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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 16 Dec 2008

Vol. 670 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re joint sitting to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the first sitting of Dáil Éireann; No. 9, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the three interim economic partnership agreements; No. 10, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a Council framework decision on the European evidence warrant; No. 11, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a Council framework decision amending framework decisions; No. 23, Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) (No. 2) Bill 2008 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 24, Finance (No. 2) Bill 2008 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 8, 9, 10 and 11 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of No. 23 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government; in the event that a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members' business, which shall be No. 61, motion re housing, the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted after Private Members' time, which shall be taken for 90 minutes tonight, and Standing Order 117(3) shall not apply; and parliamentary questions next for answer by the Taoiseach on EU matters shall be taken on the same day as the statements on EU Council meeting, Brussels, scheduled to be taken on Wednesday, 17 December 2008, and shall be moved to be taken first as ordinary oral questions to the Taoiseach on that day.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for Nos. 8, 9, 10 and 11 to be taken without debate agreed to?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It is not agreed.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I do not want to fall into the annual practice of saying: "Do not go on holidays for a certain period." The proposal from the Government is that the Dáil will return at the end of January. The most important concerns in the country at present are protecting jobs and creating and sustaining employment. We need to consider the statements by the Government on the recapitalisation of the banks and its economic plan. I do not expect the Taoiseach to make time for these matters today but I suggest that the House should sit either this Friday or next Tuesday to deal with them.

A sizeable chunk of the money invested by taxpayers in the National Pensions Reserve Fund will be made available to the banking system. I am not sure whether it is in the Taoiseach's head to come back with a plan and seek legal authority from the Dáil or if he would prefer to put through legislation and then apply conditions when the Government and the banks are in agreement on the system of recapitalisation to be implemented. While I do not wish to object to the Order of Business, I would like the Taoiseach to indicate whether we can have a substantive discussion on this matter on Friday or next Tuesday.

It is wrong to adjourn the House on Thursday and not return until the closing days of January. In the meantime, the Government will have made its decision after consulting the banks on how it should proceed with recapitalisation. The matter is very serious and real concerns are being expressed by employers and employees. Local economies throughout the country have been affected. It would be wrong of Dáil Éireann to retire for six weeks rather than deal with a matter as consequential as this. I make these observations in respect of the first proposal put by the Ceann Comhairle and ask the Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Joan Burton

I find the earlier comments made by the Taoiseach to be incomplete. I want to know whether the Government plans to provide time for a debate between now and the Dáil's adjournment on Thursday if the Government decides not to introduce the necessary legislation in respect of the National Pensions Reserve Fund.

Despite everything he has said about the banks, he failed to mention the elephant in the room, namely, the issue of the bad debts carried by the banks. It is not that the banks lack capital but that when they write off those bad debts the hole in their capital will be as big as the hole that sunk the Titanic. That is the essence of the matter. It may only affect some banks in terms of the covered institutions but how can the Taoiseach propose to send the Dáil on a recess for six weeks and not allow a debate when matters will be addressed which deal with the lifeblood of this economy, the jobs of tens of thousands of people and the survival of thousands of businesses in the difficult period after Christmas?

It is simply unbelievable that the Taoiseach would send a statement to the newspapers which would do justice to the Sphinx it is so vague. He spoke about preference shares, ordinary shares and underwriting.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a carryover from Leaders' Questions.

Deputy Joan Burton

Underwriting is a form of insurance.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have that.

Deputy Joan Burton

Has the Taoiseach already handed over the Bank of Ireland to the Mallabraca consortium, Carlyle and J.C. Flowers?

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on. The Deputy has made her point that she is objecting to the Order of Business.

Deputy Joan Burton

May we have a debate?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is only entitled to make a short statement.

Deputy Joan Burton

In the interests of business, may we have an indication if the Taoiseach and Government are prepared to make time for a debate?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot talk about the banks now.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

We are not prepared to accept the Order of Business as presented. We are following on from ministerial questions to the Minister for Health and Children, during which she indicated the service plan for 2009 for the HSE had been laid before the House and was on the green Order Paper for today's business. It is on the green Order Paper but up to a short time before the commencement of this Order of Business and following the Minister having indicated to the House that the service plan had been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas, it was not available in the Oireachtas Library to Members.

