Vol. 426 No. 2
13 Miss Harney asked the Minister for Justice if, in view of the serious upsurge in crime and the shortage of Garda manpower throughout the country, she will renew the option of allowing members of the force to serve until they are 60 years of age; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I reject the Deputy's assertion that there is a serious upsurge in crime. It is, however, fair to say that the use of violence in the furtherance of criminal acts is on a much higher level than was the case in, say, the pre-1970 period. The reasons for this are many and varied but time would not permit me to go into them here. The numbers of gardaí has been rising steadily in response to this particular crime trend. In 1970 we had 6,551 gardaí. Today we have 10,984 and hundreds of civilian staff have been recruited to free up gardaí from indoor work to fulfil outdoor operational duty requirements. There are now 1,647 civilian staff working for the Garda of whom almost 700 are full-time clerical staff and 181 are traffic wardens. This figure has risen significantly over the past three years.
The compulsory retirement age for gardaí, sergeants and inspectors, at present set at 57 years, is the subject of discussion under the Garda conciliation and arbitration scheme and a meeting to discuss this particular issue is imminent. The House will appreciate that I would not wish to prejudice the discussions with the Garda representative bodies by commenting here further.
Members will of course be aware that the retirement age for the grades in question was increased temporarily from 57 to 60 between 1989 and 31 December 1992. Members attaining 57 years during that period benefited from the concession which was introduced because of the time-lag involved in recruiting additional gardaí from the Garda recruitment campaign which commenced in 1988. The temporary extension of the retirement age which applied in the period 1989 to the end of 1992 will continue to provide benefits to the force until December 1995.
I am pleased the Minister is going to meet with the Garda representatives bodies because they were waiting for almost a year to meet with her predecessor without success. Would the Minister agree that the numbers in the force have actually declined? For example, in 1985 there were 500 more gardaí than there are now. Would the Minister also agree that this year about 420 members will leave the force and we will recruit only about 270? Would she further agree that giving the gardaí the option to serve for a further three years would ensure, first, that we have more experienced members at the disposal of the force and, second, that costs would be halved? Those gardaí would be receiving pensions - about 1.5 per cent of the pay bill each year goes towards pensions — and they would have to receive a gratuity. On a short term basis — I do not recommend it as a long term solution — and given the difficulties that exist within the force I ask the Minister for a third time to give the gardaí the option to serve for a further three years? Would the Minister agree, if that option is not forthcoming, that in the next couple of years those who got the extension of three years plus those who would normally retire at the age of 57 will all retire together thus leaving the garda authorities with a serious manpower shortage?
The decision to extend the retirement age was originally taken in the context of the conditions prevailing at that time. They included the relatively high retirement rates and the delay in replacement due to the time taken to recruit and train recruits.
Because the compulsory retirement age is now the subject of discussion under the Garda conciliation and arbitration scheme I do not want to prejudice those discussions and I do not think Deputy Harney would wish me to do so. I have listened very carefully to what Deputy Harney has said in relation to this matter. However, it is important to point out that we started the recruitment of the second 1,000 Garda trainees last year. I intend to comply with the commitment in the Programme for Government to accelerate the recruitment level and I will bring proposals in that regard to Government shortly. That will go some way towards the reductions Deputy Harney talked about in relation to the compulsory retirement age this year.
Can the Minister clarify a matter for me? The Minister said the recruitment of the second 1,000 Garda has started. As the Minister is aware when statements of that nature are made the media usually think that 1,000 gardaí are being recruited. Could the Minister confirm that the recruitment currently taking place does not exceed 250 gardaí. Can she also confirm that Deputy Harney is correct in saying that if the retirement age is not extended the numbers in the Garda force by December 1993 will be less than the numbers in the Garda force in December 1992? Would the Minister agree that unless the retirement age is again temporarily extended rather than this Government, in its first year increasing the numbers in the Garda, there will in fact be a reduction?
The Deputy is correct in saying that 250 trainee gardaí are in Templemore, that is the number being recruited. There is a commitment in the Programme for Government — as I said in answer to Deputy Harney — that Garda recruitment should be accelerated and I intend to do that. Deputy Shatter might try but he is not going to get me to pre-judge the outcome of the discussions under the Garda conciliation and arbitration scheme. It would be worth our while to wait for their decision.
Is the Minister not misleading the House in stating that Garda numbers have increased when, in fact, since 1987 Garda numbers have declined from 11,400 to the present figure which she quoted in her reply? Would the Minister not agree that commitments to the House to press for extra gardaí ring hollow when her own party made an electoral promise in the eighties to increase Garda strength to 12,000. Despite six years in office we are still 1,000 short of that number.
I would have thought we had not done too badly considering that we have a force of almost 11,000. Since 1989 when we recommended garda recruitment we have taken on an extra 500 gardaí and we have a commitment to accelerate the intake of recruits into Templemore. I intend to do that during the course of this year. What was the second part of the Deputy's supplementary?
The Minister's party over six years ago, before she entered office, promised a Garda strength of 12,000 — 1,000 more than we have now — and I wanted to know the reason for this.
The Deputy did not listen to me because I said that since recruitment recommended in 1989 we had an increase of 500. If is not true to say that the number has decreased. I would have thought that a commitment——
It is true. The figures are published in the Estimates and I can provide them to the Clerk of the House if the Minister wishes.
I can remember many promises — I am not going to go into them here — made by the Deputy's party——
So can we.
Deputy Durkan can remember them too—which were not fulfilled. If arising out of a promise of 12,000 we end up with almost 11,000 that is not a bad record for the Government.
It represents a decline.
That record will be continued because we will have an accelerated programme of garda recruitment starting this year.
The Minister has achieved a reduction in Garda numbers.
The Minister said that Deputies were not listening to other Deputies in the House. Could I ask the Minister again the question posed by Deputies Harney and Shatter? Does she accept that with an intake of 250 approximately this year and a retirement of 400-plus gardaí there will be less gardaí at the end of this year than there are now? Does she accept that, yes or no?
We are having an element of repetition.
We never get an answer to the question.
It is a luxury we cannot afford at Question Time.
Can we have an answer?
The Deputy has made the mistake again of accepting that the intake this year will only be 250. I must have said it four times at this stage — I do not intend to repeat it after this except, perhaps, for Deputy McDowell——
How long is the training?
—— that there will be an accelerated recruitment programme this year. That is a commitment in the Programme for Government and it will be honoured.
Not unless there is a three month training period.
Can the Minister clarify something for me because I am somewhat confused at this stage? Can the Minister explain what she means by an accelerated intake of recruits and what is she proposing to do? Does it mean people will be brought to the gates in Templemore more quickly in a bus or does it mean we will have 500 new recruits this year? Can the Minister explain what that phrase means as I do not understand it?
I regret that Deputy Shatter does not understand my English. An accelerated programme of recruitment means getting more trainees into Templemore to the training college. It does not mean how we get them there.
What number? How many?
More.
Many more.
Two or three? They will accelerate their way to Templemore.
