Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Dec 2012

Vol. 786 No. 3

Order of Business

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 16, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services, Votes 25 and 39 (back from committee); No. 5, Social Welfare Bill 2012 - Committee and Remaining Stages (resumed); No. a1, Credit Union Bill 2012 - Amendments from the Seanad; and No. 6, Equal Status (Amendment) Bill 2012 - Order for Second Stage and Second and Subsequent Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Oral Questions; No. 16 shall be decided without debate, Votes 25 and 39 shall be moved together and shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; Committee and Remaining Stages of No. 5 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 2 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social Protection, and the sitting thereupon shall be suspended until 3 p.m.; the proceedings on No. a1 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6.30 p.m. and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance; Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 6 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: the proceedings on the Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, the opening speeches of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time, shall not exceed 10 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes, and such Members may share their time, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice and Equality and the order shall resume thereafter with Topical Issues and Oral Questions; and the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 6 p.m., and at 10.30 a.m. on that day there shall be an Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26, subject to the proceedings comprehended by paragraph 2 and 3 of that Standing Order, not exceeding 20 minutes.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are six proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 5.45 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of Oral Questions agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 16, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services, Votes 25 and 39 (back from committee), without debate agreed to?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is not agreed. I understand this proposal relates to the Supplementary Estimate for health. We were informed last week that the Government proposes to make, in a full year, over €1 billion in further cuts to the health service. None of what is involved in this regard has been set out in any detail. There is speculation in today's newspapers about cancellation of routine surgeries. We can only read about these matters in the media. It is most unacceptable that a Supplementary Estimate relating to health should be put through on the nod without scrutiny or debate, particularly in circumstances in which the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, and the Government have failed spectacularly to set out exactly how they intend to make the savings that are required.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I agree 100% with Deputy McDonald. We made the point last week that €1 billion worth of Supplementary Estimates have been put through the House with no discussion during plenary session. It is evident that last year's health Estimate was both fraudulent and flawed.

Deputy Derek Nolan

At least it was not corrupt.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It was entirely corrupt.

Deputy Arthur Spring

It was not fraudulent.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Yes, it was fraudulent.

Deputy Arthur Spring

It is great to hear the brown envelope boys informing us about corruption.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Deputy Spring had better suck it up, because that is what happened.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Micheál Martin

The point is that last year's health Estimate contained figures which no one had any intention of ever realising. Those figures related to drug pricing, the income from private health insurance - which has disappeared from this year's budget - and agency nursing, in respect of which a 50% cut was proposed. They were included in last year's health Estimate but nothing was done until August when cuts were made in respect of personal assistant services for people in independent living and savage cuts were introduced in the context of home help hours.

Nothing was done until August when there were cuts to the provision for personal assistants, which enables people with disabilities to live independently, and savage cuts to home help hours. These cuts were made because of the fraudulent nature of the health Estimates. That is the reason the Supplementary Estimate is required and there is a need for a debate. I, therefore, ask the Tánaiste to provide the House with an opportunity to have a meaningful debate on the health Estimate, in particular.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I refer to the budget overruns and the extra cuts required as a result a few months ago. They included very significant cuts to home help hours and to the provision for personal assistants for those with disabilities. We do not know the details of further cuts amounting to €780 million due to be made as part of the budget. The Government has put a spin on the fact that extra money is being provided, while covering over the fact that more than €750 million will be taken from the health budget. At the very least, given the great anxiety caused as a result of making the extra cuts amounting to €130 million, we need to scrutinise the Supplementary Estimates in order that we understand the implications they will have in the delivery of health services.

The Tánaiste

I agree that the Estimates should be scrutinised. They were referred to a committee which considered them. There was ample opportunity at the committee for Members of the House to scrutinise them.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I was at that committee and there was very little time. It was not the Chairman's fault, but no answers were given.

The Tánaiste

I understand there was not even a vote on the Estimates at the committee. If Members do not do their work at the committee which is the place in which the Estimates are examined-----

Deputy Billy Kelleher

I was at that committee.

