John Bruton
Question:2 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if the Government will enshrine the six principles enunciated by the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs in the Constitution, by way of amendment.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Northern Ireland.
Jim O'Keeffe
Question:3 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach whether a timetable for resumption of talks in Northern Ireland was agreed with UK Prime Minister, Mr. John Major, at their meeting at the European Summit.
Jim O'Keeffe
Question:4 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach whether he will arrange a full meeting with UK Prime Minister, Mr. John Major, in the near future.
John Bruton
Question:5 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach whether all-Party talks will have little prospect of success without the cessation of violence; whether a cessation of violence should take precedence over efforts to restart the talks between the Parties; and whether this should be reflected in Government priorities.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:6 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent meeting in Dublin with the SDLP Leader, Mr. John Hume; the matters discussed; and any conclusions reached.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:7 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the response, if any, he has received from the political parties in Northern Ireland or the British Government to the content of his recent Ard Fheis speech regarding Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:8 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if, in view of his recent speech to the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis in which he said that peace in Northern Ireland could not wait for a political settlement, he will give his views on the way in which peace can be achieved prior to a political settlement; if he intends to take any steps in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 8, inclusive, together.
It is the Government's firm conviction that a real opportunity exists at the present time to secure a lasting peace and a permanent cessation of violence. The Government are therefore giving the highest priority to the development of a basis for peace. Both the Irish and British Governments bear special responsibilities in this regard. As the Brussels Joint Statement of 29 October states: "The two Governments must continue to work together in their own terms on a framework for peace, stability and reconciliation consistent with their international obligations and their wider responsibilities to both communities". I welcome therefore the speech of the British Prime Minister in the Mansion House last night, in which he confirms that he shares our assessment of the opportunity that exists, and in which he states that the British Government for their part are "now actively seeking a framework to deliver peace, stability and reconciliation". I hope that we can continue to make progress towards this goal in the period ahead.
Political leadership, courage and commitment are necessary in order to realise the universal desire for peace on this island. For our part, the Government are prepared to take risks to achieve this, but we also need realism on all sides. An environment of peace would, of course, utterly transform the political atmosphere and greatly enhance the prospects for a successful outcome to a resumed process of dialogue, but we are not in any sense saying that peace is a precondition for the resumption of talks. The Government therefore see the parallel pursuit of the peace and talks processes as complementary. Work on both is proceeding on that basis. It is important, and people would expect, that a determined effort be made to achieve real progress and to make a beginning of peace a reality as soon as possible, I would hope before the end of this year. Nevertheless, no absolute deadline has been set in respect of either process. The attainment of peace is however in our view of particular urgency. As I said in my address to the Fianna Fáil Árd Fhéis on 6 November: "While our first priority is to establish peace, which I see as a distinct and separate process, I also believe the talks process must be resumed immediately".
Deputies will be aware of the agreement that the Taoiseach and British Prime Minister should meet twice yearly to discuss matters of concern to our two countries. The next such meeting will take place in Dublin in early December. In accordance with established practice, the date will be announced simultaneously in Dublin and London close to the time of the meeting.
I held separate meetings on 3 November with the SDLP leader, Mr. John Hume, and the Alliance Party Leader, Dr. John Alderdice. The Tánaiste and I also had a meeting with an SDLP delegation led by John Hume on Sunday, 14 November. It would not be appropriate to give details of confidential discussions of this nature. I can say, however, that they focused upon our shared desire to achieve peace and political reconciliation on this island. I refer to the positive public statements made since those meetings.
As regards constitutional change in the context of Northern Ireland, I have already set out the Government's position on numerous occasions and most recently in this House on 6 October 1993.
I join with the Taoiseach in welcoming the British Prime Minister's statement. I further welcome the Taoiseach's own statement that the peace and the talks processes are complementary and that one does not have to precede the other. In view of what the British Prime Minister said yesterday, would the Taoiseach not agree that there is absolutely no reason Sinn Féin should not stop now? All the conditions have been created in terms of allowing them to participate in the peace process. They have been told they have a place at the talks. There is no justification for their continuing to maintain that the shooting of RUC men in Newry is some form of contribution to a peace process.
I have already called on a number of occasions, as has the Tánaiste, for the men of violence on both sides to lay down their arms and I have indicated that there would then be places at the conference table for them. I repeat that call today.
