Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 27 Oct 2022

Vol. 1028 No. 5

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Rail Network

Deputy Brian Leddin

It seems to me that we are on the cusp of changing how we do transport in this country. For 60 years, the rail system has been starved of investment. Unlike other countries, Ireland did not see a future for rail. It perceived that the future would involve a transport system based on private cars and, to some extent, city and intercity buses.

In recent years, the Government has invested in rail, and Irish Rail is building up its capacity to develop a pipeline of new projects. One of the critical elements of expanding and turning around the six-decade decline of rail in this country is rail freight. I was very happy to see some clearance on the Limerick to Foynes line happening in the past week or two. This 41-km-long line was built in just nine months in the mid-19th century, and I wonder how they did that. It is good to see the line being cleared now. All going well, it will be reopened for freight purposes at least. We would like to see it opened to passenger rail standard and the building of a number of stations along the line in the coming years in places such as Raheen, Patrickswell, Adare, Askeaton and, indeed, in Foynes. It also complements the ambition to develop our west coast renewable-energy resources. It is a good project that chimes very well with Government policy.

Another project the Minister is well aware of is the western rail corridor, which has been talked about for a long time. Phase 1 of the corridor was the Limerick to Galway leg. Phase 2 goes north from Galway towards Tuam and Claremorris, connecting to Westport and Castlebar. I believe there is significant potential for rail freight in the west of Ireland. This project would support rail freight and the development of the rail network. I was in Tuam last Saturday. I took the train as far as Galway and got the bus to Tuam, where about 250 or 300 people, from all parties and from none, attended the gathering. Various presenters made the case for the reopening of the western rail corridor. A critical piece of that argument is rail freight. Since then, I have been speaking to business owners in the west who said they would use the rail network. They would have a clear use for rail freight if the infrastructure existed. This is a critically important project but there is a wider question about the future of rail freight in this country. It seems to me that there is a lot we can do to shift much of the freight, which is carried using road haulage, onto the rail system for transit within the country and for export.

Minister for Transport (Deputy Eamon Ryan)

I thank the Deputy for the chance to answer the question. It is timely due to last week’s meeting about the issue of the western corridor and the significant development of the clearance of some of the Foynes line, which I hope is a harbinger of a significant revival, not just of rail freight in our country but for the city of Limerick and surrounding region. The Shannon area task force will come forward with an important report. I hope and expect that it will support this type of development and capture the sense of where our future is going.

This is important for a variety of reason, which I will set out. First, the national planning framework is correct. We need better balanced regional development. We are lopsided on the east coast. While I am a Dublin Deputy and a Dublin citizen, Dublin will not thrive if Ireland is imbalanced as a country. We need to develop our other cities so there is counterbalance, which will help solve our housing problems, as well as bringing a whole range of difference benefits.

In order to do that, we need to make sure that our cities outside Dublin have the right transport infrastructure. The all-island rail review, which Arup is assisting with, is due to be completed shortly. It will come forward with significant recommendation which will also steer us in this direction.

It is true that rail freight has been run down strategically and deliberately over many years. It will be difficult to reverse that. There are major advantages to the road haulage system, investment in the road network in the intervening period and the fact that distances in Ireland are relatively short. We face disadvantages and challenges, but if we think about where this country is going in a zero-carbon future, I believe there is a role for the return of rail freight at scale in a variety of different ways.

Shannon Foynes is a critical element of that because with the development of the offshore wind industry we discussed earlier, it will come onshore in the likes of Shannon Foynes. That is likely to be the location place of new industries which use that clean power and converted hydrogen and ammonia. It makes sense for us to have the best transport infrastructure to port locations where this development is going to take place. That is why the Shannon Foynes line is important. We need to be quick and give a clear signal in that regard by reopening the line.

It is not just about Shannon Foynes. The Deputy is correct. We have to consider the entire rail network. I wish to draw the attention of the Deputy further south-east. There is a closed rail line that could be reopened in order to connect Wexford and Waterford ports. The Waterford to Limerick line is currently underutilised. We have to ask ourselves whether we abandon or restore and revive it. I believe the latter is where we should go.

Taking such a perspective on what might be called an Atlantic rail corridor, running from Waterford to Limerick and up the west coast, with spurs to Shannon Foynes and Cork Harbour, would connect our deep water ports where the new offshore wind energy industries are going to develop. It also makes sense in that regard to continue the line by connecting from Athenry to Claremorris and Ballina and all points in between. That would start to bring us an integrated network.

