Deputy Michael Ahern is in possession and has some nine minutes remaining.
Private Members' Business. - Non-National Roads Funding: Motion (Resumed).
The following motion was moved by Deputy Dempsey on Tuesday, 14 March 1995:
"That Dáil Éireann, mindful of the severe economic deprivation being caused, the unacceptable hardship caused to many families and the damage being done to local agriculture, tourism and manufacturing industries by the rapid disintegration of our county roads infrastructure, condemns the Government for the reduction in funding for non-national roads and calls on the Government to recognise the crisis and increase the level of funding for these roads."
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:
"Dáil Éireann notes the major financial commitment of the Government in supplementing local authorities' own expenditure on the maintenance and improvement of non-national roads and, in particular, notes:
—the substantial level of grants provided by the Exchequer in 1995;
—the provision of £94.898 million made for such roads in the Estimates for 1995;
—the additional £8 million provided in the budget for such roads, bringing the overall provision for State grants for non-national roads to almost £103 million in 1995;
—that when the exceptional, once-off provisions, made in 1994 are excluded, the 1995 grant provision for non-national roads is at a record level;
—the Government's initiative in commissioning a report on the overall state of the county road system and its intention to put in place a coherent and integrated plan to achieve the necessay improvements over the next ten years."
—(Minister of State at the Department of the Environment.)
I wish to share my time with Deputy O'Leary if that is agreeable.
I am sure that is satisfactory and agreed.
There was discussion last evening on the reduction in the State grant provision for non-national roads from £107 million to £103 million, when the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Deputy Allen, was about to explain how that constituted an increase. Will he inform us how that could possibly constitute an increase, an explanation to which all mathematicians look forward? All our constituents using county roads will be extremely interested to learn how there could have been an increase in such funds from £107 million to £103 million.
The Minister for the Environment announced a reduction in the county roads grants last week, then took to the skies and flew off to Van Diemen's Land, knowing that that announcement constituted a threat to all our people, something for which he will be remembered for many years.
Nonsense.
I was shocked at the Government's reduction of 4 per cent, from £107 million to £103 million for county road programmes for 1995, a significant reduction which does not make any provision for inflation. This has come as a bombshell to Fianna Fáil and people living in rural areas, as our commitment to the improvement of county roads has been proved. In former Governments Fianna Fáil increased the grant for county roads from £32 million in 1986 to £107 million in 1994. The county road funds grants for Kerry were increased from £2 million under the Fine Gael-Labour Coalition Government in 1986-1987 to £5.220 million under the Fianna Fáil-controlled Government of 1994. I am astounded at the 20 per cent plus reduction in these grants for Kerry in 1995.
I want to refer in particular to the position in County Kerry, the fifth largest county, being placed sixth in the per capita league nationwide but, as far as rate support grants are concerned, figures 16th only in the national league. Other major factors which render County Kerry severely handicapped as far as the provision of funds for county roads is concerned are the low effective rateable valuations in the county compared with other counties, such as Clare — although I have nothing against the people of County Clare — which benefits from a rates income of approximately £6 million from the ESB alone. In County Kerry there are 2,500 miles of county roads in an extraordinarily bad state of repair, thus a reduction of over 20 per cent in the total grant allocation for non-national roads in 1995 is a disaster.
Apart from the very low rate support grant, the impact on the low, effective rateable valuations is very serious as County Kerry does not have the larger industrial projects on which huge amounts of rates can be collected, it is dependent on a low valuation base for rates, on service charges — water, sewerage and domestic refuse collection charges — to make up the shortfall in running all the county's services annually, including the maintenance, repair and improvement works on county roads, including resurface dressing.
The Minister is well aware that the roads in County Kerry and other counties in the west were not built to cater for the weight and volume of traffic they now carry and will continue to carry to the year 2000 and beyond. It is commonplace now to see trucks carrying total loads of up to 40 or 50 tonnes on such roads. This means that Kerry County Council and other local authorities may have to abandon some of their county roads, thus all the money spent since 1987-88 will be wasted because of the lack of maintenance funds.
Kerry County Council increased its already high allocation for county roads by £100,000 in its Estimate for 1995 in anticipation of obtaining a substantial increase in funding from the Department of the Environment, the former a clear indication of the commitment of county councillors and management to the improvement and maintenance of county roads. I have no doubt that the proposal contained in the last paragraph of the amendment to this motion — for an integrated plan to achieve the necessary improvements over the next ten years — will be viewed with bewilderment on the part of users of county roads. How can one ask people whose cars are being damaged and broken daily on these county roads to wait ten years for necessary repair and improvement works.
This Coalition Government started off badly as far as people in rural areas are concerned. I call on the Minister and Government to refund the road tax collected in County Kerry, and every other county, to the relevant local authorities, thus enabling them to embark on a realistic scheme of repairs, improvement and surface dressing of our county roads at present in such a bad state. The reduction in the rates support grant for county roads and non-national roads has been one of the bombshells of the latest budget and is viewed with dismay in rural areas.
I should like to share my time with Deputies Connaughton, Lynch and Finucane.
This is a good political motion tabled by Fianna Fáil. I commend it on availing of this opportunity to highlight what all Members have drawn to the attention of the Minister for the Environment. I spent all day on Monday listening to the same rigmarole by Fianna Fáil members of our local authority comparing last year's allocation with that for this year, not a fair comparison because the initial allocation for my constituency last year was smaller than the present one, one I consider an initial one. When the Minister decided this allocation he based it on an estimate prepared by an outgoing Fianna Fáil-Labour Administration which had set in train an estimate less than required and that for which Deputy John O'Leary has been asking. I have no objection to Deputy O'Leary seeking additional funds because his request will assist us in our efforts to ensure that these funds are increased.
In spite of that initial allocation last year we were fortunate to have received an additional allocation towards the end of last year for two reasons: one was the European elections for which we received an additional £5 million or £6 million, the second an allocation of £20 million from the tax amnesty; they were over and above the initial allocation of the then Minister for the Environment, Deputy Michael Smith. Altogether we received an excellent contribution from the Exchequer for local authority works last year. Yet, in spite of one of the largest allocations ever, our roads are in a disastrous condition.
Money is not the answer to the problem. There must be a planned programme in which money will be set aside over some years specifically to improve county roads. That work does not simply involve filling potholes here and there at the political persuasion of members of local authorities at their meetings dealing with roads. Our constituents are complaining about the condition of non-national roads. Filling in the potholes is the political answer to the problem, but it is not the solution.
