Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 1 Mar 2001

Vol. 531 No. 5

Ceisteanna–Questions. Priority Questions. - Visa Applications.

Paul Bradford

Question:

8 Mr. Bradford asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention has been drawn to the fact that non-EU nurses who take up positions here in accordance with existing law and regulations are not permitted to bring their spouses and children to reside with them until they have been resident for a minimum of one year; and the steps he intends taking to allow them be accompanied by their spouse and children when first taking up their position. [6202/01]

Michael Finucane

Question:

13 Mr. Finucane asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention has been drawn to the fact that non-EU doctors who take up positions here in accordance with existing law and regulations are not permitted to bring their spouses and children to reside with them until they have been resident for a minimum of one year; and the steps he intends taking to allow them be accompanied by their spouse and children when first taking up their position. [6189/01]

Alan Shatter

Question:

102 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention has been drawn to the fact that non-EU nurses who take up positions here in accordance with existing law and regulations are not permitted to bring their spouses and children to reside with them in the State until they have been resident in the State for a minimum of one year; and the steps he intends taking to allow them be accompanied by their spouse and children when first taking up their position. [6275/01]

Mr. O'Donoghue

I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 13 and 102 together.

Non-EEA nationals who are legally employed in the State may be joined by non-visa required non-EEA family members immediately, provided they are in a position to support them without access to public funds. A majority of the non-EEA nationals to whom work permits were issued last year come within the non-visa required category. Accordingly, if the family members of the persons referred to by the Deputies are non-visa required nationals, then no waiting period applies to their joining them here.

The position in respect of non-EEA nationals who are legally employed in the State and who wish to be joined here by visa required family members is that the worker in question must have been in the State for a period of 12 months and have the expectation of remaining here for at least a similar period before he or she can be joined here.

However, as I set out in my response to Question No. 373 of 12 December 2000, the require ment that a non-EEA national be in employment for 12 months before he or she can be joined by visa required family members was reduced by me to three months in July 2000, in respect of certain categories of highly sought after skilled workers. The categories in question are participants in the new streamlined working visa scheme who include IT and telecommunications professionals, construction professionals and nurses, doctors, including temporary registered doctors and persons legally employed in other high skill areas on a case by case basis and with particular regard to any advice provided by relevant State and semi-State bodies.

If the family members of the persons referred to in the Deputies' questions are visa required, they would therefore benefit from this relaxation. Information regarding this change in practice has been widely circulated since its introduction by me last summer but if the Deputies have any particular case in mind where a person has been unable to avail of the new arrangements, I would be happy to have inquiries made on the person's behalf. I will of course also continue to deal sympathetically with individual cases where exceptional humanitarian circumstances apply.

While I fully intend to keep this matter under ongoing review, in consultation with my Government colleagues as appropriate, I am not satisfied that a further change in procedures is warranted at this time.

Mr. Shatter

When a married person who applied for and obtained a visa, who is coming here lawfully and who is being employed in the State as a doctor or nurse in one of the hospitals, comes here to take up a position which we badly require filled, would the Minister accept that it is reasonable that he or she be accompanied by his or her spouse and children? Could he explain what public policy thinking lies behind maintaining a position where such people cannot be accompanied by their spouses and children when they first come here, and why there is a waiting period, which used be 12 months but is now three months, before they can be joined by them?

Mr. O'Donoghue

I outlined how the procedure has been relaxed in respect of certain categories of workers. That was a response to the labour market. I outlined that such people may apply to have their spouses and family join them after three months.

The difficulty, I suppose, is that one cannot tell whether, for example, an individual coming into the State will prove to be unsuitable for the position which existed for him or her. Therefore three months was deemed to be an adequate period within which a judgment could be made in that respect. Clearly the objective of the exercise is to ensure in so far as possible that the person concerned would not become a burden on the State. Where a person has a humanitarian ground for remaining in the State, I can assure the Deputy and the House that every possible sympathetic consideration is given.

In regard to other categories of workers, the rule, as I stated, is that the person must be working in the State for a period of 12 months or more. This has been the practice in the State for many years and there are also good policy grounds for that. I understand that in this respect Ireland is no different than other EU member states.

Mr. Shatter

Would the Minister indicate to the House, in the context, first, of doctors and nurses as these are the workers to whom the questions relate, whether, three months after such workers have taken up a position, they can be joined by their spouses and children or whether it is only after three months that an application can be made? If the latter is the case, what is the additional timeframe involved in the consideration and granting of such an application?

If it is permissible for a doctor from Canada or Australia, taking up a position in one of the major hospitals, to be accompanied the day he or she arrives in Ireland by his or her spouse, would the Minister acknowledge that there is no particular reason a qualified doctor from India or Pakistan taking up a similar position should not be accompanied the day he or she arrives by his or her spouse also?

Where visas are properly obtained and work permits properly given in a broad range of other areas in the economy, in which we are becoming increasingly dependent on jobs being filled by non-EU workers who require visas, would the Minister accept that it is a short-sighted policy to disallow those workers to bring their spouses and children with them? When they are coming here to take up existing jobs, for which they have been certified and for which work permits have been granted, would he accept that it is short-sighted?

