Before the break I had the opportunity to speak on the motion regarding the Criminal Justice Act, 1984. I said that the Fine Gael Party and I support the motion. The motion deals with a large number of important matters that will affect the general public and the right of access to solicitors of persons detained at Garda stations. The motion also relates to necessary powers being granted to the Garda Síochána to investigate crimes brought to their attention that required investigation.
The Minister has presented a most interesting speech, a number of points of which I wish to comment on specifically. In October last, I raised a most important question on rural policing. A number of members of the Garda Síochána at different ranks in the Force were concerned over changes that were being considered regarding the structure of the Force in rural areas.
I wish to emphasise that the Fine Gael Party have at all times had a total commitment to the provision of the maximum numbers of Garda Síochána to serve the community in both urban and rural areas. We are also anxious to ensure that the Garda Síochána are provided with the most modern and efficient methods, equipment and technology to assist them in their fight against crime.
Policy decisions have at all times been a matter that we felt should be discussed publicly and openly. When I raised this matter in October last I was aware that in September 1990 a meeting on rural policing was held at Garda Headquarters with the then Deputy Commissioner McMahon. The meeting was convened to discuss plans for rural policing. Deputy Commissioner McMahon stated at the time that the four Border Garda divisions would not be affected. Dublin was also not being included.
It was further outlined that the following 12 districts were to be included in the proposed restructuring of Garda arrangements, Enniscorthy, Nenagh, Ballinasloe, Longford, Newcastlewest, Birr, Loughrea, Tralee, Killaloe, Kanturk, Midleton and Baltinglass. The existing two pilot schemes in Claremorris, County Mayo, and Thomastown, County Kilkenny, were to continue to operate. The start-up date for this new scheme was to be 1 January 1991.
Following my public statements, the Government recognised there was considerable opposition from the public to these new proposals. For the benefit of the House, it is of interest to outline the situation as it exists in the Claremorris and Thomastown pilot districts. Claremorris Garda station is open to the public 24 hours a day. Ballindine and Hollymount, which are in the Claremorris area, are open to the public for one hour a day. Ballinrobe is the area headquarters. It is open for two hours in the morning and one hour in the afternoon. Cong, Kilmaine and Shrule which are attached to Ballinrobe are open also for one hour a day. The situation is almost similar in Thomastown.
It may be of interest to the House if I read an extract from Garda News of November 1990, which deals with the operation of these pilot schemes in Claremorris and Thomastown and I quote from Sergeant James Cannon's article:
Under the scheme the local knowledge built up by a member in his own sub-district evaporates. Crime is not being investigated as it should be because the system does not allow for appropriate follow-up action. All contact with the general public is being lost and the lack of local knowledge is having an adverse effect on both the Force and the public. The opening times for stations do not seem to be in accord with public need. Patrol cars are being operated as a "taxi" service for the conveyance of members from one station to another.
Sergeant Cannon continues:
The main elements of the existing rural policing scheme are all Sergeants and Gardaí within an area are regarded as Area Officers and are detailed for duty in any part of the area. It is patently clear that a Garda travelling up to 20 miles in a police car from a Headquarters Station to open a rural station for 2 hours each day is ineffective, impedes efficiency and will not improve the existing service. It is difficult enough to get people to come forward to help the Gardaí and this situation becomes worse when Gardaí are distant from the local people.
It is also of interest to quote an extract from the President of the Garda Representative Association, Mr. P.J. Stone, from the Irish Independent of 8 May, 1991:
The proposed Rural Policing Plan was being foisted on the Force as another great solution to the problem of falling numbers of Gardai in towns and villages.
It is now the intention to give the impression of more Gardai in rural Ireland by giving the Force more mobility and having patrol cars travelling from town to town to open up stations for an hour a day so that an impression is given that Garda Stations are not closing.
"Now you see them, now you don't"—a Paul Daniels type of illusion.
Those are the words of the President of the Garda Representative Association, not mine. I am not politically motivated in quoting this. The people of Ireland have a right to know.