I have no doubt that the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin, with his Cabinet colleagues will properly structure a programme to address the condition of those roads which are important to all of us. They are important to the farming community, the business community and rural Ireland. Having regard to how they link into the national primary routes and the allocation for county roads from the National Roads Authority which is not responsible to this House or the Minister for any of its decisions, we must have a planned approach to address the problem of county roads. We may need to take an unpopular decision of allocating specific funds through specific taxation, perhaps additional taxation on petrol which would affect all motor vehicle users. We may have to ringfence money from a specific tax and use it to repair the roads at the discretion of the Minister for the Environment and his Department thereby diverting it from the Department of Finance, a procedure to which that Department would no doubt object.
In 1994 State assistance to local authorities for non-national roads in my constituency was paid in the form of discretionary grants. That means that local authorities make specific allocations out of their resources to maintain roads in their areas. If a member of a council wishes to check the contribution of their area to road funding, whether it be Kerry, Tipperary, Westmeath or another county, they will find that some counties made an effort through local authority resources to invest a reasonable amount of money in non-national routes. My local authority area invested £1.4 million in non-national routes last year. That was in addition to the discretionary grants from the Department. The result was that we had a reasonable input in county roads at local level in that we could spend funds and not be directed and dictated to by officials of central Government who always endeavour to influence either an engineering section or local authority members as to how money is spent. I am aware that EU co-financed grants are available for county roads. That was dealt with by the Minister in his statement which addressed the public recognition of this problem. I have called on my colleague, the Minister, in this regard. He made a major impact in the Department of Health in an area of specific need when he was Minister for Health. At that time rather than allocate funds which could have been lost in health boards, he identified that a specific job had to be undertaken and entered a contract with consultants. As a result, additional hip replacement and other vital operations for which people were on waiting lists for many years were carried out. I have no doubt that the Minister, Deputy Howlin, will adopt a planned approach to this problem because, as we are aware, throwing money at it is not the answer.
Rural Ireland is devastated because of the recent bad weather which did not result from our having a rainbow coalition or because we had a change in Government, it was determined by the Lord above. We must respond to the problem. Obviously the Exchequer was not aware that we would have bad weather conditions so it could not have budgeted for the present problems. I am not criticising the previous Government in this regard, but it reduced the Estimates for the Department of the Environment and we have had to retrieve those funds from the Department of Finance similar to the manner in which all Departments seek such funds. I am not satisfied with the allocation for county roads but I am confident that there will be an increase in the funding and I have no doubt that all Deputies on this side of the House will co-operate with the Minister, Deputy Howlin, to ensure that rural Ireland is not forgotten in the allocation.
I take the Fianna Fáil motion with a grain of salt. I do not deny that the money provided this year for the repair and reconstruction of county roads is not enough. It goes without saying that it is not sufficient. The £102 million made available for roads is the second highest allocation in the history of the State.
A speaker last night said it was the highest allocation ever.
The highest allocation for roads was made last year and this is the second highest. Last year £15 million of the tax amnesty was added to the allocation for roads. The tax amnesty was a once off, non-recurring nest-egg. The Exchequer allocation for roads is considerable. This year it is approximately £10 million higher than previous allocations with the exception of last year's nest-egg to which I referred, but it is still not enough.
As I represent a rural constituency, it would be foolhardy for me to say that enough money has been allocated for roads. Roads have been underfunded for many years by successive Governments. I am not pointing the finger at any particular Administration. Fianna Fáil Deputies and others realise that has been the position for the past ten to 15 years. The people who live in the heartland of rural Ireland have a nightmare existence traversing roads which, in some cases, are no better than those in Bosnia or Ethiopia. Can anyone in this House blame any householder, businessman, farmer or schoolchild who is frustrated, angry and depressed because of the conditions of roads outside their houses? Many families in rural Ireland travel mostly on county roads, probably for 80 per cent of their journeys. Only very few would spend much time on the major traffic routes. It is obvious that the level of funding for roads during the past ten years has been insufficient. Two years ago a county engineer said that given the level of funding for county roads for the previous few years he would expect it would be 37 years before a road tarred this year would be tarred again. That is the type of investment that has been made in our county roads during the years. Poor county roads attract great local interest, but the impact at national level is a good deal less visible. Is that because the majority of people living in cities and towns are used to somewhat better road surfaces and the condition of county roads does not attract national attention? The issue may not be a sexy enough matter to catch the national imagination. It has come to the stage that rural Deputies had best raise the matter on the agenda quickly because there will be a networking effect in relation to this matter in rural communities from Galway to Cork and in Monaghan, Cavan and other counties who do not like what they see.
I find it inconceivable that in the context of European funds that will be available through various operational programmes over the next five years that a sizeable tranche of the money cannot be made available for an improved road structure. The Fianna Fáil motion is pure hypocrisy and opportunistic because Fianna Fáil members, more than other Deputies, are aware of the position. I understand a top level committee in the Department of the Environment is considering this matter. I, like Deputy Ferris, do not doubt that if the Minister were given half a chance he could address this problem. I am sure the Government would back him. It is important that we show the people of Ireland what is required in this regard, the bad condition of our roads, how much money will be needed during the next five years to repair them and where we will get that money. The important question is who will bell the cat. There has not been a single word from Fianna Fáil about where one is likely to find the extra money. Since it could not be found while Fianna Fáil was in Government for the past eight years, it would be difficult to expect them to find it in Opposition. All we have is a crumbling road structure. I accept that criticism will not fill the potholes. We will have to do better. No matter what we do over the next five years it will be better than what went before.
Much has been said about how to increase the funding now that £100 million is not sufficient. There was mention of a surcharge on petrol and diesel. As a nation we must accept that we have a national crisis in regard to county roads. If we get to the stage of levying a few pence per gallon on petrol and diesel two things must be done. First, it must be used precisely for the reason it is levied. Second, and more important — I do not know how this can be written in red ink in the Department of Finance — it cannot be used as a substitute for money which the Exchequer should be putting in. It will always have to be a topping up fund. A sum of £100 million will not solve our problem in any one year, it will have to be substantially more. If the public is given those guarantees, it would go along with it.
We have a national emergency. Old practices and remedies did not and will not fix deteriorating county roads. We have to seek value for money. There has been no shortage of evaluations through the years as to how the money was spent. On a cost of benefit analysis it appears everything is OK. I doubt that. We should get better value for money and I hope the investigation being carried out by the committee will reveal more about that. I cannot understand the reason participants in the social employment scheme cannot perform small tasks such as reducing the water tables of the small roads of rural Ireland.
