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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 2 Feb 2017

Vol. 937 No. 2

Topical Issue Debate

I thank Deputies Niamh Smyth, Cahill and Ferris for their patience. I also thank the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne, who has been here for some minutes and who will reply to the first two matters. The Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, will reply to the third. I call Deputy Niamh Smyth. The Deputy has four minutes to make her case.

Maternity Services Provision

I welcome the opportunity to raise this very important issue regarding the 20-week anomaly scan at Cavan General Hospital. I have submitted numerous parliamentary questions in the past eight months and I have been getting mixed messages from the Health Service Executive, HSE, on this issue. I was first led to believe that it had been actively worked on for Cavan General Hospital and that it was the aim of the HSE to provide this essential scan to pregnant women in Cavan, Monaghan and across the region. We then heard that the equipment was in place in the hospital but that the management is unable to fill the vacancies with the required expertise. I have now been informed that scans will be provided for within the RCSI hospital group because staffing cannot be secured to have them carried out at Cavan General Hospital. That is cold comfort to expectant mothers in Cavan and Monaghan.

The hiring of professionals across all departments within the HSE appears to be a recurring problem. One must ask why that is the case. Is it just an excuse to get out of the original commitments to provide this anomaly scan in Cavan General Hospital and force pregnant women to travel up to two hours away to have the scan they need? Why should women in Cavan and Monaghan, and across the general area, not have this scan made available to them? I have to say they are being treated differently and discriminated against, and we are back to the same old story of only looking after those living in the big cities.

Unfortunately, too many harrowing cases have been reported in recent years regarding these scans. We had one only this week in County Cork. I do not know the reason the HSE is not listening to the women who have been crying and concerned about this issue. Why will it not accept and implement the recommendations of previous cases taken against the HSE? When something goes wrong during pregnancy or, even worse, when there is a fatality, it has a devastating impact on the families involved and on the staff in hospitals. To hear that this anomaly scan, if available, could prevent and change the outcome in some way adds further insult to injury. To the families that have been bereaved, it is incomprehensible.

Having a scan available to expectant mothers at any other site apart from Cavan General Hospital is not good enough. It is not enough to cherry-pick certain areas and only provide in the big cities. To further compound the families' grief, misinformation has been given to the media by the professionals leading the public, and me, to believe that the scan would be made available in the hospital. That is simply not true.

I requested a meeting with the Minister, Deputy Harris, regarding one particular family, the Whelans, who have suffered terribly. In requesting the meeting for the Whelan family, the Minister's answer, which I will paraphrase, was that it would be better for them to meet the HSE. That is not what the Whelan family want to hear. They want to meet with the Minister to express their concerns and to ensure that this is implemented in Cavan General Hospital.

When and why has the plan changed from providing the scan at the hospital to providing a regional maternal foetal medicine service with the RCSI group? Why does the HSE think this model would give greater recruitment success? Why has the HSE given up so easily on requiring the staff of the hospital to provide the scan, particularly when we believe all the equipment necessary for the scan is in the hospital?

Will the Minister of State outline what are the long-term plans of the Department and the HSE for the unit in Cavan General Hospital? It is a fabulous department which just requires this one scan, which has been recommended.

I apologise for arriving late and delaying proceedings. Unfortunately, the Minister, Deputy Harris, cannot be here. I thank Deputy Smyth for raising this matter and giving me the opportunity to update the House on the position on foetal anomaly scanning at Cavan General Hospital. The Minister, Deputy Harris, is advised that while the provision of routine foetal anomaly scanning for all pregnant women has been a key target for Cavan General Hospital, despite every effort having been made the hospital has not been successful, to date, in recruiting the necessary specialists required to provide a routine 20-week anomaly scanning service. However, the Minister is advised that those maternity hospitals and units currently providing anomaly scans will accept referrals from other maternity units, if requested. This occurs where the medical team in the referring maternity unit considers that an anomaly scan is clinically indicated.

