Deputy Flaherty.
Report of Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs: Statements (Resumed).
On a point of order, I was on my feet on this debate before Question Time was called. Questions were raised about whether it was in order for Deputy Owen to adjourn the debate.
On a point of order——
There is no need for that. The Minister was not called. The debate was adjourned. I am calling Deputy Flaherty.
I understand I have 20 minutes. Will the Chair then call on the Minister?
The Minister must be called on not later than 4.35 p.m.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Durkan. I am glad to have an opportunity to deal with this matter and that whatever occurred before Question Time afforded me an opportunity to contribute to the debate.
The Minister of State dealt in detail this morning with the position in Rwanda. I add my voice to the urgent call for initiatives on a speedy UN intervention. I am not sure if Deputies referred to the letter we received this morning from Fr. Finucane requesting special leave of absence facilities for civil servants who could assist in the provision of food and emergency relief. This would be a valuable additional element of our involvement. The Minister of State probably saw the letter before I did and I ask him to respond to that request.
Does the Deputy have a copy of the letter?
Yes. It is a letter from Fr. Finucane making a special plea to Ministers to facilitate leave of absence for people in the Civil Service who could contribute their services and expertise. That would be a valuable initiative at minimal cost.
Last year the first comprehensive policy document entitled Irish Aid: Consolidation and Growth A Strategy Plan was issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs. It was welcomed at the time. A major commitment in that plan was to increase the size and nature of our overseas development aid in an attempt to move towards the UN aid target from which we had receded at an unacceptable pace.
Paragraph 11.9 states:
There can be little doubt that the burden of debt which is carried by the poorest countries is a major impediment to growth and a factor in preventing them from undertaking programmes and policy initiatives for their sustainable development. The issue is being addressed mainly by the World Bank and the Paris Club which examines the easing of official, government to government, debt and government guaranteed debt. Because we do not lend to developing countries, Ireland is not involved in the formulation and implementation of debt-relief schemes. The main role which Ireland can play is to support the efforts of the main agencies through which this problem is addressed, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.
What is clear from the report of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs is that we need to expand our official policy in this area and give greater urgency to it. As early as the 1970s the non-governmental organisations identified trade and debt as being as important if not of greater importance than aid in dealing with the plight of the developing world, in particular with Africa.
Political policies and strategies respond slowly to the priorities identified by those on the ground. The Minister should see if we can develop our thinking further and ensure this area is given greater attention in our strategic objectives and at EC level although we are not players in the debt field. However, we are players in the area of trade. In their study of Irish foreign policy in the Third World, Trócaire identified our development policy as being very much the poor relation but they identified Ireland as having a significant voice in international economic forums. We contribute to forums which are major players in deciding the circumstances facing Third World states.
In the renegotiation of GATT and other international trading activities our role has been less than helpful. It has been conservative in the context of the needs of the Third World. In opening up markets, it has been protectionist rather than of assistance. While welcoming the fact that we are moving along the right road in our volume of aid, we need to look at the areas of trade and debt in the context of having an adequate development policy.
We cannot wash our hands of these problems. We have already shown we can play a role in aiding development. This issue should be very much part of our foreign policy.
Development co-operation should be seen as central to world progress. Traditionally development co-operation has been regarded as the poor relation by the Department of Foreign Affairs which is more concerned about security, defence and economic matters. Further consideration needs to be given to the concept of global human security. A valuable paper recently presented to an international conference shows that politicians and leaders are trying to develop a new framework of development co-operation based on global human security. This is very inspiring and I should like to see the Government play an active role in its development as a central rather than a peripheral concept. In a post-Cold War Europe we have an opportunity to look at security not merely as it relates to land but also to people, not just security through arms but also through development, not just the security of nations but the security of people, their homes and jobs and not just a defence against conflicts between nations but a defence against conflicts between people.
Global human security has profound implications in terms of our development policy. Deputy Lenihan said that substantial economic developments would accrue to us if we adopted a global human security policy, but I believe the benefits are much more fundamental. The wisdom of intervening in situations sooner rather than later can be seen when one considers that the cost of maintaining the troops in Somalia is approximately $2 million. If a fraction of that money had been spent ten, 15 or 20 years ago developing that country, great savings would be made today. We must learn from this experience and respond much earlier and more effectively to such situations.
We know from experience that countries which have to use massive amounts of resources to service debts at a time of great need can take a long time to recover. One can imagine the benefits which would have accured from the investment of $2 million in Somalia ten years ago in terms of socio-economic development. The investment of this amount of money in the African continent would have helped to develop healthcare and family planning services and prevent the spread of AIDS which has cost £210 billion during the past decade.