I sincerely hope we come to grips with this problem. The motion before the House is purely for point scoring purposes. It will not fill a single pothole. I want to see more road mileage of tar and chips in order that people in rural Ireland will be proud of where they live.
The motion, as proposed by Deputy Dempsey, has my sympathy. It is difficult to adjust to being in Opposition. Fianna Fáil look like a party in need of bereavement counselling. The Fianna Fáil Party did not lose power as such, rather it was whipped from their hands. In the words of their Leader: "I had it in my hands one minute and it was not there the next. It seemed to vanish".
I do not intend to speak about county roads or rural roads but about the roads which I and Deputy Liam Burke know only too well — the roads in Cork city. Last year the quilt exhibition came to Cork. It had been advertised far and wide and announced well in advance. The majority of visitors coming to the city thought it was held in Olive Plunkett Street. They stood there in their droves and looked at the road and said it definitely resembled a patchwork quilt, as does every other street in the city.
Following my election I recall walking up the steps for a vote. A Minister of State in both the former Government and in the present Government walking up behind me said: "My God, the roads in Cork are terrible". I turned around and looked at him with bemusement and said: "Yes, they are. Did it take a by-election to tell you that? Had you not been told up to this?" They are not in an appalling state because of this Government. They have been getting into that state for the past ten years. We do not have potholes, we have trenches. We have trench warfare. The end of Oliver Plunkett Street is a trench. This is the street by which the majority of people going to Dublin leave the city. Deputy Liam Burke is smiling, he knows how to avoid it.
We should take a look at how Cork city has been treated in the past ten years in relation to road funding. Grants for the years 1985-94 to Cork Corporation for non-national roads fell from £1.99 million to £1.2 million. For most of that time Fianna Fáil was in Government. Even if the allocation for this year was doubled it still would not be sufficient because we have to deal with a backlog. The manner in which roads have been neglected is frightening.
We have been calculating how much funding local authorities get and the amount of road they have to look after. Everyone knows that county councils have much longer stretches of road, but city roads get greater usage and need more repair. We need to address that problem and to discriminate in favour of areas of greatest use which are in need of greater maintenance. A matter which needs to be addressed immediately is that £24 million is allocated to new road development on the south side of Cork city while only £600,000 has been allocated to the north side. I will be making representations to the Minister on that issue in my own capacity. Our sympathies should be with Deputy Dempsey, for whom I suggest bereavement counselling.
If it is acceptable I would like to allow some of my time to Deputy Crawford.
I am sure that is satisfactory and agreed.
I do not intend to dwell on the statistical data or draw comparisons with previous years. That has been elaborated on sufficiently by previous speakers. The motion is opportunistic on the basis that the Government has been in power only for three months. Fianna Fáil was in power continuously for seven years. The problem in our counties where there are discussions, meetings, petitions and so on is putting much pressure on politicians. Similar meetings took place last year and as a result of pressure additional funding was provided. At that time people were threatening not to vote in the European elections because of the condition of the roads. There is no point dwelling on history, but I would like the Government's performance to be assessed at the end of this year in the same way as was the previous Government's performance at the end of last year in terms of the funding allocated. I have no doubt the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Howlin, is committed to improving the condition of county roads. There are similar problems in Wexford.
We are all exposed to pressure at county council meetings and naturally the Opposition will oppose. I anticipate that at the next meeting of Limerick County Council councillors from the Opposition parties will lash the present Administration. However, it is very important to put the issue into perspective. Many of the problems have been caused because roads are no longer able to sustain the increased volume of traffic on them. This year Limerick County Council provided an extra £1.3 million for county roads. I hope the Department of the Environment will recognise this increased allocation by topping up the amount given to the council. The council has to raise this additional funding through local service charges. I would like to think recognition would be given by the Department to the sacrifices which had to be made to raise this finance.
Recently 200 people attended a meeting about county roads. When the sumps of cars are damaged, tyres are punctured etc., it is only natural that people's emotions run high and that there are calls for improvements to be made to the roads. The Minister stated that desperate diseases require desperate remedies and it may be necessary for him to top up the funding given to councils.
Local communities also have a responsibility in regard to roads maintenance. One of the major problems is caused by water flowing from land onto the roads. This may be due to neglect by the owners of the land. The people on the community enterprise development programme in Limerick are applying themselves to their task and engineers can now say that not alone will the roads be repaired but drainage will also be carried out. I hope this type of work will be expanded. Some of the problems have been created by successive Governments who gave redundancy packages to outdoor workers leading to a reduction in the work force.
The Minister asked county councils to submit proposals to him. The programme he intends to develop will put forward recommendations on the strategies which should be adopted to ensure a proper road network in each county. This could be achieved within a number of years. I look forward to the provision of extra funding later this year to improve the road network. I hope we will eventually be able to solve the problem.
I thank my colleague for sharing his time with me. The condition of county and regional roads causes problems for all of us whether we are in Government or Opposition. I was amused and somewhat annoyed that Opposition Deputies should put down this motion when their party in Government did not use the funding under INTERREG as additional but rather as an alternative to Exchequer funding. The problem started with them. I am disappointed that the funding under INTERREG II is not additional. I accept that Cavan and Monaghan have benefited to some extent this year but I should have liked £1.1 million under INTERREG to have been additional, which the European Union meant it to be.
The Deputies opposite are being very hypocritical in putting down this motion. Last year the then Minister told us that the tax amnesty money was a once off which it could not be repeated this year. The Government has managed to come within a few million pounds of the amount provided last year and we are only at the start of the year. It was not until very late last year that Monaghan County Council knew that its budget would be £3.7 million, £400,000 of which was specifically for cross-Border roads. I am not happy that sufficient funding has been allocated to Cavan and Monaghan county councils which have to deal with extraordinary problems such as drumlin soil etc. I will continue to make this case, whether in Government or Opposition, until this problem is rectified. Playing stroke politics will not achieve this. We need to work together to ensure that county roads are improved and that the Ministers for Finance and the Environment provide the necessary funding to keep people in rural Ireland. If this is not done in a few years even more people will be living within a few miles of Dublin.
The Minister for the Environment must look seriously at the provision of proper funding for county roads on a long-term basis. The poultry, mushroom and dairy farms in County Monaghan have to use these minor roads if they want to stay in business and create jobs. We want proper funding and I am satisfied that the Government will provide this over the next two and a half years.
I wish to share my time with Deputies Leonard and Molloy.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
I welcome the opportunity of speaking on this motion and congratulate the Fianna Fáil Front Bench and Deputy Dempsey for tabling it.
