Vol. 639 No. 2
89 Deputy Phil Hogan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the reason he made the decision to use his powers under the National Monuments Acts to make a temporary preservation order for the Rath Lugh promontory fort near Tara; if there are implications for the construction of the M3; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23019/07]
Under the provisions of section 4 of the National Monuments (Amendment) Act 1954, a temporary preservation order may be placed on a national monument that appears to me to be in immediate danger of injury or destruction. Such orders are invoked as an interim protective measure to deal with immediate threats to monuments and have a finite duration of six months. Upon their expiration, such orders may be renewed or alternative measures to protect the monument in the longer term may be put in place.
On the basis of the advice available to me, I was satisfied there was a risk of damage to the national monument known as Rath Lugh, a hill-top enclosure in the townland of Lismullin, County Meath. Given its archaeological importance, I placed a temporary preservation order on it on 28 September 2007. Prior notification of my intention in this regard was sent to the registered owner of the lands on which the monument is located, Coillte Teoranta. My Department will engage with Coillte in the coming weeks to consider how the monument can best be protected in the longer term.
The site of the monument is delineated and defined on a map annexed to the order and is adjacent to, but outside, the lands on which the M3 motorway is to be constructed.
In the exercise of my statutory functions in the protection of national monuments, I am concerned to ensure that the construction of the motorway does not damage the monument itself. I am also anxious to ensure that construction works do not destabilise the esker or ridge on which the monument is located and thus have the effect of causing damage to the monument. With this in mind, it is my intention to continue to monitor conditions in the vicinity of the site of the monument at Rath Lugh to ensure that no damage occurs thereto. I have also asked my Department to commission a report from an independent company of geotechnical consultants on the stability of the esker and I await their report on this aspect of the matter.
I congratulate the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, and his Ministers of State, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe and Deputy Tony Killeen, on their appointment and wish them well in their roles. This is the first chance I have had to do so.
I asked the Minister whether the temporary preservation order he issued on 28 September would have any implications for the construction of the M3 motorway. What is the position of the Minister and Green Party on the construction of the motorway in view of all the statements they made about it before the election last May? Members of the Green Party, particularly Deputy Ciarán Cuffe, called for the construction of the motorway to be stopped. Is the Minister in favour of the new motorway programme and has he further concerns over Rath Lugh that will further delay the project?
I thank Deputy Phil Hogan for his good wishes and wish him well in his new portfolio. I also wish well the Labour Party spokespersons, Deputies Joanna Tuffy and Ciarán Lynch.
My primary function as Minister responsible for heritage is to protect our archaeological heritage and this is what I intend to do. On taking office, I said I would not only conduct an archaeological review but also err on the side of caution regarding archaeological heritage. I appointed an expert on Tara, Professor Conor Newman, with whom Deputy Phil Hogan might be familiar. Deputy Shane McEntee certainly knows him because they have spoken on many occasions. Deputy McEntee knows Professor Newman has an exemplary record in respect of heritage in the area and the latter has spoken very highly of the Deputy.
He was well trained in Nobber.
He probably was. He was part of the Discovery Programme for quite a long time and it was he who came to me to offer advice regarding Rath Lugh.
Rath Lugh is on a quite large esker. Professor Newman's immediate concern was that the construction works could undermine the esker despite its being outside the road take. He also discovered that the national monument was probably closer to the road than had been anticipated. I took this into account. I was told by the Department that some of the growth on the esker itself could undermine the national monument and this is why I acted on the matter.
The Deputy knows quite well that the decision on the M3 was taken in 2003. My party was opposed to the motorway and this is a matter of historical record. Some of my closest advisers attended the hearing. Deputy Hogan knows well that I cannot, at this stage, do anything about the decision but I can do everything I can as Minister responsible for heritage, which title I take very seriously, to protect our archaeological heritage. I listened very carefully to what Professor Conor Newman said about Lismullin and to the statements of the director of the National Museum of Ireland, Dr. Pat Wallace. These two individuals were opposed to the siting of the road and share my concern over archaeological heritage. That is why I am delighted they are on board and advising me.
We are all in favour of protecting the heritage of the land and ensuring the existence of appropriate infrastructure to allow commuters to go to and from their places of work and recreation. Were the issues to which the Minister refers, including that of Rath Lugh, not flagged by the national monuments section of his Department while the route appraisal was being undertaken a long time ago? Who marked out the site to allow the M3 to be constructed? Who will take responsibility for the fact that the Minister must issue a temporary preservation order at the eleventh hour?
