Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate – Dáil Éireann (33rd Dáil) – Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Horse Racing Industry

Deputy Paul Murphy

I thank the Minister for taking this Topical Issue matter. We know - and are due to vote on it shortly in this Dáil - that every year, the State gives about €90 million in public funds to the horse and greyhound racing industry. We know that about €70 million of that goes to Horse Racing Ireland, HRI. What is new are the figures. Thanks to an answer to a parliamentary question I tabled, we know how much of that goes to prize money. Some 70% of that €70 million goes to prize money – approximately between €40 million and €45 million. In answers that I have just gotten back from HRI, that compares with about 7% that goes to animal welfare.

In reality, there is a massive transfer of public money to a small number of multimillionaires who get it tax-free and win it in the form of prize money. That is what is happening in black and white. One can look at the most recent HRI factbook for 2021. The top four winners were J.P. McManus, Michael O’Leary, John Magnier and Michael Tabor. They are all multimillionaires and none of them paid tax on that money. If one goes broader than that, the top ten owners won €11.8 million in one year. This money is not going to the poorly paid people within horse racing. It is going to already super-wealthy individuals. One can look at the various races and who is winning. The prize money is concentrated among a small number of people who are already very wealthy.

Compare this amount of money with what is spent on other things. Compare it in terms of sports. I know those people who are winning it and the Minister do not like this comparison. However, the total core funding that Sport Ireland gives out on a yearly basis is €15 million, which is for the GAA, the FAI, the IRFU, Swim Ireland, the Special Olympics, Athletics Ireland, HRI, which even gets a bit of that money, and a range of other organisations. That is €15 million altogether compared with €70 million in public money that goes to the horse racing industry, the vast majority of which is used for prize money that ends up in the hands of already extremely rich people. Compare the €70 million to the half of that that is spent on domestic violence refuge shelters and a similar amount of money that is spent in terms of the National Park and Wildlife Service.

At any time of year and in any given context, it would be unconscionable to have such a giveaway of public money to already extremely rich individuals tax-free. However, to have this continuing at a time of a deep cost-of-living crisis when one in three families is suffering from energy poverty and then, in reality, some of their taxes ending up in the hands of multimillionaires who face no cost-of-living crisis whatsoever, is absolutely scandalous. It is ironic we are having this discussion on the day that the Government launched gambling regulation. Why is the betting duty going to the horse and greyhound racing industry as opposed to tackling problem gambling?

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)

I did not hear the Deputy mention once in his contribution the valuable contribution that the thoroughbred and horse racing sectors make to our national economy or indeed the fact that it supports 29,000 jobs across the country and underpins a thoroughbred industry that has an annual economic impact of €1.84 billion. I did not hear him mention that once and I do not think that is something he is too concerned about either. It is one of the sectors and industries in which Ireland is a true global leader. The broad geographic distribution of this industry contributes to the achievement of more balanced regional economic growth and rural economic activity, providing a wide range of employment and income opportunities from stable staff to trainers to jockeys to breeders and farmers.

The support provided by public funds through investment in the industry has enabled Ireland to develop a world-class reputation for excellence in horse racing and breeding. The Irish thoroughbred breeding industry is extremely competitive at a global level. We are the second largest producer of bloodstock in the world by value sold after the USA. Ireland has the world’s third highest number of thoroughbreds foaled each year after the USA and Australia.

Successive Governments have acknowledged the importance of this industry and supported it. Horse Racing Ireland, established under the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001, a commercial State body, is responsible for overall administration, promotion and development of the industry. The horse and greyhound racing industries receive financial support through the Horse and Greyhound Fund. My Department makes payments through HRI and Rásaíocht Con Éireann.

On the current expenditure allocation, no more than 80% is to be applied to prize money. In 2020, €67 million was allocated to HRI from the fund and €76 million last year. In 2020, €54 million of the HRI allocation was assigned for current expenditure. The total prize money paid out in horse racing for 2020 was some €51.5 million, of which HRI contributed €35 million, or 68%. Private sponsorship of prize money was some €16.3 million, of which racehorse owners themselves contributed some €11.7 million with the balance of private sponsorship contributed by corporate bodies.