It is obvious from listening to Government speakers that we are all singing from the same hymn book. If I was Minister for the Environment or, indeed, any Government Minister listening to the debate, I would be concerned about the contributions from Government backbenchers because they have been restrained in what they said. The frustration and annoyance coming to the surface in regard to some of the contributions is abundantly clear, particularly tonight.
At a time when every local authority is screaming for additional funding for the maintenance and upkeep of their county road network, the Government has decreased funding in all but one case. Having regard to our recent weather — when our county road network was devastated by flooding, frost, and snow — and the increasing number of vehicles using the roads, it is disgraceful that a Minister should notify a local authority of a decrease in its funding.
Fianna Fáil's attitude to this debate has been criticised. I compliment our Front Bench, it would have been wrong of them not to highlight the problem now. It must be highlighted and the Government might as well prepare itself because it will hear a great deal more about this problem. Up to now county councillors — many of whom are Members of this House — have been fobbing off constituents who complain of poor road conditions and potholes, saying they are waiting for grants from the Department of the Environment and when they arrive they may be in a position to deal with the problems. There are no excuses now for any Government Deputy, Senator, county councillor or urban councillor to say they are waiting for funding as it has been made available. However, it is not enough to maintain our county road system and some county roads will have to be abandoned.
One of the most disturbing aspects of this problem is the plight of road workers, with whom I sympathise. The outdoor working staff complement in Carlow County Council has been reduced from 150 in 1986 to a little more than 70 at present. A number of county councils are receiving only sufficient funding to enable them to maintain their existing workforces. There is no money available for the purchase of materials or the purchase or hire of plant. We will soon reach the stage when county council workers will be out with their shovels cleaning the drains and cutting the hedges while motorists drive past trying to avoid the potholes. Those workers will be subject to odium and unfair criticism from everybody using the roads. It is not their fault the roads are not repaired, the buck stops at the Minister's door. County managers, engineers and so on cannot produce the goods unless they have the funding.
The bottom line is that the Government proposed an 8 per cent increase in Government spending in the budget while at the same time reduced road grants to local authorities by up to 25 per cent. The Government cannot blame the National Roads Authority. The funding comes directly from the Department of the Environment and the problem must be resolved by the Minister. The National Roads Authority has been unfairly criticised about the national road grant allocations, but that authority cannot function properly unless it is provided with sufficient funding from the Department of the Environment.
Previous speakers spoke about the problems associated with creating, manufacturing and maintaining new national primary routes. While millions of pounds are being spent on a network of national primary roads, many county roads a few hundred yards from those magnificent routes are unfit for use. It is not good enough for a Minister or member of the Government to say they have done their best. It is not good enough in this case and the matter can be resolved only by providing an increase in the allocation for county roads and, in fairness to local authorities, sooner rather than later.
Our national and non-national road grant allocations come too late in the year. Most county councils budget for a certain amount of spending early in the year and by the time the national and non-national road grants are made available they have overspent.
If Government speakers were honest they would vote for this motion. However, as they cannot do that they must look into their hearts on this issue because it will not end with this debate tonight. This is only the start.
I support the motion. I also welcome the support from the benches opposite. If a newspaper reporter was present he or she could only report on a Government backbench revolt over road funding.
The Minister tried every trick in the trade to defend the budget. The figures were juggled in many ways by his officials, who are good at that. Last year we received an allocation of £107 million and this year it will be £103 million, including £8 million from INTERREG funding, making a total of £95 million. With the exception of the three Dublin county councils — who received substantial increases — all county councils received a reduction in road funding but those with the biggest complaint are the six counties on the southern side of the Border who were waiting patiently for INTERREG funding and who do not have discretion in spending the £1.1 million. The roads to be repaired will be selected by the Department. There was a reduction from £3.7 million to £3.5 million in Monaghan and from £4.64 million to £4.08 million in Cavan. Both counties will suffer because they do not have discretion in regard to INTERREG funding.
Deputy Crawford and I were members of a subcommittee of a British-Irish Parliamentary Body that travelled to Brussels last year when we pointed out to Bruce Millan that roads were an essential part of our infrastructure. Many questions were raised about whether this involved additionality. I asked him if he was satisfied that the Government — the Fianna Fáil-Labour Coalition — was complying with the additionality clause and he assured me it was. If he had the figures that I now have in front of me he would certainly change his opinion about additionality in 1995.
Last night the Minister gave us details of allocations. In 1983 Monaghan County Council received £470,000 for non-national roads; the following year it received £439,000; in 1985 it received £599,000 and in 1986 it received £538,000. Fianna Fáil returned to power in 1987 and immediately doubled the allocation to £1.08 million. The following year the allocation was almost £1 million. In 1989 it was £1.2 million, in 1990 £1.8 million, in 1991 £2.3 million and in 1992 £2.4 million. That is the record. Compare that with the four years when the last Coalition was in office and we see that is when the damage was done to the roads infrastructure because of inadequate funding. In 1987 we inherited the problem of potholed roads.
From 1986 to 1990 Fianna Fáil, the Government at the time, increased the allocation 400 per cent. From 1986 to 1992, Fianna Fáil, with the Progressive Democrats, increased the allocation 500 per cent over the 1986 figure. In 1994 Deputy Michael Smith was criticised because of the allocation he gave. However, in announcing the 1994 round of grants in the Slieve Russell Hotel he said he was not prepared to provide £12 million for filling potholes but that the county council would have to draw up a programme of road drainage and strengthening which would be acceptable to the Department and if they did that he would guarantee them six years of additional funding to carry out the work. The officials and councillors on both Cavan and Monaghan County Councils responded to his proposals by selecting small county roads where farmers and other road users removed the water, cut the hedges, cleaned the drains and provided the diggers to dig trenches for pipes. We complied with the Minister's request. It is regrettable that we now find the substitution of INTERREG funding for the normal funding.
We put forward a comprehensive plan to the Minister for Health for a health centre in the grounds of Monaghan hospital which was acceptable to him. When Deputy Michael Smith was there, we asked him about funding and he undertook to provide money for an inner relief road in the town which would facilitate entry to the health centre. I have a letter to the effect that the recently published operational programme for transport provided the framework for investment in national roads over the period 1994-99 but that, having regard to the overall level of funding available for national roads generally, and the many competing demands, it would not be possible to include the inner relief road among the projects. This was a serious disappointment because it brings into question a large development in which I was deeply involved with other health board members. Deputy Howlin was a good Minister for Health and I believe he will deliver on this health centre, it will be a serious blow if he does not.
