herring and mackerel will be reviewed during the year. In 1987 we obtained an extra 10,000 tonnes of mackerel for Irish fishermen by swapping quantities of unused quotas of other species. I would like here to pay tribute to the industry for its co-operation in our stock management programme without which co-operation it would be more difficult to operate.

Deputies will be aware of the difficulties facing Ireland arising from activities of the so-called "flag of convenience" vessels. The matter has been pursued through the European Courts and while not wishing to prejudice any further legal actions, I feel that a recent judgment by the Court of Justice in Ireland's favour offers real hope for the future solution of the problem. The matter was also raised by me on a number of occasions at the Council of Fisheries Ministers and during the EC Commissioner for Fisheries visit to Ireland on a fact finding visit in 1987. In response to my intervention the Commission have accepted the serious nature of the problem and have circulated for consideration a proposal to address the matter. While the proposal does not in our initial view deal adequately with the problem of "quota hopping", the matter is being pursued at working group level.

Substantial progress was made on the ground in 1987 and is continuing to be made this year in the enforcement of existing controls on quality standards within the fishing industry. While the preparation and enactment of legislation is important, I decided that the first priority was to improve the situation on the ground. This will, through surveys and other evaluatory exercises, help us produce a new up-to-date marketing Bill.

My Department's quality control programme contains the following elements: The shellfish monitoring programme, which commenced in September 1985, continued and was expanded in 1987, so that at this stage samples of water and shellfish are taken from over 50 sampling points and analysed for microbiological parameters every two weeks. The objectives of the programme are to classify shellfish producing waters and to establish a comprehensive procedure whereby the quality of shellfish and shellfish producing waters is monitored and controlled. This programme, as with similar programmes in other European countries, is modelled on the American National Shellfish Sanitation Programme, and allows for the greatest flexibility without any diminution in safety and quality standards.

In 1987, I had completed a comprehensive survey of hygiene standards in approximately 80 per cent of fish processing premises, in order to improve the levels of operational and structural hygiene. In many cases a large proportion of required improvements and alterations have been completed. My Department's sea fishery and fish quality officers continue to monitor the progress being made and report to the Department.

A programme to inspect fishing vessels started in 1987, during which 40-50 per cent of vessels were examined. Remedial works and changes in hygiene practices were specified in the course of these inspections.

In relation to the Department's strengthening of fish inspection systems to make them more effective, the Department last year initiated comprehensive and ongoing training programmes for the sea fishery officers and the fish quality officers. This year, as part of the programme, the officers received further intensive training on a wide range of areas relating to fish quality including microbiology, biochemistry, fish pathology, refrigeration and facilities design. Additional follow-up training is planned for later this year. Other elements of the quality control programme include the improvement of standards in ice-plants and purification plants.

I believe that what will ultimately determine the profitability of the fishing and fish-processing industries are the quality of the product and the ability to meet the requirements of the consumer. My Department will be stepping up their efforts with all sides of the fishing industry to improve these factors.

My Department have responsibility under the Fisheries Act, 1980, for the regulation of aquaculture in the State. To date 14 areas have been designated while five further areas are being considered for possible designation. I am taking steps to improve the availability of information for the public in respect of aquaculture. In particular, I have asked BIM and Údarás na Gaeltachta to prepare video material which might serve as a basis for informing the general public about aquaculture development in areas where designation is being considered. I intend to arrange a new series of hearings later in the year and this I hope will lead to further designations being made.

Some concern has been expressed in recent times in relation to my Department's policy on fish farming in lakes, particularly those in the west. I am glad to have this opportunity to restate my policy on this issue in order to allay fears and correct misapprehensions. Aquaculture projects are not permitted in lakes where there are major wild fisheries, that is, trout and salmon. I regard these as a valuable natural resource to be fully developed in their own right. No permits have been issued for full scale fish farming projects by my Department.

I have recently undertaken a critical examination of the concept of smolt rearing in lakes generally. The requirements for smolts for the aquaculture industry should to the greatest extent possible be met in the future from land-based facilities using pumpted or gravity fed water. As I recently indicated to the House, there are eight applications with my Department at present for smolt rearing projects in lakes. Each application on hands will be examined personally by me in line with the policy I have outlined above.

