Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 20 May 2004

Vol. 586 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Tanáiste

The Order of Business today shall be, No. 10a. motion re referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann for a Council Framework Decision on the application of the principal of mutual recognition to confiscation orders; No. 20, Equality Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed); No. 4, International Criminal Court Bill 2003 — Second Stage (resumed) and No. 20a, statements on the current situation in Iraq, to be taken not later than 1 p.m. and the order shall not resume thereafter.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that No. 10a. shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on No. 20a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.30 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: the statement by a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case and Members may share time.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10a agreed?

Mr. R. Bruton

I presume the House will be given a report from the joint committee which will guide the Dáil in its decision.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20a agreed?

Mr. Stagg

I thank the Government Whip for removing the guillotine on No. 20. I hope the Opposition will co-operate with the Government in dealing with the Bill arising from the removal of that guillotine. The Government has also given the Opposition some concession on No. 20a, if that is the correct term, in changing the format of the debate. I am disappointed there is no concluding question and answer session, even for ten minutes, to allow the Government answer on its policy on this area.

Mr. Sargent

I agree with Deputy Stagg that a question and answer session on No. 20a is important. I ask the Government to consider a resolution as part of this discussion and statements on Iraq. The use of Shannon Airport is becoming more controversial.

An Ceann Comhairle

The House is discussing the proposal. The content of what the Deputy might say in the debate is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Sargent

We are being dragged into an international controversy which is illegal in every sense——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have an opportunity to speak in the debate.

Mr. Sargent

——in a humanitarian sense.

Mr. Gormley

That is the reason for requiring a resolution.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

In the same vein and even at this late stage I ask the Tánaiste to reconsider the opportunity for a question and answer session to follow the statements of Members. It is important that people have a clear understanding of Government policy and intent regarding this serious matter. It would be very welcome if the Tánaiste responded positively.

The Tánaiste

I thank Deputy Stagg and the Opposition for their support on the Equality Bill and for helping to bring it to a conclusion as quickly as possible. Questions were put yesterday to the Minister for Foreign Affairs on the situation in Iraq. He is not available to come to the House today. Government policy in this regard will be evident in the debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed.

Mr. R. Bruton

Will the Tánaiste inform the House if the Government has considered the implications of the recent judgment in the Chen case? Will there be a need for legislation to be introduced in respect of the 11,000 non-national parents of Irish-born children?

Will the Tánaiste comment on the progress of No. 88 on the list of Bills, the Gaming and Lotteries Bill. Is that the Bill under which the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform intends to banish the clowns from City Hall? Will the Fianna Fáil clowns always be so banished from this House under the same initiative?

An Ceann Comhairle

The contents of the Bill cannot be discussed.

Mr. R. Bruton

I notice the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is not in a position to indicate when it will be done.

Mr. Durkan

Bring in the clowns.

Mr. Gormley

Get rid of the clowns in Government first.

The Tánaiste

In answer to Deputy Bruton's first question, the Government has not had an opportunity to consider the Chen case. It is under consideration at the moment. Legislation will be brought forward post the referendum.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Is the Tánaiste putting up with the clowns beside her for the moment?

Mr. R. Bruton

They are brightly coloured today.

Mr. Timmins

They have come dressed for the occasion.

Ms McManus

A delegation from the SDLP will meet the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform today to put forward a proposal to set up an all-Ireland agency to target the assets of criminal and paramilitary gangs on both sides of the Border. In view of that proposal and the recent court decision which defines the limit of the Criminal Assets Bureau regarding overseas crime, will the Tánaiste recognise the serious failure of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform——

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise, Deputy.

Ms McManus

I beg your pardon, Sir, but it does.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should speak on legislation.

Ms McManus

May I finish my question about legislation?

Mr. Costello

It is very relevant, a Cheann Comhairle.

Ms McManus

It shows the extent of the failure of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, to deal——

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, that does not arise. The House cannot debate matters relating to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the Order of Business.

Ms McManus

——with the issue of crime which is his brief. He seems to be able to do everything else except deal with crime.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste, on legislation.

Ms McManus

The Tánaiste has not heard my question yet. I ask her to bear with me a moment.