After the publication of the Book of Estimates I raised the question of the cutbacks in housing aid for the elderly which was reduced by 50 per cent. At that time we were told that the increase was once-off. Tonight we are told that the money from the tax amnesty was also a once-off. I have no doubt but that we are looking at a once-off Government.
Ní hé inniu nó inné a thosnaigh an cleamhsán faoi dhrochstaid na mbóithre amuigh faoin tuath. Is fíor a rá, ar feadh mo linne sa Teach seo, gurb é droch-staid na mbóithre ceann de na rudaí is mó a chuireann as dóibh siúd a bhfuil cónaí orthu faoin tuath.
Is beag cruinniú riamh a d'fhreastal mé air amuigh faoin dtuaith nár pléadh droch-staid bóithrí áirthid i gceantar an chruinnithe, ba chuma an ab ea ag cruinniú de chumann Fhianna Fáil nó brainse den Pháirtí Daonlathach, nó coiste de mhuintir na háite — is féidir a bheith cinnte gurb é ceann des na príomh aidhmeanna a bheadh ag an pobal áitiúil ná liosta de bhóithrí an cheantair a bhí i ndian gá le deisiú orthu a chur os comhair na n-ionadaí poiblí a bhí i láthair.
I dtús mo thréimhse mar Theachta Dála, b'é an rud ba mhó a bhí ag teastáil ná go gcuirfí barr cruaidh nó tarra ar bhóithre nach raibh ach gaineamh orthu sa chuid is mó. Tar éis deich mbliain nó mar sin i ndiaidh an tarrála, bhí "potholes" ag teacht sna bóithrí sin, ach ní raibh aon phlean ceart i bhfeidhm in aon chontae chun obair dheisiúcháin nó ath-tharráil a dhéanamh de réir mar a bhí ag teastáil chun caoi cheart a choinneáil ar bharr na mbóithre. Ar feadh na mblianta níl aon ligint suas ar na gearáin faoi droch-staid na mbóithre seo agus níl aon suim airgid a chuireas leigheas ar an scéal seo go brách muna bhfuil clár rialta cúram ceart á choinneáil ar na bóithre de bharr an aimsir fhliuch a bhíonn againn ar feadh na bliana ar fad agus an sioc a thagann sa gheimhreadh; agus an méadú ar thrácht ar na bóithre seo. De réir an méid atá feicthe agamsa ar feadh na mblianta, séard atá ag teastáil go coitianta ná craiceann nua a chur ar na bóithre contae gach deich mbliain ar a laghad.
Is mór an náire nach bhfuil na comhairlí contae in ann cúram ceart a thabhairt dos na bóithre contae trí chlár rialta a bheith á chur i bhfeidhm acu agus dá bharr, tá an dea-obair a rinneadh ag suncáil na billiúin punt ag tarráil na bóithre seo an chéad lá riamh á chaitheamh san aer de bharr easpa cúraim orthu.
Is scannalach an rud é go bhfuil Airí Rialtais, bainisteoirí contae agus innealltóirí contae ar ard phá ag caitheamh an súil dall leis na blianta fada ar an méid billiúin punt atá curtha amú de bharr easpa pleanála i leith cúram na mbóithre contae, ar a bhfuil suas le 55,000 de mhíle bóithre sa tír seo. Dar liomsa, tá faillí mhór déanta ag Airí Rialtais le 20 bliain anuas, nuair nár chomhlíon siad an dualgas a bhí orthu breathnú i ndiaidh na hinfheistíochta a rinneadh i mbóithre contae le airgead cáin-íocadóiri na tíre seo.
Mar a deirtear sa sean-fhocal "An té nach gcuirfidh greim, cuirfidh sé dhá ghreim". Mar a gcéanna ó thaobh na mbóithre contae, agus níl aon leathscéal inghlactha chun míniú a thabhairt ar an faillí scannalach seo ag Rialtais agus bainisteóirí i ngach contae.
Gan dabht, beidh dream amháin ag chur an mhilleáin ar an dream eile ach tá gach páirt ciontach, go háirithe Airí Rialtais a raibh cúram bóithre acu le fiche bliain anuas; na bainisteóirí a raibh dualgas faoi leith acu ó thaobh caiteachais phoiblí; na páirtithe polaitíochta a thug cluas bodhar do gach gearán a rinneadh ag chuile leibhéal leis na blianta fada ó ghnáthmhuintir an phobail; an gearán ó na hionadaíthe poiblí, na comhairleoirí contae go háirithe; an gearán atá déanta le fada an lá istigh anseo i nDáil Éireann, agus an gearán atá déanta ag turasóirí a gcaitheann a chur suas leis na droch-bhóithre seo chomh maith.
Cén fáth a tharla an fhaillí seo in ainneoin an méid sin aird á dhíriú ar an fhadhb ag an méid sin daoine thar tréimhse chomh fada sin? Tá rud amháin dar liom nár chóir neamh-aird a dhéanamh air, sé sin, an neamh-shuim sa Roinn Airgeadais leis na blianta faoi chás na mbóithre áitiúla ar fud na tíre. Rud eile ná neamh-shuim lucht CII nó IBEC anois agus CIF sna bóithre seo de bharr iad a bheith go síoraí ag brú ar an Rialtas mórchuid airgid a chur ar fáil do na "corridors" móra ó na príomh bailtí chuig na príomh portanna, agus an phríomh aidhm atá acu ná bóthar mór amháin a thogáil ó Bhéal Feirsde síos go Corcaigh agus an chuid is mó den airgead atá ag teacht ón Chomhphobal Eorpach agus ó cháin-iocadóirí na tíre seo a chaitheamh ar chósta oirthear na hÉireann.
Ar aon nós, tar éis an méid sin neamh-shuim ar feadh na mblianta, sa deireadh, tá aithint á tabhairt go bhfuil fadhb mhór anseo go gcaithfí é a réiteach agus go bhfuil gá le gach eolas faoin fhadhb a fháil sular féidir díriú air i ndáríre. Fáiltím roimh chinneadh an Rialtais seo mar a fograíodh ag an Aire sa díospóireacht seo go ndéanfaí staidéar faoi leith ar staid na mbóithre contae agus sa staidéar sin, go gcuirfí san áireamh na hathruithe ar thrácht na mbóithre contae; an bealach a chuirtear caoi orthu go dtí seo; pleanáil todhchaí na mbóithre. Seo é an chéad am dár liom inar shocraigh aon Rialtas staidéar iomlán a dhéanamh ar staid na mbóithre contae. Tuigim ag bhfuil sé i gceist go núsáidfí toradh an staidéir seo mar bhunús do phlean caiteachais deich mbliana chun caighdéan na mbóithrí a chur ar meán cothrom ar fud na tíre.