In 1983 we produced 250 tonnes of farmed salmon. By 1987 this figure rose to 2,500 tonnes, the bulk of which were exported. That is just one example of the room there is for development and expansion in that area and the necessity for pressing ahead with developments along the lines I have indicated.

Aquaculture of fish and shellfish under intensive farming conditions is growing very rapidly in Irish coastal waters. Because of these intensive conditions farmed fish and shellfish are exposed to greater risks from outbreaks of disease than they would be under intensive natural conditions. We can expect the variety of diseases to increase, just as they did in the case of intensive farm animal husbandry, thus exposing the industry to the possibility of outbreaks of disease caused by mortality. It is therefore essential that a national disease diagnostic and therapeutic service is available to the aquaculture industry and my Department consider this to have a priority rating in their work to promote and improve this rapidly growing sector of the fishing industry.

Particular emphasis will be given to disease avoidance by the use of controlled feeding diets and improved husbandry. At the same time vaccination techniques and therapeutic treatments will be utilised to prevent or cure diseases which in the recent past have proved to be fatal.

The people going into the aquaculture business today are better trained than ever before. The regional technical colleges, universities and An Bord Iascaigh Mhara have developed training courses specially designed to cater for the needs of this industry. I have established a high level aquaculture management committee chaired by my Department comprising senior executives of BIM and Údarás na Gaeltachta. The task of that committee is to galvanise and co-ordinate the efforts of Government Departments and agencies to improve the interface with FEOGA and to ensure that aid applications are properly prepared and presented to the European Community. The arrangements are designed to assure that aid applications are properly prepared and presented to the European Community. The arrangements are designed to ensure that the returns to the economy in terms of employment, output and exports can be maximised.

The contribution which aquaculture can make to economic development does not begin and end with rearing fish. As it develops I hope that the industry will become integrated with more and more inputs being generated within our own economy. At present our main import requirements are seed stock, cages, equipment and fish feed. Ireland is now almost completely self-sufficient in terms of supplying salmon smolts for ongrowing in sea cages and the importation of smolts has practically been suspended for disease prevention reasons. There are a number of new hatcheries for shellfish and finfish which are now coming on stream and these should be able to meet the increasing demand for stocks.

A number of companies in Ireland now manufacture various types of fish cages and all types of floats and mooring equipment for the industry. Some of these have also developed highly profitable export markets for their equipment.

At present there are 330 full-time and 1,040 part-time workers employed in aquaculture. The Government's target is that by 1991 output will almost treble, full-time employment will be 1,100 and part-time employment will be 2,300. This additional employment is crucial to areas where fish processing will be developed as physical factors have made most other types of industrial development difficult to establish.

I would like to put on the record my determination to secure the maximum commitment from Europe to this industry. With the coming into force of the Single European Act and the new emphasis on targeting the peripheral regions, I think that sea fisheries, and especially aquaculture, represents an ideal candidate as a conduit for development funds which can be productively used. My Department are taking a number of initiatives to ensure that our industry and its potential is properly understood in Brussels and that projects are presented in the best possible light.

Inland fisheries are widely acknowledged as one of our finest natural resources and the Government are committed to developing this resource with a view to creating additional employment. Recognising the importance of the inland fisheries resource, I was determined to establish a framework which provided additional finance to the boards to supplement the Exchequer grant. Licences have been required for salmon angling since the middle of the nineteenth century. Trout, coarse fish and sea anglers were enabled under the Fisheries Act, 1980, to register on a voluntary basis which enabled them to contribute towards the cost of administration of fisheries and also to participate in the management of the fisheries boards. A very small minority of trout and coarse fish anglers registered. The registration fee introduced in 1980 was £5, which was increased to £9.50 in 1985. In 1986 only 4,000 registered.

With even fewer this year.

The revised angling licensing system provides an alternative source of income to the fisheries boards and allows anglers to contribute to inland fisheries development through the payment of moderate charges. Persons under 18 years and those aged 66 and over do not require licences to fish for trout or coarse fish. I wish to emphasise that all the revenue from the licences will be collected locally and used in local areas for conservation, protection and development of fishing. I would point out that the revenue from the new system represents only a fraction of Government expenditure on inland fishing. A licensing system is therefore clearly justified on economic and social grounds. It is fair to say that those who benefit from State expenditure in this way should make a contribution towards the cost. It would be unfair in these difficult times to expect the tax-payer to continue bearing the full burden.