The Tánaiste

I was called to reply by the Ceann Comhairle.

Ms McManus

I think the Ceann Comhairle is being hasty.

Mr. Stagg

It is another old trick of his.

Ms McManus

Order for Second Stage of the Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill was before the House in 1999. Second Stage was taken in 2000 and the Bill was referred to the Select Committee on Justice, Equality and Women's Rights, but that committee is still waiting for ministerial amendments to the Bill. In view of the commitment given by the Government Whip following the Flood tribunal interim report, it was stated that a new bureau would be established to deal with the proceeds of corruption——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste, on the legislation.

Ms McManus

——but that has not happened. This Bill has not been processed for years. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is spending his time with capers outside this House——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made her point. I call the Tánaiste to reply to the question on legislation.

Ms McManus

——instead of introducing legislation in the House to deal with paramilitary crimes and crimes committed overseas and over the Border.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume her seat and allow the Tánaiste to answer.

The Tánaiste

In answer to the Deputy's first question about the establishment of an all-island body, the Government, particularly the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, will give the suggestion from the SDLP every consideration.

On the second matter raised by the Deputy, legislation is being drafted to deal with the deficiencies highlighted in the recent Supreme Court case.

Ms McManus

Is there an answer to my question on the Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill?

Mr. Howlin

It has been languishing since 2000.

The Tánaiste

The Minister is drafting legislation in this area.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

It is a long gestation.

Ms McManus

That is not an adequate answer. What has happened to the Bill? It is a very simple question.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy made her point. If the Deputy had not made a Second Stage speech when asking her question, the Minister might have known exactly what she was talking about.

Ms McManus

We have a clown here who is spinning yarns and will not tell the House about legislation for which he is responsible.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made her point.

Mr. Durkan

The Minister is thinking about climbing up telegraph poles again.

Mr. Sargent

An answer is still awaited-——

Ms McManus

I am entitled to an answer.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy McManus to resume her seat.

Ms McManus

I ask for an answer to my question. Will I bring over a red nose for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

The Tánaiste

I understand the Minister is proceeding with new legislation in this area.

Mr. Gormley

What legislation is it? The Government is all over the place.

Ms McManus

That is not an adequate answer.

Mr. Stagg

Is the Bill withdrawn?

Ms McManus

The House is told that new legislation is promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has no responsibility for the answers given in the House.

Ms McManus

What is happening to the Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill? Where has it gone and what is its status?

Mr. Howlin

Is it withdrawn?

The Tánaiste

It is awaiting Committee Stage. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is drafting entirely new legislation.

Ms McManus

Is the Bill withdrawn?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is becoming repetitive.

Mr. Howlin

Is it withdrawn?

The Tánaiste

It may be dealt with by way of amendment to that Bill.

Mr. Howlin

Is it withdrawn or does the Tánaiste not know?

Ms Burton

Is that what the Minister says?

Ms McManus

Bring on the clowns.

Mr. M. Ahern

Deputy Howlin has got his voice back.

Mr. Sargent

I understand it is in order to ask about the date of publication of legislation. The Proceeds of Crime (Amendment) Bill was the subject of the question but a publication date has not been given. Is there an opportunity for the House to be given a publication date for that legislation? I am also interested in that information.

On promised legislation, will the State Airports Bill be published before the local elections? If it is to do with civil airports, will there be some resolution of the status of the military involvement in Shannon Airport before the legislation is published? It is important to clarify the situation.

The Tánaiste

That legislation will be published this session. It is the Government's intention to have the Bill passed this session. As regards Deputy McManus's final question, which was not out of order, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform does not know whether the Bill in question has been withdrawn.

Mr. Boyle

Finally, we have something the Minister does not know.

Mr. Howlin

When will we be told?

Ms McManus

If the Minister returned to his desk, he might gain some knowledge.

A Deputy

Listen to the lady from the big house.

Mr. Timmins

At the launch of the EPA annual report on 13 May, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, stated that the creeping criminality involved in illegal waste disposal must be faced down. It is more than two years since major illegal dumps were discovered in County Wicklow. At the time, one of the site owners submitted——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask a question on legislation.