The Tánaiste

-----there is not much point in grandstanding here on them when the matter is brought before the House. The Estimates were agreed to at the committee without a vote.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

It is an absolute disgrace. The Tánaiste is misleading the Chamber about what happened when the Estimates were discussed in the committee room. I was there, as were other Members. The Tánaiste refuses to have a debate on the Estimates.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat? I must put the question.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 16 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 83; Níl, 44.

Tá

• Bannon, James.
• Barry, Tom.
• Breen, Pat.
• Burton, Joan.
• Butler, Ray.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Carey, Joe.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Conlan, Seán.
• Connaughton, Paul J.
• Conway, Ciara.
• Coonan, Noel.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Costello, Joe.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• Daly, Jim.
• Deasy, John.
• Deering, Pat.
• Doherty, Regina.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Dowds, Robert.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Fitzgerald, Frances.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Hannigan, Dominic.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Harris, Simon.
• Hayes, Brian.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Humphreys, Kevin.
• Keaveney, Colm.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• Lynch, Ciarán.
• Lyons, John.
• McCarthy, Michael.
• McEntee, Shane.
• McHugh, Joe.
• McLoughlin, Tony.
• McNamara, Michael.
• Maloney, Eamonn.
• Mathews, Peter.
• Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Nash, Gerald.
• Neville, Dan.
• Nolan, Derek.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Mahony, John.
• O'Reilly, Joe.
• Perry, John.
• Phelan, Ann.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Reilly, James.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Brendan.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Varadkar, Leo.
• Wall, Jack.
• Walsh, Brian.
• White, Alex.

Níl

• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Browne, John.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Collins, Joan.
• Collins, Niall.
• Colreavy, Michael.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Daly, Clare.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Stephen S.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Halligan, John.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Lowry, Michael.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Nulty, Patrick.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O'Brien, Jonathan.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Sullivan, Maureen.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Ross, Shane.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Troy, Robert.
• Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Seán Ó Fearghaíl and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 5, Committee and Remaining Stages of the Social Welfare Bill 2012, agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

It is not agreed. We oppose the proposal as it makes a farce of the House. It is now almost 11.30 a.m., yet the proposal is to ram through and guillotine Committee and Remaining Stages of the Social Welfare Bill by 2.30 p.m. This allows but two and a half hours for meaningful discussion on the cut to the respite care grant, which is having a heavy impact, the cut to child benefit and the removal of the PRSI exemption. With regard to the removal of the PRSI exemption, a person earning €25,000 will be hit by a 36% increase while a person on €175,000 will be hit by a 3% increase. How can that be fair? We will have no chance to discuss that at all. There will be no chance to discuss the cuts to the jobseeker's benefit, lone parent allowance and farm assist payment. The cut to the latter benefit is very serious for many farmers on the farm assist scheme across the country.

My point is that all of these measures have not yet been discussed on Committee Stage.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The proposal before the House is that every one of these items should be subject to meaningful discussion. These are the issues about which people outside the House are most concerned right now. They are the issues on which Labour Party and Fine Gael Deputies have been suggesting counter-proposals and alternatives in the media.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

They were caused by Fianna Fáil.

Deputy Micheál Martin

They were telling their Ministers they wanted the proposed measures changed in favour of alternatives. Nobody is getting an opportunity in this House to discuss the measures.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I ask for brief contributions.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Let me make this point, because it goes to the heart of what this House is meant to be about.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

If the Deputy had a heart-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

If Deputy Durkan had a head, he would be dangerous.

Deputy Micheál Martin

People came into government saying there would be a democratic revolution, no less. That is what the Tánaiste said.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Could we have order? Only brief contributions are allowed. We are not discussing the detail. I ask Deputy Martin to conclude.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The reason this is happening is that the Government does not want a discussion on these items.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Nor does Deputy Martin.

Deputy Micheál Martin

It does not want the Dáil to have any meaningful discussion, cut by cut. It wants to suppress dissent in its own ranks and ram the legislation through as quickly as it possibly can without regard to the public, who would actually like to hear from Deputies on the cuts. The public will not get that chance.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Let us have order, please. I call Deputy Mary Lou McDonald.