Will the Taoiseach agree that there should in no circumstances be a situation whereby either the IRA or Sinn Féin would have a veto on peace talks and that there would be such a danger if there were too much emphasis on peace before talks? Will he agree that, although all of us would like to see an early settlement, it is not helpful to talk of artificial deadlines for either peace or a settlement at this stage?
The Deputy must not have been listening when I said there were no absolute deadlines, that we hope to continue to make progress, that it is a matter or urgency, that it is a priority of the Government that we continue along that road and that nobody should have a veto on a peace process.
In stating that the peace and talks processes are two distinct and separate processes, does the Taoiseach regard the conditions which might be required for the Provisional IRA to stop their killing and bombing as applying to any talks process which gets underway now or in the foreseeable future?
Both the British Prime Minister and I have made it abundantly clear on a number of occasions that the men of violence should lay down their arms and that there would be a seat for them at the conference table to enter into dialogue and discussions on how the future of all communities and all peoples of this island could be worked out, after we had seen a real cessation of violence for a period of time so that people would be absolutely satisfied that such a position existed.
In regard to the other aspects of Deputy De Rossa's question, talks are continuing and much discussion is taking place behind the scenes between Sir Patrick Mayhew and the Northern Ireland Office and the various political leaders in an effort to identify levels of agreement between the parties. It is for them to judge when sufficient work has been done to enable them to convene all the political leaders around the table. We have not arrived at that situation yet. That was made abundantly clear at the Anglo-Irish Conference last Wednesday. Work continues along that path and we want to see a talks process with everybody around the table as soon as is practicable.
Will the Taoiseach agree that for a settlement to be durable it is important for everyone involved to take part in devising it? What steps will he take to enable the Government to take part in direct discussions with the Unionists and other parties in Northern Ireland? Will he also indicate his answer to Question No. 2?
Question No. 2, tabled by Deputy Bruton, asked if the Government will enshrine the six principles enunciated by the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs in the Constitution. Anybody who studies the six principles will clearly see they are not suitable material for enshrining in the Constitution. We are continuing to work in a manner in which we believe the most progress can be made to find a basis for peace. We contributed significantly to the resumption of the talks process and we will continue to be involved in that. The Tánaiste issued invitations to the Unionist parties to meet him, those invitations are being processed in the normal way by the Unionists and it is a matter for them to respond.
On reflection, does the Taoiseach agree that the "go it alone" option to which he referred last week, possibly in an unguarded moment, is not the best approach to achieve a settlement?
I do not intend to speculate on that and I will continue to do my job as best I can.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The Taoiseach should keep away from pop concerts.
The Taoiseach may have misunderstood my question and therefore, I will phrase it another way. The Tánaiste outlined principles for a democratic settlement in relation to Northern Ireland. He and the British Prime Minister issued a statement in Brussels which outlined a basis for progress in relation to Northern Ireland. Are those principles and that statement the only conditions which will be acceptable to the Irish and British Governments for the involvement of Sinn Féin and the IRA to be represented at any talks when there is a cessation of violence, in other words, that new conditions are not being negotiated, behind the scenes, with Sinn Féin and the IRA which will become the conditions for any talks with the democratic parties in Northern Ireland?
I do not intend to comment on any talks that may or may not have taken place between Sinn Féin, the IRA and the British Government. It is a matter for those parties to confirm or deny that position. We will continue to do our job. Every week the Tánaiste and I have meetings with various representatives for example, community leaders, who make suggestions as to how progress may be made towards putting together a formula for peace. There is an overwhelming desire for peace from all sides in the North and throughout the length and breath of this country. We will continue to take soundings and listen to all opinions in our continuing efforts to put together a formula for peace. Up to now we have made our contribution towards a basis for the formulation of peace and we will continue to have discussions with the British Government in that regard. We will continue to work with the Northern Secretary of State, Sir Patrick Mayhew, in relation to his efforts to restart the talks process.
I welcome the expressed personal commitment of the British Prime Minister to a framework for peace and the remarks of the Taoiseach today in terms of both ways forward, the way of peace and the talks process. Is the Taoiseach aware of the great confusion among both traditions in the North, the Unionists and the Nationalists, which is best expressed by the Northern question: what is the Free State Government up to? Will the Taoiseach tell us what he means by the phrase "peace without a predetermined future"? The Nationalist and Unionist communities are confused and concerned about what that phrase might mean.