Mr. Timmins

It is coming.

An Ceann Comhairle

He must come to it immediately as he is giving a bad example.

Mr. Timmins

I do not generally waste the Ceann Comhairle's time and would appreciate a little leniency.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine his remarks to legislation.

Mr. Timmins

At the time, one of the site owners submitted an application to the local authority for €1 million in costs, claiming he had been coerced by a third party. To date, I have discovered that not one ounce of waste has been removed——

An Ceann Comhairle

To what legislation is the Deputy referring?

Mr. Timmins

——and no investigation into the claim has been carried out by the Garda Síochána. This is what we are doing to deal with illegal dumping.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order. I suggest he submits a question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Mr. Timmins

When will the building control Bill, which would give us an opportunity to discuss this issue, come before the House?

The Tánaiste

The building control Bill, which has nothing to do with waste, will be introduced later this year.

Mr. Timmins

The Government is not doing anything about waste.

Ms O’Sullivan

The Ceann Comhairle will be relieved to know that my question does not have a preamble. Will the disability Bill be on the Cabinet agenda next Tuesday?

The Tánaiste

Yes, it has been on the agenda for the past couple of weeks.

Ms O’Sullivan

Will a decision on publication be taken next week?

The Tánaiste

I do not know. I do not want to be disrespectful to the Deputy but I cannot give her a commitment that the Bill will be published next week. It will be published as quickly as possible.

Ms O’Sullivan

The Tánaiste stated in January that it would be published shortly.

The Tánaiste

I am aware of that, but we want to ensure we get it right.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The Minister for Health and Children recently announced he was seeking a Cabinet discussion on the proposed terms of reference on the inquiry into malpractice in gynaecology and obstetrics at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital, Drogheda. Has the matter been addressed at Cabinet and is legislation being prepared to provide wider terms of reference in order that this matter can be addressed substantively?

The Tánaiste

At this stage, legislation is not planned in the area in question.

Mr. Durkan

Since the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has been missing for some days now, and given that his last major act was to spend €62 million of taxpayers' money without anything to show for it except redundant ballot boxes, which he is now trading——

An Ceann Comhairle

To what legislation is the Deputy referring?

Mr. Durkan

We are concerned about the Minister's safety. When it is intended to introduce legislation on health and safety at work? I am concerned to ensure the Minister is safe in future.

The Tánaiste

The Bill in question will go before the Cabinet within weeks and will be published before the summer.

Mr. Durkan

That is good news because we are concerned about the Minister's safety.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

We are more concerned about his sanity.

Mr. Stagg

Mindful of the Tánaiste's public resolve to resign from her position if her right-wing ideological demand for the privatisation of Bus Éireann was not fulfilled, is she aware of a report on Bus Éireann produced by independent consultants and presented to the Minister for Transport which shows that privatising the company would cost an additional €25 million? Will she now withdraw the so-called transport reform Bill?

The Tánaiste

Is the Deputy inferring that we would have to pay somebody to take the company?

Mr. Stagg

I hope the Tánaiste will resign.

The Tánaiste

I did not discuss privatisation. What I am interested in is competition and more services for consumers.

Mr. Stagg

It will cost her an extra €25 million.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Tánaiste to continue without interruption, please.

The Tánaiste

Government proposals in this area will be published soon.

Mr. J. Higgins

Given his responsibility for the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians, will the Tánaiste justify the invitation to President Bush to come to Ireland?

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister.

Mr. J. Higgins

Nos. 86 and 87 relate to criminal justice and international co-operation, which are pertinent to this issue. When will the legislation come before the House and does the Tánaiste consider it necessary to implement it?

The Tánaiste

The heads of the Bill are expected in the middle of the year. The forthcoming summit in Ireland is an EU-US summit.

Mr. J. Higgins

Will the Tánaiste feel comfortable shaking President Bush's hand?

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Deenihan.

Mr. Deenihan

I will give the Tánaiste an opportunity to respond to my fellow Kerryman's question.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy does not have a question, we will move on to No. 10a.

Mr. Deenihan

Before Christmas, the Taoiseach assured me that the health and social care professionals Bill would be published early in the new year having given me a similar assurance during the previous year. The Bill has not yet appeared. Will the Tánaiste assure the House that it will be published before the end of the session?