The HRI factbook for 2021 shows that there were 394 fixtures, with 8,700 individual runners and 25% of these horses winning at least one race. More than 6,000 of the individual runners won prize money at some stage, which equates to around 69% of individual runners.

We are not outliers in this space. The support provided by public funds through investment in this industry has enabled us to develop a world-class reputation for excellence in horse racing and breeding. Horse racing in other major jurisdictions is also funded by governments, either directly or indirectly. Ireland’s racing industry obviously is in direct competition with Britain, France, Australia, America and Hong Kong, for example. The global nature of the racing and breeding industry means that these countries compete for the same pool of foreign direct investment, which ultimately fuels horses and training and therefore employment. In France, there is approximately €400 million in government support per annum. In Hong Kong, the state supports are approximately €800 million per annum. In Australia, returns to racing differ from state to state, however, in the state of Victoria, for example, this amounted to the equivalent of €251 million in revenue in the years 2020 and 2021.

I have told several Ministers about the state of services for medical cardholders and working people with PRSI contributions. Dental services for medical cardholders are already under significant pressure in all areas. I am now seeing a worrying development that causes me to question the model of contract used.

I am acutely aware of the pressure on dental services for medical cardholders in Carlow because I have been on the phone to dentists in my area asking for help with emergencies and severe cases. Subsidised dental services are currently available to medical cardholders and to qualifying workers who pay PRSI contributions but these services and general medical card and dental services are under significant threat from a recent audit decision by Revenue.

The traditional dental model operating in Ireland, the UK and Europe is that self-employed dentists, known as dental associates, who practise as a joint venture within a group, hold individual contracts with the Department of Health and the Department of Social Protection to provide a range of dental services to the general public on a fee-per-item basis. The contracts are specifically stated contracts for service and are exclusively stated for self-employed contracts.

I am assisting a group operating in Carlow which is concerned about these contracts. The contracts have been in operation and unchanged since 1993, which is almost 30 years ago. They cannot be subcontracted. Dentists who are employees cannot hold or operate these contracts legally in this manner. A recent Revenue decision to categorise these dental associates as employees in a practice in Carlow means the contract with the Department will be illegal. These dentists have paid their own taxes in order to continually hold the dental contracts. Each contract holder must produce an annual tax clearance certificate to the Department that offers the contracts to the dentist. However, Revenue has decided some self-employed dental associates are actually employees and this impacts the group operator, which has now been told these dentists are employees and not self-employed.

Revenue recently decided to recognise the traditional dental model of dental associates, which is dental principal, to be a joint venture with no VAT liability, yet Revenue is now raising assessments against group operators for PAYE and PRSI obligations that should not be there. If Revenue presses the status of dental associates as that of an employee, some dental associates in Ireland will have to resign their current contracts for service with the HSE and the Department of Social Protection, and will not be able to see patients under these schemes. This will lead to an increased crisis of access in the provision of dental services for medical cardholders and also access for PRSI contributors.

Will the Department for Social Protection revisit the current model or impress upon the Department of Finance the need to standardise the approach to the self-employed status of dental associates? As it currently stands, Revenue has opposing views on the matter in two Departments. Audit is one and VAT is the other. If dental associates are pressed to drop services for the PRSI medical cardholders, the loss to the community will be enormous. The Minister of State knows how important these services are. I urge her to speak to officials in the Department of Health and the Department of Finance to regularise the situation to prevent the loss of service to the public.

This matter was brought to my attention by some dentists in Carlow. I want clarification. The biggest issue is that this has not been reviewed in nearly 30 years. We must ensure that medical card patients get to go to the dentist. That is what the system is there for.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Anne Rabbitte)

I thank the Deputy. I am answering this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. The objective for all of us, as public representatives, is at all times to ensure that a person who holds a medical card gets seen to.

The treatment benefit scheme provides dental, optical and medical appliances, comprising hearing aids and specialised contact lenses, to insured workers, self-employed and retired people who satisfy certain PRSI conditions. A person must have paid a specific number of PRSI contributions in the relevant tax year to qualify for treatment benefit. It is also available to the dependent spouse, civil partner or cohabitant of those who qualify. People can avail of a range of treatment either free or part-funded.