As I have said, the moneys accure to the local boards for spending in local areas and not as general tax revenue. Ownership rights are not at all affected by the licence arrangement — the payment of a salmon licence is long established and accepted. A licence is a requirement to use a rod to fish but it conveys no right whatsoever to fish, no more than a gun licence gives shooting rights to a licence holder. There is no question, as I have again explained today, of placing cages in our major natural fisheries lakes.

Despite repeated explanations of these facts to those concerned, the campaign against the licence continues in certain parts of the country and is backed up by offensive signs and intimidation. These tactics are unacceptable and shortsighted. They are out of all proportion to the issue at stake and not only will these people damage their own livelihoods but also their neighbours' livelihoods. I accept, of course, that many of those opposed to the licence have no time or part in the campaign of intimidation. My Department and I have been working tirelessly to identify common ground with responsible anglers within the framework of the legislation. A positive partnership dedicated to exploit the full potential of inland fisheries is the only way forward; but to yield to the demands of people who intimidate their neighbours, damage the livelihood of people and attempt to hold the tourist industry hostage would be to do a major disservice to the democratic institutions and the rule of law.

In November 1987 I received a report of the salmon review group. I have accepted the objectives set out in the report and I am confident that these objectives will form a firm foundation on which the future development of the salmon industry can be based. I published the report earlier this year and in view of the importance of the proposed reforms I invited interested parties to submit their views not later than 31 March of this year. These submissions are currently being considered and appropriate action will be taken.

My Department have been given a special responsiblity to promote marine related leisure activites and I intend to pursue vigorously the provision of marina and leisure facilities without State assistance around our coastline. I recently set up a planning review group for the Dún Laoghaire harbour area and this group will make sure that the long-term as well as the short-term options for the development of the harbour are properly examined and planned.

In regard to pollution control, the Oil Pollution of the Sea (Civil Liability and Compensation) Bill was enacted into law this year. A further Bill is in the course of preparation to strengthen the law dealing with the discharges of oil from ships. The Water Pollution (Amendment) Bill, 1987, which is being prepared by my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, will increase the penalties for pollution under the Fisheries Acts and require the pollutor to make good the damage caused.

In regard to maritime safety, my Department are presently improving the number and standard of VHF coastal radio stations in order to reduce the risks and dangers of using the sea. The Government consider that the provision of a 24 hour listening watch on VHF distress and emergency channels in all coastal areas is the single most effective contribution they can make to the safety of life at sea. A programme for the provision of further services in that area is already under way with the modernisation of the stations in Howth, Dungarvan, Rosslare and Belmullet. I established a National Ferry Safety Committee on October 1987, representative of senior technical officers of the Irish ferry companies and the marine survey office of my Department, to review safety procedures and standards on board Irish registered roll-on roll-off ferries.

I have included in my speech some other areas of importance which Deputies will be interested in. I commend the Estimate to the House.

An Estimate debate is an occasion on which to review aspects of the past year, in this case the development of marine issues generally. Regrettably, one of the main marine matters that springs to mind when looking over the past few months is the rod angling dispute. If the time and energy which has been invested in attempting to resolve the difficulties which the Fisheries (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1987, has caused for angling tourism had been invested in a development plan for inland fisheries with the proper structures and financial investment, with pollution control measures and an honest attempt made to come to terms with the illicit drift netting which is devastating our stocks of wild Atlantic salmon, I believe the Government would not be facing the hostility of the anglers, which is but a symptom of a far greater problem — the serious and insidious decline in angling through the neglect by successive Governments of an industry which is capable of contributing enormously to our GNP through tourist revenue.

A recent report and statistical analysis carried out by the ESRI points out the potential a properly developed angling tourist industry could have for this country. Price Waterhouse in a recent report underlined the potential — the millions of anglers in the UK, Europe and the US, not to mention further afield — and our present paltry share of that angling tourist market. As a special activity holiday we have all the ingredients to put our inland fisheries on the world map: 8,600 miles of main channel river, 360,000 acres of lakes, the climate, the accommodation and a country which is relatively pollution free. We have what money alone cannot buy — an indigenous product that needs no imported raw material for priming.

