Vol. 399 No. 12
10 Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will outline his views on recent changes instituted in the apartheid system by the South African régime; if his attention has been drawn to the recent call made by the General Secretary of the African National Congress, Mr. Alfred Nzo, during a visit to this country, that international sanctions should be maintained; if he will urge the EC to maintain sanctions; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I am grateful to the Deputy for this opportunity to address the question of South Africa and the undeniably positive developments which have been taking place there in recent months. The Government were very much encouraged by the measures announced by President de Klerk on 2 February, in particular the decision to lift with immediate effect the ban on the African National Congress, the Pan-Africanist Congress and the South African Communist Party. We also welcomed the lifting of restrictions on a number of other organisations, including the United Democratic Front and the trade union movement, COSATU. These measures were followed on 11 February by the long overdue release of Nelson Mandela, for which we and the rest of the Twelve had campaigned for many years.
These were all very welcome first steps towards creating a climate in which proper negotiations might eventually take place between the Government and the majority community aimed at establishing a wholly new South Africa, where the rights of all South Africans are respected.
Subsequently, in April, the Minister for Foreign Affairs had the opportunity, along with his Troika colleagues from France and Italy, to visit South Africa. The purpose of the visit was to promote national dialogue. To this end they had discussions with representatives of political parties and other organisations across the political spectrum. They also met with other relevant South African bodies such as the churches and the business community. Their discussions demonstrated the complexity of the South African situation. Foreign Ministers of the Twelve on 18 June will discuss the situation in South Africa in the light of the Troika visit and developments since then.
I believe we can note a number of further positive developments in the period since then. In particular, the Government have welcomed the initiation of "talks about talks" between the Government and the ANC at the beginning of May. The results of these preliminary discussions have been encouraging. Of particular note, perhaps, was the decision to set up a joint working group to define a "political offence". We are hopeful that this may soon lead to the release of all political prisoners, a constant demand of the Twelve over the years.
Legislative action repealing the Separate Amenities Act is likely later this month. The South African Government have also stated their intention to address the Group Areas Act in the next parliamentary session.
Another of the Twelve's fundamental demands over the years has been the lifting of the state of emergency. The Government, therefore, welcome the announcement last week by President de Klerk of its lifting with effect from midnight on 8 June in most parts of the country. We hope that it may not be long before it is also lifted in Natal.
All these measures by the South African Government are to be welcomed and encouraged. There is a spirit abroad in South Africa which would have been unthinkable this time last year. We believe international sanctions have played a role in bringing about the changes we have witnessed so far. The Government are of the view, however, that these changes do not fully meet the criterion established of "profound and irreversible changes" so as to justify a lifting of economic sanctions at this particular juncture. This is the view that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr. Gerard Collins, put to Mr. Nzo when the latter called on him last month and which he will be putting to Foreign Ministers of the Twelve when they meet on 18 June.
I thank the Taoiseach for his recommitment of support for continuing sanctions against South Africa. Yesterday in the European Parliament Nelson Mandela made a very strong statement urging all Twelve EC States to maintain sanctions. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether he intends to have this issue on the agenda of the Heads of State meeting on 25-26 June? Does he agree that a weakening of sanctions at this point would impede the impetus towards improvements in South Africa, weaken the position of the ANC moving towards peaceful reconciliation and strengthen the Right wing in South Africa as a result?
As the Deputy knows, there are many aspects to this matter. I am almost certain that it will surface at the Dublin Summit, in advance of that the Foreign Ministers will be looking at the matter and I hope they will be able to make a unanimous recommendation to the Summit. There are different views in the Community in regard to this matter. Some people are inclined to the view that Mr. de Klerk needs some positive indication of support for what he is trying to do. However, the general view at this point is that we should support, approve of and encourage Mr. de Klerk to proceed along the lines he is following. At the same time, we are not satisfied that the moment has arrived to lift sanctions.
I agree with everything the Taoiseach said in this regard. Will he accept that there has been a significant change in South Africa recently which has benefited most of the black people? It is not the appropriate time to lift sanctions because there would be the danger of delivering Mr. Mandela into the hands of his extremists. However, to delay too long before making a change regarding sanctions could deliver President de Klerk into the hands of his extremists. The world community, including the important, influential role played by the European Community, must tread very carefully and get their timing correct.
I agree.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the firm position which his Government have held in relation to the maintenance of sanctions — a position fully supported by the Labour Party — is instrumental in ensuring that the dialogue between the ANC and the representatives of the South African Government is maintained at the current pace? Will he also agree that any signals that sanctions might be lifted in advance of the destruction of apartheid could be misconstrued? Will the Taoiseach, therefore, assure the House that, notwithstanding pressures which may come from other European Community members in respect of European political co-operation, our Government's position on the maintenance of sanctions until apartheid ends will be maintained?
I suggest that the phrase used by Deputy Barry is appropriate, that we must move very carefully, judiciously and with skill, because it is a complex situation. On the one hand, we all believe that President de Klerk is moving towards the dismantling of apartheid and he needs help, encouragement and support. At exactly what point and to what extent that support and encouragement should be extended to him is a matter of very delicate judgment. On the other hand, Mr. Mandela, for whom we all have the highest respect and regard, is strongly urging that the time has not yet come to make any significant move on sanctions. We must have full regard to that. The House can trust the good judgment of the Community in this matter and certainly public opinion is that the Community should exercise a very beneficial and judicial role. I hope we will succeed in doing that.
A final question from Deputy Owen.
I agree with the Taoiseach that the issue of sanctions is in good hands and I commend him for what he has done so far. Will he give a further assurance to the House that he will not allow any changes to take place in regard to EC attitudes to sanctions until such time as the United Nations General Assembly Declaration, adopted in 1989, which stated that the five pillars of apartheid must go before there is an easing of sanctions, is implemented? The Taoiseach gave me that assurance before and perhaps he will now confirm it.
We will certainly take a view along those lines but we cannot be too specifically dogmatic because it is a changing situation, one that calls for a very careful assessment of developments and a balanced decision as to the right step to take or the right message to send at any given moment.
Will the Taoiseach agree that not all the members of the European Community are free of an interest in lifting sanctions in South Africa? It is important to bear that in mind when making a decision. Will the EC give an adequate hearing to the representatives of the black population in South Africa in any decisions taken to weaken sanctions? I am sure the Taoiseach is aware that the South African Congress of Trade Unions, the ANC and a range of other representative bodies in South Africa are calling for maintenance of sanctions, urging that they be weakened only on the basis of advice from the people directly affected by them, who called for them in the first place, in order to end this appalling system of apartheid?
Naturally I have discussed this issue in every capital I have been in; I know what the views are. The Community is particularly well informed at this point, first of all, because of the tour of a number of capitals by President de Klerk, and there are now similar information visits being conducted by Nelson Mandela. Therfore, both sides of the argument have been well rehearsed by now in European capitals. In the interim I am sure there will be very good, sincere discussions on the part of Foreign Ministers which I would hope would result in our having a good consensus for the Dublin Summit.