Two significant changes to the scheme were introduced by the Government this year. A new grant of €500 towards the cost of wigs and other non-surgical hairpieces was introduced for those who have suffered hair loss due to a cancer or certain types of alopecia, with nearly 900 claims paid since the scheme was introduced in May. The eligibility criteria have changed to reduce the PRSI contributions to people aged 25 to 28, which will benefit almost 80,000 young people.

The treatment benefit dental scheme provides for a free annual dental examination and an annual scale and polish treatment subject to a maximum co-payment by the customer of €15. The scheme is very popular, with 893,000 claims in 2021 at a cost of €53 million. Figures up to the end of September of this year show that 843,000 treatments were claimed which is a 10% increase on claims so far in 2022. Dentists can check a customer's eligibility online and make a claim for payment through the Department's welfare partners interface. Each month dentists are paid for treatments claimed in the previous month.

Currently, the Department pays the dentist a fee of €33 for an examination and €42 towards the cost of cleaning and other treatments. Departmental officials have commenced a review of the fees and part of the process involves examining the current contract to ensure it is fit for purpose and that any changes necessary are put in place. A consultation with the relevant bodies, including the Irish Dental Association, will be undertaken as soon as practicable following consideration of the complexities involved in developing a new contract. Officials hope to be in a position to commence this engagement in the near future.

The Department is aware of the HSE contract with the dentists and will ensure that any new contracts will be mindful of the objective of the national oral health policy. A review of fees in the dental benefit scheme is a priority for the Department and the Department wants to resolve it positively and in a timely manner.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. I welcome that consultation with relevant bodies, including the Irish Dental Association, will be undertaken as soon as possible. During the Covid pandemic, older people and those with medical cards found it hard to get access to their dentist. In fairness to the dentists, they worked extremely hard. Following this consultation, we need to ensure that the most vulnerable people in our communities are looked after. They need to be able to get the full benefit with their medical card and need to be able to access the dentist. The contract that is being changed needs to include all people who are deserving of it. The consultation on the contract with the dentists needs to happen as soon as possible. I and other people want clarification on this as do people with medical cards and those who pay their PRSI contributions. I again thank the Minister of State for her answer.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

The treatment benefit is an important scheme for those who qualify for payment and for practitioners. It is the Department's biggest scheme in terms of claims, with more than 1.4 million claims received in 2021 and a total expenditure of €109 million. So far in 2022 some 1,342,000 claims have been received with a total expenditure of €102 million. The dental benefit scheme is the most popular component of the treatment benefit suite of schemes and, as I said earlier, 843,000 claims were paid this year, an increase of 10% on the previous year, with payments to date this year coming in at €48 million. The treatment benefit complements the HSE system of dental care by providing dental check-ups and a contribution towards scale and polish for eligible customers. Any additional oral healthcare can be co-paid.

I cannot understand how in recent months people with medical cards, particularly in my county of Galway, cannot access a dentist. Last Monday, I was with the Brothers of Charity at an award ceremony and it was the main item on the agenda. It is not the people with medical cards who are the issue here; it is the fact that they cannot get a dentist. Earlier this year, the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, made an additional €10 million available and it did not address the issue. Given that €60 million was underspent last year in dental services, one must question the obligation of the dentists within this and their willingness to come to the table to assist in finding a solution when the most vulnerable who are in pain cannot get assistance. It is beyond comprehension.

Student Accommodation

Deputy Neale Richmond

I appreciate the opportunity to raise this issue this evening. I raise it not just in the context of being a Deputy whose constituency contains the Belfield campus but also because it is of national structural and infrastructural importance. Of course, University College Dublin, UCD, is the largest third-level institution in the State with a student population of over 25,000. While the news that came out earlier in the week that the college authorities have decided they are no longer able to push ahead with 1,200 additional on-campus accommodation spots is extremely disappointing, sadly it is not greatly surprising given that the reason cited for the cancellation or postponement of the project is rising material and labour costs and the difficulty in accessing both those things.

While this is a disappointment and a challenge, I feel there is an opportunity here because the president of the university has indicated it is seeking Government support to get this project back up and running. In other fields where major national infrastructure projects are threatened due to rising costs or lack of labour, the Minister of Public Expenditure and Reform has said the State will intervene and will work with developers and contractors to address those needs. That is a fair assessment and this case comes under that situation.

