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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 May 1998

Vol. 491 No. 5

Copyright (Amendment) Bill, 1998: Second Stage (Resumed)

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I welcome this rather minor Bill in the sense that it gives the lie to the belief that after 11 months preparation it had been closed down in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. This is the first legislation from that Department since last June. It is an extremely minor but significant Bill. Essentially it is an abstract from a more significant Bill which is in preparation.

In respect of a Department with which the Acting Chairman will be more familiar than most, it is regrettable that we have three Ministers of such burgeoning talent from the one village in east Galway and all they have managed to produce is one section each. That is the total legislative output of the Department.

The Deputy's colleague, Deputy Gilmore, comes from the same village.

I know that. There is no doubt that the village was given to producing the great and the good.

Acting Chairman

This unnamed village is a font of talent.

It is doubtful whether we ought to engage in a major debate on copyright law. The minor measure we are introducing will be repealed in a few months as a result of the more significant Bill which has been in gestation for a considerable period. If I am wrong I presume the Minister of State will correct me in his reply. However, the major Bill will repeal all copyright law including this Bill.

As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts I did not have an opportunity to hear the Minister of State's address. This Bill has been produced because of pressure from what Graham Greene might have called "the Americans". There may be good reasons for that but this legislation is concerned with alleged piracy in specific areas. It is because of that pressure that the Bill is being taken as an abstract from a more significant Bill.

I would be the first to agree with the Minister of State that this is a complex area of law. The intellectual property unit in the Department has been put under significant pressure to produce this Bill. It is an area of unusual complexity and the staffing and resources in that unit have not always been what they ought to be. During the EU Presidency further pressures were put on the unit concerned. We are behind in terms of the implementation of European Union directives and two in particular. We are not exactly out of step in Europe in the sense that it could be argued that we are all behind on this side of the Atlantic. It is an open question as to whether there was ever a basis for the alleged inadequacies of Irish copyright law.

For proprietary reasons the software industry in the US was very aggressive and assertive in making this claim. However, if one reads the financial press it is notable that the entire US software industry does not hold that view. One company which bestrides the globe in this sector and which, happily, is located in Ireland is at loggerheads with the US Government in respect of a number of issues. Nonetheless, the US threatened to put Ireland on watch and asserted significant pressure. This Bill has emerged from that pressure though not all of the US software industry was unhappy about the supposed inadequacies in Ireland.

While not going into any depth in this debate in trying to define what we are talking about perhaps Macauley's definition is still most apposite. He said that copyright was "a tax on readers for the purpose of giving a bounty to writers." That is a pithy summation of what was seen to be copyright law long ago. From that bounty, as from all bounties, grew the gigantic, modern commercial publishing business.

From that ancient rationale we have come to the present situation of the roles of the software and film industries. It is possible to say that Hollywood, Wapping, Silicone Valley and Seattle would have us forget the ancient rationale. They would have us talk in terms of truck commerce and the great religion of our age — the false faith of economics. However, copyright and the law of intellectual property more generally is about much more. It is originally and by intention a more decent thing. It is about creating a more civilised, literate and learned society in which intellectual endeavour is cultivated and the grantaided, tax-relieved and self-absorbed creative community works for the wider social good and the stimulation and enrichment of cultural life. This high and noble interest is also evident in the origins and development of patent law.

Is it true that we are following some of the principles in the recent Trade Marks Act? It is a significant shift. In layman's English, one is guilty until proven innocent. As I see it, that is the nub of the Bill. It is a drastic measure. Perhaps the extent of electronic and video piracy is such that this is necessary. There is no doubt that one of the greatest difficulties the Minister will face in devising the new copyright Bill is getting the balance right. In terms of the competing forces, the assertion of proprietary interests and the introduction in this Bill of evidentiary presumptions in favour of the plaintiffs, it is important that we get it right.

Every country in the world is facing pressure to update and adapt copyright law and the law on intellectual property generally. The process of drafting the new Bill coincides with a major moment in history for intellectual property as a result of the emergence of the information society. It is a happy juncture for us, whatever about the alleged delay, to be bringing forward reforming legislation. How we handle the amendment of intellectual property legislation will have a major influence on what the information society will come to mean for us, who will benefit and the extent to which society will gain from it. They are major questions in terms of what might loosely be described as the US position in this area.

One of the important factors in the theoretical shape of copyright is the public interest. It may not be readily apparent that the decisions we will make in the major Bill will have profound implications for the public interest. The State should regulate or intervene only to the extent that it can be said to further the public interest. Copyright is a case in point. It is an artificial construct created by the State with the public interest in mind. In the case of copyright, the public interest may coincide at any time with the interests of any one or any combination of the groups interested in copyright.