I call on the Minister to produce the service plan for the HSE, wherein, we understand, she has signed off——

An Ceann Comhairle

That has nothing at all to do with this proposal.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——on €530 million of cuts in health care delivery——

Deputy Mary Coughlan

Go away out of that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the Deputy objecting to the Order of Business?

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——in 2009. I will finish my point.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

He will eventually come to it.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

This is pertinent to the very question the Ceann Comhairle is asking us to accept. No. 8 is a motion on the sitting to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the first sitting of Dáil Éireann. Nobody here should forget that in the Democratic Programme for the First Dáil, the commitment was there to safeguard the health of the people.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

And not to murder them.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into it now.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Yet we have a position where we are being asked to accept an Order Paper that does not even accommodate or address in excess of €500 million in proposed cuts in health services over the coming 12 months. It is simply and absolutely unacceptable on top of all of the other cuts and continuous haemorrhage of services that we have witnessed——

An Ceann Comhairle

I call on the Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——throughout this year. This Order Paper fails to address the most important issue of concern to the Irish people today and it must be rejected.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Hear, hear.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call the Taoiseach to reply on the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The committees will return to the House on 7 January and be ongoing with their work. International trade missions will also be conducted by Ministers in an effort to secure and maintain jobs and keep markets open for products and services which are fundamental to the State.

A special sitting of the House is being suggested to celebrate the 90th anniversary of the First Dáil which will be in the Mansion House on 20 January. I look forward to it as it is an historic occasion.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

It certainly is.

The Taoiseach

I hope it will be a dignified occasion to which we can all rise. I look forward to contributing on that day.

I do not wish to reopen issues that have been dealt with already in Leaders' Questions but on the whole question of underwriting, EGMs, share issues or prospectuses having to be drawn up, there is a range of issues that must be dealt with under company law before that comes about. The idea that it will all happen over Christmas is not the full picture of the procedures in the event of a recapitalisation taking place in the banks and how State participation in such an event would proceed.

It does not add justified confidence to the system on the regulatory position where there are capital adequacy ratios that are sufficient to make contentions——

Deputy Joan Burton

Nobody believes that. Why are the shares tanking?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should let him finish.

Deputy Joan Burton

Why are the shares down?

The Taoiseach

It is not correct, in an effort to maintain financial stability, to state this is not the case. We should stick to the regulatory arrangements as they are.

Deputy Joan Burton

Why are the shares at 30 cent?

The Taoiseach

We should allow people to get on with the real economy and maintain some confidence in it rather than suggesting it is not even worth talking about.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

Exactly.

Question put, "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 8, 9, 10 and 11 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 70; Níl, 64.

Tá

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Pat Carey and John Cregan; Níl, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23 agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with parliamentary questions next for answer by the Taoiseach on EU matters agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I would like the Government to respond by arranging a motion, statements or questions about the bank recapitalisation programme for this week or next Tuesday. I say this in all sincerity. It is necessary that the House has an opportunity to tease out the implications of the statements by the Minister for Finance and where the Government intends to go with the matter. Is it the Government's intention to wait until the House returns in January to deal with legislation in terms of Dáil authorisation for the Government to use moneys from the pensions reserve fund for any capitalisation programme?

When is it proposed to give the House an opportunity to discuss the revised health programme as outlined and approved by the Minister for Health and Children, which was seen and announced to the nation by the national broadcaster?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss that matter now.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Will any legislative changes be involved that might require a discussion in the House?

The Taoiseach

Regarding the Deputy's question on the recapitalisation issue, it is a matter for the Whips to discuss if people want statements. To hear the views of the House would be no harm and might be helpful. Some statements at some time during the week could be considered, but it is important to point out that timetables are involved. Depending on what type of recapitalisation were to emerge, various timetables apply in terms of rights issues. They are far longer than the House's break for the Christmas period. I want to emphasise that the Government is in a negotiating position. Therefore, the question of statements might be helpful in that context, but we should not go beyond it at this point.

