Jack Wall
Question:1 Mr. Wall asked the Taoiseach the amount spent by tourists here in 2003 and to date in 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25424/04]
Ceisteanna — Questions.
Tourism Industry.
Jack Wall
Question:2 Mr. Wall asked the Taoiseach the number of tourists who visited Ireland to date in 2004; the way in which this compares with the same periods in 2003 and 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25426/04]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
The latest statistics from the CSO relate to the period 1 January to 30 September 2004. There were 5,147,0000 overseas visitors to Ireland in the first nine months of the year with an estimated expenditure of €2,555 million. This compares to 5,009,000 overseas visitors in the first nine months of 2003 with an estimated expenditure of €2,542 million.
There were 4,779,000 overseas visitors in the same period of 2002 with an estimated expenditure of €2,439 million. It is estimated that there were just under 6.4 million overseas visits to Ireland by non-residents in 2003 with an expenditure of €3,198 million.
I tabled these questions to the Taoiseach for oral answer having tabled them on a number of occasions to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. When we have a debate on almost a monthly basis with the Minister we hear those figures are not available to the Department. The availability of such figures is an essential aspect of the debate on tourism. I cannot understand why we have to table a question for written answer or a question to the Minister for oral answer to get answers to questions that are paramount to the debate on tourism. Is it feasible that the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism would have available the answers to these types of questions so that we would not have to table questions to the Taoiseach on an ongoing basis to create debate on tourism in another Department?
I agree with the Deputy that figures are crucial in planning in tourism. I will raise this matter with the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. Some of the figures show where we need to do more work. One statistic shows that while the number of tourists from the UK has improved, the figures from 2002 to 2004 show a slight decrease of 0.6% in the current quarter which we have just completed. As a result of the findings of those figures the Department is conducting a major marketing campaign to promote tourism, in particular in the UK and further afield. I agree with the Deputy's point and will convey his views to the Minister. However, in terms of overall figures, overseas visitor numbers have increased by 25% from 5 million to 6.2 million since 1997. The Minister was given an increase of 8% in the recent Estimates. Therefore, the Government is conscious of the need to invest more money in marketing.
Following on from Deputy Wall's question, does the Minister of State understand that these figures are plucked out of the air for the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism? He believes that rip-off Ireland is a myth. What is the extent of money allocated to promotion of Ireland in America where Fáilte Ireland——
That question does not arise out of these questions which are purely statistical and deal with the Taoiseach's Department and the Central Statistics Office. The question the Deputy is asking is more appropriate to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism.
Do we know the numbers of American visitors who are contacted directly through databases by Fáilte Ireland? Given the state of the American economy, there will probably not be any change in value of the dollar for the next two years, and we are facing the possibility of incurring serious losses there.
Is the Minister of State aware of reports that have been published for a number of years saying that up to 5 million extra visitors from Britain would visit here if circumstances were right? What elements of visitors from Britain were Irish returning here on holidays, for weekends or to visit family members? Does he know the element of the British visitors who are English and visit here on holiday as distinct from Irish persons returning here for weekends or for other reasons? Where is the emphasis in Government of promoting Ireland in Europe? Is the emphasis on Italy, Germany, France or Spain?
The Deputy's last question would be more appropriately addressed to the Minster for Arts, Sport and Tourism.
I will rephrase it. Can the Minister of State give a breakdown of the number of visitors who came here from Italy, France, Germany and Spain?
I will be as helpful as I can and I am conscious we are dealing with statistics. I will ask the Minister to give the Deputy precise marketing figures in terms of moneys being invested in tourism promotion in the US and Canada. I can give the Deputy figures for the number of overseas figures from USA and Canada and this relates to the questions tabled. The figures are 675,000 for January to September 2002, 719,000 for January to September 2003 and 781,000 for January to September 2004. Those figures are encouraging in that they show an increase of 15.7% from 2002 to 2004 and an increase of 8.6% from 2003 to 2004.
Regarding the Deputy's second question concerning the UK, Tourism Ireland has been mandated by the Minister to focus on and promote tourism in the UK. The Minister is conscious of the need to do more there and the increase in the Estimates will allow him to do that. In compiling these figures, when the staff of the CSO interview people they specifically cover the Irish person travelling to Manchester United or to London or Brussels on business. Those people are recorded in the statistics as Irish people going abroad for business. They are not seen on their return as a tourist. That was the point the Deputy raised.
