Vol. 698 No. 4
26 Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on the reductions in budget 2010 on local drugs initiatives, particularly on the development outlined in the new National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016 announced three months ago; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47143/09]
30 Deputy Simon Coveney asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on whether the aims of the recently published national drugs strategy will prove achievable in view of the cutbacks in drugs-related expenditure in budget 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47082/09]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 26 and 30 together.
I am satisfied that the objectives of the National Drugs Strategy 2009-2016 will be achieved despite the cuts in funding for 2010. When the strategy was launched in September last, it was clear that its implementation would have to be achieved in the context of more limited funding in the short to medium term. At that time I identified the optimum use of the available resources as being essential, with a strong focus on the further development of interagency work. This approach will facilitate the delivery of more efficient and effective services, leading to improved outcomes for people who are affected by the drugs problem.
As part of the implementation process, I met all drugs task forces over the past few months and the expected position in regard to funding for 2010 was among the issues discussed in all cases. I emphasised the need to prioritise projects with a view to ensuring the most effective use of resources and the most beneficial outcomes for service users. Needs and priorities change over time and, consequently, drugs task forces and service providers must ensure that funding is realigned to match changing circumstances. The task forces are fully engaged in this process and I have given them the scope to redirect funding within their allocations to best address the realigned priorities they identified for their areas of operation. I am satisfied this approach will minimise the impact from the reduction in funding in 2010.
As part of the strategy, I intend twice a year to meet a number of Ministers and various senior officials who are tasked with implementing various actions in the strategy. I have completed the first round of such meetings and have stressed the need for Departments and agencies to ensure that high priority is given to achieving the objectives of the strategy. These meetings facilitated a good exchange of views and focused on the importance of the continued effective implementation of other programmes that affect the broader issues underpinning problem drug use.
Members should also note that a drugs advisory group has been set up under the new strategy, with membership from across the statutory, community and voluntary sectors. This group meets regularly, advises me on operational and policy matters relating to the national drugs strategy and oversees and supports the work of the drugs task forces. An oversight forum on drugs, OFD, which I chair, has been also established and the first meeting was held in October. The primary role of the oversight forum is the ongoing high level examination of progress across the strategy and addressing of any operational difficulties and blockages that may arise. Against this background, I have asked for progress reports by later this month from all Department and agencies that have lead responsibility for actions of the strategy. The reports will cover the status of progress on the actions and the plans and time scale for full implementation. The outcome of this process will feed into the next meeting of the forum in January and robust performance management will continue throughout the implementation period of the strategy.
While there will be some reduction in the resources available in 2010, the overall amount of money available to tackle the drugs problem will still be considerable. I remind Deputies that more than €275 million was made available to tackle the drugs problem across Departments and agencies in 2009 and considerable progress is being made. At the same time, the difficulties facing our society as a consequence of problem drug use are significant, and addressing all the factors involved will not be easy. However, I am determined that real progress will continue to be made across the period of the strategy, with all sectors working in a co-ordinated and targeted way to achieve implementation of the agreed actions.
Is the Minister of State saying that in the past too much money was spent on these programmes or that the money spent was not used efficiently or effectively? He now seems to be able to make do with less money. Has there ever been an analysis of the cost of the illegal drug trade to the State, in terms of policing, crime, education and health? Is the illegal drug trade in the State increasing or decreasing? Will he comment on heroin misuse? It is reported it is becoming a significant problem, especially in rural areas across the country. How will cutting back on funding impact on the fight against the heroin problem and drug misuse generally in the State?
We had a charade regarding the national drugs strategy a few weeks ago. I was there, as was the Taoiseach and the Minister. Were we codding those involved in trying to do something for those affected by drugs? At that stage the Government was deciding on the Estimates. The Taoiseach, the Minister of State, Deputy Curran, and the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, knew exactly what was happening regarding the cut backs. Deputy Stanton has asked the questions I wanted to ask. What projects will be cut? What areas of the country will be affected? Will anything be delivered, other than the new strategy in 2010? I spoke to Deputy Byrne earlier. She is somebody who has represented her area very well and had a great understanding——
15 seconds, Deputy.
We have been waiting since 4 p.m. today.
You know the rules of the House. There is one minute per speaker.
Excuse me. No, I have a question — Question No. 30.
Deputy, you know the rules as well as I do. Complete your point.
