It is proposed to take Nos. 6, 7 and 2. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: 1. Nos. 6 and 7 shall be decided without debate; 2. The Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and adjourn not later than 4 p.m.; and 3. The proceedings on the Second Stage of No. 2 if not previously concluded shall be brought to a conclusion at 4 p.m. tomorrow.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal that Nos. 6 and 7 shall be decided without debate agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and adjourned not later than 4 p.m. agreed?
Yesterday I asked the Taoiseach if he could arrange for a debate on the increasingly grave situation arising from the German Government's decision to attempt to restrict Irish beef exports, which has led to a slur being cast on all Irish food on the German market and signs being put up in supermarkets saying they do not sell Irish beef.
I would prefer if this question was dealt with in a more appropriate manner. It does not arise on the Order of Business.
There should be a united approach in this House——
This has nothing to do with the proposal regarding items Nos. 6 and 7.
It has, Sir. I wish to have a debate in the House which is not permitted by the time available——
I must ask the Deputy to follow the appropriate procedure for that purpose.
I am proposing that the House does not adjourn today at 4.45 p.m. but instead adjourns at 7 p.m. so as to allow for a debate——
I take it the Deputy is opposing the proposal?
I do not want to oppose this proposal as that would not be constructive. I would prefer if the Taoiseach agreed, as we requested yesterday, to a debate on this very serious matter for Irish jobs and farmers.
I cannot allow extraneous matter to enter into this debate.
It is serious enough.
The question——
This House must be seen——
Deputy Bruton, please desist. The question before the House is——
Sir——
Deputy Bruton, please desist.
——I hope you realise the seriousness of this matter. I also hope the Government realises the seriousness of it.
The question is that the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and adjourn not later than 4 p.m.
I hope the Minister for Agriculture. Food and Forestry will think it worth his while to turn up for the debate which I am seeking. He did not turn up last night when this matter was debated.
Please, Deputy Bruton.
This is a serious matter and I know the Taoiseach——
Deputy Bruton, the Chair has been on his feet for some time——
——who is involved and familiar with the food industry in a private capacity is aware of the seriousness of this matter.
——and is being treated with disdain by the Deputy in possession.
The German Government is treating Ireland with disdain.
This is not the time for speech making.
The German Government is treating Ireland with disdain in this matter. My quarrel is not with the Irish Government but with the German Government which is not treating Ireland fairly.
Deputy Bruton, the position on the Order of Business is becoming impossible.
I hope the Taoiseach will respond to this matter.
Deputy Bruton knows that he has the opportunity to raise this matter during Private Members' time next week, if he so chooses.
It will be too late.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputies opposite should not lose the rag: if they are not careful, they will be blown off course by the boom.
What about the unemployed?
Please listen to the Taoiseach.
The Government is prepared to offer one hour's debate on the issue this evening, and the Whips can arrange this. I hope this solves the problem in the House.
I wish to thank the Taoiseach.
This cannot go on.
I am merely trying to be helpful to the House. The Chair rules what is in order in this House, not the Deputy or I.
I raise this matter only because of its importance, and not because of any lack of respect for the Chair.
Please, Deputy, we may not go further in the matter now.
I am grateful to the Taoiseach for his proposal and I accept it.
May I ask again if the proposal that the Dáil shall sit tomorow at 10.30 a.m. and adjourn not later than 4 p.m. is satisfactory? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with the proceedings on the Second Stage of No. 2 agreed? Agreed.
Deputy De Rossa rose.
Deputy Mary Harney is offering.
I am the only Deputy on his feet.
We are a bit confused over here, a Cheann Comhairle.
The Deputies are aware of the manner in which I call speakers
I am more than happy to give way to Deputy De Rossa.
The Chair had to call someone else so that he would not have to take me.
(Interruptions.)
There is great co-operation on this side of the House in these matters so I will give way to Deputy De Rossa.
Thank you.
They are ganging up on you, a Cheann Comhairle.
At least there is some courtesy left in this House.
That is unfair. The Chair calls the Opposition Leaders in the order of seniority and numerical strength. I meant no disrespect or discourtesy to the Deputy, and he must know that.
Regarding item No. 8 on today's Order Paper will the Taoiseach bring forward the Revised Estimate — Vote 40 — Social Welfare for 1994, so that we can have a debate here on the disgraceful manner in which the Minister for Social Welfare and his Minister of State are treating tens of thousands of married women in this State, denying them their rights to social welfare benefit arrears?
The Deputy may ask when this matter will be brought forward but he may not proceed to make a speech; it is quite disorderly.
I am asking a legitimate question. Will this matter be brought forward for a debate? It is on the Order Paper.
The Deputy is about to make a speech as well.
I am asking a question, a Cheann Comhairle.
The Deputy is well aware that the Whips can discuss this at any time. It is a matter for the Chairpersons of the appropriate committees to decide when they want to debate any Estimate. I do not have any problem with it.
Will the Taoiseach bring forward the Vote?
It is not up to me.
It should be, the Taoiseach is in Government and is supposed to be the boss.