I appreciate that the Deputy's party is in favour of construction of the M3 motorway. It was a central plank of the Deputy McEntee's by-election campaign. The construction of a motorway is a matter for the National Roads Authority in the first instance. The authority has said that, as far as it is concerned, there is no potential for damage to the national monument, but I, as Minister responsible for heritage, must act in the best interest of our archaeological heritage. I said I would err on the side of caution and that is why I adopted the approach in question, with which most people interested in archaeology would agree. This is what people have said to me and why I acted the way I did.
In view of the significant archaeological assessment of the route in advance of any contract being signed or National Roads Authority involvement, who marked out the site to give the Minister and the authority the wherewithal to proceed?
The matter is dealt with by my Department. It has the best qualified staff and they are doing an excellent job. I decided to add to this by——
They marked it incorrectly.
Not at all. They are doing excellent work. This is not just a matter of archaeology as it relates to the esker itself.
90 Deputy Joanna Tuffy asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if, in view of the continued threat to the health of families from radon gas and the expert medical view that this gas causes many deaths each year, he has plans for the introduction of a grants scheme that would assist householders to take remedial steps to safeguard their homes and install detectors that would warn when high levels of gas are present; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22898/07]
There are no plans to create a scheme of grant assistance for remediation of homes with radon levels that exceed the national reference level adopted by the Government in respect of houses. The Government's approach, which is similar to that of the majority of EU member states, is that our efforts are better concentrated on increasing public awareness of the risks posed by radon in the home.
The testing of houses for radon is a relatively straightforward and non-invasive process. It is also inexpensive, costing approximately €50. It would be difficult for a demand-led scheme of domestic radon grants to ensure appropriate and cost-effective targeting of remedial action. Furthermore, such a scheme could require significant public expenditure and administrative resources.
The Government, largely through the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland, has for many years committed significant resources to assessing the extent of the radon problem throughout the country and increasing public awareness of radon and the health risks associated with prolonged exposure to high radon concentrations. Householders, particularly those in high radon areas identified by the institute in its nationwide survey, have been strongly encouraged to have their homes tested for radon and to undertake remediation works where necessary. There will continue to be a focus on enabling and encouraging householders to address monitoring and remedial requirements effectively and economically. Details of the survey can be found on the institute's website. The building regulations introduced by the Department in 1998 and updated in 2004 require all new buildings, including new houses, to incorporate radon protection measures at the time of construction. Technical guidance on radon remediation techniques is available in a booklet issued by the Department, Radon in Buildings — Corrective Options, which is available on the Department's website. The Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland has issued a guidance document, Understanding Radon Remediation — A Householder's Guide, which is available on the institute's website, as is a list of companies that can provide a radon remediation service and offer specific advice and recommendations.
It is interesting the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, is now responsible for answering questions about radon. This time last year, the former Minister, Deputy Roche, would have responded to a question about the matter. When the Green Party was in opposition, it joined the Labour Party in calling for the introduction of radon remediation grants. The answer that has just been given by the Minister of State is almost exactly the same as the response given by the former Minister, Deputy Roche, in June 2006. Given that it has had a policy of introducing a radon remediation grant scheme similar to that introduced by Deputy Stagg of the Labour Party some years ago, has the Green Party engaged in any negotiations about this issue with Fianna Fáil? Deputy Cuffe of the Green Party said a couple of years ago that "there is a moral imperative on the Government to assist those living in homes with high levels of radon". He called for the reintroduction of radon remediation grants. What is the current position? Will the Government reintroduce the grant scheme I have mentioned?
There have been a number of studies on this matter. A study that was conducted in a number of European countries pointed out, inter alia, that people who smoke or used to smoke are susceptible to increased levels of danger from radon. As I said earlier, this phenomenon was partially addressed in the 1998 building regulations. A cost-benefit analysis of the introduction of a grant scheme, which was conducted by the Danish Government a number of years ago, suggested that introducing such a scheme would by no means be the most effective means of dealing with this difficulty. The Government has targeted its investment at ensuring people know about the dangers and can access a scheme of testing to enable them to establish whether they have radon problems in their houses. Remediation measures are relatively inexpensive in many instances.
