Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Jul 1996

Vol. 468 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take: No. 1 — Metrology Bill, 1996 — Amendments from the Seanad; No. 2 — National Standards Authority of Ireland Bill, 1996 — Amendment from the Seanad; No 3 — Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Bill, 1996 — Amendments from the Seanad; No. 6 — Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1996 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 7 — Disclosure of Certain Information for Taxation and Other Purposes Bill, 1996 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage and Second and Remaining Stages; No. 8 — Criminal Assets Bureau Bill, 1996 — Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; No. 19 — Proceeds of Crime Bill, 1996 — Report of the Select Committee on Legislation and Security and Report and Final Stages; No. 4 — Courts Bill, 1996 [Seanad] — Second and Remaining Stages; No. 20 — Statements on Northern Ireland.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, or anything in the Order of the Dáil of 5 July 1996, that: (1) business shall be interrupted not later than 10.10 p.m. tonight; (2) the sitting shall not be suspended between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m.; (3) the amendments from the Seanad to No. 1 shall be taken together and decided without debate by one question which shall be put from the Chair; (4) the amendment from the Seanad to No. 2 shall be decided without debate; (5) the amendments from the Seanad to No. 3 shall be taken together and decided without debate by one question which shall be put from the Chair; (6) the Second Stage of No. 6 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. today; (7) the Second and Remaining Stages of No. 7 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 4 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; (8) the Second Stage of No. 8 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. today; (9) the Report and Final Stages of No. 19 shall be taken today and, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 8 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice; (10) the Second and Remaining Stages of No. 4 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. today by one question which shall be put to the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice and (11) No. 20, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.10 p.m. today; shall be confined to the Taoiseach and to the main spokespersons for the Fianna Fáil Party, the Labour Party, the Progressive Democrats Party and the Democratic Left Party; and shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case.

Mr. B. Ahern

We will support the Government on all these measures today. Fianna Fáil is pleased to be back in session today, with a full membership of the House, to participate in this debate to try to do something about our appalling crime. The Taoiseach talked about a lady of great courage and conviction, Michelle Smith, this morning but today's business is primarily about another lady of great courage. The primary reason behind us being here today is the assassination of Veronica Guerin.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us not anticipate debate on this measure.

Mr. B. Ahern

I will not do that.

An Ceann Comhairle

The debate will arise today.

Mr. B. Ahern

I am saving a lot of time by not disagreeing with 11 items. I received one of these Bills last night and another this morning. This is not the way to treat an Opposition. I will be brief and constructive but critical at the same time. It is no way to treat us but because of the appalling situation, we must deal with this matter and be seen to do so. We will support these measures and put forward amendments.

I am glad the Fianna Fáil Bill is before the House. There was a great deal of co-operation between the Government and the Opposition on it. It may be the only measure completed today. The will and conviction of the Taoiseach and the Government in following through these various crime issues will be evident after today.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is inappropriate. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 19 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 4 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with statements on Northern Ireland agreed? Agreed. Are there any matters that arise on the Order of Business proper that are relevant thereto? If not, we shall proceed to the business of the House.

Mr. B. Ahern

I do not want to take up too much time, but the Taoiseach should note — maybe he will take it into account on another occasion — the number of questions put down on today's Order Paper. There are almost 1,000 questions from Members from all sides and parties. It shows beyond all doubt the need to have parliamentary questions when the Dáil is not sitting.

Mrs. Owen

They are all repeats.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. B. Ahern

Is the Deputy disputing our right to put down parliamentary questions?

Miss Harney

Contrary to media speculation, there is a very full turnout today. I do not see many tanned faces so Members have not been on holidays. In relation to the forthcoming referendum on bail — I asked the Taoiseach about this matter four weeks ago — has the Government decided whether to hold a second referendum on the same day on Cabinet confidentiality?

