Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 9 Nov 1999

Vol. 510 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 12, motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimate for Office of Public Works [Vote 10]; No. 13, motion re Referral of Supplementary Estimate [Vote 10] to Select Committee; No. 33, motion re Partnership for Peace and the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council (resumed); No. 34, Broadcasting Bill, 1999, Second Stage (resumed); No. 35, Education (Welfare) Bill, 1999 [Seanad], Second Stage (resumed).

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 12, and subject to the agreement of No. 12, No. 13, shall be decided without debate and any divisions demanded on Nos. 12 and 13 shall be taken forthwith.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Are the arrangements for dealing with Nos. 12 and 13 agreed? Agreed.

Mrs. Owen

We all note the resignation of Deputy Ellis as Chairman of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Given that the Taoiseach was fund raising for Fianna Fáil in London and that he will do so in New York—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

—does the Taoiseach feel morally responsible to repay the £25,000 of taxpayers' money that was paid to assist Deputy Ellis.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Owen, that matter is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

It has to do with the fact that the Leader's allowance, which is taxpayers' money—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business. The Deputy will have to find another way of raising it. Deputy Quinn.

Mrs. Owen

I want to raise another issue.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will call the Deputy on the other issue.

Mr. Sheehan

I thought that matter was consigned to history.

Mr. M. Brennan

The Deputy was consigned to history.

Mr. Quinn

Will the Taoiseach provide time, or has any member of his parliamentary party sought time, to make a personal statement to explain why Deputy Ellis chose to resign from this committee?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, that matter does not arise.

Mr. Quinn

It does. The Chair should be careful, it does arise. I am asking will time be made—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

A personal statement is a matter for the Member concerned—

Mr. Quinn

I am asking the question—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

—and if a Member wishes to make a personal statement, he or she contacts the Ceann Comhairle.

Mr. Quinn

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, if you will allow me to ask the question—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I heard your question, Deputy Quinn.

Mr. Quinn

No, you did not.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

When the Chair is speaking, I would ask you to resume your seat. I heard your question and I explained to you that a personal statement is a matter for the Deputy concerned.

Mr. Quinn

I wish to have the Ceann Comhairle called here because there is a conflict of interest between the Chairman of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party, who is negotiating—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Quinn, I resent that. The Chair is absolutely impartial and continues to be impartial.

Mr. Quinn

I am afraid that is not the case.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is the case.

Mr. Quinn

I do not wish to get into conflict with you, Sir, but if you would do me the parliamentary courtesy of allowing me to complete the question before you rule it out of order—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Right, Deputy Quinn.

Mr. Quinn

Thank you. May I ask you, Sir, and the Taoiseach, if the Deputy in question, who has chosen to resign both his chairmanship and membership of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, has sought to make a personal statement to this House?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is a matter between the Member in question and the Ceann Comhairle, it is not a matter for the House.

Mr. Quinn

I accept that. However, the entire country has been talking about nothing else and if the House is to maintain its relevance—

Mr. M. Brennan

The country has been talking about Woodchester.

Mr. Quinn

The entire country has been talking about nothing else, including—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The question of a statement in this House is a matter between a Member and the Ceann Comhairle.

Mr. Quinn

Did the Deputy in question seek time to make a personal statement?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. I call Deputy Owen on another matter.

Mrs. Owen

On another matter—

Mr. Quinn

Is the Chair not going to inform the House whether the Deputy in question sought time to make such a statement?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is a matter between the Member in question and the Ceann Comhairle.

Mr. Quinn

Is the Chair obliged to tell us whether such time was sought?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chair has no notice of such an issue.

Mr. Quinn

Therefore, no such request has been made?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am unaware of any request being made and it would not be appropriate for the Chair to disclose such a matter.

Mr. Quinn

On that basis, now that the Leas-Cheann Comhairle has answered my question, for which I thank him, will the Taoiseach indicate whether he intends to make a statement on this matter on the Order of Business?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

With respect, it involves the ordering of time. In light of the controversy that has arisen does the Taoiseach propose to make a statement on this matter since the Deputy in question has not sought to do so?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

Perhaps the Taoiseach might like to answer the question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Does the Taoiseach wish to reply?