I would like to hear the views of the Minister, Deputy Gormley, on this issue. Given that his party has consistently called for the reintroduction of the radon remediation grant scheme, I would like to know if that remains his position now that he is Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Minister of State mentioned that smokers are at risk, but radon does not affect smokers only. I accept that smokers have a higher risk of contracting lung cancer if they live in a high radon area. According to statistics from the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland and the National Cancer Registry, radon causes up to 200 deaths from lung cancer in this country every year. There is a real health risk associated with radon. To put it in context, approximately 70 people die from cancer of the cervix and approximately 800 people are killed on the roads each year. The Minister of State referred to a Danish study, but that is not a very good example because Denmark has a far smaller radon risk than Ireland. Seven European countries have radon remediation grant schemes and the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland has said that such a scheme would be very effective in Ireland. Is the Minister of State aware that a study conducted by the institute found that radon remediation measures were taken in just 10% of houses in which high radon levels had been identified? The institute has argued that the main reason for the low take-up is that such facilities are too costly for householders.
The Government has decided to delegate this function to me, as well as some other functions.
That is convenient.
I am aware of some of the points made by Deputy Tuffy. We need to decide which scheme will produce the best results as we try to address these difficulties. It is accepted that it is hugely important that we ensure people are aware of the risk of radon in the first instance. We should tell them not only that a radon test can be conducted relatively inexpensively, but also that advice about remediation measures is available. There is no consensus that radon remediation grant schemes have been successful in addressing the worst cases in those countries where they have been introduced. Most of the evidence suggests that the opposite has been the case.
91 Deputy Phil Hogan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government his view of the decision by the Dutch Government to abandon the use of electronic voting machines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23020/07]
An official report has recently been published in the Netherlands about the Nedap electronic voting system which is in operation there. An official English translation of the report is not yet available. The House will appreciate that I do not propose to comment until I have received the report and had an opportunity to consider it. I understand the committee which prepared the report was established after last year's Dutch elections and that the Dutch Parliament will discuss the report in early December. I am aware of reports of a recent court judgment in the Netherlands to the effect that electronic voting machines should not be used in a mayoral election in Utrecht. I understand this decision was made on the basis of non-compliance with the legal certification procedures governing the use of the system in the Netherlands. The case was initiated before the committee's report was published and the events are unrelated. The House will recall that the final report of the Commission on Electronic Voting last year concluded that the voting equipment chosen for use in Ireland could be used subject to further work which was also recommended, such as the replacement of the election management software, the adaptation of the equipment and the undertaking of further end-to-end testing. As I have indicated to the House, I am considering the next steps to be taken in the electronic voting and counting project. I will take into account the commission's report, any relevant findings from the Netherlands, the need to maintain public confidence in the electoral process and the provisions in the programme for Government relating to electoral reform generally.
I am surprised the Dutch report on the ineffectiveness of the electronic voting machines and the real need to scrap them has not been translated into English by the Minister's colleagues in the Green Party in the Netherlands or the translators in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Is the Minister in favour of the electronic voting machines which were given a trial run in some constituencies a number of years ago and have been criticised by the Green Party over recent years? The Minister's party suggested his predecessor as Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, should resign if he continued to advocate the use of the machines. The State has spent €60 million on electronic voting machines, including their storage. It cannot even get the storage capacity right at Gormanston Aerodrome. Will the Minister tell the House what he intends to do with the electronic voting machines, rather than hiding behind another Commission on Electronic Voting report?
I have no intention of hiding behind any report. I said when I was in Opposition that I was in favour of electronic voting, in principle. I do not know Fine Gael's stance, in principle, on electronic voting. We need to ascertain whether electronic voting is effective and whether we can gain public confidence in it. I hope the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government can examine those matters, just as the Commission on Electronic Voting considered a number of issues in its report. While the possibility of providing for a voter verifiable audit trail was outside the thrust of the commission's report, most of the submissions which were received related to it so it was addressed in some detail. We have to examine whether we can give the public confidence in electronic voting, which is a matter that is being examined by the Department. We have spent approximately €51.3 million on these machines. That is a lot of money and I am not inclined to throw it away. I would like to see electronic voting working and to see if we can modify those machines. It would appear from the CEV report that they can be modified, but to what extent? A crucial question for me is whether we can get added value.
I think the Minister is trying to advocate something similar to what the Fianna Fáil Ministers did in the past — recycling the machines. The Minister knows that the Irish and Dutch jurisdictions are saying that this particular type of machine will not provide confidence in our democratic system. It will not ensure that the Irish people can vote and be confident that their intention may be verified. In the light of the Irish and Dutch experiences and the commission report at his disposal, there is no need for further evidence or reports. Will the Minister give an undertaking to the House that he will scrap these machines and start the process on electronic voting again?
