asked the Minister for Justice the present stage of negotiations regarding the free movement of lawyers within the EC; and if his Department is seeking the retention of an examination procedure for lawyers from other EC States wishing to work here.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Mobility of Lawyers in EC.
1.
I assume that the Deputy is referring to negotiations on the proposal for an EC Council Directive on a general system for the mutual recognition of higher-education diplomas which would include the qualifications of lawyers and of other professional groups.
I understand that at a meeting of Internal Market Ministers in Luxembourg on 22 June 1988 the Council agreed the substantive provisions of the Directive. It will now be sent to the European Parliament for a second reading.
Until the Directive has been finally adopted, I am not in a position to say how it will operate in practice for lawyers. However, I can say that my Department has been pressing for the inclusion in the Directive of a provision for a test for lawyers to assess their ability to pursue their profession in the other member state where they wish to practice. I am glad to say that this has now been accepted by the EC Council.
I apologise to the Minister, with the permission of Deputy McCoy, if the question was not clear. It seems to me that what we should be talking about here is professional standards and not so much higher education diplomas but that those who are already practising would be allowed to have free movement within the Community after 1992. The question is asking the Minister if he and his Department are in favour of such complete free movement or is it the Department's policy to seek further testing of those who might come from other EC countries or a period of training? The Minister of State with responsibility for Trade and Marketing was at a Council of Minister's meeting in early May at which he, apparently, accused the Council of foot-dragging on this issue. Perhaps the Minister would clarify the position.
The position so far as the Department are concerned is that they have been pressing for the inclusion in the directive of a provision for a test for lawyers to assess their ability to pursue their profession in the other member state where they wish to practise. I am glad to tell the Deputy that our efforts have been successful and that the point has been accepted by the European Council.
May I ask the Minister whether the adoption of the EC directive will have any impact on access to legal education by both non-nationals and nationals in this country? Will his Department, as a consequence of the directive, be seeking a greater say on the method of induction of students into the profession? Can the Minister advise us on what has been the response of the Law Society and the Bar Council to the proposals contained in the directive to date?
I think that supplementary goes outside the scope of the question as tabled by Deputy McCoy. I would like to point out to the House that unlike previous sectoral directives, this is a general directive which is meant to cover a wide range of professions. One of the main criteria for inclusion within the scope of the directive is that the fully qualified professional must have obtained a diploma awarded by a university, an institute of higher education or other establishment of equivalent level after completing a post-secondary course of at least three years duration. The Department of Education have co-ordinated Ireland's position on this directive and it has been handled at Council of Ministers meetings by the Minister of State with responsibility for Trade and Marketing.
The question of aptitude tests for lawyers or an examination procedure — as stated in the question — was also raised. In the directive an aptitude test is defined as a check on the professional knowledge of the applicant made by the competent authorities of the host member state with the aim of assessing the ability of the applicant to pursue a regulated profession in the member state. For all professions, other than that of lawyers, it is the migrant who will have the choice between either taking an aptitude test or a period of supervised practice to enable him to operate as a fully qualified professional in another member state. However, in the case of lawyers, and certain other professions whose practice requires precise knowledge of national law, it is now accepted that the host member state can make this choice. This is something that we, as well as other member states, were pressing for during the past two years and which has only recently been conceded by the Commission.
Deputy Colley has indicated that she wishes to ask a final supplementary question.
While I realise that the Minister has stated that for all professions, except lawyers, there is a different choice available to member states, would he indicate his view, and that of the Department, on the difficulties which will be encountered — because there are basic differences between the legal systems in this State and in most of the European states — and whether there will be proposals to cope with them?
While the text of the directive has not been finalised as yet it is expected that aptitude tests will be limited to certain subjects. It must take into account the fact that the applicant is a fully qualified professional in the country of origin and must only cover subjects which are essential to enable him to exercise his profession competently in another member state. When the directive is finally adopted there will be a period of about two years before implementation. During that time we will have to designate competent authorities to implement the directive. We will have to have talks with the Kings' Inns and the Incorporated Law Society. The Department of Justice have been working very closely with both branches of the legal profession in the negotiation of this directive, and we are grateful to them for the help, advice and assistance which they have given to the Department.
Mr. J. Bruton rose.
We have spent almost ten minutes on one question and you and other Deputies have other questions.
Does the directive allow for the test to be used to set quantitive limits on the number entering?
I am not in a position to answer that question but I will inquire into it and convey the information to the Deputy as soon as I can.