With regard to Europe, it is described in the figures as "other Europe". That means the European Union and beyond, the Europe of 25 members states plus the greater Europe, so to speak. Under the remit of the questions tabled, the figures for Europe show an increase of 12.9% from 2002 to 2004 and an increase of 4.4% from 2003 to 2004. Those figures are encouraging. I stated to Deputy Wall that there is an issue regarding the UK, but it only arose in the last quarter. The Minister is aware of it and we will be focusing on it.
Of the number of American visitors who come here, does the Minister of State, and I realise he is not the Minister with responsibility for tourism, have the number of those visitors who came here via London? Are such visitors counted as visitors from England or visitors from America? What is the percentage of the number of American visitors who travel here by way of direct flight to London and who then take a further flight here?
I understand the figures are compiled by carrying out surveys at the airports and ports and collecting data from airlines, travel agencies etc. Percentages are derived based on the overall figures. I understand that CSO staff would have figures from travel agencies and airlines which would show the precise fact pointed out by the Deputy, namely, that visitors travel here via Heathrow in London. I will confirm that to the Deputy if my answer is inaccurate.
Deputy Wall raised the issue of greater access to statistics which I hope the Minister of State will take into consideration. Are there plans to provide a more detailed breakdown of visitor figures such as the number of people who visit Ireland to walk here? Fáilte Ireland figures show that the number of walkers have decreased during the past 12 years. If we were able to better identify such categories in the figures, we might be able to tackle the rot that is beginning to set into our tourism industry.
A breakdown of the reasons for journey is given in the figures. One category is holiday, leisure and recreation. On the basis of the questions tabled requesting comparative figures for 2002, 2003 and 2004, the figures are encouraging. The figures for 2002 to 2004 show an increase of 6.6%——
I asked specifically about walkers.
——and an increase of 3.6% in 2004. Another category is visits to friends or relatives. Business is another category, the figures for which show an increase of 9.4% for the period from 2003 to 2004. I presume such visits would be related to business-——
I asked specifically about walking.
——conferences etc. Walking would come under the category of leisure activities and recreation. If there is a further breakdown in this regard I would be glad to inform the Deputy of it. When CSO staff ask people questions at the ports and airports they probably ask general questions with regard to why they are here, whether on holidays or business. I will put the Deputy's suggestion to them.
The Minister of State partly answered the question I intended to ask. I wish to ask about the sizes of the samples surveyed. How often, when and where are they sampled? The Minister of State mentioned interviews. Are other methods also used to determine the reliability of the figures?
The data are based on the tourism and travel quarterly survey. This is done every three months and the first period is January to March, inclusive. The surveys are carried out at ports and airports. Other data are derived from the household travel survey, which is done through the post. Overall, the data are collated on a quarterly basis and are collected at ports and airports.
The household travel survey shows an increase of 10% in the number of domestic holidays in Ireland. There is also an increase in the number of people going abroad. In July to September 2004, 1.75 million people went abroad. This was an increase of 9.8% on last year. The household travel survey is also used, showing an increase in domestic holidays and in the number people going abroad.
Can the Minister of State comment on the statistics recently published by Tourism Ireland which show that passengers from the United States spend more time in Ireland if they access the country through Shannon than if they access it through Dublin? This is particularly true of the number of bed nights and benefits to the region as a whole. The figures also show that 73% of passengers who come through Shannon Airport hire cars in Shannon, compared with 30% in Dublin. These figures should be borne in mind in the negotiations on the bilateral agreement.
Deputy Breen is keeping his eye on the bigger picture. Access to Shannon is a major issue for the Ministers for Arts, Sport and Tourism and Transport and for the Government in general. I will be glad to convey Deputy Breen's views to the relevant Ministers. Growing business in Shannon and attracting more tourists from the United States, whether they come directly to Dublin or, as Deputy Kenny said, throughLondon, are major issues for the Government. We must attract more people here. I agree that it is important to expand the use of Shannon. This is an important issue for the area.
The Minister of State is on side in that case.
My question relates to the same issue as Deputy Breen's. Does the Minister of State have information regarding whether American tourists choose to go to particular regions of Ireland on the basis of whether or not there is an accessible flight? I understand discussions are opening on the bilateral agreement between the United States and Ireland on the transatlantic routes. Will statistics on the relevance of accessible flights be used in the forthcoming discussions in determining regional tourism balance?