I ask the Minister to put on record the Government's plans for the regional boards. What are the plans for the report of the Salmon Review Group, which was much awaited, now long since published, but as yet not acted upon? We have had submissions on that report, a report I welcome in so far at it goes. Will tagging and quotas for salmon be introduced for next year's season? How will these quotas be arrived at? Who will monitor this system? Answers to these questions are urgently needed. Will this report be destined for a shelf, to be relatively undisturbed in future years, like many previous reports on salmon? The report of the Fisheries Commission, 1933-35, is gathering dust somewhere. We had the report on the Inland Fisheries Commission, 1975; the report of the Inland Fisheries Commission on the Strategy for Management and Development, 1986; ESRI Papers 68, 75, 78 and 100, all of which direct their attention towards salmon; the report from the Committee on Public Expenditure, 1986; the Hunter Report, 1965, from Scotland; the Hansen Report, 1986 from Norway; the Salmon Management Plan, 1985, from Canada and the recent report of the Biarritz Salmon Conference, 1986.

We are not short of reports or recommendations, we are not short of direction on what we should do and how we should go about it. All of these reports have pointed out what needs to be done. At the very least, the bottom line is that there should be strict control of drift netting at sea. I wonder if this House has got what it takes to make the right decisions and follow them through?

The differences on these issues, to be quite honest and frank, are not party political; they are within each party. To date, no Government have recognised that time is running out. If our salmon cannot return to their rivers to spawn, there will be no tomorrow for the anglers, let alone the driftnet men. This is the real issue behind the present protest. The licences were the last straw to a group who had witnessed the insidious decline of their sport, a sport which they hold so dear. I ask again if the Members of this House have the political will to do what so many reports have told us is necessary?

Anglers, in particular in the West, fear the licensing system which was introduced last December. It was introduced on the basis of assurances from the Minister that the Coarse Fishing Federation and the Trout Anglers' Federation of Ireland supported the Bill — I quote the Minister's words — not supported licences in principle or gave conditional support for the Bill, but the Minister stated categorically that TAFI and the Coarse Fishing Federation supported the Bill. The Bill means the Bill in its entirety, the Bill as presented by the Minister. As we know, major difficulties have resulted from the Minister's interpretation of what TAFI and the Coarse Fishing Federation supported and this has been far from clarified to date.

Anglers fear the Bill because they regard it as a means of ultimately controlling where and when they may fish, apart altogether from being a revenue collection mechanism. A licence is seen as revocable by the licensor, or the Government in this instance, without any legal redress by the licensee or angler. The anglers fear that the Minister, or some other Minister at some stage, could use this system to preclude angling on our game lakes, for example, in Loughs Corrib, Mask and Cong, so as to make way for fish farming. I know the Minister's views on this but I am afraid the anglers do not trust us in this House. Even if I was giving the assurances the Minister is giving, I doubt if they would be received any better. The track record of successive Governments in relation to inland fisheries has been so bad that the Minister is mistrusted, and I imagine if any of the rest of us were in the Minister's position we would perhaps be equally mistrusted. The Minister is heading up this issue at present and I have to say quite frankly that the anglers mistrust his assurances or any statements he makes in relation to this matter because of the appalling track record over the years.

It is hard for me to express, or for any of us to appreciate, the depth of feeling that has been generated on this issue or to realise the bitter divisions and entrenchment that has taken place. To show their good faith, the anglers are now collecting money voluntarily from their members. I urge the Minister to remove the licence concept from the legislation and to replace it with a contribution system for trout and coarse fishing, a contribution which the anglers have already proved they are willing to pay. I have a Bill on the Order Paper which endeavours to do just that but because of the six-month rule I was prevented until this week from moving it. As this is the last week of Private Members' Time during this session it was not possible, even if the Minister and the Government were to agree to the First Stage, which apparently they were not, to get the Bill published and circulated in time for a Private Members' discussion at 7 p.m. on Tuesday last.

I, and I am sure many other Members of this House, will spend the summer months pursuing agreement with all those who care and understand the real issues, with those who bother to analyse the real issues rather than the politics of the situation, with those who want an honourable solution to this most destructive of disputes which is doing so much damage to our tourist economy, particularly in the west and in Munster.