The Minister, Deputy Harris, accepts that the provision of anomaly scanning is not uniform throughout the country but we are working to address this. The national maternity strategy is very clear that all women must have equal access to standardised ultrasound services. The strategy will be implemented on a phased basis over the coming years and this work will be led by the HSE national women and infants health programme. The programme was recently established, and the Minister anticipates it will drive improvements in maternity service delivery. On behalf of the Minister, I am pleased to confirm a programme director was seconded into position on 3 January. A clinical director has recently been appointed and will take up position on 1 March.

The Minister has been assured the issue of anomaly scanning is a priority for the programme. As a first step, clinical guidance on routine detailed scans at 20 weeks will be developed. In the meantime, the programme will continue to work with the hospital groups to assist in increasing access to anomaly scans for those units with limited availability. Of course, one of the current challenges to increase access to anomaly scans is the recruitment of ultrasonographers. In this context, it is expected the establishment of maternity networks across hospital groups will assist in the development of a sustainable service model that ensures that all women in each hospital group can access anomaly scans.

The maternity strategy recognises that smaller maternity services cannot, and should not, operate in isolation as stand-alone entities. Those units cannot sustain the breadth and depth of clinical services that the populations they serve require without formal links to larger units. Accordingly, maternity networks are being established across hospital groups. The Deputy can be assured the Government is fully committed to the progressive development of our maternity services. Last year saw the publication of Ireland's first ever national maternity strategy as well as the HSE's national standards for bereavement care following pregnancy loss and perinatal death and HIQA's national standards for safer better maternity services. In addition, each of our 19 maternity units now publishes a maternity patient safety statement on a monthly basis. I am sure the House will agree these developments represent key building blocks to enable us to provide a consistently safe and high quality maternity service.

It is a fundamental piece of equipment and a fundamental service in any maternity ward. I am really not sure from the Minister of State's reply whether she has stated staff will circulate between various hospitals or there will be a designated 20-week anomaly scan in Cavan General Hospital and patients will not just be referred to the Rotunda or other hospitals.

I wrote to the Minister, Deputy Harris, to ask him whether he would meet the Whelan family. At the inquest into Conor Whelan's death, it was part of the recommendations the 20-week anomaly scan would be provided in the hospital so any fatal foetal abnormalities and any abnormalities in an unborn child would be recognised in the early days. Is the Minister agreeable to meeting the Whelan family? Is the Minister of State telling me we will have a designated 20-week anomaly scan in Cavan General Hospital?

I acknowledge the concerns the Deputy has raised. As I stated, despite every effort being made, the hospital has not been successful to date in recruiting the necessary specialist required to provide a routine 20-week anomaly scan service. I will certainly bring back the Deputy's concerns about this. I will also bring back her concerns in regard to the Minister meeting the Whelan family. As a mother and grandmother, I know pregnancy is a very stressful time for the woman and the man in such cases and a 20-week scan gives some assurance to expectant parents that everything is okay. It is unfortunate the problem seems very much to be finding the proper specialist to provide the anomaly scan service. I will bring the Deputy's concerns to the Minister, particularly in regard to meeting the Whelan family.

I really appreciate that.

General Practitioner Services Provision

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for selecting this Topical Issue. The availability of GPs in rural and urban areas is becoming a huge issue in my county. At this stage, five or six positions are being left vacant because there are no applicants. Unless this situation is addressed fairly rapidly it will become a crisis for our communities. In recent months, an urban practice in my town has advertised a vacancy through the HSE three times, but no applicant has come forward for the position. The situation is grave and we must act now to avoid a crisis. We must attract young graduates to GP practices. Unfortunately at present this is not happening. Young graduates are deciding to emigrate, leaving us with a scarcity of doctors entering the system.

