Richard Bruton
Question:2 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the present personnel available to the Parliamentary Draughtsman; the way in which this compares to five years ago; and the proposals, if any, he has to increase staffing.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Parliamentary Draftsman's Staffing Complement.
There are at present eight parliamentary draftsmen on the Attorney General's staff compared with four in May 1988. In addition, the services of a former head of the Parliamentary Draftsman's Office and a former head of the Statute Law Reform and Consolidation Office are retained by the Attorney General on a full time contractual basis, as was the case five years ago. It is considered that this number of drafting personnel is adequate for the State's current needs but I have asked the Attorney General to keep the position under review and to inform me if that situation changes.
Is the Taoiseach aware that the Moriarty group, which reported last week, pointed out specifically that there was a bottleneck in this area? Is he aware that his colleague, the Minister for Enterprise and Employment, indicated at that time that the Government was reviewing the numbers available in the parliamentary draftsman's office? Has that review been completed in three days and has the Taoiseach now decided that the views of the Moriarty group were wrong?
As I indicated at the end of my reply, the position is being kept under review by the Attorney General. He has said that his present staffing level is adequate. Legislation is being returned to the Government fairly quickly.
Can one take it that if there is an adequate supply of parliamentary draftsmen any delays in legislation do not originate in the parliamentary draftsman's office but rather are political and administrative delays, for which there is direct political responsibility?
No, the Deputy cannot draw that conclusion from what I said.
The Taoiseach cannot have it both ways.
The Deputy, more than any other Deputy, should be aware that some legislation is straightforward while in the case of other legislation it takes a lot of time to tease out the constitutional and other issues which may arise. The Deputy should not be seeking to point the political finger all the time.
That is the implication of what the Taoiseach said.
If the staff available to the parliamentary draftsman is adequate, how does the Taoiseach explain the furore in the other House when we pirated legislation in order to keep the business of this House going? If it was not the fault of the parliamentary draftsman, can the Taoiseach tell the House whose fault it was?
Matters appertaining to the other House cannot be adverted to now.
We had expected to receive a Bill from the other House but the debate on it was not completed. There was no shortage of work in the other House.
May I ask the Taoiseach how many of the draftsmen are women? In view of an earlier response to a similar question on the number of people employed in this area, may I ask the Taoiseach what procedures are in place within Government Departments to develop and train people so that they can be promoted to this position and carry out the jobs which need to be done?
Three of the eight draftspeople are women. People need to be trained in the necessary skills and the Attorney General is considering the best way to approach this issue. A lack of necessary skills was one of the reasons the backlog built-up in the parliamentary draftsman's office over a period.
Can we take it that delays in the parliamentary draftsman's office are not an excuse for delays in the introduction of legislation here? Does the Taoiseach consider that a case can be made for re-examining Cabinet procedure instructions in regard to the way heads of Bills have to be drafted and every Bill has to be circulated twice to all relevant Departments before being approved, to see if there are other ways in which the political intentions of Government and the House can be converted more quickly into reality? The Finance Bill — the most complex piece of legislation brought before the House — can be drafted within two months, while in the case of ordinary legislation it takes a minimum of two years from inception to delivery.
The Deputy cannot take from what I said that any delays in future will be of a political nature. As I have already explained to Deputy McDowell, some Bills are straightforward while in the case of others some very complicated constitutional issues can arise. With regard to the other part of the Deputy's question, there are very good legal systems in some Government Departments which carry out much of the groundwork before a Bill is sent to the parliamentary draftsman's office. Other Departments do not have the necessary facilities, and we are looking into this aspect. With regard to changing the procedure for the circulation of the heads of Bills, I am not sure that there is a simple way around this, but I will certainly have a look at the matter.
Deputies R. Bruton, Harney, J. O'Keeffe and Shatter rose.
There are too many Deputies offering. If the Deputies are very brief I will be glad to call them. Questions from now on must be brief, relevant and succinct.
As always, I will obey the Chair. May I ask the Taoiseach how long it takes to train a parliamentary draftsman? I have heard that this training can take up to five years. In such circumstances, it would be wise at least to have trainees in the office at this stage.
I do not know how long this training takes, but it is a skill which take sometime to develop. I will get the exact period of time and I will get the Deputy know.
Would the Taoiseach accept that all the expertise in this area does not rest in the parliamentary draftsman's office? Would he consider in certain circumstances contracting-out the drafting of Bills? Is the Taoiseach aware that already in this Dáil more new Bills have been drafted by Deputy Shatter and Deputy McDowell than by the parliamentary draftsman's office?
Private Members' Bills have to be opposed by the Government time and time again because they are very badly drafted. That is the main reason the Bills have to be opposed.
The main reason is that the Government does not understand them.
We understand the Bills all right. With regard to the contracting-out of the drafting of Bills, we have looked at that possibility but the skills are not readily available. If the Deputy has names which she wants to pass on for consideration I will be only too glad to have them.
There are two such people sitting beside me.
(Interruptions.)
Can we take it from that the job will be given to Deputy Shatter?
Deputy Shatter could do with the help of draftsmen in drafting his Bills so that they do not contain any gaping holes.
Perhaps the Taoiseach would agree that Government Bills often have to be substantially redrafted by Members on this side of the House to make them work. Would the Taoiseach agree also that it would greatly speed up the legislative process if his Government changed its approach and stopped its kneejerk reaction to measures coming from this side of the House and automatically opposing them regardless of their merits?
The Deputy can take it that the Government does not oppose Bills merely for the sake of opposition. I think that practice was developed by the Deputies on the opposite side of the House when they were in Government.
The Government will have an opportunity tomorrow night——
Deputy Shatter should not seek to convey the impression to people both inside and outside this House that one swallow makes a summer.
Some people choke on their swallows.
I call Deputy Richard Bruton for a final question.
In view of his satisfaction with the position in the Parliamentary Draftsman's office, why did the Government not indicate to the Moriarty group that it was mistaken when it said that this was an area which would inhibit change and was a priority for improvement? Why did it not communicate this view instead of the contrary view it published a week ago?
There were delays for a period of time but the position has improved. I will keep the matter under review.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy need not have any fear in this regard. The situation will continue to be improved, but it is not something that can be achieved overnight.