I need further evidence. I will not be bounced into a decision on this matter or give a knee jerk reaction to it. I would like electronic voting to work. After the recount of my votes in 1997, I was very clear that I wanted electronic voting.
Why is that?
Electronic voting has the capacity to deliver more efficient voting. The Deputy is well aware how surpluses——
The current system could deliver a different result.
There are advantages and there are also possibilities of added value, for example, that people could vote from anywhere in the country and would not necessarily have to be in their own constituency. I would like to explore these possibilities. However, it may not be possible to do all of this. If I find that nothing can be done about these particular machines, we will have no alternative but——
How long will that take?
I hope we will do it as quickly as possible.
92 Deputy Ciarán Lynch asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when the legislative framework will be put in place to enable local authorities to be in a position to allow council tenants who live in apartments to be able to buy their home under a tenant purchase scheme. [22899/07]
The local authority tenant purchase scheme was first introduced on a national basis in 1973 and the scheme in its current form has been in operation since 1995. The current scheme allows tenants who have been resident in a local authority house for a minimum period of one year to apply to their local authority to either purchase the dwelling outright or acquire it by way of shared ownership. Initial eligibility for the scheme is also subject to purchasers not being in rent arrears.
Certain categories of dwellings, including older persons dwellings, maisonettes and flats or apartments, are excluded from the scheme. Local authorities also reserve the right to exclude certain houses from the scheme's remit for reasons of good estate management, structural condition or on the basis of proposals to carry out restorative work to the dwelling.
The Government's statement on housing policy, Delivering Homes, Sustaining Communities, published in February 2007, indicated that reforms are needed to the existing tenant purchase model to implement a more cost effective and equitable system, including the introduction of a scheme for the sale of local authority apartments to tenants under certain conditions and revised terms.
A social housing miscellaneous provisions Bill, currently being drafted, is expected to be published in early 2008. Work on addressing the complex legal issues relating to the tenant purchase of local authority apartments is being advanced in that context.
This is not the answer I was expecting. My question very clearly asks when the legislative framework will be put in place. County and city managers across the country are prepared to move ahead with the scheme. The legal difficulties to which the Minister of State referred were worked out as far back as 2005. The city councils in both Dublin and Cork were part of a working group which considered topics such as sinking funds and the regulations on the freehold and title hold of selling these types of properties. The Minister in the previous Government gave a commitment as far back as 2005 that the legislative framework would be put in place in that period. What has happened in the ten years since 1997?
A question, Deputy.
Can the Minister of State give a specific date regarding when the legislative framework will be put in place?
We hope the Bill will be put in place in early 2008. There are very complex issues relating to it. The Government is committed to introducing changes in the tenant purchase system. We must also take account of the advice from the Office of the Attorney General. There are certain issues with which the officials from the Attorney General's office are not satisfied. Officials from my Department are engaged in consultation with the Attorney General's office on this issue and it is hoped that this measure, among others, will be introduced early in 2008. I cannot introduce a system that will be found wanting legally at the end of the day. We want to make absolutely sure that, when it is introduced, it will stand up in law.
People buy apartments all over Europe, yet it seems they cannot buy an apartment from an Irish local authority. I would like to see the legal advice from the Office of the Attorney General, stating there is a blockage on this matter, and I ask the Minister of State to bring it before the House. In the meantime, property prices have risen by 300% while people are waiting. The tenants are getting older and they may not be able to secure a 20-year mortgage schedule. It would have to be this length if one is to pay off the mortgage by the age of 65.
Has the Minister of State considered putting in place a ministerial order that can fast-track this process while the legislative framework is being worked out? If there are problems with the Attorney General's office, there is a ministerial provision that would allow this to happen. Given that the Minister of State's predecessor indicated in 2005 that this issue would be finalised in the lifetime of that Government, it is completely unacceptable that we are now being told it will be finalised in 2008.
I want to ensure that I am not misquoted. The Office of the Attorney General is not causing a blockage. There are complex legal issues that must be overcome. It is incumbent on the Attorney General and on my Department to ensure that, when the legislation is introduced, it will stand up to scrutiny. We want to be absolutely certain that, when the legislation is introduced in 2008, it will be watertight.
The first issue the Minister, Deputy Gormley, raised with me was that he had committed himself to the introduction of this Bill. There is certainly no delay on our part. We are anxious to make progress, but we must be satisfied that all the legal complexities are addressed.
Will the Minister of State bring to the House the legal advice from the Attorney General which states there may be a difficulty with the Bill?
That information is never published.