I asked the Minister to indicate what he has in mind for our regional boards. I put it to him that the Government are reneging on their responsibility to the regional boards who are impotent in the face of organised poaching and vicious attacks on their members. Witness the appalling spectacle in Donegal last weekend where two fishery protection officers were savagely beaten and ended up being hospitalised. What steps has the Minister or his Department taken this week to ensure that this will not be repeated in the Northern Fishery Board area or in any board region? Is it true that but for the contribution of the Donegal Salmon and Inshore Fishermen's Association there would be no protection at all in that regional board area?

I turn my attention now to another matter that has caused many problems in the last year, that is our lack of success in relation to FEOGA applications under the new structures policy. In 1987, in the December tranche, for the first time Irish fishermen and fish farmers were let down badly by the Commission in relation to grants in the new structures policy, despite the fact that Commissioner Cordosa y Cunha, whom I had the pleasure to meet, visited Ireland last July at the invitation of the Minister. It may be coincidental, but it was a major shock to the industry subsequently to find Ireland at the bottom of the pile of recipients. From correspondence that I entered into and a response that I received from the Commissioner himself, it would appear that the EC's reasons for our lack of success were based on the rate of takeup of previous grants and, as the Commission view it, unfavourable cost-benefit analysis of Irish agricultural applications when compared with other applicant countries.

It appears that the Commission did not know that the technology being used on our west coast to stand up to the rigours of meteorological and tidal conditions was the most advanced in Europe. I refer specifically to those applications involving bridgestone cages. Apparently the Commission, instead of admitting that a comparative analysis was not possible, rejected our applications. It is obvious that proper dialogue, based on good communications between the applicants and the Commission, via the relevant sections in the Department of the Marine, was missing.

Again, in the April tranche for FEOGA applications we are bottom of the pile. We have but an 18 per cent success rate, the lowest of all applicant countries. I earnestly hope that this communication difficulty has now been resolved. I await the tranche of September of this year to see evidence of the Commission's support for this most important growth industry.

Commercial fish farming has shown phenomenal growth in the last few years. A huge increase in the tonnage of farmed salmon is perhaps the best known statistic, involving sea cages and land based water systems. Sensitive development, in sympathy with environmental considerations and other water-based users is essential, particularly in inland waters, close to the shore line and in bays and estuaries. Where the technology is available, areas of greatest water dilution should be chosen, especially the open sea.

I look forward to monitoring the progress of the very latest farm ocean cages for salmon which are built to withstand the rigours of the waves in the open sea. If this is proved to be the way forward — and time will tell — aquaculture will continue to make an enormous contribution to our GNP for a long time to come and will be most important from a socio-economic viewpoint, especially on our west coast. Aquaculture, or fish farming, is not all about salmon — important as that aspect is. We have rainbow trout, fresh water and sea water, oyster fisheries and oyster farms, extensive and intensive cultivation of mussels, eels, scallops and clams. I must pause to pay a special tribute to the Carna Research Laboratory for their enormous contribution to this industry through their extensive research and development on various species. Abalone, the most highly prized of all, could be the next for commercial farming. I am delighted that in recent weeks the difficulty of the uncertain funding of this laboratory appears to have been resolved. I ask the Minister to outline exactly how Carna will dovetail into his oft-heralded Marine Research Centre. Apparently, there will be no one centre as such, but a closer liaison between existing centres, including the Fisheries Research Centre at Abbottstown.

Excellent work is done at the Fisheries Research Centre, particularly in the area of disease control and fish pathology. Given the potential of this area in aquaculture especially, and the difficulties that arose in the last year in relation to the second outbreak of bonamia ostrea in Clew Bay — detected by French officials, not ourselves — we must question if sufficient resources, especially in terms of manpower, are being allocated. One fish pathologist has an impossible task, given the workload, and far more could be done if the manpower were available.

There is another aspect of FEOGA funding that is causing me concern, especially when taken in conjunction with the average age of our fishing fleet. It appears that the goalposts have been moved by the Commission and an arbitrary age restriction has been introduced for grants for refurbishing and modernisation of vessels. The age limit is difficult to determine, but appears to be between 15 and 20 years and any vessel over this age will not qualify for a grant. Given that the average age of our average sized vessel is 30 years, this is an appalling change in the ground rules. This fact, together with the failure of the Commission to allow any grant for new vessel construction at all until all states reduce their gross registered tonnage, augurs very badly for our fishing industry, which we claim has such potential, such a future.