I hope this legislation, which may seem to be minor, will be on the Statute Book for a short time. It is my understanding that the Minister expects to be back in the House in the autumn with the major Bill. We are, therefore, wasting our words on the desert air on this one. I sincerely hope the Minister will give a commitment that on the introduction of the major Bill we will have an opportunity to adequately tease out these fundamental questions. He has informally suggested that we should facilitate the passing of this Bill expeditiously. I do not think anybody is minded to obstruct its progress if there are significant commercial interests at stake, although there are significant theoretical, philosophical and public interest questions to be raised about that.

There is a presumption of guilt until proven innocent. Section 2(4) raises an established principle of the law on intellectual property, that an employee gets paid for his or her contribution but he or she does not own the copyright. What are the implications of this subsection in the era of the Internet where a journalist writes an original work of some value which can be accessed almost immediately all over the world? While the owner of the copyright may get paid a number of times, the journalist gets paid only once. It is a principle which can be translated into other propositions which could be advanced.

What is intended by section 2(8) which states that the presumption set out in subsections (2) to (7) shall apply to the same extent in any actions relating to an infringement alleged to have occurred before the date on which copies of a work were published? Does it refer to live performances? This is an area of some complexity. I fear that we are putting legislation on the Statute Book on the word and honour of the Minister without knowing the implications.

The Bill seems to give the right to assert ownership in certain circumstances. For example, if the Acting Chairman and I were to contrive to write down the notes of Boolavogue, slightly adapt them, prepare the music sheets or make a record, it seems we could assert ownership of that work. It also seems that flyboys could exert ownership of the great body of traditional Irish music of which it is not possible to trace the authors. It is not contestable. I am aware this area has been looked at by flyboys for some time who have no greater facility than I have in the business of authoring music but they can become very wealthy overnight if successful. For the reasons I explained I am happy to facilitate the expeditious enactment of this legislation. It is my understanding it is primarily driven by Hollywood and the Silicon Valley, it will be repealed on the introduction of the major Act and the Minister will give adequate time to the House on that occasion to tease out major and significant questions in terms of society and public interest.

I thank Deputies for facilitating me in dealing with this legislation and I hope to deal with all Stages in the short time available. I accept the comments of my colleagues across the floor who realise this is a breakout Bill. A number of important issues were raised which we will discuss in the context of the major Bill. I can give Deputies an assurance there will be an adequate consultation process. I envisage the Bill will be published and that there will be some period within which there will be consultation, which will not only benefit the House but outside interests.

In the past this ministry and others identified copyright as a complex area. Rather than adopt the salami approach of dealing with EU directives, the thrust of this approach is to introduce comprehensive legislation that covers the up to date position. I envisage the forthcoming Bill will be state of the art, but it will only come about if we can have the greatest possible degree of consultation. There are many areas of expertise inside and outside this Chamber into which we should tap.

I will deal with a number of the issues raised. Deputies Rabbitte, Stanton and some of my party colleagues raised the question of the protection of the position of Irish music and folklore. On the protection of Irish musical heritage, I assure Deputies that measures addressing this matter are under consideration under the copyright and related rights Bill. A number of Deputies said there is not much point in going into many of the details of that because the Bill has not yet been produced. I am determined that issue should be addressed because I also share the concerns of Deputies Rabbitte and Stanton about protecting the position of culture and folklore.

Deputy Rabbitte raised the question of staffing. He would be aware of the position in the intellectual property unit in my Department. I assure him steps are being taken to ensure increased staffing and other resources are available to the unit to discharge its vital tasks not only in the area of copyright but intellectual property so that in future our intellectual property law will be maintained at a high standard. I am conscious that area has been neglected and in trying to fulfil my ministerial responsibilities I was determined that area should be tackled as quickly as possible. Deputy Rabbitte also raised the issue of the treatment of works of employees. The existing law and this provision reflect a well established principle on the treatment of such works of employees.

I will try to reply to the points raised by Deputies and then move on to take the remaining Stages of the Bill. It is not my intention to detain the House with extensive further comments, but I wish to comment on a number of detailed matters some of which were prompted by Deputies' remarks. Deputy Stanton mentioned the slowness of copyright reform and asked why if copyright law is so important it has been left unreformed for such a long time. That neglect continued for far too long, a situation about which a succession of Governments must feel less than proud. That was acknowledged today. However, in recent years all parties in this House have shown a renewed interest in copyright as its importance for the information age economy has become clear. That point has been widely accepted throughout Irish society. This is the information age and we are well ahead in that area. Recent statistics have shown that we are the second largest exporter of software to the US. There is a responsibility on us, not only for cultural but economic reasons, to deal with this matter as quickly as possible. If reforming measures are only now coming forward, that has largely been due to the fact that resources in the Department were unavoidably focused on other priorities, including the reform of patent and trademark law and the heavy programme of work connected with intellectual property under the 1996 Irish Presidency of the European Union to which Deputy Rabbitte, then a Minister of State, referred. However, Deputies may be assured that whatever about past omissions, the Government and my Department are fully committed to the urgent modernisation of Irish copyright law and to its maintenance in a fully effective and up to date form into the future.