We need to develop the concept of global human security and to actively intervene in issues involving debt and trade. Our traditional way of supporting the Third World has been through the allocation of aid. However, if we adopt a concept of global human security we can help expand development co-operation based on mutual contracts between nations instead of one way transfers and investment, in the common objective of global survival, global prosperity and a new respect for human security throughout the world. These objectives would be much more beneficial than spending money on military equipment, as was the case previously. Third World countries spend vast amounts of their resources on military equipment. Rather than looking over our shoulders to ensure that we do not revert to the old camps, we should be preaching a message of demilitarisation and increasing the level of funding for development co-operation.
Some months ago I attended a play in the Abbey called "The Famine" by Tom Murphy. This play dealt with the famine in Ireland and the export of crops to England to pay taxes, tithes and other debts during a time of very great need. The same is happening today in Africa, at a time of great need vast resources are being used to service debts. Even though there have been repeated references to this scandal there has been no clear response.
The Sub-Committee on Development Co-operation recommended that this country as part of its foreign policy, should request the IMF to write off Africa's debt through the sale of its gold stocks. The Minister rejected this recommendation and gave his reasons for doing so. Having identified the enormity of the problem, Oxfam has also recommended that the IMF should adopt such an approach. The Minister has said that it would not be feasible for the IMF to adopt this approach due to the consequences in terms of the price of gold, the level of gold reserves and the credibility of the institution. Yet he did not put forward any alternative recommendations other than voicing support for the ESAFS which gives priority to social programmes. However, I do not think this is an adequate response to this enormous problem. The Minister must put forward some concrete proposals in this area if he rejects this fundamental recommendation of the committee.
I wish to refer to the Oxfam initiative and its document on the crisis in sub-Saharan Africa. Some years ago Trócaire, which makes a valuable contribution to development policy, dealt with the level of Third World debt and its impact on individual countries. Its frightful consequences and those of policies adopted to date, have exacerbated extremely difficult conditions in countries which are trying to provide basic living standards for their people.
I wish to quote the following comments of Oxfam in that document:
The massive expenditure on debt payments has reduced spending on social services, education, health and food subsidies which affects the poorest and most people in these countries.
Most of them are poor.
I support Oxfam's fundamental statement which is:
Africa simply cannot simultaneously maintain its present level of debt repayment, implement successful adjustment programmes and cope with drought.
Africa is the continent in which I have most interest and direct involvement. That Oxfam statement is one we must all support. While welcoming the debate today and the many initiatives taken over the past 18 months in relation to our development co-operation programme, this issue was inadequately dealt with in the Minister's speech. I hope, when replying, he will indicate a willingness to re-examine this, consult again and further develop our policies in this area. If he cannot accept the recommendations of Oxfam or of the Sub-Committee on Development Co-operation there should be a more dynamic policy adopted by the Department.
The Oxfam position paper, entitled "The Economic Crisis in Sub-Saharan Africa" states:
According to World Bank classification, five of the region's countries are identified as suffering from an acute debt problem: Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe.
In a number of those countries in which we are already or are becoming involved, our intervention and interest can be of enormous significance.
In addition to a global policy perhaps the Minister would take on the task more suited to our interest, to develop strategies for application to be pursued in all international fora for the priority countries in which we operate through our bilateral aid programme.
I hope this debate has developed a greater understanding of the problem, that the Minister will return to the drawing board, re-examine his policy — perhaps beef it up — and that of the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Government on the developing world and the debt problem it faces. It is an issue to which our people respond as best they can. It is important for politicians to give a lead in the more complex areas requiring intervention in fora to which politicians have unique access. I hope we will see significant progress in this area, that in ten or 15 years we shall not be facing this problem without having substantially resolved it.
I thank Deputy Flaherty for having given me some time. I regret I was unable to be present for the earlier part of the debate as I had to attend another meeting. I congratulate the Minister of State on his recent trip to Rwanda.
Events in Rwanda in recent weeks not only shocked people in the developed world but served as a warning of the likelihood of such events recurring. It is also a sad indictment of the developed world that, despite modern facilities, the free world is absolutely helpless to deal with such events. It has been said, with some justification, that had there been minerals or enormous wealth in the region good reason would have been found to intervene earlier. The counter argument refers to body bags but many bodies found in Rwanda were not put in bags. The events there are a sad reflection on all of us.
We must seriously encourage, through the United Nations, an intervention to protect unfortunate civilians. We have been unable to do so in Bosnia, in Africa and elsewhere. It is time we concentrated more on that aspect. The loss of 500,000 lives over a short period is an incredible indictment of the developed world and proves that man's inhumanity to man has not changed much in the past 10,000 years.
I should like to pay tribute to the volunteers of Irish aid agencies who relayed such vital information on conditions in those countries. Governments in the remainder of the free world should respond in a positive manner.