I thank the Taoiseach for agreeing to debate the BSE matter. That is important because there is virtually no disagreement in this House, or with the German authorities. Deputy Avril Doyle and I raised this matter on the Adjournment last evening and I look forward to a longer debate on the matter.
Will the Government consider providing time to discuss many of the worthwhile reports now being published for instance the ESRI report and the Task Force report on small business? Much valuable work goes into the preparation of these reports and this House never discussed for example the report of the Commission on Taxation, which is a pity.
I am sorry, Deputy Harney——
Will the Taoiseach consider providing time, particularly on Fridays, for consideration and discussion of these reports, even if it was just a question of noting these reports, which would focus our minds——
Clearly these are matters which should be discussed with the Whips.
Perhaps the Taoiseach could answer my question?
The Government have no objection whatsoever to having a debate on the many important reports published. I suggest that the Whips meet, have a discussion, and arrange an appropriate time.
A list of legislation to be published during the session October to December 1993 contains a promise to introduce An Bord Bia legislation. Where is this Bill? Have the problems between the Minister for Tourism and Trade and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry been sorted out?
Is the Bill promised?
Will we ever see it, or is this document——
(Interruptions.)
They are making a dogs dinner of it anyway.
Is the word "hope" or "expected" included in that list?
(Interruptions.)
I am sure the word "hope" or "expected" appears somewhere in that list. That Bill is well advanced.
Is that what the Minister for Tourism and Trade thinks?
A Cheann Comhairle, I beg your indulgence to allow me make a point of order because I am trying to be helpful.
Thank you, Deputy.
A Cheann Comhairle, do I detect a note of sarcasm, in your voice?
Thank you. I know you would have recognised that, Sir. In the many years I have been a Member of this House I have never seen the Leader of the Opposition dismissed by the Chair in the manner in which you dismissed him this morning.
Deputy, please.
On a point of order——
Deputy Harte, that is not a point of order, it is a serious allegation against the Chair.
I am suggesting that if you had listened and used a certain amount of discretion we could have approached this——
Deputy Harte, I will not be lectured by you; it is most audacious of you, who aspires to the Chair, to reflect on the Chair in that manner.
I quite agree with you, a Cheann Comhairle——
I must ask you, Deputy, to resume your seat now or leave the House.
Surely, a Cheann Comhairle you are not going to ask a Deputy to leave the House on a point of order?
It is not a point of order.
I am trying to be helpful, a Cheann Comhairle but, as usual, you are not allowing me to make a point of order.
Deputy, your help in this House is not welcome; invariably it reflects on the Chair.
With respect, you should be protecting me here, the same as you protect the Government.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Harte, you compound the reflection on the Chair. I must now ask you to desist or leave the House.
I just want to be heard.
Deputy Harte, you will desist or leave the House.
A Cheann Comhairle, why will you not listen to my point of view?
I have heard enough.
It would be much easier for you to listen to my point of view.
Deputy Harte, I must now ask you finally to leave the House.
I will leave the House but in protest because you will not listen to Members on the Opposition benches on major issues such as the one Deputy John Bruton tried to raise this morning.
(Interruptions.)
Could I intervene, Sir?
No. I refuse to stand here and be lectured, abused and reflected on by a member of your party who aspires to this Chair.
Deputy Harte was simply concerned about the proper ordering of business here today so that everybody could be heard. I know he intended no reflection on you.
It was no reflection on the Chair, a Cheann Comhairle.
Deputy Harte, you have a very strange way of co-operating with the Chair.
(Interruptions.)
You and I came into this House on the same day and know each other fairly well.
We do; I know you very well now, Deputy.
Yes, Sir, but you are in the Chair and I am here and you and I have the same rights.
When I want your help I will ask for it.
The introduction of promised legislation on the provision of information on abortion services in the State, has been delayed. I tabled a question for priority today to the Minister for Health which has been disallowed.
Sorry, Deputy——
Allow me to explain, a Cheann Comhairle.
I cannot, the procedures at this time do not allow me.
I am asking the Minister to state the law as it stands.
If my office can assist you, in bringing that matter forward, we shall, but you are not in order in pursuing it now.
Is it legal for general practitioners to provide information on abortion services? It is important in the public interest.
Deputy O'Donnell, there is a tradition in this House that when the Chair stands a Deputy resumes his or her seat. I must now ask you to obey that rule.
I do not want to be ejected from the House on this but you did not allow me to express a point on promised legislation.
My rulings on these matters may not be challenged here. I must now ask the Deputy to resume her seat.
In the context of the apparent inevitable delay in time — tabling the constitutional challenge to the judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Act, 1989 will the Taoiseach tell the House what implications this has for the promised referendum on divorce?
I cannot anticipate when the courts will decide or the manner in which they will decide. It is not an area on which I want to speculate.
That is not an answer.
Why is the Minister for the Gaeltacht sending letters to people in Connemara, who never contacted his Department, informing them that they will receive Gaeltacht grants?
(Interruptions.)
There is the subject matter for a thesis in that.
I will raise this matter in another forum.
I am now proceeding to item No. 6.