Déanaim chomhgháirdeas leis an Aire, Brendan Howlin, agus an Rialtas as ucht an staidéar seo a chur ar bun. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an staidéar déanta ina iomlán, go mbeidh na daoine i gceannas air neamhspleách óna Roinn féin agus ón Roinn Airgeadais agus nuair a fhoilsítear an tuarascáil, go mbeidh sé le feiceáil go bhfuil an staidéar cuimsitheach, gairmiúil agus go dtabharfar cothrom na Féinne do gach aird den tír.
Is maith an rud go bhfuil príomh áit á tabhairt don tuarascáil seo ach ní fheadar an mbeidh siad in ann tuarascáil chruinn a chur ar fáil taobh istigh de dhá mhí. Cuireann sé sin imní orm dá mbeadh an iomarca deifre air.
Deirim leis an Aire, tóg do chuid ama, déan an "job" i gceart agus beidh creidiúint ag baint leis an toradh agus tiocfaidh an-tairbhe as.
É sin ráite, níl sé cinnte cé chomh neamspleách is a bheidh an staidéar. Tá súil agam go gcuirfidh an tAire in úil dúinn cé a bheas in a cheannas, cé a bheas páirteach sa staidéar, agus gur féidir linn glacadh leis an toradh agus nach rud é a chuirfear le chéile taobh istigh den Roinn gan aon bhunús seasmhach a bheith leis.
The county roads structure is the vital artery of rural life, a network of roads which connects villages and provides access for local communities to the regional and national roads network. The economic and social fabric of rural Ireland is becoming more and more dependent on the existence of a sound network of county roads. Where this lifeline is neglected and allowed to deteriorate in time it will lead to a depleted and disheartened rural community whose best efforts to sustain a viable community are undermined continuously by bureaucratic neglect. If there are roads on which doctors, nurses, vets, school buses, travelling shops and so on cannot travel it is a certainly that young people will not want to settle there and their exodus will increase at an even more alarming rate.
Rural depopulation is one of the major crises facing society in Ireland today and the lack of basic infrastructural facilities such as a good local road network is accelerating this decline. The deterioration of the county road system has long been identified as a major problem affecting those living in rural areas but, sadly, the response of those in Government has never reflected the concern of the people or the enormity of the problem. The priority in roads policy during the past 20 years has been to achieve high standard traffic corridors between the major areas of economic activity, our larger cities and the ports and airports which handle our imports and export trade. Road planners, with the support of successive Ministers for the Environment, have successfully argued for the investment of billions of pounds in the inter-city corridors to the neglect of the county roads system and the rural communities so dependent on it.
We should contrast the extensive forward planning national primary and secondary routes, where we know well in advance what the Government's plans are and what the level of investment will be, with the lack of planning of the county road system. On average approximately £6 million per mile is invested in the national primary routes as against £500 for each of the 55,000 miles of county roads on which rural Ireland depends. This is a sad reflection on politics and those in power since the mid 1970s who have continually turned a blind eye to the needs of so many of our people.
This debate reflects the chameleon nature of politics and shows how quickly one party can change its tune depending on whether it is in Government. Just over 12 months ago this House debated a Private Members' motion on this matter tabled by the Fine Gael Party, then in Opposition. Its leading spokesperson in that debate, Deputy Avril Doyle, sought to impress upon the then Minister, Deputy Smith, the need to accept that a crisis existed in regard to the condition of county roads. Motions have been tabled by both of the main parties in the House asking each other to accept that there is a crisis. Can we agree that there is a crisis and that action should be taken?
I am sorry that Deputy Leonard has left the Chamber because I wish to assure him that while I do not have a bag of tricks I do have factual information. With other Deputies, he suggested that the Border counties which qualify for INTERREG II funding have been treated badly and have not received their fair share of road grants. This is not the case.
The framework programme pertaining to the Border areas element of the INTERREG II Programme was approved recently by the European Commission and funding of £6 million is being provided this year to eligible county councils. Details of the programme will be sent shortly to the councils concerned and they will be invited to submit road improvement projects meeting the criteria of the grants scheme. The Minister has sought to facilitate the councils concerned in drawing up their proposals for funding under the INTERREG II Programme by including indicative allocations under this heading in the 1995 non-national road grants he has notified to them. Allocations totalling £5.7 million have been made to the six front line Border counties of Cavan, Donegal, Leitrim, Louth, Monaghan and Sligo and the remaining £0.3 million has been shared equally between Longford, Meath and Roscommon County Councils which qualify for limited funding under the programme. Payment of these indicative grants is conditional on each council putting forward sufficient qualifying projects so as to be in a position to expend its allocation in the current year.
In these circumstances there are no grounds for allegations that the councils concerned have not received their due entitlements under this Community initiative. It is quite clear, however, that a number of local authorities, and indeed Members of this House, had unrealistic expectations as to the level of grants they were likely to receive in 1995 and, in particular, a limited understanding of the factors which would affect this. I will outline briefly, therefore, some of the factors which applied.
First, as has been already explained, the funding available for non-national roads in 1994 was boosted by the once-off injection of £15 million from tax amnesty receipts.
Second, the EU co-financed scheme of specific grants for road improvements relates to projects which have a significant economic impact and facilitate local employment creation. The allocations are based on proposals submitted by local authorities themselves and these are evaluated and prioritised on a merit basis and checked for compliance with EU criteria. It is the very nature of this scheme that allocations to local authorities will tend to fluctuate from year to year depending on the size and scale of individual projects. This can be illustrated very simply. In 1994, South Dublin County Council received less than £400,000 by way of an EU specific grant in respect of a particular improvement scheme. Due to contractual commitments under this scheme it received in 1995 a massive allocation of over £2 million. Similar situations arise elsewhere. These swings and roundabouts will tend to even out, however, over the life of the programme, which will run until 1999.
Third is the inclusion of special allocations totalling £0.5 million in the 1994 grants in connection with road works associated with the Shannon-Erne waterway which was opened to cruisers last year. The need for similar funding for the local authorities concerned does not arise this year.