I see this man giving you the indicator about the rules. We are the Members and I had this with officials before.
Deputy Ring.
He is not elected by anybody. I am elected. Do not aggravate me at this hour of the night. He is elected by nobody and I see him sending up messages.
Deputy Ring, you will obey the rules. Other speakers are waiting.
Let them in. We have until 10.30 p.m. I have waited until 4 p.m. today when you moved Question Time because it is community, rural and Gaeltacht affairs and it does not count.
Deputy, complete your questions please.
Thank you. I am speaking through the Chair.
Deputy Mitchell wants to abolish the Department.
That is incorrect.
Deputy, you are over time. Will you complete your question please.
She said it on——
If you had left me alone, I would have the question asked by now, Chairman. If the official had not been sending you messages, I would be well finished by now.
I am reading the messages and I know them as well.
Yes. He is good. He is not elected by anyone. I am elected by the people. Before I was interrupted by the official and the Acting Chairman——
Excuse me, Deputy, you were not interrupted by any official.
I see him sending messages to you.
You were interrupted by me, the Acting Chairman.
Are you finished now?
Excuse me. I had an interesting experience last week. It looks like I could have another one now. Will you please obey the rules of the House.
I know the rules of the House well. I have been in here longer than you.
Yes, and that means you have one minute to address the Minister. Please complete your contribution.
You keep interrupting me. If you stopped interrupting me I would be finished. Was it a farce to announce the national drugs strategy when the money is not in place? Deputy Byrne has done a great deal of work regarding people affected by drugs and because they are not powerful enough to come and lobby outside the House, it was easy to cut their funding. I will address the comment on Deputy Mitchell in a moment.
One aspect of the strategy about which I am concerned in a broader context is local drugs taskforces and their presence on the ground, in terms of the public relations exercise which should happen. How are they linking with all the community activities and schools? How are they talking to the local newspapers and radio stations? I do not believe that is happening. I am deeply concerned that the confidence needed to fight this awful habit which is now a problem in many urban and rural communities. How can we gel the whole system together to give confidence to parents and so on?
Ten seconds, Deputy.
Please. Forget it, I will sit down. You need not bother answering the question, Minister.
The Minister said there is a difficult time ahead for everybody, given the funding situation. I have a question regarding the cut of 11% in the drugs initiative programme. This morning, a spokesperson for Ballyfermot youth centre spoke on a radio programme about the project it runs for young children, in particular teenagers in school. It is a six-week programme called Can You Hack It which deals with addiction to cocaine, hash, alcohol and other drugs. Next year it will have to close the project because its funding through the drugs initiative has been cut. If there was ever a time when we needed to educate young people here about drugs it is now.
I ask the Minister to speak to the people in Ballyfermot youth club and see if there is any way this project, which has done wonders for young people in the area in terms of keeping them out of a problem which is rife throughout communities, can be kept in place. The problem will be solved through education, not through other measures. If we are to stop the scourge of drugs in this country, we have to start by educating young people. It does not need to be done through schools; it can be done in communities in the way it is being done here, which is the correct way to go.
What will the Minister do about the Ministers or Departments which are withdrawing their commitment to the strategy? His Department co-ordinates the strategy. I refer specifically to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy O'Keeffe. Can the Minister knock heads together and get all the Ministers together who were part of the strategy when the Taoiseach launched it some weeks ago? I do not know what the structures are — the Cabinet sub-committee or the IDG may deal with this area. It must be very embarrassing that some of the Minister's Cabinet colleagues are walking away from the strategy. Over the year this money was moved from his Department to the Department of Education and Science. It was included in the education ELS. Will the Minister meet the Minister for Finance, Deputy Lenihan, get the money back for his Department and run the projects?
Deputy Byrne referred to Ballyfermot. There are a number of educational projects in my area of Finglas and Ballymun. We could understand a cut of 10% or 11% because that is the world in which we now live. Projects will have to live with that. Ministers are announcing they are withdrawing their commitment with regard to money which was transferred from their Departments several years ago. I ask the Minister to get that money back and run the projects himself. He is responsible for them and his Department is the co-ordinator for the strategy. Ministers cannot be allowed to carry on like that.
How long do I have to answer these questions?
About 30 seconds.
Bear with me. I will be as quick——
We will bear with you. Please do not waste time.
I will try to be as direct as possible.
I will take no lectures from you, Chairman.
Listen to the Minister of State's answers.
