Nuala Fennell
Question:12 Mrs. Fennell asked the Taoiseach if he will indicate when he will fill the vacancy on the Top Level Appointments Committee; and as this is now an all male committee, if he will appoint a woman to the position.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Committee Vacancy.
Regrettably there is no woman Secretary of a Department at present and, given the function of Top Level Appointments Committee, it is essential that members of the body be at secretary level.
I know the Taoiseach is fully aware of the importance of this committee but I wonder if he is aware that in the five years of the operation of Top Level Appointments Committee it has made 112 appointments, only two of whom are women who fill posts at assistant secretary level? Special measures are needed to identify and encourage suitable women for these top level posts. I would like to refer, the Taoiseach, if I may, to a reply I got from the Minister for Finance on 14 March in which he said that a vacancy exists for representatives from——
I hesitate to interrupt the Deputy but quotations at Question Time are not in order.
With all due respect I would like to quote this reply because I think it is important.
I am sorry Deputy, it is simply not in order.
I do not want to have a battle with you but I have very little opportunity to put questions such as this to the Taoiseach and I would ask you to enable me——
The Chair is here to administer the rules only, nothing more, nothing less.
There is a vacancy on the committee for a member from the private sector. This is the information I have from the Minister for Finance and this is the reason I ask the question.
There is no specific vacancy at the moment.
Is the Taoiseach concerned that this all male interview committee at top level is inconsistent with today's trends and is perceived by women to be discriminatory, and can he do anything about it?
I think the Deputy is misinterpreting the position. Top Level Appointments Committee do their job conscientiously and properly and recommend for appointment those the committee consider in their opinion to be the right type of people. Unfortunately, the situation about which the Deputy is complaining, and rightly so, arises from the fact that throughout the Civil Service, particularly at the higher echelons, there are not enough women members in line for appointment by Top Level Appointments Committee. That is unfortunately the fault of the system, not of the operation of Top Level Appointments Committee. The Minister for Finance, in the reply to which the Deputy refers, did indicate that two women had been appointed to posts at assistant secretary level. Presumably, if we wait long enough, the Deputy will see that the situation will rectify itself.
I would be concerned and I would ask the Taoiseach to look into this matter because in the reply I attempted to quote it was suggested that women at principal officer level were not putting themselves forward for appointment. I suggest that this is because the interview board is an all male board.
I would like the Deputy to accept that Top Level Appointments Committee do a very straightforward conscientious job in the selections they make and I am certain that if suitable women go before the committee, they will be given every opportunity for appointment. Two women were appointed to the position of assistant secretary. I am not sure that a change in the structure of Top Level Appointments Committee could in any way help what is basically an underlying situation.
A final question from Deputy Bruton please. I want to dispose of other questions also.
Without reflecting in any way on the work of Top Level Appointments Committee for which I have, as the Taoiseach obviously has, considerable admiration, would the Taoiseach agree that it is open to the Government in respect of filling a position of private sector representative on the Top Level Appointments Committee to select a woman from the private sector without waiting for a woman to reach the level of secretary within the Civil Service? Would he not agree that for some at least the present situation is seen as a vicious circle in that as long as it is an all-male committee women, it is felt, will not be promoted, and not being promoted they will never be eligible to be members of the committee.
I would have to totally reject that. I think it is an improper suggestion to make.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that it is an unfair problem for a woman?
I would have to resent the basis on which that suggestion has been made to me.
Question No. 13 please.
May I ask the Taoiseach if the practice of the committee nominating one person has been maintained and whether there has been any change involving the submission of several names which would, of course, fundamentally change the role of the committee?
I think the practice varies.
Does that mean that the practice of submitting one name only has been changed in some cases and if so, why was that done and by whose direction?
I am not aware that that was ever the practice.
It was the practice.
I do not think so but I will look it up.
I think you should.
Question No. 13.