The Tánaiste

It will be published in this session.

Mr. Costello

In view of the deteriorating situation in the prisons, in which there is gross overcrowding and a revolving door system is being operated again, and given that the Minister has closed down three prisons, is threatening to close down another one, prison officers have taken industrial action and prison medical doctors are on strike, will the prison service Bill come before the House before the system collapses?

The Tánaiste

I understood the Labour Party's policy used to be to close down all prisons. The legislation will be ready in this session.

Mr. Costello

What did the Tánaiste say? For the past five years, legislation has been promised to establish an independent——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste answered the Deputy's question.

The Tánaiste

A Bill will be taken this session. I am not in a position to state when the prison service Bill will come before the House.

Mr. Gormley

Is the Progressive Democrats Party still adamant that the strategic national infrastructure Bill will not include incineration, as the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has indicated?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the content of legislation on the Order of Business.

Mr. Gormley

I want the Tánaiste to be clear about the position of her party.

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Ms Burton

What about Ringsend?

The Tánaiste

The legislation is before the Government.

Mr. Gormley

What is the position of the Progressive Democrats Party on incineration?

The Tánaiste

What is the Green Party's position on the caring coalition? Did the Deputy hear the comments of the Fine Gael Party on the matter last night?

Mr. Gormley

We have a clear position on incineration; we oppose it. What is the Tánaiste's position on it?

Ms Lynch

Yesterday evening, at approximately 5.30 p.m. a delegation of people in wheelchairs stopped traffic on Shandon Street in Cork which has just been redeveloped to the tune of €15 million.

An Ceann Comhairle

To what legislation is the Deputy referring?

Ms Lynch

I refer to the disability Bill. The street has been completely redeveloped, yet people in wheelchairs and with physical disabilities cannot access it.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to find another way to raise the matter.

The Tánaiste

I have already answered a question on the disability Bill. The matter to which the Deputy refers should be raised with Cork City Council, with which, I understand, she was involved.

Ms Lynch

I wish to respond to that remark.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste has answered the question.

Ms Lynch

As regards my involvement on Cork City Council——

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask the Deputy to resume her seat.

Ms Lynch

As an elected Member of the House, I do not accept the slipshod, smart remarks of the Tánaiste.

Mr. M. Smith

She can give it but she will not take it.

Ms Lynch

The Minister should blow his horn.

Mr. Durkan

There should be no hooting from the Government benches.

Mr. R. Bruton

There are reports on an almost daily basis that financial institutions are not complying with their legal obligations. Yesterday the Minister for Finance stated outside the House that the Central Bank financial regulatory Bill would be delayed because of Dáil procedures. There has been no delay in the House and Report Stage was taken yesterday. The delay has resulted from the incompetence of the Government to bring forward amendments in a timely fashion, which adequately deal with the problems. I would like an assurance from the Tánaiste that the legislation will not be delayed, as the Minister for Finance has been reported as saying in today's newspapers, and that he will act on this, as he has insisted he will in the House.

The Tánaiste

The legislation is a priority for the Government and we hope to get it through as quickly as possible. With the co-operation of the Opposition, we can achieve our objective.

Mr. R. Bruton

The Tánaiste should convey that to the Minister who is blaming the Dáil for his own tardiness.

Mr. McCormack

Will the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government introduce legislation following his statement on rural housing or is that only an election gimmick to get over 11 June?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

Mr. Durkan

Yes.

The Tánaiste

No, there are regulations.

Mr. Durkan

When will they be introduced?

Mr. M. Smith

They are being implemented. The Deputy should keep in touch with his local authority.

Mr. McCormack

The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government promised legislation.

Mr. Durkan

When will it be published?

Mr. M. Smith

Within days.

The Tánaiste

No legislation is promised.

Mr. McCormack

The Minister promised legislation, but he did not mean it as usual, just like electronic voting.

An Ceann Comhairle

On secondary legislation, it is in order under Standing Order 26 for the Tánaiste to delay a reply until another day on regulations.

Mr. Durkan

She does not know. Does anybody know?