The HSE service plan is for 2009 and can be discussed at any time by the House in the course of 2009. There are statutory requirements for the laying of the plan before the Houses of the Oireachtas, which I understand were complied with by the Minister for Health and Children. Therefore, the agreement of a service plan does not of itself require a legislative change. Under existing legislation, it can be laid before the Houses and discussed during the course of the next session.

Deputy Joan Burton

I welcome the Taoiseach's statement to the effect that time may be allowed for a discussion of the bank capitalisation proposal. It will send a solid signal to markets, namely, that the Government has some sense of what it wants to do. To wait until the end of January would be unbelievable.

Concerning promised legislation, the Tánaiste stated on 20 November that health insurance legislation would be introduced in the Dáil before the recess. When will we see the legislation? She stated that it would be published before Christmas, but we have not seen it. Will we see it in the coming days?

On the Order Paper, No. 8 is intended to commemorate the first sitting of the first Dáil. The Labour Party will be delighted to participate. In terms of the development of our democracy, was the Taoiseach not saddened by the forced resignation of Mr. Niall Crowley as the chief executive of the Equality Authority?

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no chance that we will get into that matter now. The Taoiseach will answer the question on legislation.

Deputy Joan Burton

It has been a development of our democracy, flawed and all as the Minister may see it.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have it.

Deputy Joan Burton

The Minister did not cut the €6 million for——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is out of order. She must find another way to raise the matter.

Deputy Joan Burton

——Ministers' Garda drivers. Instead, he chose to make a 43% cut in the agency's budget.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are plenty of ways in which to raise the matter if the Deputy wishes. She could table it on the Adjournment.

Deputy Joan Burton

As we are properly commemorating the development of our democracy and our first democratic day, it seems wrong that the Government is simultaneously forcing the resignation of the head of the Equality Authority, a person of integrity.

An Ceann Comhairle

Table the matter on the Adjournment. The Taoiseach on the health insurance legislation.

The Taoiseach

That matter requires the approval of the European Commission as well. We are in discussions at EU level on the proposals that we have so that we can introduce legislation. We were hopeful that we would have it before the end of this term, but it looks more likely that it will be early next year.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

On today's Order Paper, No. 18 refers to the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny's report on the recovery of cod stocks. This morning, it was announced on RTE that there was an EU proposal to introduce fish quotas for anglers. Will the Taoiseach clarify whether the Government was aware of and will support this proposal?

The Arts Council has been without a chair and half of its members for almost six months.

An Ceann Comhairle

No.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

The Government may be planning its abolition.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can table the matter on the Adjournment.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

The Ceann Comhairle would be interested in the issue. Is there a reason for——

An Ceann Comhairle

What I am interested in does not matter, as this is outside Standing Orders.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

Will the Taoiseach respond to the first question?

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us move quickly.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

It was a good try, though.

The Taoiseach

Unfortunately, I am not aware of what emerged in the media this morning.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

It was one of the first items on this morning's news.

An Ceann Comhairle

Are regulations promised in this area? No.

The Taoiseach

If a question on its status were asked of the line Minister, it would be helpful.

Deputy Michael Creed

That will be too late. The deal will be concluded in Brussels.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy can be assured that our interests will be continually defended by the Minister concerned.

Deputy Olivia Mitchell

Is that a "Yes"?

Deputy Richard Bruton

I have read persistent rumours that the Government is planning additional tax proposals, notably in respect of research and development. We are proposing to debate the Finance Bill today and tomorrow. Will those proposals be introduced as part of it or are we to expect a second Bill in the new year, at which time they will be debated?

The Taoiseach

That would be a matter for the Minister for Finance to decide in due course. I have not been following the Finance Bill this year as closely I did in previous years, but I understand that it is a matter that can be discussed on Report Stage.

Deputy Richard Bruton

It can be. The amendment may be tabled.