I do not share the Deputy's view that they are confused about what that phrase means. During the past few weeks I met various representatives and community leaders who asked the same questions raised by Deputy Currie. "Peace without a predetermined future" is a simple phrase. It means we want to see peace established in the North without prejudice to the future of either communities to a political settlement. We all want peace and for everybody to sit around a table and work out the best future for everybody living there. There must be a better way than another 25 years of violence. We are not asking anybody to predetermine the political future and ultimate political solution. First, we want a cessation of violence that will enable peace talks to get underway in an atmosphere and an environment that will undoubtedly offer a far better chance of success than the present position.
Has the Taoiseach's attention been drawn to the denial by the British Government that it has had any contact with the IRA and to an article in The Sunday Tribune which suggested that discussions had been held at arm's length and through a proxy between the Taoiseach and the IRA? Will he indicate if any such discussions took place, if he had any report from such discussions and if he asked anybody to intermediate between him and the IRA for the purpose of taking soundings?
I will repeat what I said earlier. Every week I meet people from both communities, community leaders and people representing various strands of opinion who keep me informed of their views and the shift in opinion in various sectors. I do not propose to comment any further. Those discussions are confidential and will remain confidential. If any of those people who met me wish to make those discussions public, they are free to do so, but I will always respect the confidentiality of people, especially those who come from the divided community in Northern Ireland.
(Limerick East): Will the Taoiseach agree that the nub of the British Prime Minister's speech last night was to align the British Government's position with that of the Irish Government as enunciated in Principle 6 in respect of the participation of Sinn Féin at any future talks? Will he further agree that there is now little difference between the two Governments in respect of Principles 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6? Has progress been made in aligning the position of the two Governments in accordance with the position of the Irish Government as stated in Principle 1?
Principle 1 states that, first, the people living in Ireland, North and South, without coercion, without violence, should be free to determine their own future. That principle is endemic in what I have said all along and in what I have said today. In relation to the positions of the two Governments, it is clear from the Prime Minister's statements that the two Governments see the two processes as complementary and I have never regarded them as being in competition. What I have said is that there is an opportunity to develop a peace formula and I do not think the time available to us is indefinite in that respect. There is an urgency and a priority to try to grasp that opportunity while it exists. There is no difference of opinion on the talks process. Sir Patrick Mayhew and other Ministers are carrying on discussions with political leaders. The British Prime Minister met the political leadership in the North in the last ten days and all that work is in progress. I assure the House that there is no difference of opinion as to how the process should continue.
(Limerick East): I did not get an answer to my question. I do not think the Taoiseach understood me.
I have no control over that, Deputy.
(Limerick East): Perhaps you will allow me to put the question more clearly?
One wonders whether the Taoiseach has control over it. I wish to put as clearly as possible my question to the Taoiseach in relation to the IRA. The Taoiseach said there is an historic opportunity for peace. Will he confirm that by "peace" he means in these instances a cessation of violence by the IRA? If so, given that the Taoiseach indicated he is involved in a peace process, presumably with the IRA through proxies or otherwise, what conditions will the Taoiseach accept for such a cessation of violence? Are they the Spring principles, the Hume-Adams arrangements, about which we are still kept in the dark, or the Brussels statement? In view of the fact that Gerry Adams last night rejected out of hand the statement by the British Prime Minister, does the Taoiseach not consider it time for him to tell Gerry Adams to put up or shut up and let us get on with the democratic talks required to provide for a guarantee of peace in the long term?
The Deputy should be aware that I have never responded and do not intend to respond to statements from Sinn Féin. As I said already, it is a matter for the parties concerned, Sinn Féin and the British Government, to respond to the type of question put forward by Deputy De Rossa. In relation to the work going on between the two Governments to try to develop a peace formula, I am clearly and unambiguously referring to a permanent cessation of violence that will lead to lasting peace in Northern Ireland. The two Governments are working behind the scenes in that regard and we will continue our efforts to find a formula for peace that will bring to an end the violence on both sides — there is no point in trying to stop violence on one side if it continues on the other. We must direct our efforts to try to bring about an environment whereby the men of violence on both sides will lay down their arms. That is the only way we will achieve lasting peace in Northern Ireland.
I am now proceeding to other questions to the Minister for Health. These are priority questions for which 20 minutes only is provided under Standing Orders of this House.