Deputy Brian Hayes

The stage is Deputy McDonald's.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

We, too, object to the guillotining of this very important debate. It is obviously the tactic of the Government to rush these matters through the Dáil to spare the blushes of the Labour Party, in particular, and those of Fine Gael Members with a conscience who might feel some discomfort. It is unacceptable-----

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----that cuts to carers, parents and children would be rushed through in such a glib and a cynical fashion. That is what the Members opposite all stand accused of now - complete and utter cynicism.

I know the Tánaiste is not going to change his mind on the guillotining of the debate because God forbid some of his people, in particular, might think better of what they are about to do. He should allow a full and frank debate on this. These cuts will hurt people and damage their standard of living and their lives. It is only two weeks to Christmas and this is the Christmas gift from this awful Government-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

You have cancelled Christmas.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----to carers, women and mothers.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy. I call Deputy Boyd Barrett.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

We object to the guillotining of the debate and ask the Tánaiste to reconsider it.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Earlier the Tánaiste rightly or wrongly ridiculed some of the Opposition for not fully scrutinising the supplementary health budget at the health committee, and I was not at the health committee, and now-----

Deputy Robert Dowds

You did not call for a vote.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

Does the Deputy have to call a vote to close hospitals or do you understand anything? You are a pity.

Deputy James Bannon

Billy was caught napping.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please. Deputies, could we have less cross-fire and allow Deputy Boyd Barrett to proceed?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. In his comments criticising the Opposition for the points they made, the Tánaiste said Deputies should do their job in scrutinising legislation and yet he is denying Deputies in this House the opportunity to scrutinise fully this legislation. That is as clear as day.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

He has done a U-turn.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

With the time the Tánaiste has allowed for the debate and the guillotine that will be imposed on it, we simply will not get to discuss some of the most substantive issues-----

Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor

The Deputy is wasting time.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

-----in this Bill that will affect the lives of struggling families, families affected by disability, children and women. That is an affront to democracy. It is an affront to the Tánaiste's promises for a new type of politics. It gives an opportunity, as we saw last night, for the Minister to filibuster on less important issues, to talk down the clock in order that we do not get to the substantial issues. The Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, can smile-----

Deputy Brian Hayes

I am looking at the clock. It is the Deputy's clock.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

-----wryly all he likes, the truth is-----

Deputy Brian Hayes

The Deputy is talking down the clock.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

-----from the moment the Government imposed the guillotine on the debate it became impossible to have a serious debate on the amendments that have been put forward-----

Deputy Brian Hayes

The Deputy does not want a serious debate.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

-----which could obviate the need to impose these brutal cuts.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

We have proposed alternative PRSI measures, fair measures, which would take the burden off people on low and middle incomes, off the unemployed and so on.

Deputy Brian Hayes

Keep filibustering.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Boyd Barrett, we are not debating the Bill now.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I ask the Tánaiste to lift the guillotine on the debate and allow it to take place.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call the Tánaiste to reply.

The Tánaiste

We provided additional time yesterday but the Opposition used it up in political gamesmanship. We provided an additional sitting on Friday last and there were not enough Opposition speakers to keep it going.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please. Allow the Tánaiste to conclude.

The Tánaiste

We provided for an additional day's sitting this week on Monday and it had to be cancelled because the Opposition could not fulfil it.

Deputy Micheál Martin

That is irrelevant. That is a red herring.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

That is outrageous.

The Tánaiste

There was a period of time yesterday evening in the course of the debate when there was no Fianna Fáil Member in the House.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

We took up our allocation.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

We took up our entire allocation.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste

The Members opposite should not be looking for additional time-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

That is ráiméis.

The Tánaiste

-----when they cannot fulfil the obligation. This is great for a grandstand on the Order of Business.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

There is no grandstanding------

The Tánaiste

The Opposition keeps looking for extra time and it does not fulfil it.

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

That is outrageous. The Tánaiste should be ashamed of himself. He calls himself a democrat.

A Deputy

You were not here.

The Tánaiste

Where was the Deputy on Friday? Where was he on Monday?

Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly

The Tánaiste should be ashamed of himself.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please. The Tánaiste to conclude.