I do not have figures on that issue. Such data do not emerge from the tourism and travel quarterly survey or the household survey. Such data would be relevant to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and I will raise the question with him. I will check and revert to Deputy O'Sullivan. Her question relates to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. It would be useful for him to have such data in planning for Shannon. Some of the issues Deputy O'Sullivan raised are the responsibility of the Minister for Transport and I will convey her questions to him. My remit is the CSO figures for 2002, 2003 and 2004. I will share any data I can with the Deputy and I will convey her views to the two relevant Ministers.
Do the data available to the Minister of State contain information as to whether tourists choose to go to particular parts of the country on the basis of access?
The surveys show the reasons for travelling, under the headings I mentioned to Deputy Gogarty. They do not deal with specific locations.
As we have a single international promotional agency for tourism on the island of Ireland, are the statistics the Minister of State quoted from the CSO representative of the island of Ireland figures or only of ports of entry in this jurisdiction? Would the Minister of State agree that there might be a distortion of the figures for visitors to Ireland from Britain? He has indicated a possible decrease in those numbers. Would he not agree that many may access this country through the Belfast airports or the port of Larne and go on to enjoy visits to various locations throughout the country? I ask that he address the question of whether or not there is a distortion. There is a need for a reflective set of statistics for the whole island of Ireland in line with the work of our promotional agency, Tourism Ireland.
The figures I have quoted relate to our own jurisdiction. The Deputy's point is a valid one. Tourism Ireland is developing tourism for the island of Ireland. In the context of the peace agreement, the resumption of the North South Ministerial Council and co-operation between the various Ministers, North and South, it is important that we extend co-operation and share data. Access to Belfast is clearly important for the overall tourism of the island of Ireland. The question is a valid one and should be pursued in the context of the restoration of the institutions in Northern Ireland and of the Assembly itself.
Has there been socio-economic profiling of visitors to Ireland from the various countries along lines such as age, gender and income so that the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism could better target his marketing resources?
The answer is, no. I revert to what I said earlier about the categories covered by the "reason for journey" heading. Deputies are making good suggestions and I will be glad to pass them on to the CSO. How far can one go in questioning people at ports and airports? How far should one go without impinging on people's privacy? I will convey the Deputy's views.
The Minister of State wonders how far one can go in asking American tourists in Shannon where they are going. Are American troops stopping off in Shannon and visiting the shops, as well as transit passengers generally, counted in those figures?
They are balanced by the ones Deputy McDowell is shipping the other way.
Are transit passengers, such as American troops, included in those figures?
They are not.
Are they asked how far they can go?
They are not asked what weapons they are carrying either.
Would the figures warrant any action or reaction by the Minister? Was any reaction detected in the Minister——
Not for years.
——when he studied the figures? Did he propose any action, does the Minister of State think he should propose such action or did the Minister——
Deputy, this is purely a statistical question.
Arising from the statistics, the Minister would be expected to react in a particular fashion. Did he express horror or joy, did he ring Deputy Healy-Rae or did he simply shrug?
The vital statistics on tourism are excellent.
So, he applauded.
The Minister and his predecessors have managed to double the tourism budget from €47 million in 1997 to €123 million in the recent Estimate. The budget for front line marketing has gone from €12 million in 1997 to €35.8 million. The increase of 8% in the recent Estimate shows that the Minister and the Government recognise the importance of tourism. That record is one of which the Minister can be proud.
So he was overjoyed.
The two questions have raised considerable interest. I have not heard questions producing such reaction for a long time. Through the good offices of the Minister of State and of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, I hope the problems of tourism can be addressed. I hope the figures will be made available to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism so that they can be debated by the spokespersons in the House. Like many others, I will have an interest in such a debate.
The Minister of State is truncated.
As the Minister of State said, figures are only as relevant as they are useful. The categories into which figures are placed could be more useful if, for example, they were broken down not just in terms of activity but also for the number of tourists who get lost in this country due to poor signposting which is a frequent cause of complaint. The cost of signposting which B& Bs are complaining about because the rate base means they cannot afford to erect signs, is giving rise to a cohort of dissatisfied tourists, which comes to the point of returns.