When FEMPI was introduced during the financial crisis doctors were hit more than most as 38% was taken from the fees they charged. Taking into account the salaries paid to nurses and other staff in GP practices, they suffered a 45% cut on what they receive from the HSE. This must be reversed and improvements must be made in the payment structure. With regard to the pensions received by doctors, they qualify for €17,000 under the GMS pension. This is a very small pension and it must be examined. It pales in comparison to what is available to managers in the HSE.

There has been a focus on building primary care centres but the reality is that most GPs in rural areas and small urban towns have their own facilities. Pouring money into primary care centres if we do not have GPs available is like putting the cart before the horse. I appeal to the HSE to examine each area before it builds primary care centres. Doctors with their own facilities should be allowed to use them and the extra resources should be put into trying to attract young doctors into rural areas.

Another anomaly is that doctors in a county such as mine must pay for 24-7 cover. They must contribute quite significantly to services such as Shannondoc.

In large urban areas, however, there is no charge on GPs for 24-7 cover. This is an anomaly that needs to be addressed urgently.

Training places need to be increased because there are not enough for GPs at the moment. When GPs graduate it should be mandatory for them to spend a number of years working in this country. We have a very sought after education system for medical doctors but when they qualify a lot of them head to other shores to practise and the country gets no benefit from the investment that has been put in.

Locums are another huge issue for rural practices. The tax treatment of locums has to be looked at because it is virtually impossible for a rural practitioner to get a locum to help him out in his practice. One can expect no man or woman to work 365 days a year so it should be made attractive for locums to work in rural and small urban practices.

Community care teams have to be properly funded as these can take a good bit of pressure off local GPs, whether it is through the physio calling to a person's house or community care teams calling to dress a person's wound.

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. At the outset I would like to assure the House that the Government is committed to enhancing primary health care services, including GP services. The development of primary care is central to the Government’s objective to deliver a high quality, integrated and cost-effective health service and to reduce the numbers coming into hospitals. The goal is to deliver better care close to home in communities across the country and move away from a system which is too dependent on hospital care. In a fully developed primary care system, 90% to 95% of people’s day-to-day health and social care needs can be met in the primary care setting. The winter period is one where particular pressures occur in the health service. For this reason the Minister for Health ensured that considerable planning was undertaken by the HSE ahead of the peak period. A sum of €40 million was provided to assist in the management of winter pressures and to manage the expected winter surge in demand for hospital care in an integrated way across primary, acute and social care. As part of the winter initiative, South Tipperary General Hospital has been identified as one of the nine focus sites experiencing the greatest challenges in terms of ED pressures. Consequently, under the initiative additional measures have been put in place to support the hospital in responding to surges in demand for emergency care over the busy winter period. These include actions to improve early discharging; increase access to community intervention teams, CITs; and increased access to diagnostics. The winter initiative has allowed for the provision of three additional home care packages per week at the hospital until the end of February 2017.

The winter initiative also recognises that there are specific challenges in relation to capacity at the hospital. The HSE is working towards providing extra surge capacity through the fit out of additional space on the first floor of the hospital to alleviate pressure on the ED. This extra capacity is expected to be available from early May and could be used to accommodate space for up to 11 beds. I acknowledge, on my behalf and that of the Minister for Health, the tremendous contribution of all the front-line staff to meeting the heavy demand on our health service during the peak winter period, both in hospitals and in communities. The management by GPs of seasonal pressures, which include many patients presenting with exacerbations of chronic conditions, is an example of how primary care plays a critical role in our health care system. In fact, GPs were at work over the Christmas and New Year period dealing with a substantial workload while many other people were able to enjoy a few extra days off.

It is important to recognise the commitment of GPs to ensuring a responsive, accessible and high quality service to patients on a year-round basis. Recent data from the HSE indicate that in 2016 there was an increase of around 5% in emergency department attendances nationally. In addition, early January 2017 saw continued significant pressure on EDs due to high demand, increased incidence of flu and respiratory illnesses across the country, which have been disproportionately affecting at-risk groups such as the elderly, as well as ongoing bed capacity restraints due to staff shortages.