I will take no lectures from you, thank you, or anyone like you.
To answer the last question on funding from other Departments for the drugs strategy, I understand the project to which Deputy Byrne referred is one which was funded by the Department of Education and Science. I will answer the question in that context, but if it is not I will revert to the Deputy after the debate. Our drug advisory group met today. Unfortunately I could not attend the meeting because the business of the House was voted upon. One issue which arose concerned the Department of Education and in that context I will meet the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy O'Keeffe.
This aspect related to projects that were mainstreamed and originally funded from another Department. I can confirm that projects that are mainstreamed to the HSE while there will be a percentage cut, it is in the order of 5% or 7% and not of the same scale. So those projects may experience some difficulty, but not a withdrawal of funding as has been indicated in this case with the Department of Education and Science. I will meet the Minister for Education and Science to ascertain the rationale and what can be done to address it.
Deputy Stanton asked about the analysis of costs. Figures for the total package of costs do not seem to exist in the global sense that he requested. He also asked how we would do things better and whether the entire strategy was a farce. It is not a farce, far from it. Considerable work went into developing the strategy. Let me make this point forcefully. It is not my strategy, but the strategy of the people involved in the area. Considerable consultation went into it and it runs for an extended period. While incrementally in any given year we might not achieve as much as we want, if we do not have a sense of direction as to where we are going, we are at nothing. The strategy clearly sets out a direction. My job as Minister of State with responsibility for the strategy is to try to progress it year on year, but it is not based on any one year. I met representatives of all the task forces earlier in the year and indicated to them that inevitably there would be some level of reduction in funding. While the headline reduction figure across the area is 11%, the reduction in the level of funding to the local task forces is in the order of 8.5% and the regional task forces, on which we spent €10 million in 2009, will receive €10 million again this year. The reason for this is the level service provided by the regional task forces would not have developed as much.
I agree with Deputy Stanton that heroin use has increased throughout the country. The anecdotal evidence and a number of recent surveys have shown that. It emerged out of Dublin, extended down the east coast and throughout Leinster and is now around the southern part of the country. While it is also a problem in other parts of the country, those would be the parts where it is most prevalent. We would have had the anecdotal evidence of that from people presenting for treatment, etc., and we have dealt with it. We have worked with the HSE to have new clinical capacity available in Carlow, Kilkenny, Wexford, Cork, Tralee and Limerick all operational in the first quarter of next year. While clinics are of great value they are nothing without the back-up of what we call "level 2" GPs. At the moment, unfortunately, people from some of those areas need to travel to Dublin. The funding for that was put in place last year. The secret of success when there is less money involves a commitment from the HSE to reorganise the way it is doing business. It is providing clinical staff in those centres from within its existing allocation of resources. That is how we will make progress.
While the level of funding has reduced, so has our cost of living. I spoke to representatives of task forces and asked them to carefully consider efficiencies. They need to review their rents, overheads and use of manpower. Those who are employed as counsellors need to be used for counselling services and facilities need to be shared, etc. That is what each task force has undertaken to do. While people may disagree, yesterday when the Taoiseach was asked a question he indicated that our cost of living had dropped back to what it was in February 2007. In February 2007 the funding we made available to task forces was less than €28 million. The funding we are allocating to task forces this year, while less than last year is considerably more than it was in 2007 and is in the region of €31 million. While I am not taking away from the difficulties it will pose for task forces to live within that, if we reorganise and co-ordinate better and seek efficiencies, particularly in the areas of administration and overheads, I believe that we should be able to deliver again this coming year all of the front-line services we delivered in 2009.
May I ask a supplementary question because one of the questions was tabled in my name?
We are nearly five minutes over time.
Is the level of illegal drug use increasing or decreasing across the country?
From the data available on the general prevalence of use, illegal drug use seems to be increasing slightly.
27 Deputy Olivia Mitchell asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the latest developments regarding the proposed decentralisation of his Department to County Mayo; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47120/09]
The Deputy will be aware that under the decentralisation programme, my Department's headquarters are scheduled to relocate to Charlestown, County Mayo. To date 100 staff have moved to temporary accommodation in Tubbercurry, County Sligo.
In light of budgetary constraints and affordability issues, the Minister for Finance has decided to defer proceeding with permanent accommodation in Charlestown at this time. This location, along with four other deferred projects, will be considered as part of the overall review of the decentralisation programme in 2011.