Deputies Stanton, Broughan and Rabbitte referred to obligations under the World Trade Organisation and said that the United States took some measures to try to push us along in that direction. Deputies referred to the contacts between the United States trade authorities and my Department regarding the level of Ireland's compliance with international law in the field of copyright and related rights and in particular to our level of compliance with the trade related aspects of intellectual property known as the TRIPs agreement. The discussion in question extended over a period of one year during the course of which the US trade authorities made clear their unhappiness that Ireland, an advanced industrial country and EU member, should have fallen so far short of putting in place a system of protection for copyright and related rights which was up to the standards required by the TRIPs agreement, a standard which must be observed on the broadest possible geographical base if the development of intellectual property is to flourish on a worldwide basis in the interests of all.

The terms of the international agreements in question were expressed in general terms so that the question of whether specific details of a particular country's copyright law is in compliance will be open to debate. I share Deputy Rabbitte's view that Ireland would not necessarily accept the criticisms of our level of compliance with the TRIPs agreement on all points, but what is beyond doubt is that taken as a whole Irish copyright legislation, which was formulated 30 years ago or more, is not capable of meeting the overall standards of protection required by modern intellectual property treaties, such as the TRIPs agreement, which are geared to the information age. Securing an effective and efficient regime of copyright protection, fully compliant with the TRIPs standard, is a major specific objective of the forthcoming copyright and related rights Bill. The Government is convinced that only a comprehensive reform measure along the lines of that Bill is truly capable of bringing Irish copyright and related rights law fully into line with our international obligations, a result wished for by ourselves and by our trading partners.

In the meantime the Government is more than pleased to bring forward the present Bill, limited as it is, as a token of its serious intent to achieve fundamental modernisation of the copyright law at the earliest possible date and as a measure which will effect a valuable improvement to the regime of Irish copyright protection in its own right for the short-term. The Government is pleased that on the basis of its undertaking to bring forward the present Bill with all speed, and I appreciate the co-operation of the House on this, the copyright and related rights Bill will be brought forward at the earliest date practicable. A better understanding has been established between the Irish and the US trade authorities which has allowed the latter to refrain from proceeding against Ireland under WTO dispute resolution procedures. I am telling it as it is.

When I took office I realised there was pressure to deal with this matter, and I have dealt with it. The intellectual property unit of the Department has been expanded and I hope a comprehensive Bill on this matter will progress with speed. We can assure Irish copyright rights holders as well as our trading partners that Irish copyright and related rights law will soon represent a leading model for the protection of the rights in question as we enter the 21st century.

Deputy Stanton mentioned the penalties, which are comparable to those in the Trademarks Act mentioned by Deputy Rabbitte. Those penalties are substantial by any standards and should be sufficient to be effective as both punishment and a deterrent to those tempted to enrich themselves unfairly on the back of another's intellectual labours. The proposals for financial penalties on summary conviction being capable of accumulation on the basis of the present Bill may appear to be a severe measure. However, the cumulative damage that can be done to the interests of legitimate rights holders and traders by what is sometimes viewed as small scale copyright piracy activities can be immense. It is the Government's view that the courts should have the power to penalise offenders in this category. Furthermore, it is the advice of the Attorney General that following recent constitutional jurisprudence in the Supreme Court, measures allowing the accumulation of summary penalties in relation to separate offences is not offensive to constitutional justice.

Deputy Stanton suggested the introduction of community service orders or other penalties for copyright offences should be considered. I will consider any such suggestions in the context of the larger Bill. Deputies should bear in mind that the penalty regime finally decided upon must maintain a deterrence profile proportionate to the offence.

Section 2(8) merely confirms the substantive presumption in the section in relation to proceedings arising out of infringements that occurred before copies of the work in question were published. Infringing action often occurs where for example copies of a work fall into the hands of pirates before it is published. This measure is a practical response to the realities of how copyright piracy works.

It has nothing to do with live performance?

My advice is that it does not. Under the Trademarks Act, summary conviction is a fine not exceeding £1,000 or six months imprisonment or both. On indictment, the penalty is a fine not exceeding £100,000 or up to five years in prison or both. The present Bill's summary conviction penalties are comparable if slightly more severe.

I thank Deputies for their co-operation. I consulted Members on the need to move forward with this short Bill. I look forward to proceeding as quickly as possible with the larger Bill and I assure the House there will be the utmost degree of consultation with Members and the wider public because there will be huge interest in this matter. Tough decisions will have to be made because there is public interest, commercial interest and lobby groups who will have much to say. It has been described as one of the most comprehensive Bills in the history of the State. There will be much work to be done.

Question put and agreed to.

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

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