I put the question to the Minister: with the penally restrictive quotas for the more important species, no grants now for new vessels and the decrease demanded in our gross registered tonnage of up to 16 per cent by 1991, with the age structure of our present fleet, with licences being issued on a basis of equivalent tonnage being sold out of State or, in the case of beamers not at all, with the ongoing difficulty of flags of convenience, what future has our fishing industry? The Minister's party claimed that they would resolve the quota restrictions as a priority on assuming office. We await action. They have failed miserably to keep their word. I was present when the Commissioner and the Director General told the Minister not to look for a greater percentage of the total allowable catch, on which our quota is based now, in 1992 or thereafter. It was not on.

The Deputy to conclude.

In conclusion, I want the Minister to be able to deliver on his party's promises in this area but, most importantly, I want him to be frank and honest with the fishermen around our coast who have no quotas, no licences, no grants for new vessels or refurbishing of old ones. Have they a future in this industry, or was their future sold out in the Common Fisheries Policy negotiations to safeguard agricultural interests in this country?

On a point of information, could you tell us when this debate is to end?

Acting Chairman

At 5 p.m., with an interruption for Question Time.

In debating the Marine Estimate today, and looking down through the figures as published, taking into account the most recent debate last night in relation to income for the Department of the Marine, I am struck by the fact that there are a number of increases in the non-productive areas of that Department. Salaries and wages at the Department headquarters are up by 19 per cent, machinery expenses are up by 31 per cent, office premises expenses are up by 40 per cent and the other funds, such as the inland fishery funds, are reduced by 15 per cent.

We have had a few discussions and a few ideas from the Fine Gael spokesperson, Deputy Doyle, on the question of rod licences. I do not want to dwell on that subject. Suffice to say that we are all worried to a certain extent about the detrimental effect that the ongoing dispute is having. All I can say on this matter is that we offered the House last night an opportunity to support a Bill which we felt would provide a cooling off period which I believe is necessary at the moment, to allow the Minister to negotiate an agreed settlement.

That is dishonest of the Deputy. A Bill could not be debated until the autumn, even if it had passed First Stage last night.

Let it be debated in the autumn.

Do not raise hopes when so many will suffer. I have a Bill to be debated in the autumn, also.

Acting Chairman

Deputy McCoy should be allowed to speak.

It is a con job.

I had telephone calls yesterday from every fishery group in the country——

Because the Deputy fooled them.

——supporting our position.

The Deputy knows perfectly well the position in relation to the six months rule in this House.

Another U-turn by Deputy O'Malley.

The position was made quite clear——

Anyone will go for the easier option.

I had telephone calls from every fishery group yesterday supporting our position. We explained to them that we had no time for debate and that the only way it could be implemented was if the Fine Gael Party were prepared to take it up and run with it. I had at least five telephone conversations yesterday from the Leinster branch, the Munster branch, a midlands branch and from two Connacht branches.

What branches?

Branches of the Irish Trout Anglers' Federation, the Irish Fishermen's Association and many others. They all made the same point, that last night gave the Government a chance to renegotiate.

The Bill could not have been debated this session.

Having missed that chance, no one can shed crocodile tears in the House today because the damage is done.

That is right.

I commend the Minister on a strategy which seeks to bring together all the different elements of the marine and fisheries, which were fragmented heretofore. It is important to have an overall strategy and plan. Like every other industry based on indigenous raw materials, for too long there has been a lack of planning and, as a consequence, market return because we have been at the bottom end of the market and subject to commodity prices. That can be said in relation to our sea fish, dairy products, beef and other products based on natural resources. Undoubtedly, there is room for improvement.

We must be very careful when we talk about a fish processing industry and the creation of jobs. There have been a number of production disasters in the past 12 months, including a very big one in Galway. I am not attributing that to the Department of the Marine but we must look to our strengths and make the best use of them. We must not be looking purely for added costs, we must also look for added value which is not a question of added costs. Our fish quotas are miserable in comparison to our length of coastline. However, those quotas, to a certain extent, are based on historical facts and low catches when we joined the EC and the Common Fisheries Policy was put together.