I call Deputy Ring who has one minute.
You time it, Chairman, the timer will time it. When does the Minister expect——
I ask the Deputy to withdraw that remark.
What remark?
The Deputy made a suggestion that an official in this Chamber was timing it.
You said "he will time it."
I am timing it here and have a clock in front of me. The Deputy made a derogatory remark against a member of staff and I ask him to withdraw it now.
I will not withdraw it now.
Would the Deputy please withdraw it?
I will not withdraw it because I did not make any derogatory remark.
You did.
No, I did not.
You said "he will time it."
You said "he will time it."
I did not.
I said that you had the timer.
I said that I had the time here.
Yes. May I ask the question? When does the Minister expect to make a final decision on decentralisation? Will it ever happen? Is the OPW planning to delay indefinitely? Regardless of the OPW decision, does the Minister have a preferred site? What is the up-to-date position on Kiltimagh and Charlestown? Is the Minister concerned the move will proceed? Are the finances in place?
As the Deputy knows the decision to decentralise was made and the initial proposal was to locate at Knock Airport. The Government proceeded to acquire a site and sought planning permission which was granted by Mayo County Council. A sole person, Mr. Sweetman, who lives here in Dublin, as he is perfectly entitled to do, objected to An Bord Pleanála and in a decision that surprised me, An Bord Pleanála overturned the granting of planning permission. One of the reasons it gave was that there was not enough public transport. I can never get my head around how that could be the case at an airport, but so be it. At the time, back in 2008, the Government considered that decision and as the Deputy is aware the Government very quickly made a decision later in 2008 — I believe it was in October — to acquire a site in Charlestown. A site has been located in Charlestown. Following that a group from Kiltimagh proposed all sorts of buildings for us. That delayed us for another year and on it goes. The Deputy keeps asking me the questions and I keep saying we are looking at it.
I can tell the Deputy today that unfortunately or fortunately, the alternative building in Kiltimagh was also considered by the OPW and was found to be unsuitable, so we have lost a year. Unfortunately, I do not know what mí-ádh is on us because no sooner have we cleared the Kiltimagh proposal off the playing pitch than we have a problem in funding it in 2010 because the OPW's decentralisation capital budget has been cut back. While I have the decision to decentralise to Charlestown and I have a site that has been acquired, owing to all the delays — mostly third-party delays — unfortunately we cannot proceed at this point.
However, I encourage the Deputy to look to his colleague Deputy McGinley, who was rightly very persistent in pursuing me on the decentralisation of Foras na Gaeilge to Gaoth Dobhair. Many times over the years I believe Deputy McGinley thought we would never get there. However, we got the good news recently that this decentralisation is now proceeding and with much persistence and difficulty we are overcoming the problems. No doubt we will also overcome the problems with Charlestown. I am sure the people of Tubbercurry are delighted tonight. There are 91 civil servants located in a building in Tubbercurry and I am told it is doing considerable good for the town.
Is the Minister saying Kiltimagh is off the pitch and that he does not have funding to do anything with the site he has in Charlestown?
The Deputy has got it in one. If Kiltimagh had not been on the pitch, we would have the building half built by now.
So there is no decentralisation.
It is worth going back over the record. Decentralisation is about people. We promised that 140 staff would go to Knock Airport. We decentralised 100 to Tubbercurry and we have 91 located there. We promised ten staff to the Department's office in Na Forbacha and that decentralisation is complete. We promised 40 staff of Pobail to Clifden. We had 25 there and I believe the number is now 20. We promised 30 staff of Foras na Gaeilge to Gaoth Dobhair. That is a North-South body with a lot of difficulties. There are five definites and eight possibles; depending on who gets the job, up to 13 will be going there. We have proceeded with all elements of decentralisation promised in 2003, but what we have not got is a permanent building.
On a point of order, I wish to put on the record that everybody here this evening went over their time and the Acting Chairman had no problem with it. The only one with whom he had a problem was me. It was the same in the committee.
I am sorry; what did the Deputy say?
I said that the Acting Chairman had no problem with anyone else going over their time this evening. He let the two Ministers and all the other speakers exceed their time. The only person with whom he had a problem, in terms of timekeeping, was me.
I disagree with the Deputy.
Of course the Acting Chairman disagrees. He did the same in the committee, but we had a great committee until they took him out of the Chair.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.