In terms of where we might locate inland rail freight ports, we could have load-on load-off container terminals with rail connections to the quayside transporting those containers to inland rail marshalling yards. To my mind, that would be a very viable rail freight opportunity for this country. There would be lower carbon emissions and it would be less expensive in a variety of different ways. It would be a real signal that the benefit can be not only a freight line, but as we start to revive and build up a real capability it has the potential to be a residential or metropolitan rail system for the Limerick region. It would be part of four lines that are currently underutilised. It would turn the city's development around and help it to thrive.

Deputy Brian Leddin

I thank the Minister for the answer. I am happy to hear him expand on the vision for rail freight and for rail in general. It is a very coherent and important vision for us to follow. It chimes incredibly well with the policy agenda and ambition of the Government. It is generally shared these days across the political spectrum.

I was happy to hear the Minister mention the potential of the south east. Our colleague, Deputy Ó Cathasaigh, will certainly welcome the Minister's words on the Wexford to Waterford line.

I want to mention the situation at Dublin Port. I understand there is a plan to move the rail freight operation back from the quay. This could be a retrograde step. A number of people have expressed concerns about it and have said it could impact the future of rail freight in this country if that happens. All our ports should have enabling rail right up to the quayside so that there can be a load-on load-off facility. That is true of Dublin Port. Rosslare is a similar example, where rail was pulled back from the quayside there a number of years ago.

I am happy to hear the Minister mention the Limerick network. Limerick city is unique in the Irish context as a regional city because it has four rail lines going in and out of it. We need to think about Limerick differently to how we think about Waterford, Cork and Galway because it has infrastructure that if we were to build it from scratch would cost billions of euro and probably would not develop. The infrastructure is in place; we need to upgrade and develop it and see it for the asset it is. I look forward to seeing the Moyross train station built under the Pathfinder project in the next number of years. It should be the first of many new suburban rail stations around Limerick and Clare.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

With regard to Dublin Port, there are different views. Dublin Port has argued that it could not run the rail lines which it currently does quayside but instead shunt containers by truck from the port to the Sheriff Street area. Irish Rail has argued that has huge disadvantages and needs the area for its operations, and that once there are double or several movements things become very expensive. I tend to agree with Irish Rail.

We are going to go with railhead to the quayside in Cork, Waterford, Wexford and Shannon Foynes, why would we exclude the largest port in the State from a similar strategy and create, in effect, a disconnected network? We will have to wait and see what the Arup report said. As the Deputy knows, it comprises independent engineers. Let us see what it delivers.

Over 90% of the roll-on roll-off haulage in Ireland comes through Dublin Port and is driven through the port tunnel. I was on the M50 on the morning in question, and it was gridlocked. There was an accident and I was on the road for an hour with trucks sitting in the same gridlock. The benefit of having a balanced system with the development of Limerick, Cork, Waterford and Wexford, as well as other ports, is that we can get that balance in the system and are not putting all of the pressure on Dublin.

With regard to Limerick and investment in rail, it will take time to turn the city back to how things worked throughout its history. For five decades, we have ignored rail lines and run them down. As soon as we opened the Ennis line, it exceeded all expectations. People want to use public transport, but we have not provided it. We have had too much emphasis on other methods of transport. We have to view this as a long-term investment.

The State failed to develop Limerick sufficiently well. The Buchanan report made recommendations in the 1960s. We have nowhere near the population Limerick was expected to have. When we invest in rail lines we have to think in terms of 50 and 100 years. We need to think of a Limerick twice its size, which is what it should be, in order to be the capital of the mid-west and continue as a successful manufacturing, trading and education centre. In order to do that, we need to invest and think big and at scale. The four lines need to be metropolitan services with electric battery trains running at a regular frequency in order that as the city grows, which it needs to do, it will do so along rail lines rather than along roads. If it grows along roads, not only will that not work for climate, the mathematics will not work. There will be too many cars and gridlock for everyone. By providing rail services, Limerick will survive.

Urban Development

Deputy Dessie Ellis

Finglas has a long history that needs to be told and displayed for all to see. At the heart of Finglas village are the ruins of the old St. Canice's church, with its ancient graveyard beside Barrack Lane. Despite being at the heart of a busy modern suburban town, framed by housing estates and a dual carriageway leading to the M50, the old church and its grounds and graveyards are full of trees, greenery and birdsong and a haven for wild animals. The old church offers visitors a surprisingly quiet and tranquil place of repose.

Entering the grounds of the old church is like stepping back in time. Around and within the ruins of the church are various types of ancient burial places, including a burial vault and table and box tombs. The old graves are marked by a variety of grave markers, including headstones, iron crosses and obelisks, many of which are too weathered to be read.