The Tánaiste

I am responding to the issues that were raised.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Ask the troika can we have time for the debate.

The Tánaiste

The Opposition keeps asking for additional time in the House and when we provide additional time the Opposition does not come in and use it.

(Interruptions).

The Tánaiste

You just made a big fuss about the health Estimate and you did not even vote on it at committee.

Deputy Micheál Martin

On a point of Order-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am about to put the question.

Deputy Micheál Martin

On a point of order-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I did not see the Deputy.

Deputy Micheál Martin

The Tánaiste has seriously misled the House in what will go down-----

Deputy Brian Hayes

That is not a point of order.

Deputy Micheál Martin

-----as one of the most cynical, dishonest remarks he has made. Our party participated fully in the debate last evening. What everybody in this House wants is more time to discuss the Social Welfare Bill. Do not throw in any more red herrings or comments about other debates last Friday or Monday. It is dishonest and cynical and the Tánaiste's credibility is in shreds given the contempt in which he is holding and treating this House. It is contemptuous.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Thank you Deputy.

Deputy Micheál Martin

With all that has gone on here about democratic reform, the Tánaiste meant nothing of it.

Deputy Brian Hayes

What an actor.

Deputy Micheál Martin

It has been politically fraudulent behaviour by the Tánaiste for the last couple of years. He is a political fraud.

Deputy Frank Feighan

Why was the Deputy not like that with Bertie-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

You closed Roscommon hospital.

Deputy Frank Feighan

Everything was "Yes Bertie, No Bertie"-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The Deputy stayed on the train and it had stopped.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 5 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 84; Níl, 46.

Tá

• Bannon, James.
• Barry, Tom.
• Breen, Pat.
• Burton, Joan.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Carey, Joe.
• Coffey, Paudie.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Conlan, Seán.
• Connaughton, Paul J..
• Conway, Ciara.
• Coonan, Noel.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Costello, Joe.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• Daly, Jim.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Deering, Pat.
• Doherty, Regina.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Dowds, Robert.
• Durkan, Bernard J..
• English, Damien.
• Farrell, Alan.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Fitzgerald, Frances.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Hannigan, Dominic.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Harris, Simon.
• Hayes, Brian.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Humphreys, Kevin.
• Keating, Derek.
• Keaveney, Colm.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• Lynch, Ciarán.
• Lyons, John.
• Maloney, Eamonn.
• Mathews, Peter.
• McCarthy, Michael.
• McEntee, Shane.
• McHugh, Joe.
• McLoughlin, Tony.
• McNamara, Michael.
• Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Nash, Gerald.
• Neville, Dan.
• Nolan, Derek.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Mahony, John.
• O'Reilly, Joe.
• Perry, John.
• Phelan, Ann.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Brendan.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Varadkar, Leo.
• Wall, Jack.
• Walsh, Brian.
• White, Alex.

Níl

• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Broughan, Thomas P..
• Browne, John.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Collins, Joan.
• Collins, Niall.
• Colreavy, Michael.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Daly, Clare.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Stephen S..
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Flanagan, Luke 'Ming'.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Halligan, John.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Martin, Micheál.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Nulty, Patrick.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O'Brien, Jonathan.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Sullivan, Maureen.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Ross, Shane.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Troy, Robert.
• Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Seán Ó Fearghaíl and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a1 agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

No. The House is being treated in an appalling manner. There is no doubt what the dominant question of the week is. It should be the Social Welfare Bill. In a constructive manner, I suggest the Credit Union Bill and the Equal Status (Amendment) Bill be put back to next week. Having Question Time this evening at 8.45 p.m. is farcical.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

In the Deputy's time we would have finished today and gone away on our holidays.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Deputy Paul Kehoe would have been the first out the door back then.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

This shows the Government's arrogance.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

In Deputy Micheál Martin's time we would have finished today.

Deputy Micheál Martin

No. There was many a time when the Chief Whip was given extra hours for debates when he was in opposition.

Deputy Paul Kehoe

Check the record.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Pity Deputy Micheál Martin did not spend as much time debating when he was in government.

