Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 11 Feb 1993

Vol. 425 No. 8

Adjournment Debate. - Social Welfare Matters.

Mr. Nealon

I wish the Minister every success on his return to the Social Welfare portfolio. I have always found him very sympathetic to genuine grievances and willing to take good ideas on board.

Because of emigration and migration patterns of the forties and fifties, and indeed later, many old age pensioners in Sligo, Leitrim, Mayo, Donegal and the entire west have small British pensions. These are often topped up by the Department of Social Welfare here to bring their combined pensions up to the level of the non-contributory old age pension. The amount those pensioners get from the Department is dictated by means testing and based on the size of their British pensions, but we all know what has happened in recent times to sterling. A short time ago 90p sterling equalled IR£1, then the value of sterling fell to where £1.09 sterling equalled IR£1.

This dramatic fluctuation of the currencies was not caused by the old age pensioners in the west but they are the victims. They are suffering more real hardships from it than most of the big time speculators caught in the money markets. Some pensioners have seen the real value of their incomes decrease by between 15 or 25 per cent. I thought the Department would make an automatic adjustment, as it was pretty smart to do when sterling was riding high and the adjustment was downwards, but it did not. I was told the Department makes its calculation on a three monthly average of the rates. That is understandable, but what is not understandable is that the Department does not after the three month period make the change automatically. The pensioners have to write in to get an adjustment — request a review, is the jargon used. The pensioners do not make the request because they do not know it is required do not understand the system, or simply because they are old and not as sharp as they used to be.

Surely there should be some system in operation whereby they would receive the money they are due automatically. This is the age of technology and the Department of Social Welfare has been a leader in that regard. I ask the Minister for Social Welfare to take immediate steps to ensure that those pensioners are paid what they are owed. In many cases the adjustments will be very little in real terms, but a fall of £15, £10 or even £5 is a substantial lowering of income to an old age penisoner, especially when they could not make ends meet on the original pensions at full value.

Minister for Social Welfare (Dr. Woods)

People in receipt of pensions from the United Kingdom can experience both gains and losses in Irish punt terms with changes in the UK-Irish exchange rate. One of the great advantages of the ERM when Britain was in it was that we had greater stability in that regard. Many of those in receipt of pensions from the UK have experienced for some considerable time an improvement in income, as their pensions gained in value during the period when the Irish pound remained below parity with sterling. The deterioration in the value of sterling in recent months, however, has meant that this advantage has been eroded. A person who was in receipt of a UK retirment pension may also be entitled, if aged over 66 years, to an old age non-contributory pension from my Department. The UK pension would count as means for this purpose, converted to Irish pounds by reference to an average exchange rate used by my Department. A UK penisoner who is already in receipt of an old-age non-contributory pension and whose means has dropped as a result is entitled to request a review of his/her means assessment. People in receipt of UK pensions who are experiencing difficulty as a result of their income falling below the appropriate rate of supplementary welfare allowance for their family size may contact the community welfare officer at their local health centre.

The recent 10 per cent devaluation of the punt will also have the effect of significantly increasing the value of pensions payable from the United Kingdom. The position is that for some time we had a great deal of stability during which the UK pensioners benefited because sterling was stronger than the punt. Recently we have had a period of fluctuation and now the position is adjusted back again with the 10 per cent devaluation. Obviously, if the value of sterling continues to fall we will have to take longer term measures. At present we deal with the cases as they arise when people apply.

Mr. Nealon

Would the Minister not trigger it off automatically?

Dr. Woods

It would be too complicated and is best left to the computers.

Mr. Deasy

I ask the Minister for Social Welfare to show a certain amount of discretion and flexibility where payments of social welfare benefit are made to people who are diagnosed as suffering from incurable diseases. Under the present system a person in insurable employment who becomes ill has to wait at least 12 months before becoming eligible for an invalidity pension. During that period he or she has to supply weekly or monthly medical certificates to illustrate that he or she is unable to work. The trauma suffered by people who discover they have an incurable disease is considerable. It would be charitable on the part of the Minister and the Department of Social Welfare to assist such people in every way possible. For people on invalidity pension, there are additional benefits such as free electricity and travel pass. These fringe benefits are some compensation, but these people should be spared the trauma of having to supply medical certificates every week or every month. I would ask the Minister to invoke a certain degree of flexibility in this regard. His officials tell me their hands are tied because of the regulations.

Dr. Woods

I greatly appreciate the point made by Deputy Deasy. If this were simply a question of discretion and flexibility it would be an easier matter to deal with. Under current legislation persons can qualify for invalidity pension only if they have been incapable of work for at least a year and if the illness or disability concerned is likely to be a permanent one. It is a matter of legislation in the first instance.

By way of background, invalidity pension was first introduced in 1970 and was paid at the same rate as disability benefit. The main difference between the payments was that invalidity pension was paid by pension book. Over the years invalidity pension rates were increased above those for disability benefit and invalidity pensioners also gained entitlement to the various "free" schemes, such as free travel. This was in line with the general policy of providing higher payments to long term recipients.

Research has shown that people who are long term dependent on social welfare payments have greater need for income support and in recent years the Government has placed particular emphasis on giving special increases to people on long term payments. If any change were to be considered it would have to be targeted specifically to those who need the additional benefit most. The experience of my Department has been that it can be very difficult to establish whether a condition is permanent even after 12 months on disability benefit and this is understandable.

As the Deputy knows, I am always open to ideas and suggestions for improvement to the social welfare system. I appreciate the case made by Deputy Deasy. For example, in the case of a person suffering from incurable cancer who may have approximately five, six, eight or ten months to live, the position is medically fairly clear cut. Yet under existing legislation it is not possible in that time to provide invalidity pension as well as the extra benefits such as free fuel, which would be very important in the winter months. I appreciate the point made by the Deputy, it is one I have come across in my clinics. I will have the matter examined to see if cases of incurable illness can be provided for sooner under the scheme.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.45 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Friday, 12 February 1993.