The old church was, according to tradition, built on the site of St. Canice's monastery, which itself was built in the 10th and 11th centuries. Records show that the church was used in 1657 but it is clear from other records that it was established much earlier than this. There is ample evidence of a Viking site having been established nearby. In fact, the remains of an adult Viking female were discovered in 2004, along with Viking artefacts that are now on display in the National Museum of Ireland. Located just outside the walls of the graveyard are a number of ancient wells that were buried during the construction of apartments nearby.

Some noted celebrities are buried in the graveyard of the church, including Eliza Wollstonecraft whose niece, Mary Shelley, wrote Frankenstein as well as the graves of bishops and archbishops. A grave of particular interest inside the church mentions Captain Edward Spencer, whose family is buried there and who was related to the Spencers of Althorp through his second wife and thus, is related to Lady Diana Spencer, Princess of Wales.

In addition, the grounds of the church contain the Nethercross from where the barony in which Finglas parish is located gets its name. According to legend, this cross was buried by the parishioners as Cromwellian forces approached the village. The cross remained buried until it was rediscovered by the Reverend Robert Walsh in the early 19th century. It is believed to be approximately 1,000 years old and is the only high cross in Dublin. Unfortunately, the Nethercross is now quite weathered, which makes it difficult to see the intricate carvings that once adorned it. The people of Finglas want the cross preserved and protected in its present location in the graveyard.

A major study of the old church and its grounds was carried out by 7L Architects on behalf of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and Dublin City Council, DCC. A comprehensive report was issued last April which outlined a conservation management plan for the church and grounds. To conserve these magnificent ruins properly, the church needs to be roofed and have its walls completed and the church needs to be returned to public use. A museum to house the history of Finglas and its environs would be a fitting way to preserve our local and national history for future generations.

Minister of State at the Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation (Deputy Damien English)

I will respond on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who could not be here to address the issue.

The National Monuments Service of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage administers the community monuments fund, CMF, through the local authorities. It was established in 2020 under the July jobs stimulus package and had an initial fund of just over €1 million. I am delighted that the grants awarded under this scheme totalled €6 million for 2022, including a grant to St Canice’s, which indicates the success of the fund over the past few years. The community monuments fund invests essential capital in our valuable archaeological heritage and helps owners and custodians of archaeological monuments to safeguard them into the future for the benefit of communities and the public.

Part of this funding is prioritised for local authorities, private owners and custodians and community groups for the care, conservation, maintenance, protection and promotion of archaeological monuments and the provision of any required measures to ensure safe access over the past few years of the Covid pandemic.

The impacts of climate change on our monuments is increasingly evident. With increased weathering and severe climate events, the repair cycle on built heritage is likely to become shorter. Increased maintenance and repair will be key to building resilience in our monuments, to enable them to withstand the effects of a changing environment. The CMF plays a key role in mitigating the effects of climate-related events at our national monuments.

The core aims of this fund are the conservation, maintenance, protection and presentation of archaeological monuments. It enables conservation works to be carried out on monuments which are deemed to be significant and in need of urgent support. It also builds resilience in our monuments to enable them to withstand the effects of climate change and it encourages access to monuments and improves their presentation. In addition, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage encourages projects to incorporate a traditional skills training element.

The community monuments fund has three streams. Stream 1 offers grants aimed at essential repairs and capital works for the conservation and repair of archaeological monuments. Stream 2 offers grants for development of conservation management plans and reports and detailed specification of works that are aimed at identifying measures for conservation of archaeological monuments and improving public access. Stream 3 offers grants for enhancement of access infrastructure and interpretation, including virtually and online, at our archaeological monuments. St. Canice’s graveyard is a national monument in the ownership of the local authority. I am pleased to confirm that it was awarded a grant of just under €30,000 in 2021 and a further award of €85,000 in 2022. It is important that be recognised. I have no doubt an application for further funding will be made in the year ahead.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I know that the graveyard has received funding but the funding is running out and the works are nowhere near satisfactory at present. I appeal to the Minister of State and the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage to talk to DCC about the need for further funding. A substantial amount is needed for this property. If it were not for local people who look after this, such as the Lynch family who have done decades of magnificent work on the graveyard, Finglas tidy towns, volunteers and the Finglas historical society, the graveyard would be far worse off.

I would love for someone to look at this graveyard. The church is a magnificent building that needs to be preserved and in working order for the people. It would work as a museum and would be an ideal place to anchor a museum for the history of the area, not just for the people of Finglas, but for those around. We saw what happened with the Nethercross, which was a very big, symbolic cross at the time Cromwell was coming through Finglas. Residents buried the cross to hide it from him, which shows how important the Nethercross and this building are. The graveyard is steeped in history. One can see it and feel it.