Mr. O'Donoghue

The requirement is that a non-EEA national must have been in employment for 12 months in a normal case, and for three months in the three categories of cases I mentioned, before he or she can be joined by family members who require visas.

In the case of doctors, there has been a long standing policy position in the State whereby non-EEA doctors can receive temporary registration with the Medical Council in order to take up employment in Ireland. In recent years we introduced a more flexible means of facilitating these doctors from an immigration point of view. We have recently improved further upon those arrangements and it is my intention to write to the Irish Medical Organisation and other interested parties with full details in the near future.

The category of nurses is covered under the new fast-track working visa authorisation scheme to which I referred. The scheme enables a person to obtain a working authorisation for two years from an Irish Embassy. No further permits are required. It also incorporates a facility to enable persons not immediately eligible for full registration with An Bord Altranais to seek temporary registration for three months. If the authorities are satisfied with the person's skills, he or she can obtain a work visa for up to two years at a time. The schemes for doctors and nurses work well, but I am not so foolish as to believe everything the Department and I do is perfect. We are in consultation with the Minister for Health and Children to determine if the schemes can be improved upon.

Deputy Shatter touched upon an important matter when he asked if other areas in the labour market are being addressed and there should be greater streamlining. That is reason I have stated that there will be a new immigration and residence Bill to replace the quaintly named Aliens Act, 1935.

Mr. Howlin

It has been promised a long time.

Mr. O'Donoghue

There has been much legislation in the immigration area.

Mr. Howlin

Grafting bits on.

Mr. O'Donoghue

This is a complex area which receives top priority attention from my Department.

Mr. Howlin

The Minister will be out of office before the Bill is published.

Mr. O'Donoghue

We are developing a framework, studying international legislation and best practice in the field of immigration and examining an internal review of practices within the immigration division of the Department in order that we can put in place comprehensive legislation dealing with immigration. We have established an immigration advisory committee on which the social partners and relevant Departments are represented and which will advise on labour migration issues. We are also developing a comprehensive policy which will be reflected in the new legislation.

Innovative measures have been introduced. An effort has been made to streamline the work permit system. Last year we issued approximately 20,000 visas to those holding work permits, an amazing increase. We will continue to improve immigration procedures which have been streamlined. Immigration, as opposed to emigration, is a new phenomenon in Irish society in respect of which the legislative tools were insufficient. When I took office, it was, to a large extent, a greenfield site.

Mr. Howlin

On the right of spouses to join workers in Ireland, is there a requirement for a specific contract of employment to be in place, even after the three month period, for this category of worker? Is the Minister aware that, in the health area, because of the rules of Comhairle na nOspidéal, hospitals can only offer much needed non-consultant hospital doctors six month contracts which often preclude their spouses joining them? Does he accept that, from a humanitarian and human justice and rights perspective, it is unacceptable to ask an Indian, Pakistani or Sudanese doctor to work in the hospital system while depriving him or her of the right to bring his or her spouse?

Mr. Enright

The Minister spoke about adopting a flexible approach to these applications. I have been in correspondence with his Department during the years and, regrettably, have found it to be inflexible. I can present the Minister with the correspondence and discuss with him the situation of doctors who sought to reside in my constituency. Does he appreciate that the health service is under severe strain and that the shortage of nurses and doctors means it is heavily dependent on non-European nationals to provide a service in hospitals? Will he be in a position to remedy this? It is an outrage to expect a doctor or nurse to work for 12 weeks without their spouses being here.

Ms O'Sullivan

As today is Family Friendly Workplace Day, this might be an appropriate time for the Minister to re-examine the matter. Irish nurses and doctors have travelled to the Middle East, Canada and the United States for many decades. To the best of my knowledge, they have always been able to bring their spouses and families with them. I have benefited from being able to travel to Canada with my husband on a one year stint and had a child there. We are being harder on those who come here than other countries were on us when we needed to emigrate to find work.

Mr. O'Donoghue

I do not accept the latter assertion. I have responded effectively and efficiently to this situation. I have outlined the new procedures in the case of certain categories of worker and how they are entitled to have their spouses and families join them after three months. If individuals were to lose their jobs within the three month period, they would not be in a position to support their wives and families. It would be unfair if they were allowed come to the State with their wives and families and subsequently find themselves in that situation. I have struck the most reasonable balance I can in the circumstances.

Deputy Howlin asked if it is inhumane to ask a person to work in this country without having his or her spouse and family with him or her. I agree that it is difficult for such people. The Deputy must appreciate, however, that certain safeguards must be put in place for the reasons outlined.

Mr. Howlin

Do they not apply in racist ways?

An Ceann Comhairle

We must proceed.

Mr. O'Donoghue

It is not my intention to cause hardship for anyone.

Mr. Shatter

The problem is they only apply to Indians and Pakistanis.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Question No. 9.

Mr. Howlin

If one is from Canada or Australia, there is no difficulty with one's spouse coming here.

Mr. O'Donoghue

Any person from any state is entitled to apply to work here.