Brian O'Shea
Question:11 Mr. O'Shea asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the steps being taken to reduce the cost of keeping a prisoner in Portlaoise Prison which is now in excess of ?177,000 per year. [2907/03]
Other Questions. - Prison Service.
The high cost of keeping a prisoner in Portlaoise Prison arises primarily because of the security nature of that prison. Security considerations there require a higher staff to prisoner ratio. The cost is of the order of €177,000 per year per prisoner, based on 2001 figures. The 2002 figures will not be available until the completion of the 2002 Appropriation Accounts.
The average costs for Portlaoise Prison also reflect the general cost burden created through the older structures in some of our prison facilities. It is proposed, when finances permit, to modernise this facility under the prison service build ing programme and this development will include the use of new technologies, a building management system and other developments in operational security to decrease the amount of staff necessary to operate the prison.
The Prison Service is committed to addressing the issue of costs across all prisons, particularly in relation to the question of overtime. On that question, the Minister for Finance is currently considering proposals from me for a negotiation with the relevant interests in the Prison Service for a new approach to the question of prison officers' overtime.
This new approach to overtime in the prison system was taken on a number of occasions and nothing happened. That is one element.
The Deputy should watch this space.
I will watch the space, but I hope I do not have to listen because I appear to be listening to the Minister for waffle. If the new approach is anything like the commitment to provide 2,000 extra gardaí, which has just been reneged on, we will certainly watch the space.
The cost of keeping a single prisoner in Portlaoise in 2001 was €177,400, and that figure will have escalated for 2002. The average cost per prisoner throughout the country is €79,000, or at least that was the figure in 2001. That figure of €177,400 is the equivalent of half the total amount the Minister quoted in his reply to Question No. 8 that was spent on youth diversionary programmes in the city of Limerick. A total of €339,000 was the amount spent on that area. The cost of keeping two people in Portlaoise would have provided the entire budget for all the youth diversionary programmes in the city of Limerick. The figure of €177,400 is an extraordinary expenditure for a poor return.
We imprison three times the number of people imprisoned in Wales and England and four times the number incarcerated in Scandinavia. Will the Minister consider introducing the proposals of the reintegration of offenders programme which was presented to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights? That would provide a wide range of alternatives such as non-custodial sentences plus the maximisation of the sentence. The recidivist rate is 70% at present, which means this is a terrible waste of money.
The Deputy seems to forget he is talking about Portlaoise jail and that its prisoners are maximum security prisoners. I agree with the Deputy and I echo his description of the cost of keeping prisoners in jail as exorbitant. I intend doing something about it. However, alternatives to custody are not appropriate in the cases of people currently in Portlaoise, nor are diversion schemes. There is one diversion scheme which would be of huge help regarding most inmates of Portlaoise and that is an end to subversion in the country. If there was an end to subversion the need for a maximum security prison with such high levels of security would be eliminated.
I agree fully with the Deputy that some of our prisons seem to cost enormous amounts of money compared with others, and €177,000 for Portlaoise compares with a general figure of €78,000 across the service. However, particular circumstances in Portlaoise regarding the level of security required and the design of the prison mean that the cost of maintaining prisoners there is higher. The Deputy will remember that there are not just subversive prisoners in Portlaoise, there are also high security organised crime figures housed there and regrettably, alternatives to custody are simply out of the question in that regard.
Will the Minister provide a detailed breakdown of where the figure of €177,000 comes from? Will he give a breakdown of the costs of keeping prisoners in other prisons, which cost an average of €78,000? I know there are salaries and overtime involved but there must be other issues involved also.
The figure of €177,000 for Portlaoise involves putting together all the costs expended by the Irish Prison Service in maintaining the jail and dividing into that sum the average number of prisoners in the institution. That yields €177,000 as a result. Across the Prison Service generally, when one divides the number of inmates into the cost of the institutions the amount is between €75,000 and €80,000. The majority of expenditure has nothing to do with the costs of the buildings themselves but relates to variables such as food, clothing, light, heating and the massive component of prison officers' wages and overtime. If the Deputy wants me to inquire further into the precise calculations regarding Portlaoise, subject to security requirements I will be happy to write her a letter setting them out.
I would appreciate that.
How many prisoners are in Portlaoise on average and what is the overall average cost of the prison?
The staff-prison ratio in Portlaoise is 2.47 officers per prisoner, while in other institutions it is 0.8 officers per prisoner. That would explain the situation. The average cost of keeping an offender is €79,000, not €78,000.
Is there a cost factor for the Army?
The cost factor for the Army is not included in these figures. That would be a matter for the Minister for Defence.