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Micheál Martin

We are fundamentally opposed to the entire schedule. Having Question Time at 8.45 p.m. is ridiculous. It is an appalling organisation of the business of the House. The only issue that matters for the people is the Social Welfare Bill. People would logically think the House would be given a reasonable timeframe to discuss the measures included in that Bill. That is all we are asking for on this side of the House. We are looking for a reasonable amount of time to discuss, amendment by amendment, the issues to do with child benefit.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

That matter was decided by the Whips.

Deputy Micheál Martin

Will the Deputy stop acting the bully, as he does all the time here? He is at it all the time. He does not run the House.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

I am terrified.

Deputy Micheál Martin

I make a plea to the Tánaiste to reorganise the schedule to have the Social Welfare Bill as the main item for debate for the remainder of the day.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

We want to help Government backbenchers.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Mattie McGrath wants to raise a point of order.

Deputies

Hurray.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On a point of order, I think the Tánaiste has misinformed the House. I was here last Friday when the Government Whip said there would be no sitting on the following Monday. He accused the Opposition, but it was he who cancelled the sitting. The Tánaiste should correct the record.

Deputy Pat Rabbitte

It is like an audition for a pantomime.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The Minister would have the lead role in it.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

The points have largely been made. However, I make one last appeal to the Tánaiste not to play the political games that he accuses us of playing when, in fact, he is playing them.

Deputy Martin Heydon

The Deputy plays them all the time.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It was the Government's decision to allocate 20 hours to the Savita Halappanavar debate.

Deputy Noel Harrington

The Deputy is wrong.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

That side of the House needs a new Whip.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

That was not asked for on this side of the House. It is now apparent that it was a cynical manoeuvre on the Government's part to truncate the time allowed to debate the budget and the Social Welfare Bill.

Deputy Emmet Stagg

It was agreed to by the Whips, including the Deputy's Whip.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

All we are asking for is for the Government to adjust the Order of Business to allow sufficient time to discuss the specific provisions included in this Bill and the amendments submitted by the Opposition in order that we have an opportunity to scrutinise all aspects of the Bill as we are supposed and obliged to do in the House. The Government is preventing us from doing this.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I remind the House that we are discussing the proposal for dealing with the Credit Union Bill 2012.

The Tánaiste

This is about the arrangements for dealing with the Credit Union Bill. It involves the amendments made to the Bill in the Seanad in which seven amendments were made at the request of Fianna Fáil.

Deputy Brian Hayes

And Sinn Féin.

The Tánaiste

The amendments are being brought before the House as we are required to do.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

We can deal with them next week.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We will sit next Monday.

Deputy Sandra McLellan

We are happy to deal with them next week.

Deputy Brian Hayes

They were the Opposition's ideas.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

It is the ordering of business with which we have an issue.

The Tánaiste

The debate arranged for last Friday and Monday was on the issue of the A,B and C report. Several weeks ago Members, including some of those who have just spoken, told us how important it was to have a reasoned debate on the matter. We complied with that request.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

We wanted the Government to pass legislation on the matter.

The Tánaiste

What we are getting is classic Fianna Fáil hypocrisy. This is the party that cut €936 from child benefit in its budgets, €850 from jobseeker's payments-----

Deputy Timmy Dooley

Why does the Tánaiste not extend the time allowed to discuss the budget?

Deputy Billy Kelleher

If the news is so good, why can we not debate the budget?

Deputy Barry Cowen

Ours was the party that increased benefits.

Deputy Micheál Martin

We are only debating this issue until 2 p.m.

The Tánaiste

Fianna Fáil took €850 from carer's allowance. It even cut the blind pension.

Deputy Barry Cowen

We want a debate. Go back to North Korea and to your roots.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Will the Tánaiste sit down?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Order, please.

The Tánaiste

Fianna Fáil Members are now making complaints about a budget that is fair and reasonable. Can I make one request of Sinn Féin? Please, do not come here and talk about conscience. It is in no position to talk about it.

(Interruptions).

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. a1 be agreed to," put and declared carried.

Deputy Billy Kelleher

We have learned one thing anyway - big majorities make one arrogant.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 6 agreed to?