The Taoiseach

I am referring to the question of what are the Minister's intentions. I do not expect——

Deputy Charles Flanagan

This day last week in response to the 43rd brutal murder in the State since the beginning of the year, the Ceann Comhairle facilitated the asking of questions to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in the House as to initiatives the Government might introduce to stop the spiral of killing and stem the tide of crime. Since then, there have been two further brutal murders and a hapless Minister of State——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must find another way to raise the matter. I allowed the question last week so that the matter could be discussed in the House within Standing Orders. For this reason, I cannot allow the issue this morning.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

On promised legislation, there have been two further brutal murders, one in this city and another in County Galway, since last week. In an unprecedented development, a hapless Minister of State——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss this matter now. If the Deputy has a question, he should just ask it.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

——was taken hostage.

An Ceann Comhairle

Ask a question.

Deputy Charles Flanagan

It was more appropriate to a South American tinpot democracy than a modern democratic state.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are not in South America now. The Deputy should ask his question about legislation.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Charles Flanagan

On promised legislation, this is a serious matter. On 23 September, the Chief Whip——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is an abuse.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

If the Ceann Comhairle was opposite, he——

Deputy Charles Flanagan

——published the list of legislation to be published and enacted before the end of the session. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform's section includes the criminal justice (forensic sampling evidence) Bill, the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, the criminal justice (money laundering) Bill and the sale of alcohol Bill. Why has none of this legislation been enacted and why has not a single one of these Bills been debated in the House since 23 September? None of them has been published.

By way of a further initiative, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform promised that a covert surveillance Bill would be published and debated before the end of this session, but there has been no sign of it. The Minister's action in respect of it has certainly been more covert than anything else. It is important that we debate this matter before the end of the session. The Minister's only response to the crime and murder taking place in the State has been to announce the general scheme of the criminal justice (public order)(amendment) Bill, which relates to vagrancy and is designed to prevent people begging on the streets in the run-up to Christmas. Will the Taoiseach indicate the proposals of the Government in respect of these Bills, which were promised last September?

The Taoiseach

I will go through the Bills to which the Deputy refers in detail. Dealing with violent crime and murder is an operational matter for the Garda Síochána. The force is devoting many of its resources to dealing with these matters and is enjoying much success in many respects. I do not wish to take away from the seriousness of the ongoing problem but it is not just a question of enacting legislation. A great deal of appropriate legislation has been enacted in recent years and has been of major assistance to the Garda Síochána in dealing with the matters to which I refer. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, is committed to bringing forward further legislation.

Drafting is progressing in respect of the criminal justice (forensic sampling and evidence) Bill. In light of the need for further consultations on procedural and technical aspects, as well as the need to study the judgment of the European Court of Human Rights on 4 December last in the case of S and Marper v. UK on the retention, etc., of samples and profiles, it now seems unlikely that the Bill will be ready for publication before the end of January next. The reason for this is that we must ensure that we make provision in respect of the issue to which I refer. The judgment of the European Court of Human Rights is being examined by the Department and the Office of the Attorney General. Publication will take place sometime after the conclusion of this examination.

Drafting on the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill is expected to be completed by the end of the year. It has been necessary to include some additional amendments to existing firearms provisions. However, it is expected that the Bill will be submitted to the Government for approval to publish in January.

Drafting is ongoing in respect of the criminal justice (money laundering) Bill. A number of legal and technical issues have arisen and these have delayed progress on completing the Bill. It is unlikely that the Bill will be available this session.

The text of the property services (regulatory) Bill is being finalised, subject to clearance by the Attorney General on some technical and legal aspects. Drafting of the text of the sale of alcohol Bill has been delayed because the Parliamentary Counsel charged with responsibility in this regard is also drafting the property services (regulatory) Bill. There are doubts that the text of the sale of alcohol Bill can be ready for publication this session. However, it should be ready for publication early in the next session.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

