Mary Harney
Question:9 Miss Harney asked the Minister for the Environment the present position regarding proposals to extend voting rights to Irish emigrants; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2270/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Emigrants' Voting Rights.
Michael Ring
Question:57 Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Environment the Government's views on whether the constitutional evidence provided by Glor an Deorai and various constitutional experts shows that a referendum is not required to incorporate the Irish abroad into the electoral process; if the Government will give recognition to the cultural, social and financial input into Irish life by the Irish abroad; the reason Ireland is the only country in Europe that doesn't grant the emigrants some form of voting rights; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2508/95]
Robert Molloy
Question:61 Mr. Molloy asked the Minister for the Environment the present position regarding a commitment given by the previous Government in the Programme for Government, 1993 to 1997, to grant voting rights to emigrants; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1875/95]
Ivor Callely
Question:64 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for the Environment the progress, if any, that has been made towards giving voting rights to emigrants; the additional rights, if any, he is considering; the time schedule; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2368/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 57, 61 and 64 together.
In accordance with the commitment in the policy agreement, A Government of Renewal, and as announced by me on 31 January 1995, the Government has authorised the drafting of a Constitution Amendment Bill to provide for the election of three Members of the Seanad by Irish emigrants. Overall membership of the Seanad will remain at 60 and the new Members will be in substitution for three of the 11 Members who, under the existing Article 18.3 of the Constitution, are nominated by the Taoiseach. It is intended that the referendum on the Bill will be held at the same time as the proposed referendum on divorce.
I am preparing detailed proposals for legislation to govern such matters as entitlement to vote at elections of emigrant representatives to the Seanad, registration of electors and conduct of the elections. These proposals will be announced well in advance of the proposed referendum.
Will the Minister accept that these proposals fall very far short of what was expected and required? Will he further accept that offering emigrants the right to elect three Members of the Seanad will not generate much interest among emigrants? The general public do not vote in Seanad elections and, therefore, have no interest in those elections. Since 1987 my party has argued that emigrants should be given the right to vote in general and presidential elections. I appeal to the Minister to refashion his proposal. I assure him that most emigrants will not bother to vote in Seanad elections. This low take-up will give future Governments a good excuse not to meet the legitimate demand of emigrants and their spokespersons that they be given the right to vote in general and presidential elections.
The attitude of the Deputy's party to the Seanad is well known.
That is not the point.
It is a correct attitude.
I met Glór na Deoraí, one of the representative bodies for emigrant groups. It welcomed the positive decision by the Government to acknowledge for the first time the legitimate right of emigrants to representation. The Deputy's party was in Government for a period since 1987 and the Deputy had the opportunity to vote for a Labour Party Bill which proposed to give emigrants the right she is now demanding from the Opposition benches. Unfortunately, her party did not support that Bill when it was put to a vote. Progress is now being made in this area and there will be a referendum on a constitutional amendment which will provide for the election by emigrants of three Members of the Seanad. The Seanad will be the richer for having three Members elected directly by our emigrants and we will probably be closer to the representative assembly envisaged for the Seanad under the Constitution. I look forward with enthusiasm to promulgating the necessary legislation.
Mindful of what was said during the course of the debate on the Labour Party Private Members' Bill to extend voting rights in general elections to emigrants why has the Labour Party done a U-turn on this issue?
I look forward to the day when the Labour Party will be able to form a majority Government — that day is probably not too far away — but in the interim——
Back to reality.
—— I am required to negotiate with other parties. The current Administration consists of three parties and they have hammered out a consensus on the programme for Government. This proposal is a substantial advance on anything that has gone before. On the question of U-turns, having reluctantly defeated the measure when it was brought before the House it is interesting that the Deputy now argues in favour of it.
May I take it that the Labour Party is still in agreement with the Progressive Democrats that the right to vote in general and presidential elections should be extended to emigrants but, because it is not the major party in the Coalition Government, it has accepted something less? If that is so, would the Minister gracefully admit that the Progressive Democrats found itself in a similar position——
The answer to the question is "yes".
——when in Government with Fianna Fáil which was opposed to extending the right to vote in general elections to emigrants?
The Labour Party supports all the provisions in the programme, A Government of Renewal. This proposal is a substantial advance on the rhetoric of the past. It is the first concrete proposal to give emigrants a voice in the Houses of the Oireachtas and has been welcomed. I am aware that there is pressure being brought to bear to grant them representation in this House——
It was Fine Gael's milk and water proposal.
——but it is a substantial advance.
The Deputy has done more somersaults than the Chinese State Circus.
The Deputy will find that this proposal will be enthusiastically supported by Members on this side of the House. I hope it will be seen as a major progressive step forward supported by Deputies opposite.
The Minister has done a U-turn.
On a day when we have had an enlightening speech in this House by the President is the Minister satisfied with the proposal that our emigrants be allowed to elect three members of this Seanad? I gather from what he said that this is a token gesture. Would he care to elaborate on which party would not go along with the Labour Party proposal to extend full voting rights to our emigrants? The Minister referred to the holding of referenda. May I take it that this means that regulations will be put in place before elections to the 28th Seanad are held? Is the Minister considering extending any other rights?
I do not share the Deputy's disparaging view of Seanad Éireann and I do not regard it as a token gesture. I had the privilege to be a Member of Seanad Éireann for four years and I recognise it as an important part of the Houses of the Oireachtas——
I did not refer to the Seanad; I was referring to the proposal.