GP out-of-hours services also experienced large volumes of patients in attendance. I understand that the number of contacts with these services increased by 13% in December compared to the previous month. In fact, there were over 1 million contacts with GP out-of-hours services in 2016, an 11% increase over 2015. The Government is committed to the continued development of GP capacity and in 2017 the training intake will increase for the second successive year, from 172 to 187 places. Further efforts undertaken in recent years to increase the number of practising GPs include changes to the entry and retirement provisions for GPs under the GMS scheme, as well as the introduction of an enhanced supports package for rural GP practices.

Despite the Minister's reply, I do not believe the scarcity of GPs is being addressed. We spoke about health services the other night and about giving people the option of being cared for in their own homes. The preferred option of most people in their old age would be to be looked after in the security and comfort of their own home but if we do not have a proper GP service in rural Ireland that cannot happen. I can give examples of seven different locations in my county which are now without a GP. This is a career choice for young graduates coming out of medical school but it is not financially viable for them to go into practice. A doctor who practised for 15 years in a rural town in Tipperary has decided to emigrate to Canada and it is obvious that there is something seriously wrong with the way GPs are funded by the HSE.

The issue has to be addressed as a matter of urgency. A lot of the infrastructure in rural Ireland is under huge pressure but if we lose our GP infrastructure it will be a death knell for people. We just cannot do without it. I appeal to the Minister to examine the pay structure but other things can be done to alleviate some of the pressure on GPs. Paperwork is a huge burden and if a group of practices were given a project manager to look after the paperwork for them it would be a great help to them. It has to be recognised that rural practitioners are different from practitioners in the large urban centres and have to be catered for accordingly.

There has been an increase in home care packages. I am a Dublin Deputy but I recognise that the GP service in rural Ireland is in crisis and needs to be supported in more ways. The Deputy referred to emigration but a lot of young people, whether nurses or GPs, want to travel and experience other types of hospital care across the world. It would be unfair to prevent young people from leaving the country once they had finished their training. There was huge difficulty over Christmas, even in Dublin, over GP call-outs but there are commitments by this Government. In respect of new GP contracts, the Minister is very clear that future contractual teams should enjoy the support of a broad community of GPs and be informed by the input of key stakeholders.

To achieve this the Minister has put in place a process that will honour the framework agreement of 2014 with the INMO and include formal consultations between the State and the NAGP. The Minister is pleased that this arrangement has commenced and hopes for constructive and positive engagement. Something is happening, therefore, but, unfortunately, it is probably not happening for many small rural communities. We hope, however, that in the coming months there will be an increase in GP services across the country, particularly locum services. Nonetheless, I will bring the concerns the Deputy has raised to the attention of the Minister and ensure he receives a response from him.

Respite Care Services

In the past two weeks I have been contacted by several elderly parents about the lack of respite care services in north Kerry. The best way I can articulate this matter is by reading a letter I received last weekend from one mother. She says:

I am writing this letter as a very upset and concerned parent of a daughter who is attending the Kerry Parents and Friends Association in Listowel. We were informed last week that they are reducing respite in north Kerry in our facility, The Haven. There is little respite now as beds are being used for residential clients with high medical needs. A house was purchased last June in the Kilmeany, Kilmorna, Listowel area for respite. My understanding is that this is a four-bedroom house. We expected this to be up and running within three months, as the urgency of lack of respite was already causing problems. The house still remains empty and we are now heading into February. Funding for staff was promised by the HSE but none has been released. After a phone call to the head of the HSE disability services, we have been informed that there are no funds available, so the house remains empty. Once again we are badly hung out to dry regarding our sons, daughters and siblings. We have to join together now and let our voices of protest be heard once again. We have done it before and we can do it again. There are parents and clients at present who have never had respite. We are all getting older and we should definitely not be having this worry now - too scared of getting sick or old. We need to contact anyone and everyone we can - TDs, councillors, the HSE and Ministers - to tell them in no uncertain terms that we and our sons, daughters and siblings are entitled to respite. It is not a luxury.