I am seeking clarification from the Ceann Comhairle. The House may have been misinformed earlier today by the Minister for Health and Children, who stated that she laid the HSE's national service plan before the Dáil on Wednesday last, 10 December. However, the plan is listed on today's Order Paper and has only just become available from the Oireachtas Library. It was not available earlier this afternoon. Will the Ceann Comhairle indicate whether the Minister may have inadvertently misled the House in respect of the plan, which contains proposals for over €500 million in cuts to the health service? This is an extremely serious matter. If the plan was laid before the House on Wednesday last, it should have been available to Members before the Minister for Health and Children answered parliamentary questions in the House today.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I thank Deputy Jan O'Sullivan for highlighting the fact that the plan is now actually available to Members, which was not the case earlier today. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether the Government will accommodate a debate on the contents of the service plan before the Christmas recess? Will he set aside time this week or make time available next week in order that we might discuss the €500 billion in cuts to the budget of the HSE for 2009? What is proposed will mean calamity for innocent individuals and already hard-pressed communities——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot make a Second Stage speech on the Order of Business.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

——throughout the State?

The Taoiseach

The service plan can be debated in the House at any time after the Christmas recess. More than €14.7 billion is being allocated in respect of the provision of health services next year. Engagement involving management and unions is taking place on the question of how greater flexibility might be obtained in respect of work practices. Such flexibility would avoid the necessity of introducing the sort of front line cuts that are being suggested. If one takes the position relating to nursing home payments into account, the underlying increase in next year's budget for the health service will be approximately €580 million. It is not correct to state that €500 million less is being provided. The increase in next year's budget is 3.2%.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

That does not come anywhere near matching medical inflation.

The Taoiseach

If the Opposition is suggesting that we must continue to deliver health services at current levels——

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

That is not what we are saying at all.

The Taoiseach

——then that is at variance with the position of the stakeholders.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

We need to protect patients and front line services.

The Taoiseach

I am also anxious to protect patients and to ensure that the necessary reforms, flexibilities and efficiencies in work practices will be forthcoming which will ensure that front line services are not affected to the extent indicated by the Deputies — who both assume there will be a "no change" situation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

Will the Ceann Comhairle clarify——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot engage in a debate on health.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

——why the Minister for Health and Children indicated that the service plan was laid before the House on Wednesday last?

An Ceann Comhairle

We will be obliged to check the position with the Minister for Health and Children.

Deputy Jan O’Sullivan

Is this not a matter for which the Ceann Comhairle has responsibility?

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes. I will check the position with the Minister and revert to the Deputy.

Deputy James Bannon

It is over two weeks since the Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill, which is an urgent measure, was debated in the House. Why was the Bill not placed on the Order Paper for this week or last week? When will the Second Stage debate on the Bill be resumed?

The Government slashed funding for heritage projects throughout the country by 38% in the recent budget.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should not comment on that matter now.

Deputy James Bannon

Will the Taoiseach indicate when the heritage fund Bill will come before the House?

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

On the first issue to which Deputy Bannon referred, there is every possibility the Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill — or, as the Minister for Health and Children refers to it, the fair deal scheme — will be challenged in the Supreme Court because it may be considered to be in conflict with our equality legislation on the basis that it is ageist. Does the Taoiseach intend to introduce a supplementary budget to ensure that people who have been put to the pin of their collars will obtain some relief——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot inquire about a supplementary budget unless one has been promised. To the best of my knowledge, such a budget has not been promised.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

——while we are awaiting the eventual enactment of the legislation?

The Taoiseach

The Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill is before the House and the Second Stage debate thereon will be resumed. I do not have a date for the publication of the heritage fund Bill.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

What is the position with regard to a supplementary estimate?

Deputy Terence Flanagan

The Taoiseach referred briefly to No. 16 on the Government's legislative programme. Will separate Bills be introduced in respect of the auctioneering profession and the regulation of property management companies? The Taoiseach stated that the legislation has almost been finalised. When will it be introduced? This matter has been the subject of some discussion for many years.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

On the issue of property management companies, the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment previously indicated to the House that the relevant legislation would be ready before Christmas. Given that there are only a couple of sitting days remaining in this session, will the Taoiseach provide an update in respect of the Bill?

The Taoiseach

We are progressing with drafting the legislation. As the Deputies are aware, various Departments are involved. Deputy Terence Flanagan also referred to the auctioneering profession. I understand it is the Minister's intention to incorporate provisions relating to that matter in the property services regulatory authority Bill.