The Deputy is going well outside the remit of these questions.
We must establish the importance of return business. Major businesses place a huge emphasis on such return tourism business and the Government should do so also. Can the Minister of State indicate how many of the tourism figures relate to return business, or is there any plan to monitor the level of return business? Is it a case of saying "good riddance" when tourists leave the country and do not wish to return because of high costs?
My understanding is that will emerge in the data and I will double check it for the Deputy. As regards signposting, I will convey the Deputy's remarks to the relevant Minister. Is the Deputy suggesting that we should ask people at airports when they are leaving if they got lost while they were here?
When they are leaving, they should be asked if they were lost.
Where does one find them?
Seriously, I will convey the Deputy's views on signposting to the relevant Minister.
The relevant Minister will be busy.
Does the Minister of State have figures to hand, including percentages, concerning people who travel here by air or sea?
Surveys are carried out at airports and ports so we have that type of data. The figures will increase with marketing based on gaps emerging in the market place.
Did the Minister of State say the spend in 1997 was approximately €12 million and is now €35 million?
Yes, €35.8 million.
Yet the increase in tourism is 8%.
Overseas visitors are up 25%.
So for a 300% increase in spend, what is the ratio of productivity? Is it the same as in the health service?
It is one euro per tourist.
The figure of €35.8 million is for 2005.
They did not spend it yet.
We did not spend it yet.
That is the Estimate.
What is the ratio? Is it consistent with other Government spending where productivity means nothing?
Yes.
According to the figures I have, overseas visitor numbers are up 25% since 1997, from 5 million to 6.2 million. The budget has gone from €47 million to €123 million for 2005. The front line marketing budget has gone from €12 million to €35.8 million. With regard to overall productivity and the impact on the economy, tourism affects so many people with regard to employment in so many sectors. I am simply quoting figures I got from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism.
It explains how incompetent the Government is.
Correct. The Minister of State just shrugged his shoulders.
We know that visitor numbers are up but there is a perception in the west, and Mayo in particular, that numbers are down and the season is very short. Can the Minister of State confirm that numbers are down in the west? As regards access, given that some 20 million people come in through Dublin and Cork airports as against a projected 400,000 through Knock Airport, does the Minister of State think it would be much better to invest the €40 million in Knock Airport, which is necessary?
The only figure I can confirm and which would probably impact on the west, was the slight decrease in figures for the last quarter from the United Kingdom. It is not my responsibility, but my colleague, the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue, will try to do something about that. The figures I have are formed on a national basis. If there is any additional information following the queries that have been put to me today, I will be glad to share it with Deputies.
The €40 million for Knock Airport would be very handy.
The Government wanted to dissuade or prevent pregnant women from coming here to have their babies. Since the Government believed there were significant numbers of such women, we had a constitutional referendum which altered our citizenship laws.
The Deputy should ask a question that is appropriate to the Minister of State.
On tourism.
This question is about visitors travelling here. Perhaps the Minister of State could confirm if these people are included in the tourism figures. Has the change in our constitutional position on citizenship that the Government has proposed made a difference and reduced the number of women coming here to have babies?
That is obviously a question for the line Minister. The answer to the Deputy's question is that this obviously deals with tourism. There is a particular definition of tourism which we can pass on to the Deputy.
Where is the line Minister nowadays?
The line Minister does not have the answer.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, said they were pregnancy tourists.
Is he a tourist himself?
I understand that a question is asked of people visiting here. These people are tourists in that they are visiting the country.
If this is purely a statistical question on tourism numbers the Minister of State may answer it.
We are trying to get the numbers.
I am asking a statistical question. I understand that the CSO figures are based on various questions, including the reasons people visit here. The Government was very clear about the reasons these women had been visiting here.
You have made that point.
May I ask for a statistical response so that we can have the evidence for the argument the Government made to the people? That is all I am asking. I want the figures.
There is a Bill being debated in the House later on this very issue and the Deputy can raise the matter then.
So the Minister of State does not have the figures.
There is a decline.
Well done, Tánaiste.
I call Deputy Boyle, followed by Deputy Burton.
The Minister of State should check the CSO figures. Perhaps the Minister of State can pass them on to the Minister who does not have them. He told us that on Committee Stage.
There is a decline. I will obtain the figures for the Deputy.
I am sorry, Deputy Costello, but I have called Deputy Boyle so perhaps you would allow him to submit his question.
