Bertie Ahern
Question:2 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the launch of Sharing in Progress, the national anti-poverty strategy. [11471/97]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - National Anti-Poverty Strategy.
The national anti-poverty strategy, Sharing in Progress, which I launched last week with the Tánaiste and the Minister for Social Welfare, is a policy document that reflects the Government's commitment to addressing, in a co-ordinated way, the issues of poverty, social exclusion and unemployment. This commitment arose from the UN Social Summit on Social Development in Copenhagen and was confirmed in Partnership 2000.
The development of this strategy has been an inclusive process involving widespread consultation and participation with the voluntary and community sector, the social partners, the users of services and people affected by poverty. The strategy addresses the five key themes which are central to tackling poverty and social exclusion. They are education, unemployment, income adequacy, disadvantaged urban areas and rural poverty. In each case the strategy sets out a series of targets to be pursued and the policy actions which will be taken to achieve these targets.
Social exclusion is a pervasive phenomenon. As our society and economy progress, there is every reason to believe that unless effective interventions are made the gap between the haves and the have-nots and the skilled and the unskilled will widen. The effects of poverty and social exclusion are felt not only by the poor, but by society as a whole. This is not just in the case of crime and drug taking, but in a range of other negative phenomena associated with disadvantage.
The adoption of this strategy takes place at a time when we have increasing jobs, rising living standards and improved services. This situation has developed because of the consistent approach this Government has taken to the management of our public finances and the economy. There will be no departure from the sound economic policies which the Government has pursued to achieve this success.
Against this background we must ensure that the benefits of economic growth are shared equitably.This strategy is not simply about targeting increased resources. It is about ensuring that Government Departments and agencies work together to maximise the effectiveness of the resources and programmes which are devoted to tackling poverty. It is a strategy to refocus resources at those who are excluded and put in place an institutional framework which aims to tackle the gaps and inequalities in our society.
Will the Taoiseach acknowledge there are still serious problems of social exclusion? While we have had major economic successes over the past decade or so, 250,0000 people are unemployed, 20,000 school leavers drop out of the education system each year, 10,000 second level students, despite their best efforts, cannot find places in universities and a large number of communities are totally excluded. According to this report 15 per cent of our population are living in persistent poverty. Will the Taoiseach outline if the Government will seriously address the issues of marginalisation and exclusion? He was correct in saying it is a feature of rural and urban areas. Many people have not gained in the past few years. While there is much talk of the increase in the number of hitech jobs and jobs in the chemical industry, the marginalised and excluded do not benefit from them. Fewer people in many communities in this and other cities, are participating in third level education than ten years ago. We are not making progress with those communities. Addressing these issues is a matter of policy for all Members. These problems will not be solved overnight and we need to direct policies at those communities. Many people are prepared to talk about our great economy, but there is not much good news in writing about hardship, social exclusion and marginalisation.People do not tend to follow that type of story; there are always other stories to follow. The Taoiseach might not wish to mention the proposals to address this problem. I do not want to hear a litany of what people are doing. We need to address these issues in a constructive way, which we should all try to do as we approach a general election and a new Government.
It is important that the issue of poverty should be at the top of the political agenda. That is why one of the proposals is that a Cabinet sub-committee will be established which I will chair and which will deal with this issue on a basis that includes the work of all Government Departments. This issue should not be dealt with at the margins of Government or political activity; it should be at the centre of political activity. It is important that there should be specific and measurable targets against which the performance of the Government can be measured — that it can be obvious from the figures used whether the Government and society are achieving their declared targets.
For that purpose we have set specific targets in regard to the factors that cause poverty. For instance, we have set ourselves a target of ensuring that no child leaves school before he or she has completed the junior certificate and that the proportion of children leaving school without completing the leaving certificate should be halved from the current 20 per cent to 10 per cent. Furthermore, we are setting ourselves the target of halving the rate of unemployment. It is the single most important cause of poverty. It causes poverty not only in income terms but, probably more importantly, in terms of shutting out people from the normal contacts associated with work which give them the capacity to have a fulfilling social life and to find out about job opportunities. When someone is locked into long-term unemployment, it is extremely difficult to break out of that cycle not only solely for income reasons, but because he or she is shut out of the information network, the basis on which people can reach employment opportunities and a fuller life.