The same could be said about other products. For argument's sake, our milk quota is half that of Holland although we have four times its land mass. There is no point in looking backwards at bases on which today's quotas were established. We must try to take a different approach and, in doing so, we must emphasise how disadvantaged areas, the public and the economy in general can contribute to the situation in relation to income in a country which is hard-pressed for natural resources. If we make that kind of advance in future we have some chance of getting our quotas increased. We do not have much chance of having them increased by beating our breasts and making comparisons with countries which have far greater quotas than ours, even if it appears to be unfair. It is up to us to develop what we have and to make a stronger case for getting more.

It is sometimes overlooked, within the context of the EC, that the EC wants to be in a position to pay out as little money as it can by way of supporting economies. It is far more inclined to help economies to support themselves and it is along these lines that we should be making our case to Brussels.

The Minister referred to fish processing and FEOGA grants. I am reliably informed that many of the difficulties with the FEOGA grants are that we have understated the value of the industry to this country. There is a feeling in Brussels that the marine in general is on the periphery of business in our economy. It may be in terms of income in relation to GNP but, in terms of its importance to areas with little or no other natural resource, it is of paramount importance. The Minister should be exploring every instrument available to him under the Common Agricultural Policy to see if he can get aid in terms of development and, in a two-prong attack, try to get our quotas increased. He could use the argument that if we had a better marine industry we would be more self-sufficient, which would benefit the EC as well as Ireland.

Aquaculture, diseases and pollution must be considered in terms of our national attitude to pollution. There is irrefutable evidence that badly managed salmon farms and their over-intensification in waters which do not have the necessary turbulence to keep them purified, are a risk to wild species. My information is that there are certain numbers of such farms in this country and that all the wild and natural species have disappeared from the waters in those areas.

The amount of money allocated for harbour development is pitiful in terms of the Minister's stated objective. I advise him to rethink in regard to estuarial authorities because there is no doubt that in Europe today thinking has changed in relation to these authorities. Estuarial authorities affect about 5 per cent of the cost of operating ports and the other 95 per cent is not addressed. Ports located outside European estuarial authorities in northern, non-European countries, are taking the business from them and the imports and exports are being ferried overland to and from these ports because costs are so cheap. Going through the port of Dublin at the monent puts 20 per cent on to the factory gate price of products exported from here. Neither an estuarial authority nor a bureaucratic board can address this problem. It can only be solved by free competition. I would exhort the Minister to think carefully about this.

When the House adjourns at 2.30 p.m. for Questions, I will have five minutes afterwards?

Acting Chairman

Yes.

I am always delighted when this Estimate comes before the House because it gives an opportunity to deal with the practical matters that affect fishermen. Whatever Deputies may think, drift-netting is a fact of life. It is handed down from generation to generation. The Government cannot take away something that has been handed down for years. It is all very fine if we introduce stringent laws on drift-netting, but are England, Scotland, the Faroes or Iceland prepared to do it?

Deputy Avril Doyle is, anyway.

Avril Doyle put Deputy McCoy in his place a few minutes ago when Deputy O'Malley made another U-turn. Of course, he brought back God and now he wants to bring back the other thing, like Deputy McCoy. We understand how embarrassed Deputy McCoy must be at the moment and I am sorry he is leaving the House.

Drift-netting is a fact of life, and I would ask the Minister to bear that in mind in introducing legislation. The Minister should at least have consultation with the people involved. The Minister published a very glossy book called the Salmon Review Group Report or something like that. The personnel in the group reminded me more of the Donnybrook set than anything else. It is comprised of people from the high echelons of the Fianna Fáil Party or senior civil servants who might meet at the golf club. There was not even one fisherman in the review group.

I did not set that up. It was set up by your outfit.

I do not know who set it up, but whoever set it up was on cloud nine if he thought that a report compiled by such people would be acceptable. The report is completely out of touch, like the people who wrote it.

In relation to the future of our fishing industry, particularly our shell fishing industry, I understand that there is a new net called the tangle net which is being extensively used to catch cray fish. Deputy Collins, who has just arrived, will be a fair authority on what "tangle" means as far as greyhounds and that sort of thing is concerned.