Finglas deserves better. It deserves respect and the church and graveyard deserve to be brought back to life in a meaningful way.

Deputy Damien English

I have no doubt that Finglas should get the respect it deserves. I am glad that the Deputy recognises that funding has been secured. I did not realise that earlier. Some €115,000 was allocated over the past two years to recognise the importance of the monument on which I have no doubt the Deputy wants to build.

The CMF helps to progress heritage projects throughout the country to ensure that heritage is protected as a community asset and made more accessible to complement the work happening in the community. Locals such as the Lynch family are making that happen. It is fitting that the fund is there to support such work. The measure also allows steps to be taken under the climate change action plan with regard to our archaeological heritage and creates employment for many small businesses, skilled conservation specialists and tradespeople involved in heritage-related construction activity.

Significant funding to the tune of €115,000 has been awarded under the CMF for works at St. Canice’s graveyard over the past couple of years. The Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, hopes to announce details of the scheme for 2023 in the coming weeks and departmental officials would be happy to accept an application for funding of further works at St Canice’s. It is important that the application process be tracked.

I express my sincere thanks to the local authority staff, the local community and those in the National Monuments Service, all of whom work diligently to ensure the success of this fund. I encourage all custodians of national monuments to consider putting together applications for the fund for 2023. The Deputy may talk to the committee to make sure it gets ready for the application process that will open in the near future.

Building Regulations

Deputy Martin Browne

I am raising this matter because too many people are falling through the cracks apparent in the national retrofit scheme. In short, it is not working for the people who need it the most and therein lies the problem. I and many colleagues in the House see the homes that need to be made warmer and more energy efficient are being refused the assistance needed because of the nature of the house, the manner in which it was built or certain features that make it ineligible. Ability to pay is another aspect of this but I will leave that until later on.

This issue relates to stone-built structures. There are many such homes, houses and cottages throughout rural Ireland. They were generally built prior to the 1950s and many long before then. They are not that uncommon, yet judging by the response these households have had to their inquiries about retrofits, one would think they were a rare occurrence that never entered the minds of those who developed the scheme. They are generally so old because they were built to last. They were also built to adapt to the heating methods of the time, that is, open fire and back boiler heating. Such homes are usually lived in by elderly people, some parents or grandparents, who have stayed in the family home all their lives. They have been refused the help they need. A householder in my constituency was refused on the basis the works that can be carried out would not get their building up to the regulation required, so they are left at that. They are essentially excluded.

These homes can have very thick walls. I grant that presents its own set of challenges but why was this not planned for when rolling out the scheme? When I raised this via a parliamentary question, I was told these structures were characterised as "traditionally built" buildings and that due to the nature of the mortar used, and issues of vapour trapping and so on, they are more complicated to insulate. That is fair enough but why was this not taken into account when the scheme was being prepared?

If these people are to wait until the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage prepares a new technical guidance document, which is what I have been told, then they are to be put at the back of a very long queue. The scheme has not been well-prepared. It is discriminating against those with meagre means, and sidelines those who do not have the means for a full refit. That is the truth of it. These households typically heat their homes with turf and timber and are now being told that they cannot do that. The Government devised a scheme suited to those with the greatest means and not those in greatest need. Homeowners such as those I mentioned, as well as people living in energy poverty and in greatest need of help, are being left behind by the scheme. What is the Government doing to ensure these households will be attended to when the report is finished and that they will not be left at the back of the queue?

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (Deputy Ossian Smyth)

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue and for giving me the opportunity to give him an update on the Government's supports for home retrofit. In order to hit our targets we need to retrofit the equivalent of 500,000 homes to a building energy rating, BER, of B2 and install 400,000 heat pumps in existing homes to replace older, less efficient heating systems by the end of 2030. This represents about 30% of our housing stock and is among the most ambitious retrofit programmes worldwide.

The national retrofit plan was published last November as part of the climate action plan and it sets out how the Government will deliver these targets. The plan is designed to address barriers to retrofit across four key pillars: driving demand and activity; financing and funding; supply chain, skills and standards; and governance. Recognising that the achievement of our climate action plan targets will require a step-change in the pace and scale of delivery of Ireland's residential retrofit programme, earlier this year the Government approved a package of supports to make it easier and more affordable for homeowners to undertake home energy upgrades, for warmer, healthier and more comfortable homes with lower energy bills. These initiatives have resulted in a significant increase in demand and delivery under Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, schemes.