Fourth, a number of the councils which qualify for INTERREG assistance received allocations totalling £1.1 million in 1994 for pilot schemes intended to promote community involvement, in money or kind, on road works in their areas. These grants were identified as being over and above the normal grants for the councils concerned. The pilot scheme concept, which was initiated in 1992, now has a proven track record and is being applied generally by local authorities around the country. In the circumstances, the practice of giving special grants to a small number of councils is being discontinued.
Fifth, councils in Border areas were specifically told in 1994 that their EU co-financed specific grant allocations took special account of the absence of INTERREG funding in that year and, in the circumstances, allocations under that grant scheme were higher than would obtain once the INTERREG programme was approved.
Sixth, in some counties work on the reopening of cross-Border roads was completed, or substantially completed, in 1994 with the result that grant allocations for this purpose are not required and can be reduced this year.
It is worth while putting those points on the record and reassuring the House that the benefits of the funding have been channelled to the areas which are entitled to such support and that this has been done in an equitable and reasonable manner.
In so far as the six Border counties are concerned, listening to this debate one would get the distinct impression that these counties had fared particularly badly in the recently announced grants. That is simply not the case and I can illustrate the point quite easily. The grants allocated to these counties average almost £2,000 per mile of non-national road, whereas the corresponding figure for all other counties combined — excluding the Dublin authorities — amounts to just over £1,500 per mile. This establishes clearly and beyond doubt that the Border counties have fared very well and that there are no real grounds for complaint.
Deputy Molloy has graciously acknowledged the initiative taken by the Government in relation to the drawing up of a report. I assure him that all the implications, including the funding implications, will be taken into account in that report.
Who will draw up the report?
Finally I would like to say——
I must ask the Minister of State to conclude as I am obliged to call Deputy Ó Cuív.
The record of Fianna Fáil must be remembered in this regard. If we are talking about U-turns——
We put it on the record last night.
——we saw them tonight and last night——
There have been no U-turns. The money was there — £26 million to £107 million.
Nobody will forget the money that has been spent in the past.
Tá súil agam go dtabharfar an oiread deis domsa ag deireadh mo chuid cainte agus a tugadh don chainteoir deiridh. Cuireann sé áthas orm deis a bheith agam labhairt ar an ábhar seo. Sa díospóireacht inné, rinneadh tagairt do go leor figiúirí. Is é fírinne an scéil gur fíor-bheag an t-airgead a caitheadh ar na bóithre contae idir 1983 agus 1987. De réir a chéile ó shin, tháinig méadú ar an airgead sin agus, san iomlán, caitheadh £109 milliún anuraidh. Cé go nglacaim leis go raibh £20 milliún curtha ar fáil ón maithiúnas cánach anuraidh bhí sé i gceist ag Fianna Fáil, dá mbeadh siad i Rialtas i mbliana, cur leis an airgead sin de réir an ráta boilscithe. In ionad sin is éard atá tar éis tárlú ná go bhfuil airgead na bliana seo laghdaithe go £103 milliún. I gcás Chontae na Gaillimhe tá laghdú £800,000 ar an gnáth-airgead a chuirfear ar fáil do bhóithre contae. Táan laghdú sin tar éis an t-airgead speisialta ó na cistí struchtúrtha a fhágáil ar leathtaobh. Ciallaíonn sé seo go mbeidh suas le 80 bóithrín nach gcuirfear cuí orthu i mbliana. Leis an drochaimsir, is ionann sin agus a rá go bhfuil 80 bóthar nach mbeidh daoine in ann taisteal orthu i mbliana de bharr an ghearradh siar seo.
Of all the issues that one comes across in rural Ireland, the question of roads tends to be one of the most emotive. For too long the policy on roads has been dictated by the economists and the manufacturers who are, in the main, operating from major urban centres. With the major increase in funding last year there was some hope that at last the crisis in rural Ireland in relation to roads was being tackled. Last year was the first time that Structural Funds made a significant impact on the county roads problem.
Credit must be given to the Fianna Fáil-Labour Government for having negotiated that funding in Brussels. However, the roads allocation this year is a big disappointment. It is difficult to understand how a Government, which managed to add £200 million to the Estimate prepared at the end of last year by the outgoing Government, reduced the allocation for county roads by £6 million.
This problem must be seriously addressed. As one person said to me in Connemara the other day, "I would be quicker getting from Dublin to Galway than I would getting from my home in Connemara to Galway city". That is an indictment of the Government. The Government's attitude to this problem can be summed up in the following terms: out of sight, out of mind. Because a large number of the worst roads are located in isolated rural areas, the problems being faced by the people living there are not being given serious consideration.
Many roads are now totally impassable and, with the recent bad weather, there is total destruction of the road surfaces in many areas. The vast increase in traffic on these roads, particularly heavy goods vehicles which are necessary for a vibrant economy, is also causing serious damage as most rural roads were not designed for this type of traffic.
Last night the Minister of State spoke about the need for local authorities to put more of their own resources into roads. I find that difficult to understand from a Government that promised to abolish service charges. Most rural county councils are already imposing much higher service charges than their urban counterparts. For example, in my own county the water rate in the county area is £115 per annum compared to £50 in Galway city. What is the Minister of State proposing? Does he expect local authorities to increase water charges further or is he suggesting that we put toll gates on all our county roads? The Minister should explain how to reconcile a policy of increased local authority expenditure on roads with the elimination of service charges.
The Minister of State also criticised Fianna Fáil for wanting to keep a control on current budget spending, particularly the current budget deficit, while at the same time calling for additional expenditure on roads. This criticism however has no validity. Fianna Fáil is saying the Government must get its priorities right. There is a limit to the amount of money that can be spent by a Government, but it must be directed at the areas in greatest need. Every person in rural Ireland will say that county roads should be one of the highest priorities of any Government. It is difficult for most people in rural Ireland to understand how the Government could increase spending so much this year without giving a major increase for roads. Major expenditure on county roads should not add to the current budget deficit as it would be basically capital expenditure which over time would give a return in economic activity on the investment made.
Surely the Minister understands that one of the greatest difficulties in running a business in rural Ireland is the lack of a proper roads infrastructure. It has been made clear time and again by industrialists looking at rural locations for industry that one of the biggest problems is bad road infrastructure. I was involved in setting up a major industry in Connemara, and I know how much the road infrastructure hindered our efforts. If the Minister is serious about rural development a major programme of work must commence this year to ensure the roads network is brought up to an acceptable standard. In the Dáil yesterday the Minister said a plan is being prepared. To talk at this stage about assessing the position and preparing a plan is nonsense.
Why was it not done previously?