I presume a Dáil committee will address this issue; a committee should address it. The Taoiseach was correct in saying that when a person is long-term unemployed he or she faces many difficulties. Every survey, including this one, has found that the cycle of poverty starts at a very young age. The number one priority of any proposals should be to address the problem through the education system beginning at pre-school.That is where the cycle of deprivation, crime and poverty starts in society. Any examination or study of this problem reveals that we should address the problem through the education system. This situation will not be easily changed in my lifetime or that of the Taoiseach, but if we deal with it through the education system by giving people opportunities, we could address the problem over a given number of years. To do that the necessary resources must be provided for education.
Since we joined the European Community in 1973 we have spent hundreds of millions of pounds under European Social Funds in periods when the Taoiseach and I were Ministers, but we have not moved one iota to assist the marginalised communities of this State to address the difficulties of long-term unemployment and social exclusion. While people in some communities are better off than they were in 1973, many in others are worse off. We need to address the issue in a way that will make a difference through the education system. The Taoiseach should provide whatever resources and efforts are necessary to address this problem through the education system.
I agree the problem of poverty starts at school and at pre-school. That is why under the local area partnerships, which are being assisted by my Department, specific provision is being made for pre-school education for families who might otherwise be in comparatively difficult circumstances. I had an opportunity recently to visit a pre-school in the James Connolly Centre in the south inner city, which is providing for that. I also visited another recently in Clonmel where the pre-school facility is being specifically targeted at families who might otherwise be at risk. That provides an opportunity, to the mother usually, to take some work which gives her an opportunity to have a fuller life and be able to do her job as a parent better too.
It is very important that we should set ourselves targets for education at primary level. There are, unfortunately, still some children who fall behind at primary school and the extent to which they have fallen behind only becomes apparent when they enter secondary school and are in a more competitive, measured and structured educational system. We need not introduce the same degree of structure into primary education but we need to monitor progress in primary education, particularly in respect of children who are at risk. In the target areas where there is a concentration of poverty — I am thinking particularly of urban areas — as part of the work the Minister for Education is sponsoring for schools in disadvantaged areas, for instance, home-school liaison teachers have been appointed. These teachers liaise with families as it is recognised that children frequently fall behind at school not because of what happens at school but because of what is, or is not, happening at home. It is very important that there should be a special link between the comparatively easily identified families at risk and the school through a home-school liaison teacher. That is being done on a much increased scale. A large number of measures are being put in place to deal with this issue on a systematic basis, dealing with all the factors from birth to the end of life, which contribute to people finding themselves in positions of poverty or social exclusion.
When this group is set up, it would be helpful if the Taoiseach would give just one instruction to all the State agencies telling them to leave their agency brief at home and try to deal with the problem on the ground. For 20 years I have been watching how good schemes do not work. If the Taoiseach issued such an instruction at the outset it would be immensely helpful.
I assure the Deputy that instruction has been issued in the form of the strategic management initiative. The national anti-poverty strategy is part of the strategic management initiative, which is a system whereby all Government Departments are required to manage the way they use their time and the financial and other resources available to them in accordance with objectives they have set for themselves. In the national anti-poverty strategy, as announced, the targets we have set to eliminate poverty are central to the strategic management structure of all Government Departments.
As chairman of the Cabinet sub-committee dealing with poverty I will ensure this instruction is respected by means of direction from the highest level in Government, namely the Taoiseach, to every level of Government on an ongoing basis. It is not a question simply of issuing an instruction, it is also a question of presiding over the system and ensuring the instruction is complied with daily.
The Taoiseach referred to our strong economic growth and to the need to spread it around. Some 600,000 people pay the low rate of income tax and with a 14 per cent increase in tax revenues for the first quarter all the Minister for Finance was able to do in the recent budget was take a penny of the low rate of tax. Some 30,000 people on the average industrial wage of about £15,000 are paying that kind of money. It is all very well to talk about spreading economic growth around, but when 600,000 people pay the low rate of tax and receive a 1p tax cut at a time of unprecedented growth, does that not suggest the benefits of growth is not being shared with ordinary workers?
The Finance Bill is before the House.
Most workers in the category mentioned by the Deputy know very well from the pay packets they have received in the last month, since the beginning of this financial year, that they have a substantial increase in their take home pay over and above what they had before.
One penny off tax.
Furthermore, those same families about which Deputy Brennan is speaking also know that under this Government they no longer have to pay water charges or third level fees and they are paying the lowest ever rate of mortgage payment in their lifetimes——
A lousy penny.