Mrs. Owen

Perhaps I might offer the Taoiseach some assistance in his reply.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Owen

Does the Taoiseach intend to introduce a motion, through the Government Whip—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

—to amend the membership of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine? That is appropriate business, because if someone has resigned from the committee a motion must be introduced to indicate the name of his replacement. Is it proposed to introduce a motion on tomorrow's Order of Business?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Owen—

Mrs. Owen

I merely wish to know if a motion will be tabled.

The Taoiseach

I do not intend to make a statement other than thanking Deputy Ellis for his contribution to the work of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine during the past two and a half years. The Deputy has been an excellent contributor on agricultural and other matters in recent years and I thank him for that.

Mrs. Owen

Has he resigned from the committee, his statement does not indicate that he has?

The Taoiseach

I understand that the Deputy has resigned from the committee and I am sure his letter of resignation will be placed before the committee when it meets tomorrow at 4 p.m. Therefore, an additional member of the Fianna Fáil group will have to be nominated to the com mittee and a new chairman will have to be elected. That will happen in due course.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Owen on another matter.

Mrs. Owen

To clarify, Deputy Ellis's statement does not indicate the he has resigned from the committee.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Owen should move to another matter appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Deputy has resigned or is this another case of the Taoiseach not asking for the facts?

(Interruptions.)

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have another matter she wishes to raise?

Mrs. Owen

I do.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It should be appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

Will the Taoiseach indicate at some stage whether the Deputy intends to pay back the money he owes?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Owen.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

A total of £28,000 is owed.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Owen

If the House assists the Taoiseach in maintaining his silence, our job will become more difficult.

I wish to raise another matter. Given that the Taoiseach stated that it was a disgrace when refugees were left standing outside the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform two years ago, what action is he taking under the strategic management initiative to ensure that the facilities in place to deal with refugees and asylum seekers are adequate?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

The Taoiseach went on public record to say how disgraceful it was to leave people standing in the rain. Pregnant women were left standing until 2 a.m. or 3 a.m. outside the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform's—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That matter was the subject of a request under Standing Order 31 in the name of Deputy Howlin and the Ceann Comhairle refused him permission to raise it.

Mrs. Owen

Yes, but permission has not even been granted to raise it on the Adjournment this evening.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Was it submitted for the Adjournment?

Mrs. Owen

Yes, it was raised by my colleague.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am informed that it was not submitted in time.

Mrs. Owen

That is because he tried to raise it as a special notice question and it was disallowed.

Mr. Howlin

Since the matter I raised under Standing Order 31 was disallowed, I wish to state that the immigration Bill, which will place the Government's intended immigration policy on a statutory footing, is long overdue. Will the Taoiseach indicate when the Bill will be published? He stated previously that the Government has such a policy but when I wrote to him about it he referred my letter to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I am still awaiting a statement of Government policy on immigration matters. When will the legislation be introduced and will it be a comprehensive statement on the handling of refugee and immigration matters?

The Taoiseach

A semi-final draft of the immigration and residence Bill, which is designed to update the law on immigration, residency and other matters relating to non-nationals, has been cleared by the parliamentary draftsman. The Minister hopes to introduce the Bill in the not too distant future. The Illegal Immigrants (Trafficking) Bill is awaiting Second Stage and the Immigration Act, which involves technical deportation orders, was passed earlier in the year but the work permits Bill will not be introduced until next year. With regard to the Bill about which the Deputy specifically inquired, work has advanced to a satisfactory degree on that and I hope it will be completed in the near future.

Mr. Howlin

Will the Bill be published before Christmas?

The Taoiseach

It is probably unlikely that it will appear before Christmas. However, the Minister is anxious to try to complete it as soon as possible.

Mr. Finucane

It took more than seven years to produce a report into the sinking of the Orchidee. Will the Taoiseach indicate if the marine casualty investigation Bill listed on the legislative programme will be introduced before Christmas?

The Taoiseach

The Minister informs me that he hopes to publish the Bill during the current session.

Mr. Gilmore

For some time the Minister for the Environment and Local Government has been promising legislation to provide for the direct election of mayors and county chairpersons. This commitment appears to have been dropped from the revised programme for Government. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether the legislative intention to directly elect mayors and chairpersons has been abandoned by the Government? If not, when will the relevant legislation be introduced?

The Taoiseach

It is currently before the Government.

Mr. Quinn

The heads of the Bill?

Mr. G. Mitchell

No. 62 on the Order Paper is Private Members' Bill in my name. However, since the Government has substituted its own Bill I seek leave to withdraw it.