The Taoiseach

We have not made a decision on that — I understand the Deputy's anxiety that we should make that decision reasonably soon — but we will be looking at it very shortly. I expect we will examine the bail proposals next week and we will look at whether we can run the two matters together at that point. I hope we will be able to inform the Deputy about that matter and I will let her know as soon as a decision is taken.

Mr. O'Dea

When is it proposed to take Committee and Final Stages of Nos. 7 and 8? Can the Taoiseach confirm if the bureau created under No. 8 will be able to act in the absence of legislation?

The Taoiseach

I confirm that the bureau will be able to act in the absence of legislation and it will go into action virtually immediately in anticipation of the passage of the legislation, but it should be underpinned by statute as well so there is absolutely no doubt as to its powers or to the respective responsibilities of the different participants and co-operators with the bureau. That legislation will be processed during the recess in the appropriate committee and I hope it will be enacted fully into law, as far as this House is concerned, immediately on resumption of the Dáil.

Mr. O'Donoghue

The Criminal Assets Bureau Bill, 1996, is taken by the Minister for Finance. What significance, if any, should we attach to this? This Bill appears to be more proper to the Minister for Justice.

The Taoiseach

Deputy O'Dea referred to Nos. 7 and 8 not being enacted today and I answered him on that basis. That is not accurate. All Stages of No. 7, the Disclosure of Certain Information for Taxation and other Purposes Bill, 1996, will be passed today. The only Bills being left for final enactment are No. 6, the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 1996, and No. 8, the Criminal Assets Bureau Bill, 196. Both of those will be brought into law at the earliest possible opportunity after the recess and Committee Stage will be taken during the recess. Having given slightly erroneous information to Deputy O'Dea I missed Deputy O'Donoghue's question for which I am sorry.

Mr. O'Donoghue

Why is the Criminal Assets Bureau Bill, 1996 being taken by the Minister for Finance? It would appear to be more appropriate to the Minister for Justice. Should we attach any significance to this?

The Taoiseach

No. What is of significance is that all relevant ministries — the Department of Social Welfare under the Minister for Social Welfare, the Revenue Commissioners under the Minister for Finance and the Garda authorities under the Minister for Justice — are co-operating. In order that we would have the legislation quickly there was a division of the work. We wanted to ensure that all resources would be applied at Government level in the best way possible to have the best legislation available within the short time between the original decision and this session. I am very pleased at the speed at which this legislation has been produced and pay tribute to the officials, particularly the officials in the parliamentary draftsman's office, who have been so helpful and professional in assisting us in bringing so much legislation before the House so quickly. While it would be normal for politicians to claim credit for themselves, in this instance a great deal is due to permanent officials in various offices for what has been produced.

Mr. O'Dea

The Taoiseach said that all Stages of item No. 7 will be taken today. It is largely empty legislation; an enabling Bill. When will the regulations and orders necessary to bring it into effect be implemented? Can the Taoiseach give us a guarantee that this will be done within a specific timescale?

The Taoiseach

It would be more appropriate for the Deputy to raise those questions during the debate of the Bill.

Mr. O'Dea

My question relates to the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

A great deal of work has already been done on the supporting regulations but they are not included in the principal legislation because of the requirement to have the maximum degree of flexibility to alter the legislation in the light of subsequent experience to maximise its effectiveness in achieving its objectives. There will be no avoidable delay just as there has been no avoidable delay over recent weeks in preparing the major programme of legislation we will consider today.

Mr. Lenihan

When will the legislation by the Minister for the Environment to remove drug abusers and pushers from local authority estates be ready?

The Taoiseach

That legislation, the heads of which have been approved by Government, is being drafted and will be available when the Dáil resumes for immediate consideration. It is part of the crime package and, with all crime related matters, is receiving top priority for drafting and other preparatory work.

Mr. M. Kitt

Last year the Government deferred a referendum on votes for migrants. Is it proposed to hold that referendum this year?

The Taoiseach

No final decision has been taken on that matter but the possibility exists that it could be taken in conjunction with the referendum on bail. There will, perhaps, be a second referendum on another topic.