The county council in my area prepared a detailed five year plan, a copy of which I will give to the Deputy if he wishes — I understand most other county councils have prepared similar plans. The plan includes details of every minor boreen in the county.
The plans are there.
We can do the work but not without money. It appears the National Roads Authority has no plan for national secondary routes. Its concentration on national primary routes to the exclusion of national secondary routes leaves large sections of the country without access to decent national roads. Large parts of the west are 50 or 60 miles away from the nearest national primary route. The National Roads Authority must put forward a comprehensive plan for national secondary routes. It is about time it clearly spelled out what it intends doing in the next five years and explained its policy on the development of the very important national secondary routes. It seems it would be easier to get information from the KGB in its heyday than it is to get information from the National Roads Authority. I call on the Minister to ensure that the National Roads Authority publishes a detailed five year plan for all roads under its charge and that it responds with full information to queries from public representatives, whether Members of the Oireachtas or members of local authorities.
The battle of the national roads network is only beginning. This is not a time for procrastination and excuses; it is a time for action. It is time the Government realised what is needed is a major injection of capital into the county roads structure in the next five years to bring it up to an acceptable standard and ensure there are decent roads to all houses. This is a fundamental human right. While not begrudging the people of Dublin extra road finance, it seems strange that extra finance was made available to the Dublin County Council this year while funding for a county such as Galway, where roads are impassable, was severely cut back. This indicates where the Government's priorities lie, despite the lip service of commitment to rural Ireland.
On the issue of a carbon tax, I would ask the Minister to lay off. Because of high taxes on fuel, industries and individuals operating in rural Ireland pay much higher tax than their urban counterparts. For example, whenever a person in a rural area needs to visit a hospital it often entails a round trip of 70 or 80 miles. Allowing for normal fuel consumption, tax paid on fuel would amount to £3 or £4. This is what I call a hospital visiting tax, paid by people in rural areas. Similarly, with most other activities that involve travelling to major urban centres, rural people, because of the high tax on fuel, pay tax at a much higher rate than their urban counterparts.
For businesses this problem is acute. For example, if one compares a company operating out of Dublin with a company operating out of Connemara, allowing for sales of one lorry load of goods per day, exported from the east coast, the difference in fuel tax paid is £10,000 per annum. Taking an industry such as that in my village that exports ten lorry loads per day, the difference in tax burden on fuel amounts to a whopping £100,000 per year. This is obviously not sustainable. To make this position worse is unthinkable and will be resisted by anybody who has the interests of rural Ireland at heart. The people of rural Ireland will no longer tolerate being second class citizens in their own country, paying high fuel taxes and vehicle taxes. They have had enough.
I call on the Minister forthwith to seek extra funding for the county roads network. I suggest he begin by getting an extra £50 million for the road network this year, with an increased amount each year for the next five years. If there are difficulties in getting such resources I suggest the Minister talk to the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa, who has shown himself very able this week in procuring an extra £140 million for his Department — where there is a will, there is a way. I am delighted that women will receive their equality payments. I call on the Minister for the Environment to take equally seriously the requests by the people of rural Ireland for equal treatment in the basic matter of access to their homes and businesses.
Tá mé 25 bliana ag saothrú i gceantair thuaithe. Táimid ag snámh in aghaidh an easa i rith an ama sin faoin fhadhb seo. Cuirim fáilte roimh an ardú san airgead LIS a fuair Contae na Gaillimhe i mbliana, ach ní leor é. Tá mé ag troid seo le tamall fada anois. Tá daoine in a gcónaí ar bhóithre sa chontae seo againn agus go leor contae eile nach bóithre comhairle contae iad. Fuaramar tuarascáil ón chomhairle contae anuraidh agus cruthaíodh ag an am sin, ag an ráta a bhfuilimid ag fáil an airgid faoi láthair, go dtógann sé deich mbliana le bóthar a dhéanamh faoin LIS, sin an scéim faoin a n-íocann na daoine iad féin 10 faoin gcéad den airgead le caoi a fháil ar an mbóthar. Mar a dúirt mé, is séanadh cearta daonna nach mbeadh bóthar ceart ag chuile dhuine go dtí a dteach; go bhfuil cásanna ann anois nach bhfuil dochtúirí ná tréadlianna ná banaltraí in ann dul chuig tithe seandaoine mar nach bhfuil bealach ceart chucu.
Mar urlabhraí do na hoileáin, cuireann sé uafás orm nach gcuirtear airgead speisialta ar fáil le fadbhanna na mbóithre ar na hoileáin a réiteach. Bunáite na n-oileán ar an gcósta níl aon infrastruchtúr ceart bóithre acu agus tá sé in am anois díriú ar an bhfadhb sin, airgead faoi leith a sholáthar do na hoileáin agus déanamh cinnte de go bhfuil a gcearta bunaidh curtha ar fáil do phobal na tíre seo.
Ba mhaith liom Binse Tosaigh mo Pháirtí féin a mholadh as ucht an rún seo a chur síos. Tá súil agam go n-éisteoidh an Rialtas leis an méid atá á rá againn, agus go dtiocfaidh siad aníos le airgead breise a chaitheamh ar na bóithre ach nach ndéanfaidh siad é ar dhroim mhuintir na tuaithe atá ag íoc níos mó náa gcion cheana féin do na bóithre agus go minic, d'fhéadfá a rá, nach bóithre iad.
I welcome the Deputy's conversion to the cause of county roads. It is a delight to witness.
Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 61; Níl, 50.
Tá
- Barrett, Seán.
- Bell, Michael.
- Bhamjee, Moosajee.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Bree, Declan.
- Broughan, Tommy.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burke, Liam.
- Bruton, Joan.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connor, John.
- Costello, Joe.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Currie, Austin.
- Deasy, Austin.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Doyle, Avril.
- Dukes, Alan M.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Brian.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Gallagher, Pat.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McDowell, Michael.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McGrath, Paul.
- McManus, Liz.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
- Mulvihill, John.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- Owen, Nora.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Penrose, William.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, John.
- Ryan, Séan.
- Sheehan, P. J.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Upton, Pat.
- Walsh, Eamon.
Níl
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Andrews, David.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Blaney, Neil T.
- Brennan, Matt.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Nolan, M. J.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Leary, John.
- Ellis, John.
- Flood, Chris.
- Foley, Denis.
- Hilliard, Colm M.
- Hughes, Séamus.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Keogh, Helen.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Martin, Micheál.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P. J.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smith, Michael.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Woods, Michael.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Barrett and B. Fitzgerald; Níl, Deputies D. Ahern and Callely.
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, agreed to.