Deputy Micheál Martin

No. We are not agreeing to anything today. The Tánaiste can play politics and all the games he wants, but the bottom line is that we have until 2 p.m. to debate the Social Welfare Bill. There is no urgency attached to dealing with the Bill. We can deal with it next week. Instead of dealing with the Equal Status (Amendment) Bill, we could use the time allowed to discuss the Social Welfare Bill. It is that simple. The Tánaiste did not respond to that request in his last contribution.

There is an opportunity for the Tánaiste to respond in a meaningful and constructive way. Let us move the Equal Status (Amendment) Bill back until next week and deal with the Social Welfare Bill in its place.

The Tánaiste

There is an urgency with this Bill. There is a decision of the Court of Justice of the EU which means that this matter has to be put right by 21 December.

Deputy Jonathan O'Brien

By next week.

Deputy Micheál Martin

What about next week?

The Tánaiste

The Bill is in the House today and will be in the Seanad next week.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 6 be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 84; Níl, 43.

Tá

• Bannon, James.
• Barry, Tom.
• Breen, Pat.
• Burton, Joan.
• Butler, Ray.
• Buttimer, Jerry.
• Byrne, Catherine.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Carey, Joe.
• Coffey, Paudie.
• Conaghan, Michael.
• Conlan, Seán.
• Connaughton, Paul J.
• Conway, Ciara.
• Coonan, Noel.
• Corcoran Kennedy, Marcella.
• Costello, Joe.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Creed, Michael.
• Daly, Jim.
• Deasy, John.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Deering, Pat.
• Doherty, Regina.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Dowds, Robert.
• Doyle, Andrew.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Feighan, Frank.
• Fitzgerald, Frances.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Hannigan, Dominic.
• Harrington, Noel.
• Harris, Simon.
• Hayes, Brian.
• Hayes, Tom.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Hogan, Phil.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Humphreys, Kevin.
• Keating, Derek.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Seán.
• Kyne, Seán.
• Lawlor, Anthony.
• Lyons, John.
• McCarthy, Michael.
• McEntee, Shane.
• McHugh, Joe.
• McLoughlin, Tony.
• McNamara, Michael.
• Maloney, Eamonn.
• Mathews, Peter.
• Mitchell O'Connor, Mary.
• Mulherin, Michelle.
• Murphy, Dara.
• Nash, Gerald.
• Neville, Dan.
• Nolan, Derek.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Mahony, John.
• O'Reilly, Joe.
• Perry, John.
• Phelan, Ann.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Ring, Michael.
• Ryan, Brendan.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Spring, Arthur.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Tuffy, Joanna.
• Twomey, Liam.
• Varadkar, Leo.
• Wall, Jack.
• Walsh, Brian.
• White, Alex.

Níl

• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Broughan, Thomas P.
• Browne, John.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Collins, Joan.
• Collins, Niall.
• Colreavy, Michael.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Daly, Clare.
• Doherty, Pearse.
• Donnelly, Stephen S.
• Dooley, Timmy.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Flanagan, Luke 'Ming'.
• Fleming, Tom.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Halligan, John.
• Healy, Seamus.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kirk, Seamus.
• Lowry, Michael.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Finian.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McLellan, Sandra.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• O'Brien, Jonathan.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Sullivan, Maureen.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Ross, Shane.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Troy, Robert.
• Wallace, Mick.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Paul Kehoe and Emmet Stagg; Níl, Deputies Seán Ó Fearghaíl and Aengus Ó Snodaigh.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil tomorrow agreed to?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is not agreed. However, I am not going to call a vote on it so Deputies can relax. I want to make the point-----

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Can we have order, please?

(Interruptions).

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I believe it would be better to order tomorrow's business tomorrow. We will have legislation coming forward in respect of the property tax, a tax on the family home, and as with the social welfare legislation we should not rush that through the House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We will have an Order of Business tomorrow.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Can we order the business then?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We have to order the business today.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Why?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In order to sit tomorrow. That is my understanding.

Deputy Micheál Martin

It will allow us to sit tomorrow. It is in accordance with Standing Orders.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It will allow us to sit tomorrow. Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil tomorrow agreed to? Agreed.