——in addition to having a substantially increased take home pay packet. The Deputy's attempt to try to find a negative factor is without justification. Families know from their pay packets and from scrutinisation of their finances that they are appreciably better off.
A penny off the lower rate. It is disgraceful.
In this question, we are not talking about the people on Deputy Brennan's mind, but about people on a much lower level of income who are entirely excluded from participation in prosperity other than through social welfare payments. Everybody has a responsibility for that group. There is some degree of dissonance between the questions being put by Deputy Ahern and Deputy Brennan.
Low paid workers are on the bread line also.
The vast majority of people in the poverty trap have a waiver and do not pay service charges. I will take up the point about the anti-poverty strategy in an area I represent. Politicians have often highlighted poverty in places of high unemployment like Knocknaheeny and Churchfield. There was an opportunity recently for the Government to break the cycle but, unfortunately, it was missed as these areas did not qualify for that scheme. When we questioned the Minister for Education here on the matter we were advised the Minister had no responsibility for deciding who would qualify for the breaking the cycle initiative. It is all very fine to talk about reports and strategies but here was an opportunity for the Department, the Government and the Minister to respond to local needs, yet we were told the Minister had no responsibility.
The Deputy is raising a particular matter which is perhaps worthy of a separate question.
I will be delighted to answer that question.
The Tánaiste will be familiar with my second point about third level education and the abolition of fees. We have endeavoured to get UCC to move into Our Lady's Hospital in the north-western part of the city to identify with an area from which the vast majority of young people would not normally go on to third level education. People in high places scuttled that idea saying it would cost £40 million, but they did not substantiate that figure. There has been a lot of nice talk but the reality is that those people have no hope because of the direction in which the country is going.
The Deputy has made his point adequately. Let us hear An Taoiseach.
I was very glad when I was in Sunday's Well in Cork recently to meet parents from the school to which the Deputy is referring. I understand the case they are making and I was sorry the Deputy was not there, although most of the other public representatives were there on that occasion.
The Taoiseach was not advised by his colleagues.
Deputy Micheál Martin was there and he represents Cork South Central. I understand the position of the parents concerned. This decision on the breaking the cycle allocation was made by St. Patrick's Education Centre in Drumcondra, which looked at the submissions made by various schools and on that basis they made an assessment as to which schools should be included. The Minister did not have any input into that decision; she simply approved the allocation of funds.
It is not good enough.
It would not be good enough to have this sort of thing decided politically. I disagree with the Deputy.
The Minister for Education should decide it.
It is appropriate in measuring poverty in terms of giving money for extra educational resources that it should be done on the basis of objective criteria by an independent agency. It should not be done politically. I disagree with Deputy Wallace's suggestion that this should be a political decision.
It is a cop out and the Taoiseach knows it.
It is not, and was not, a political decision but the Minister for Education, Deputy Bhreathnach, is to be given credit for making money available for the breaking the cycle initiative.Having met parents from the school in question I hope the school can be incorporated in future initiatives.There must have been some deficiency in the submission made. There is no doubt, on the basis of what I know of the area concerned, that this school should qualify. The next time there is an allocation, which I hope will be soon, I hope it will qualify.
The House has dealt with these two questions for 30 minutes, which should be more than adequate.
We appreciate your consideration because disadvantage is a huge problem in our society.
There are other questions to be answered.
The Taoiseach mentioned disadvantaged areas in cities, towns and some parts of rural Ireland. Many of the parents of children who attend St. Theresa's school in Balbriggan are unemployed, but work voluntarily to raise funds for the school. This school should be designated as disadvantaged so that children can get the assistance they need to break the cycle of poverty.
That is interesting but let us hear the reply.
We cannot leave it to committees and experts; there must be democratic involvement.
That is a question to the Minister for Education.
This school should be designated as disadvantaged because of the background of the children who attend it.
I note the Deputy's points about Balbriggan and I will take them into account. The main mechanism is to establish local partnership companies and arrangements to deal with poverty on the basis of initiatives taken by the people concerned and in consultation with them. It is important for voluntary organisations to come together in Balbriggan and in every other area where there is a problem to see what can be done. As far as my Department is concerned, I will be happy to arrange for the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Gay Mitchell, to meet any group from Balbriggan which wants to discuss this matter. I am conscious that these problems in Balbriggan are not new in that they have not occurred in the past two and a half years. I will be in touch with the Deputy, Deputy Seán Ryan and the Minister for Justice about this matter.