The proposal that our emigrants have three representatives in Seanad Éireann is a substantial advance. During the lifetime of this Dáil the Seanad will be particularly relevant because of the balance between the Government parties and the Opposition. If a constitutional amendment is passed it will not be possible, until after the next general election, for our emigrants to vote but it is a significant and important advance. It mirrors the sentiments expressed by the President this morning in her address to both Houses of the Oireachtas and will be welcomed as a significant measure in regard to the diaspora about whom the President spoke so movingly. In response to the Deputy's other questions, I will not divulge the details of discussions I have had.
What about transparency?
I will do my best not to divulge the details of discussions I have had in the past with Fianna Fáil unless someone, before a committee of this House, breaks a confidence.
(Interruptions.)
I compliment the Government for recognising our emigrants. All previous Governments did was talk about them.
That is a speech, not a question. Where is the question?
The Deputy's party was in Government for seven years; we have been there seven weeks.
I was not there for seven years.
(Interruptions.)
Fine Gael watered it down.
As this Government intends to be in office for a long time I hope it will be possible to extend the right to vote in Dáil elections to our emigrants.
That is a great question.
I compliments the Government on recognising our emigrants. All previous Governments did was talk about them.
The Minister should take a bow.
I am grateful to the Deputy.
While I welcome this proposal as a progressive step has the Minister considered the practicalities? Is it likely that our emigrants living in Europe or the United Kingdom will take seats in the Seanad Chamber or is it the case that they will be represented by people living here? Would this have the desired effect? Three people will be elected to the Seanad. How does the Minister propose to go about giving our emigrants a vote and distribute the seats among the Irish centres of population?
On the question of who should be elected this will be a matter exclusively for our emigrants when the register of electors is established; they can elect whoever they like. It is a not a matter for us to determine in advance who should be elected.
Will they be entitled to travelling expenses from Australia?
On the nomination procedures a number of important issues need to be addressed. I will bring proposals to the Houses of the Oireachtas and will be willing to listen to the views expressed on whether there should be a single constituency, a representational constituency or nominating bodies of emigrant groups. Those issues remain to be addressed. The principles have been established and I want to act speedily to give them effect.
I welcome the proposal in so far as it goes. I do not believe this is a party political issue and I ask the Minister to consider referring this matter to the appropriate committee of the House. We also need to consider the cost implications. Deputy Molloy raised this matter. A Senator travelling from New York would receive approximately £2,500 in travelling expenses. Does the Minister envisage this causing difficulties?
And £5,000 from Australia.
It sounds attractive——
I will emigrate in order to stand for the seat.
The Deputy made a helpful suggestion that a committee of the House discuss the issues that need to be addressed. In discussing the question of Oireachtas reform this matter was considered whereby the views of the Oireachtas would be sought in advance on principles before any decisions would be made. In this instance I am minded to accept the Deputy's suggestion.
Does the Minister accept that 90 per cent of his constituents and mine have never voted in a Seanad election? Anything I may say about Seanad elections will not relate to the esteem in which I hold the Seanad and its Members.
Again I ask the Minister to acknowledge that there is no interest among the general public in Seanad elections and that the emigrants, the children of the parents I described, are unlikely to be interested in voting in Seanad elections. The whole matter is totally impractical. It is well known that the work of the Seanad is part-time. Any emigrant interested in politics and in pursuing political objectives will not be interested in having a seat in the Seanad. If we, on this side of the House, decide to re-introduce the Labour Party Bill introduced by my late colleague, Deputy Gerry O'Sullivan, in the coming months, will the Labour Party in Government do the honourable thing by supporting that Bill which will give voting rights and a place in this House to our emigrants?
I am not surprised but I am deeply disappointed that this positive, progressive and substantive proposal from the Government is treated with such disdain by the Deputy's party. Membership of the Seanad will represent an important, innovative and significant reaching out to our emigrant population. I believe it will be warmly welcomed by the people when the referendum is put.
The Minister has done a U-turn. He did not believe that when he spoke in this House. That Bill, which was a Fine Gael measure was debated in this House.
Let us hear the Minister without interruption.
It is difficult to listen to a Deputy putting forward a point of view now when he voted down that point of view when the opportunity was given to him. That attitude does not merit comment.
Let him put it now.
This welcome advance is innovative.
We were honest. The Minister is not being honest.
This is a new Government which is mould breaking in many instances——
Be careful of that.
——because few would have said that those three parties could have come together in the way they did. We will break many moulds and there will be many innovations. Many things not done by our grandfathers and great grandfathers will be done on foot of the decisions of this Government.
Pure hypocrisy.
That concludes Question Time.
A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I must be given an opportunity to highlight the Labour Party hypocrisy on this issue.
Please resume your seat, Deputy Molloy.
If the Minister reads the record he will see that the Progressive Democrats put their convictions on the record and were honest. We did not adopt the hypocritical attitude of the Labour Party.
When does the Minister consider somebody an emigrant? In view of what I said about the problem of definition and the fact that, particularly in the west, people tend to emigrate for two or three years and return, will the Minister consider granting postal votes to people who have been on the register in an Irish constituency but who are living temporarily outside the country? Will he allow them to retain those postal votes for perhaps two or three years? That would result in a much better form of representation than that proposed here.
That is a separate question. Broadening the franchise for Dáil Éireann elections is an issue that can be addressed.
I am talking about people already on the register.
I welcome the views of Deputies opposite on that matter.