According to a late news bulletin on television last evening ten or 12 nations have been identified by the United States as being future trouble spots, involving political unrest and instability necessitating aid. The Minister of State should use his influence throughout the remainder of the free world to identify such trouble spots in time, thereby ensuring that at least the rudiments of safety are provided for unfortunate, unprotected civilians.
I thank Members who contributed to this most useful, wide-ranging debate. I thank Deputy Durkan for his comments on my recent visit to the Rwandan region on the borders with Tanzania, Uganda and Nairobi. On that trip I represented every Member.
I shall endeavour to respond to the points raised, beginning with the letter, quoted by Deputy Flaherty, written by Father Aengus Finucane. I should like to pay tribute to the work of Concern in the Ngagara camp, especially on the border of Tanzania and Rwanda. These workers form part of the major international efforts being undertaken in these troubled zones. We have seen it in Somalia and Sudan. I witnessed it in Cambodia and elsewhere. The organisation is highly regarded. The leader of the Concern operation in Ngagara is a Dutch man. I have enormous respect for their work.
On the letter quoted by Deputy Flaherty, which sought leave of absence for people willing and suited to help in emergency circumstances, I will study this matter and see what can be done. It is a very practical proposal but, obviously, I would have to consult my ministerial colleagues and so on. I met Father Jack Finucane, brother of Father Aengus Finucane, while I was in the region.
Deputy Flaherty also mentioned the question of global security. This matter is being considered at the United Nations within the context of the Secretary General's agenda for peace. His agenda for development will be considered at the next meeting of the Economic and Social Committee of the United Nations. I will address that meeting in New York at the end of June. The fusion of the agenda for development and that for peace within a restructured United Nations will constitute a major step forward in advancing this concept of global security to which the Deputy referred. She referred also to the World Bank and asked what should be done. The World Bank give concessional loans to countries to buy oil, etc., but the reality is that many of these countries do not repay the debt. What is required here is for the G7 countries — the big lending countries — to put together a package. I would remind the Deputy that we will be producing a White Paper on the debt question.
Deputy De Rossa asked about the airstrip at Ngagara. In this case, Concern initially requested that something be done to help with the project. Irish aid personnel visited the region and investigated a number of options, including the possibility of upgrading an airstrip. The plane on which I travelled landed on this airstrip and I can tell Deputies that it could not take heavy cargo aircraft. The UNHCR co-ordinator, Maureen Connolly, said the upgrading of the airstrip was not an immediate priority. What she was really saying was that there were other priorities, such as roads and the provision of camps for the additional people coming into the area, higher on their priority list. Concern agreed.
Deputy De Rossa suggested that we do something concrete and I can assure him we will because one of the proposals that has emerged was the provision of water pumps. I saw thousands of people queuing for water. The Government will provide support for this essential project.
The IMF has consistently taken the position that it cannot write off debts based on the idea that the fund is not a bank but a lender with a special position in the international monetary system. Its function is to lend to overcome the balance of payments problems of members. In effect, it is now principally a lender to developing countries, and is the lender of last resort for the poorest. Any attempt by the fund to take a lead in writing off debt which would not in any case get sufficient support from fund members by liquidating its reserves would fall back on the borrowers.
The IMF is funded by its members. A burden-sharing arrangement is in force under which creditors and debtors contribute to the fund's expenses. In practice, further expenditure implies higher rates of interest for borrowers and that, in effect, means the developing countries. This also applies to writing off reserves. Writing off reserves would leave the fund in the position of having to build them up again to guard against involuntarily incurred bad debts. Building up reserves involves increasing the rate of charge which is what debtors — developing countries — would have to pay. This is a live issue with the IMF considering the correct way to provide against bad debts. A couple of serious default cases, such as Sudan and Somalia, could, on their own, wipe out most of the fund reserves if they eventually became bad debts to be written off. That is reality.
The Minister for Finance has publicly supported calls to increase debt reduction and forgiveness. Writing off the sub-Saharan debt completely as a bad debt will destroy investor confidence for a long time to come. Without large scale investment the situation will deteriorate further, so commercial investment is much more important to developing countries than aid.
Following a request from my Department I have been informed that the whole question of Rwanda will be on the agenda for the Corfu Summit. I am sure Deputies will welcome the fact that this matter will be taken up by the Heads of State at the European Summit.
Deputy Flaherty looked at the global perspective. As I said this morning, there is a need for more dialogue by the three major institutions: the World Trade Organisation, the IMF and the World Bank. I agree with many of the points raised by the Deputy.
I thank all who contributed to this very useful debate. I thank the House for giving me the opportunity to share my experience in Rwanda and to outline how I feel we should deal with the issue. As a small nation we do not have all the answers, many of which lie with the bigger powers, but that does not mean Ireland should not play an active part internationally in trying to deal with these issues.