Deputy Terence Flanagan

So there will only be one Bill.

The Taoiseach

Auctioneering will be dealt with in the Bill to which I refer and there will then be further legislation.

Deputy Jimmy Deenihan

When will the defence (amendment) Bill be ready for publication? When will the Government decide on whether the Defence Forces' mission in Chad will be extended from April? Will it become a UNFOR or UNIFIL mission at that stage? I understand a decision in this regard must be made in the near future.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot deal with the latter issue now.

The Taoiseach

It is expected that the defence (amendment) Bill will be published in the middle of next year. The Minister for Defence will advise the Government in due course as to what our position should be in respect of the Chad mission.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

Will legislation relating to the imposition of spending limits in respect of next year's local elections be introduced in the House this week?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised in this area?

The Taoiseach

Such legislation will not be introduced this week.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The Taoiseach was much more specific in respect of the legislation relating to estate management when he last referred to it in the House. Will he indicate whether progress has been made on the Bill in the interim? Constituents of all Members are deeply concerned at the lack of action in this area and the number of Bills mounting up. Perhaps the Taoiseach will respond at this stage to that question.

The Taoiseach

Drafting in respect of various aspects of this legislation is continuing. The Deputy will be aware various Departments are involved. The priority is to get the drafting complete and having done so to make a decision as to whether it would be best to incorporate all the issues, which are interconnected, into one Bill. We must get on with the drafting in respect of the various aspects of this issue as it applies to various Departments. Once that has been done we can engage with the Attorney General in respect of whether it would be more expeditious to incorporate all the issues in an omnibus Bill or to proceed separately with the issues through the various departmental priorities.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. I wish to ask about an issue already raised, although in a slightly different context. In view of the proposals announced by the Minister for Health and Children and released to the media in advance, will the Taoiseach say, if in view of the magnitude of the slash and burn cuts right across the board, the Government intends——

An Ceann Comhairle

No.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

This is a serious issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I accept it is a serious issue but we must move on and the issue raised by the Deputy must be in order.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Christmas is approaching; the Minister made these announcements which affect the population at large, which is hardly a Christmas box.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must put a question.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Will the legislation as promised be brought before the House? The proposals announced by the Minister will have a widespread effect on the community at large.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Will the Taoiseach say if, for instance, it is intended to abolish the common cold and illness? The situation is that people will be turned away——-

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Durkan cannot, under any circumstances, make a Second Stage speech now. I call the Taoiseach. Is legislation promised in this area?

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Yes, there is legislation promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should name the legislation and allow the Taoiseach to answer in that regard so that we can move on.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

The legislation concerned is a Bill dealing with health and personal social services. Obviously, this will not be brought forward and will be abolished because there will be no services available. The health information Bill seeks to provide a legislative framework for the governance of information in the health sector. We do not even get such information in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Durkan, please allow the Taoiseach to answer the question.

The Taoiseach

Other legislative proposals, including the nursing homes Bill and the legislation dealing with health insurance, which is an important matter, have had to be prioritised. Work on some of these Bills is continuing. The Minister for Health and Children has, in fairness, brought in more legislation to ensure uniform standards and eligibility rules in the aftermath of a variation of interpretations during the old health board era and must be given credit for doing so.

I do not accept the Deputy's contention. I reiterate what I said earlier in response to other Deputies that the service plan includes €14.7 billion for the provision of health services in this country next year, a substantial amount of money. This sum is €580 million greater than that provided this year, taking into account the nursing home subvention provision. That is a substantial amount of money. It is being contended that without further work practice changes it will be difficult to maintain the type of service levels currently being provided. I believe, given the current economic situation facing this country, there is a duty on all of us to ensure we agree whatever must be agreed in this respect so that we do not affect front line services and patients' access to such services.

A contribution of €14.7 billion by taxpayers is a considerable commitment and one that warrants that type of co-operation at hospital and service level. In fairness to those who represent workers in this area, I believe that co-operation will be forthcoming because of their commitment to the provision of a health service in line with current realities.

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