Are statistics being gathered as regards tourists who access the island through the Belfast city airports and through Larne ferryport? Is the Central Statistics Office engaged in surveying visitors who are touring the whole island, having accessed the country at those particular points?
As I said in an earlier response, that is a matter for North-South co-operation, which should pertain with regard to the restoration of the Northern Ireland Executive and the sort of North-South ministerial co-operation we had in the past.
So we do not know, basically.
No. Clearly, these figures are based on our own jurisdiction. In the context of tourism information being shared on a North-South basis, that will be part of the agenda moving forward.
When CSO officials are interviewing people at airports and sea ports do they ask visitors about their experiences with regard to prices, signposting and other issues? If so, does the Minister of State have any statistics on the responses? If not, will he supply them to us by separate cover?
I am repeating myself. The facts and figures I have pertain to the reasons for travelling, including holidays, business, etc. I have no further details here.
Are they asked about those issues?
I presume that many other surveys are undertaken on those issues. It would be necessary to do so. I will revert back to the Deputy on that matter.
I thank the Minister of State.
The Minister of State's predecessor was kind enough to give me statistics on the number of Irish people who are married to non-nationals, particularly from countries outside the EU. As a result of the interviews that are carried out, does the Minister of State have statistics on the number of people coming here for family visits, by visa, from areas such as the Indian sub-continent, Africa and the Far East? How many people are being allowed to visit Irish families or their families of origin now living in Ireland? I am sure it will be a surprise to the Minister of State that most Deputies are besieged by people who are living in this country because, even when grandchildren are born here, no allowance is made for their grandparents to visit them.
That does not arise out of this question, which is purely on the statistics.
Some months ago the Minister of State's predecessor was kind enough to give me the earlier statistics for last year. Could the Minister of State comment on the matter?
I would be happy to follow up on any information the Deputy wants. I come back to the point the Deputy and others made about the kinds of people surveyed. In this survey we are talking about overnight visitors. The Household Travel Survey by the Central Statistics Office defines an overnight visitor as follows:
An overnight visitor is a visitor who stays at least one night in collective or private accommodation in the place, county or country visited . . . Consequently the following are excluded:
Short-distance local transport and commuting i.e. more or less regular trips between place of work/study and place of residence.
Routine or regular visits e.g. visiting parents every weekend.
For visits of more than 12 consecutive months, a traveller will be considered a resident of that place (from a statistical standpoint).
Migratory movements for work purposes.
It goes on to outline those excluded from domestic travel. I would be very happy to follow what was done by my predecessor, Deputy Hanafin, in supplying any information the Deputy requires.
While this is no reflection on the Minister of State, from the point of view of satisfaction, I ask the Ceann Comhairle whether the line Minister could come to the House to answer the statistical questions and the related questions, which the Minister of State is now attempting to answer second-hand.
As this is purely a statistical question, that matter does not arise.
As Deputy Wall has said, it is important for the line Minister to answer the statistical question and the related detailed questions.
The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, could answer.
I would be delighted to answer, if I could.
I was referring to the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy O'Donoghue.
On the Committee Stage of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill last week, I asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to supply the figures for the numbers of tourists, as described by him during the referendum campaign and since, who had come to Ireland specifically for the purpose of having an Irish-born child and to get Irish citizenship. He stated that he had no such figures. I ask the Minister of State whether any such figures in the survey would have been of use to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. We are about to take Report Stage of the same legislation and the Minister will have made this statement on numerous occasions in public as justification for his referendum and his new legislation, for which no scientific basis seems to exist. Does the CSO survey contain any such figures?
I do not believe, and if I am wrong I will come back to the Deputy——
I do not believe him either.
——that any of these figures would be of help to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as they are very much tourist related. The question tabled by Deputy Wall related to tourism and I have done my best to answer it. I have already given details of some categories of people who are excluded. The report also states:
The following are excluded from International travel:
Persons leaving the country as migrants, including dependants accompanying or joining them.
It refers to people leaving and coming in. The kind of information the Deputy seeks is not contained.
In that case the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform would have had no formal scientific basis for his statement.
While I am not trying to do the Ceann Comhairle's job, I presume these are questions the Deputy can put to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to ascertain the kinds of data he has.
The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform does not need a scientific basis for anything he says.