I was also contacted by another woman and her husband. He is 75 years old and she is 70. They have a 46 year old son with autism and other intellectual disabilities. He is over 6 ft tall and a big and powerful man. Their difficulties are exacerbated because of their age and his physical strength. They have no access to respite care services. They are at their wits' end in trying to access some service. I am asking the Minister of State to make staff available at the four-bedroom house in the Kilmeany, Kilmorna and Listowel area to provide respite care for four people at any one time. Will he make this happen in order that some of those in desperate need will have some source of comfort?

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue and giving me the opportunity to outline the position on services for people with disabilities who need respite care support in County Kerry. I know that he has been a long-time, strong campaigner for people with disabilities.

The Government is committed to providing services and supports for people with disabilities which will empower them to live independent lives, provide them with greater independence in accessing the services they choose and enhance their ability to tailor the supports required to meet their needs and plan their lives. I am acutely aware of the changing needs of people with disabilities and understand many people require additional or alternative services. The provision of respite care services has come under increased pressure in the past couple of years. There is an increase in the number of children and adults seeking access to respite care, while there are increasing levels of changing needs owing to an increase in the age of people with a disability, as noted by the Deputy in the two cases he mentioned.

The way in which residential respite care services are provided has also changed as agencies comply with HIQA standards and the national policy on congregated settings. This affects the capacity of services in County Kerry to respond to the growing need for respite care. In some instances this means that beds are no longer available. For example, vacated beds for residents who go home at weekends or for holidays can no longer be used to provide respite care. This is a major problem. Currently, there are 12 beds available in County Kerry to provide respite care services for adults with an intellectual disability. These beds are provided by St. John of God and the Kerry Parents and Friends Association. On average, 426 nights of respite care are provided in County Kerry each month for children and adults with an intellectual disability or autism. A further 52 days, on average, of day respite care are also provided each month. The HSE acknowledges the current level of provision does not adequately meet the identified needs in the area. I totally accept that reality, but we have to do something about it.

The expansion of respite care services for people with disabilities is recognised as being essential to enable families to continue to care for individuals with disabilities and, in particular, those with significant disabilities. The HSE supported the Kerry Parents and Friends Association in 2016 by providing capital funding to purchase a house in Listowel to be used as a respite care facility. Unfortunately, no revenue funding is currently available to progress the opening of the facility. By the way, I do not accept this. The Kerry Parents and Friends Association recently reported that, owing to HIQA compliance requirements, it has had to reduce the number of respite beds available, leading to a decrease in respite care services for some. The need for increased respite care and residential facilities in County Kerry is acknowledged. The HSE continues to work with agencies to explore various ways of responding to meet this need in line with the budget available. Where a residential service is not available, the HSE endeavours to work with families and service providers to increase the support available through the provision of home support hours and day services. Of course, we have to act on and do something about this matter. I will make it a priority issue in the coming weeks.

I thank the Minister of State for his response and welcome his comment that he intends to do something about the matter in the weeks ahead. Can he tell me how many beds were closed by HIQA? If the four bedrooms were available, would they meet the shortfall? Will the savings made by HIQA in reducing bed numbers be used to provide a respite care service in the house purchased by the HSE? The Minister of State needs to make this issue a priority, although I know that he also has to deal with priority matters raised by other Deputies concerning respite care services for parents and their children with intellectual disabilities. The people to whom I am talking are coming to the end of their lives. As I said, one of them is 75 years old. They have looked after their children and watched them grow into adulthood. The respite care service they received was of some comfort to them.

The fact that it is no longer available is causing huge alarm and fear. As they come towards the end of their lives, their fear as to who will look after their loved ones cannot be stressed enough. I hope the Minister of State will make this a priority, as he says. I look forward to seeing the outcome of that.