What is happening is that the Government are in fact foisting a major policy change on the Garda Síochána without affording the general public an opportunity of publicly and openly debating this major policy change. Garda management and the day-to-day running of the Force is a matter for the Garda Commissioner and the Garda Síochána. Policy and policy decisions are a matter for Dáil Éireann and for the people of Ireland to debate and to give a verdict upon.
I reject this cloak and dagger approach of the Government on this policy change. I demand that the veil of secrecy that is shrouding this issue, should be lifted.
The only way to combat crime in rural areas is to maintain and in fact increase the strength of the Force in rural areas, particularly nowadays when mobile criminals are moving from outside the cities into the country areas where they are striking terror into the heart of the elderly and the most vulnerable members of the community. Garda stations reduced to opening one hour a day are no answer to this very serious problem.
The Garda statistics for 1990 which are overdue for publication have not yet been published. In 1990, according to reliable information I have received, it is anticipated that there will be an increase in crime of 1 per cent nationwide and in 1990 there has been an increase of 6 per cent in the level of indictable crime outside Dublin.
If I am wrong, I will apologise to the Minister. However, those are the figures I have been given and I would like him to comment on them. The general public are entitled to know whether I am correct. It is a serious matter when crime in rural Ireland increases by 6 per cent. I wonder what is the delay in publishing these figures.
I queried the Minister of State at the Department of Justice on Thursday last in this House on the proposals that are on the desk of the Minister for Justice where Garda stations are to be open to the public for only one hour a day. I asked the Minister if it was not a fact that Garda management had submitted plans which effectively downgraded and reduced the hours of opening of many Garda stations in a number of areas across the country. This was denied by the Minister. In his speech earlier today the Minister stated "the Garda authorities have submitted to the Minister proposals for reform and enhancement of the rural policing arrangements".
The Minister said that there would not be a downgrading or closure of Garda stations and that rural stations and Garda houses would be renovated to encourage gardaí to reside in the communities they serve. The Minister has taken poetic licence in outlining the facts in this issue. The two pilot schemes in Claremorris and Thomastown indicate a reduced service in the towns and villages surrounding the district headquarters.
Comprehensive discussions have already taken place with the chief superintendents in each of the districts referred to by me with regard to the implementation of new arrangements for rural policing. The discussions have covered the reduction of services down to one hour per day in the stations concerned. If the opening hours of stations are to be reduced and if the numbers of gardaí employed locally are also reduced, I do not understand how there cannot be a downgrading of Garda stations. If this scheme is implemented, reduced services would be provided in 100 Garda stations throughout the country, and the future viability of the stations will be threatened.
This is the first phase affecting 100 Garda stations. It is generally believed by the Garda that if this scheme is fully implemented over 350 Garda stations would be affected. I do not see how gardaí are being encouraged to reside in the communities they serve when over 50 per cent of houses built for the gardaí have been sold or are in the process of being sold on the open market. Will the Minister confirm that I am correct in that?
Up to three years ago there were 960 properties comprising Garda stations and houses throughout Ireland. There were 367 married quarters attached to Garda stations, 407 National Building Agency houses and 195 houses in the grounds of Garda stations. I understand that the 367 stations with married quarters attached are being retained by the Department of Justice and that out of the 407 National Building Agency houses, 375 have been sold in the last few years to members of the Garda Síochána and their families and others to members of the general public. I fully support that. Of the remaining 195 houses in the hands of the Department of Justice and the Office of Public Works, 135 will be sold. I understand that a memorandum was sent from the Department of Justice to the Office of Public Works within the past month urging that these houses should be sold. Last Friday evening I listened to the Minister for Justice on television saying that Garda stations would not be downgraded and that the houses for the Garda Síochána would be refurbished and so on. A few minutes later in a local paper I saw two Garda houses for sale, one in Cloughjordan and the other in Ballingarry north.
These measures to reduce the opening hours of rural Garda stations and to downgrade Garda stations are policy matters and we should debate them here. The general public are entitled to be made aware of the facts. I will listen with interest to the Minister's reply. Certainly I and many people in the 12 districts referred to are very concerned about the future. The House is entitled to a detailed answer. I do not want any more of the bluff and bluster of the Minister for Justice. I want specific detailed replies.