Older, stone-built homes, by which I mean those generally built until around the 1940s, usually fall into the category of "traditionally built" buildings. Traditionally built homes and buildings are considerably more complex to retrofit. The term "traditionally built" generally refers to those buildings built with solid walls, which often have a lime- or earthen-based render finish. This was the dominant form of building construction in Ireland until the second quarter of the 20th century and includes stone-built dwellings. The primary difference between traditional and modern construction is the way that moisture is managed. Traditional materials and construction techniques allowed for the natural transfer of heat and moisture. Solid masonry walls therefore relied on their thickness to cope with atmospheric moisture by being sufficiently thick that drying out took place before external moisture reached the inside of the building. This means standard retrofit solutions are often not suitable for use with traditional buildings as they can lead to adverse and unintended consequences for the building fabric and the health or well-being of the occupants. Energy-efficiency upgrade solutions appropriate to such materials and methods are needed in these cases. As an example, a stone wall with lime-based mortar will need a lime-based plaster render to remain vapour permeable.

A significant proportion of homes and buildings that will need to be retrofitted fall into this category of "traditionally built". While these homes can be eligible for SEAI support subject to the scheme eligibility criteria and terms and conditions being met, uncertainty about what retrofit treatments are allowable or appropriate has contributed to a limited amount of whole-house energy-efficiency upgrades on these buildings. For example, a householder could get a house's attic insulated but not the walls, if the SEAI terms and conditions cannot be met. Government fully agrees it is essential that we have both the standards and supports in place for the retrofitting of all types of housing to ensure that the principles of universality and fairness underpinning the retrofit plan are met.

As set out in the plan, a new guidance document focused on energy efficiency in traditional buildings is being developed to support the proper upgrading of such buildings. This guidance document draws on expert multidisciplinary advice and expertise and will also include case studies. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage is taking the lead on this project, which will also involve experts from the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and the SEAI. The guidance will show that for many traditional buildings, a BER of B2 or above can often be achieved in a way appropriate to the building. It is hoped the guidance can be completed by the end of the year. Once available it is intended the guidance will form the standard underpinning any SEAI supports for the renovation work of traditional buildings. Any relevant, available SEAI retrofit grants or supports will align with the best practice guidance when it is published.

Deputy Martin Browne

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit. I appreciate the figures the Minister of State just rolled out to me. That is what we get every time we have a Topical Issue debate. I appreciate the Government wants 500,000 homes with a BER of B2 but I am talking about the homes that are generally the ones losing the most heat. They are likely to be occupied by the elderly in our communities who need the retrofitting more than the owners of a mansion down the road who, because they can afford €50,000, can then get another €50,000 from the Government. I am talking about the homes that are being left behind. Sometimes I think the way these schemes are put together has more to do with the need for the Government to look as if it is doing something rather than the plight of people living in these inefficient homes. That is not what this scheme, or any other, should be based on.

The Government often speaks of the importance of our built heritage but that built heritage needs specific measures. The Minister of State mentioned stone walls with lime-based mortar will need a lime-based plaster render - so be it. If that is what it takes then that is what should be done to ensure these homes are brought up a level of efficiency where they are not losing heat. Will the Minster of State review the scheme that has been rolled out and devise a way to implement it such that the scale of work that can be done is not determined by a person's ability to pay but the level of need? As I said, the level of need is high as most of these buildings are cottages in rural areas occupied by elderly people. They have lived all their lives there and these homes are being left behind by this scheme. I therefore ask the Minister of State to revise it.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I will take the Deputy's comments to the Minister and discuss this with him. I take the Deputy's point there is a real problem for these stone houses. As he says, they are likely to be lived in by people who could be in energy poverty, people who are older, people in remote locations in rural areas and so on, and this needs to be addressed. That is why the guidelines are being worked out.

As the Deputy acknowledged, these houses are different and they need different treatment. We need guidance for the people who are carrying out the retrofit work. We had experience a decade ago of retrofit work being done by people without sufficient guidance. They tried to put in the insulation or do the work and we ended up with buildings that did not improve in energy rating.

In this case we have a specific problem about moisture and the risk of it being locked in and houses being damp, and so on. One can insulate very heavily and end up in a situation where one is trapping moisture within a house. That work on the guidance must be done and it is expected it will be complete by the end of the year. I will mention it to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. I accept where the Deputy is coming from on this, though I want him to accept the Government's plan for retrofit allocates the majority of the funding for retrofit of housing to initiatives with zero cost to the homeowner and targeted specifically at people either living in local authority housing or on welfare payments.

The majority of the more than €350 million funding for this year and the more than €500 million for next year will be targeted at people receiving 100% grants. This is an energy poverty measure and it needs to be targeted. One of the primary duties of the Government is to keep people warm in their homes in the winter, particularly those who are having difficulty paying for heating.