I thank Deputy Ferris again for raising the issue. As far as I am aware, the figure he is looking for is between four and six beds. His proposals on the funding, costs and savings are something we should look at clearly. In the negotiations for this year's social care and disability service plan, the overall budget was set at €1.688 billion, which is an increase of €96.3 million or 6% on last year. I am going to go back to the people involved in the distribution of funding. Under that budget, we managed to secure 8,400 residential places, 182 respite overnights, 1.4 million PA hours for 2,400 people, 24,800 day places, 41,000 day respite sessions and €2.7 million for home support hours for 7,500 people. A service is there with a budget of €16.2 million to deal with emergency cases and within that sum there is funding for the new home supports in home respite for emergency cases. That is the approach I will be taking.

We need to ensure that when we provide funding for a house like the one Deputy Ferris mentioned in Listowel, we have the resources to provide the service. I will continue to pursue additional funds to increase the level of respite provision in Kerry. The HSE will continue to work with the service providers to explore all options regarding the provision of respite for all the adults in Kerry. Where residential respite is not available, the HSE and I will endeavour to work with those families and service providers to increase the support available through home support hours and day services. Of course, I will go back and make Deputy Ferris's issue a priority. As far as I am concerned, it is unacceptable.

School Accommodation Provision

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this very important Topical Issue tonight. It is one on which I am sure the Ceann Comhairle will agree with me. There are three schools in the Curragh Military Camp. The Curragh post-primary school is a Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board school with approximately 170 pupils and to say the school building is Dickensian would be a fair description. It has great staff and pupils but they are operating in a building that has not been upgraded since the time the British were around. Across the road is the Curragh girls' primary school with a little over 100 pupils. Again, it is housed in a very old building with significant problems. A summer works application is in for roof repairs, but since it was made problems have emerged with heating and plumbing in the school. Down the road a little further but still within the camp is the Curragh boys' national school with 89 to 90 pupils. That school has made another summer works application to address a long-standing problem with its plumbing which is causing significant problems.

I called out to visit the principal of the Curragh boys' school last year. It happened to be just after the Minister's predecessor had opened the Educate Together primary school in Kildare town. Within the space of an hour and crossing the short distance from Kildare town to the Curragh Camp, I went from a brand new school with the best of provision for the children of Kildare town to a school with a bucket in the middle of the floor under a leaking roof. I saw a very big difference between the haves and the have-nots. It is incumbent on us to address the structural deficits in the three schools. There is a common denominator here. All the schools have great staff and pupils but an excellent education is being provided in sub-standard accommodation within the Curragh Camp, which is under the remit of the Department of Defence.

I want the Department of Education and Skills to develop a vision for the future provision of education in this area. I want the Department of Education and Skills to share my vision for a new school campus at primary and secondary level on a greenfield site in the Curragh. I have had initial discussions with my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Defence, Deputy Paul Kehoe, and flagged with him the deficit that is there and the need for an upgrade. This comes under his remit because there are ambitious plans for the Curragh Camp. The peace and leadership institute will be a fantastic development in the coming years as a result of significant investment by the taxpayer via the Department of Defence in the Curragh Camp itself. The freeing up of the three school buildings might well suit the Department of Defence and encourage it to offer us a greenfield site somewhere else. It could be argued that it is not really appropriate to have school provision at the heart of a military camp.

It would be much easier to talk to the Minister for Education and Skills and his officials about the provision of a new school building in this area if there was a greenfield site to start with. As such, I ask him to help me with discussions and that his officials would engage directly with their counterparts in the Department of Defence to talk about these issues and see if a solution can be found. To develop a primary and post-primary campus would address three schools that are currently in substandard accommodation and it would also address the very significant capacity issues for the greater Newbridge area, which I have raised with the Minister previously.

