Vol. 442 No. 1
13 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Justice in view of the reported Garda investigation into the Women's Information Network, County Galway, the nature of the complaint made against the network; the outcome of the Garda investigation; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
27 Ms Keogh asked the Minister for Justice the outcome of a Garda investigation into the activities of the Women's Information Network, County Galway, which was providing a non-directive and non-judgmental service from a rented premises; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 13 and 27 together.
I have been informed by the Garda authorities that they received complaints concerning the activities of the Women's Information Network, Galway. Because the complaints were of a kind which left open the possibility that a criminal offence or offences were involved, the Garda judged it their duty to investigate the complaints. The complaints were then fully investigated and a file has been fowarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions for directions. These directions are awaited.
In view of the fact that the Minister for Equality and Law Reform stated that people have a right to information and to the provision of information on abortion, would the Minister clarify under what law this service is being investigated and why a report has gone to the DPP? If the service is illegal, what law has been breached or what question mark lies over it with regard to the information it is providing which, according to the Minister for Equality and Law Reform is guaranteed under the Constitution?
As I understand it, complaints were received by the Garda alleging that directive counselling was being given by the Women's Information Network in Galway. The Garda has a duty to investigate those complaints. It has investigated them, a file has been prepared and has been sent to the DPP and it will be a matter for the DPP to give directions.
Deputy McManus is correct when she says — and this is something I explained to the group when I met its members in Galway — that the amendment passed by the Irish people enshrined in the Constitution the right to receive and to impart information subject to various conditions that were to be laid down by law. This law is in the course of preparation within the Department of Health. The Government's view at that time, and it remains the Government's view, is that non directive counselling is clearly covered by the right to obtain or make available information which was provided for in the amendment.
The service provided is not directive counselling, it includes the provision of telephone numbers. The nub of the question is whether that constitutes or is likely to constitute directive counselling and that is what must be clarified here. I presume the Minister is aware that the service being provided by these people has been impeded and interfered with since last Novmber. Is the Minister saying that if telephone numbers are provided, that constitutes directive counselling and if that is the case what are the grounds for it?
That is not what I am saying because as Minister for Justice, as Deputy McManus is well aware, I have no function in interpreting the law. That has to be interpreted based on the file sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions and it will be a matter for him to decide whether a breach of the law has occurred in this case.
The Bill dealing with this matter is in the course of preparation by the Department of Health. It will clear up any doubts about the position following the acceptance of the amendments by the Irish people.
The Minister has touched on a valid point. In a climate of uncertainty allegations of directive counselling will prosper. There is a great deal of confusion among the public and general practitoners and will the Minister agree that the legislation is needed urgently to regulate the provision of information on abortion?
Did the Minister clarify with the group in Galway that it was providing a non-judgmental, noncoercive and non-directive service, which is what I understood it to be providing from my contacts with the group? Would the Minister agree that essentially counselling can only be non-directive, that it is anathema to the concept of counselling that it be coercive in any way? Would the Minister agree also that this matter is urgent because we are in clear breach of Article 10 of the Convention on Human Rights as judged by the court in 1992? Would she also agree that the matter needs to be regulated immediately and for everybody to know where the link is between information and referral?
Is the Minister aware that the Irish Family Planning Association is currently giving such information and providing such counselling services with referral to the United Kingdom? If that is illegal, will the Minister explain why the association is not being prevented from providing those services?
I am not aware of what the Irish Family Planning Association is doing. The only information I have is on the group in my city. When members of the group came to see me I also understood that they were involved in non-directive counselling. All the information they gave me suggested strongly that they were engaged in activity in accordance with what the Minister for Justice indicated would be the position following the acceptance of the amendment. The legislation to put the result of the amendment on a statutory footing is close to completion within the Department of Health and will clear up a number of doubts. In the meantime, however, once complaints are made to the Garda, it has no choice but to investigate them and prepare a file for the DPP which is what has been done in this case.
Is the Minister saying that while we are awaiting this legislation, any GP or anyone who provides information is open to Garda investigation? That is a serious matter. Surely the Minister accepts that this right does not come with the legislation and it would be an infringement of people's rights if every time general practitioners, for example, provided a telephone number or non-directive counselling, they would be leaving themselves open to Garda investigation?
Deputy McManus is trying to pursue me on interpretation of the law and my function as Minister for Justice is not to interpret the law. On the specific complaints made to the Garda — and I do not know what those complaints were or who they came from — the Garda pursued a line of inquiry, it has completed its inquiries and prepared a file which has been sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions. It is now a matter for him to decide whether the law has been broken.
Will the Minister agree that the postponement of this promised legislation in effect postpones women's rights in the matter? Will she agree also that it is strange that in the health strategy recently announced by the Minister for Health there is a glaring omission in that it fails to mention, at any stage in the four year plan, the provision of non-directive counselling for women with crisis pregnancies.
I do not agree that the legislation has been postponed. I have been involved in the preparation of legislation during the past 15 months and I know that even the simplest legislation takes an inordinate amount of time. There are consultations within the Department, at Government and within the parliamentary draftsman's office. My understanding from the Minister for Health is that the legislation is at an advanced stage.
Does the Minister agree that it is correct for the Garda to investigate the directive information which was given? I am proud that I, as Mayor of Galway, was one of the people who complained about this matter. I am not ashamed that I was one of those instrumental in having the offices investigated. I am informed by the Garda authorities that a file is being sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions.
I was not aware that when he was Mayor of Galway Deputy McCormack had a crisis pregnancy.
I complained about the offices in Galway.
On what evidence?
Before Deputy McCormack came into the House I explained that complaints were made about the Women's Information Network in Galway.
Unfounded.
They were investigated by the Garda and a file was prepared and sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions. The Garda are awaiting his decision.