It is a catch all situation.

This tangle net will completely destroy the shell fish industry unless the Minister introduces legislation immediately. The tangle net is set and left for a couple of days. The cray fish wander into it and at that stage of its life the cray fish is beginning to shed its shell. It is weak and a prey for other fish. It is killed immediately. If this is to continue there will be no shell fish, lobster or cray fish along this coast. I would ask the Department officials to take an urgent look at that problem.

Will the Minister also look seriously at the people who are diving for lobster and cary fish and will he have the regulations implemented? A number of people, particularly foreigners, are diving extensively for lobster and other shell fish. Perhaps the Minister would have the corvette or the Garda Síochána monitor those people. While listening to Radio na Gaeltachta this morning I heard about two Dingle fishing trawlers being caught for drift net fishing off the Kerry coast. I wonder if the corvette is to be anchored off West Kerry? Deputy Gallagher, now Minister of State at the Department of the Marine when in opposition made a very serious attack on the Naval Service and said that the corvette was anchored off the coast of Donegal. It is a well-known fact that a very senior spokesperson for the fishermen in Donegal wrote to the Department complaining that the corvette was not anchored off Kerry but was all the time anchored off Donegal. Did the Minister issue strict instructions through Deputy Michael Noonan to the Department of Defence? I understand that there has been a small amount of friction between the Ministers in Limerick about the estuarial authority. Perhaps they agreed to compromise by landing the corvette down around Kerry. Perhaps the Minister might ask Deputy Michael Noonan not to harass the Kerry fishermen.

Are you suggesting that the law should not be applicable on an even basis?

I am suggesting that those who have eyes should look everywhere and not just the one way. They are not suffering from glaucoma or anything like that.

Like Caesar's wife.

Minister Collins, I have just 15 minutes. I have a few points to make. In relation to EC quotas, I am very disappointed that the bargaining power of our Minister, his Minister of State and his officials in Brussels has been a big disappointment to everybody. When the present Government were in Opposition they told the fishermen that, if a proper bargaining team was sent to Brussels week after week, quotas would be substantially increased. What has happened? They have been drastically reduced.

I am very seriously concerned that senior officials of BIM are now going to Brussels with all the cards the Minister used to have stacked up for his bargaining process in Brussels. The Minister is now meeting these officials on the other side of the table and they already know his hand. The Minister cannot even play poker with them because they know what the Minister has in his hand. There should be some restriction on officials, whether civil servants or semi-State officials, so that when they go into the public service they cannot be in opposition to the Government of the day, particularly when they are privy to confidential information or files. I am seriously concerned about that aspect.

A glaring omission from the Minister's speech was the failure to give any word of encouragement to fishermen's wives and families on the west coast, from Donegal to south-west Cork. The Minister had a glorious opportunity coming in here this morning to announce that he has now decided to recommend to the Minister for Defence that a helicopter should be based on the west coast. We all know of the very serious tragedy that took place in Donegal in the last few days. It was one of many. I am sure this House will extend its deepest sympathy to the relatives of those involved. It would allay the anxiety of many fishermen's families, families who must pay insurance, hire purchase repayments and so on, if the Minister would say when replying that the Government are seríously considering basing a helicopter either in Shannon or in Galway. Will the Minister say a few words on that when replying?

Another matter that seriously concerns me relates to a question I had on 27 January 1988, "To ask the Minister for the Marine if he would investigate reports of serious pollution at Mulroy Bay in County Donegal due to fish farming and if he will confirm that white fish no longer spawn there". The response I got from the Minister was as follows:

My Department has in the past investigated reports of pollution in Mulroy Bay due to the use of Tributyltin Oxide on installations. As a result of these and other investigations I have restricted by means of a by-law under the Fisheries Acts the use of antifouling compounds — the most commonly known of which is TBT — on certain boats or any part of a pier, jetty, building or other structure, etc. which is on or in the sea or in freshwater. In addition, this restriction will be a condition——

Note the phrase.

—of Aquaculture Licences issued by my Department.

My Department has however information for 1987 that species such as dabs, plaice, pollock, wrasse and smelts spawned in Mulroy Bay in that year, and that there was a good settlement of scallops.

I am seriously concerned about that question.

Debate adjourned.
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