I thank Deputy Martin Heydon for raising this issue. What he has stated there goes considerably beyond his originally tabled issue which was on the improvement of the school facilities in the Curragh area. My reply, which deals with summer works programme approvals and applications, is available to him and is being circulated. However, he has raised a much wider issue.

The Department approaches a proposal like this from the perspective that the patrons are in a position to develop it. No such proposal has been put forward by the patrons at this stage. If an amalgamation of the primary schools was being considered, there would have to be considerable consultation. In terms of the development of new schools, my Department is obliged to consider not only the individual school, conditions and enrolment in respect of which the application is made but also the broader context of schools in the area. While recognising that the Deputy and Ceann Comhairle represent an area where there is considerable and growing pressure on schools, I have not seen a proposal from these schools and my Department has not had a chance to consider any such campus against the context of other provision and needs in the area. As such, I am not in a position to respond in detail to what the Deputy put forward. Clearly, if there was a desire on the part of the patrons to put forward such a proposal, the Department would discuss it against the context of the planning model we have to apply.

As the Deputy knows, the demand for new places is running at about 20,000 net additional places every year. That is occupying more than 80% of our budget, which places a significant constraint on the Department in terms of considering any application. It has to apply the slide rule to determine how we meet our first responsibilities to ensure there are seats for everyone who wants to attend school. There is no doubt that if the Deputy feels there is an interest in the community in developing this proposal and that the capacity exists to do some sort of swap, I will get my officials to discuss it with the appropriate patrons and consider it in the context of other capital demands.

I thank the Minister for his detailed response and for outlining a roadmap for us.

I can assure the Minister that all three boards of management are very keen to address the structural deficits. I will take the Minister up on the process he outlined and talk to him about the matter. The two summer works applications that have been submitted for the two primary schools are a matter of great urgency and I hope they get the utmost consideration in the short term.

The Minister referred to capacity and the planning of new schools. I welcome his announcement last weekend of engagement between Kildare and Wicklow ETB and Educate Together on a possible partnership. This comes after a very long campaign, as the Ceann Comhairle is aware, by the South Kildare Educate Together campaign. The Minister's announcement did not refer to a specific school. Locally, the ETB would have argued that St. Conleth's was the preferred option. I ask that the Department maintain an open mind on a possible partnership as those discussions continue.

The Educate Together campaign in south Kildare had a two-pronged approach. It fought for increased provision of choice in the south Kildare area, which is needed and desired by a number of parents and constituents. The second element concerned the pressure on space in Kildare, in particular the Newbridge area at second level where there is a lot of pressure in terms of capacity. There are three schools listed on the building programme which require extensions, namely, the Patrician Secondary School in Newbridge, Cross and Passion College in Kilcullen and at Athy Community College. Spaces in those schools were needed yesterday. There is significant pressure and I want the projects to be progressed as quickly as possible.

A new school building on the Curragh site would address some of the capacity issues in Newbridge town. It would deal with all of the feeder schools in the rural hinterland. In the overall context of the pressure on school spaces in south Kildare, a new school on the Curragh campus would fit. I look forward to working with the Minister and his officials on the matter.

I am very aware of the issue. The Deputy, the Ceann Comhairle and other Deputies in the area have raised the concerns of parents with me, such as their desire to have new choices. We have outlined that there is a planning process within the Department which examines 314 different planning areas and the demographic pressures within them. Each planning area encompasses a significant range of schools.

I can understand the need for change. As the Deputy knows, there is a commitment in the programme for Government to advance the range of choice and ensure more schools emerge. I am very enthusiastic about the idea of Educate Together and local ETBs getting together in some form of collaborative patronage. It would open up new options.

I am confined to the planning approach because the Department's funding is under pressure and we have to make sure that we are systematic in the way we approach different parts of the country and are as fair as possible to everyone. I am very keen to accommodate, where possible, the needs of parents, but I have to work within the constraints of the budget and planning process. I am happy to work with representatives in the area.

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