It is regrettable that the university has stated it needs to ensure that the rents to be charged on campus will cover the costs. We want rents on campus to be charged in a fair and equitable manner, reflecting that the people living in this accommodation are full-time students. These are younger people who may have a part-time job but do not have the means to pay excessive market-based rates. I know those are not necessarily words people are used to hearing coming from my mouth but we are talking about third-level education, involving the training and education of the future engineers and architects who will build the next phase of housing, the doctors and nurses who will staff our health service and even possibly the next generation of Deputies. Who knows what will come out of UCD in the coming years? They need to be able to be educated in a manner where their accommodation needs are not distracting excessively from their studies, which is something that is happening throughout the country at the moment. It has given rise to protests by student unions up and down the country within institutions and on a national level.

We have another exciting opportunity that needs to be taken forward. This was a plan for just 1,200 accommodation units. Given the footprint of the UCD Belfield campus, we all know it has the opportunity to construct large levels of student accommodation. The space is there, the services are there and the transport infrastructure surrounding it is there. There is absolutely no reason we cannot inform UCD that the assistance will be provided on two conditions: that the Government can have a direct say on the rents being charged to students; and that UCD ups its level of ambition to a realistic level that will service not just the needs of UCD but also the needs of the entire State. It can alleviate a great deal of the pressure on the general rental market in Dublin, particularly in the south Dublin area that surrounds the campus.

Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Niall Collins)

I thank Deputy Richmond for raising this matter as it gives me the opportunity to set out for the House the position with regard to UCD's decision. We are very aware of the difficulties faced by students trying to secure accommodation. It is an issue that we are actively pursuing and resolution is a high priority for the Department as a whole.

In September 2021, the Government launched Housing for All, led by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. It set out a series of over 200 actions which will be delivered to address the housing crisis, backed by a transformative budget of €20 billion. Actions 11.5 and 11.6 activate existing planning permissions and set out my Department's responsibilities.

These are to bring forward a range of potential options for State support to assist activation of new, additional, purpose-built student accommodation units and to develop policy and methodology for potential short-term State supports for proposals for the construction of purpose-built student accommodation by higher education institutions to provide additionality for targeted cohorts where planning permission has already been secured. This includes the examination of relevant EU rules together with a borrowing framework and financing options for technological universities.

The cost of construction and the cost of finance are obstacles hindering the HEIs from delivering on-campus accommodation at affordable rents for students. These have also influenced the decision by UCD to postpone the progression of the project at present without significant funding support intervention. My Department is working closely with the HEIs to examine the design specifications and financial modelling for each individual project on a case-by-case basis. Department officials have met with UCD and the Irish Universities Association, IUA, to discuss the projects for UCD's student accommodation. This engagement is ongoing and options are being considered to activate this project.

In October, we updated the Cabinet committee on housing and received support on initial plans for policy development for the provision of student accommodation. We are actively progressing a new policy that bridges the challenges gap between the viability of delivering purpose-built student accommodation and subsequent rental affordability for students. This will include for the first time the State assisting with the cost of building student accommodation beds and unlocking projects which have been postponed in return for the affordable rents for targeted students. Detailed work is currently being advanced with a section dedicated to student accommodation having been established within the Department.

We will also be bringing a memo to Government in late November setting out the short-term activation proposals and the long-term strategic response of the State to the provision of additional affordable student accommodation.

In conclusion, we are finalising a memo to Government at the end of the month for approval on the assessed proposals to facilitate a number of short-term activation options set out earlier. UCD is obviously part of that conversation, as are the University of Limerick, UL, Dublin City University, DCU, NUI Maynooth and others. We also have to be honest that building will take time and we have to examine different options too. We are examining how we can come up with quicker solutions to address the immediate need. We are open to discussion with UCD and any other college that wants to build accommodation. This will be essential if we are to relieve the pressure on the overall housing market and to assist students with the help they need. I would like to thank the Deputy again for raising this matter.

Deputy Neale Richmond

I appreciate the full reply that was given. I would also appreciate the opportunity to speak with the Minister, Deputy Harris, about this. I strongly welcome the consultation that is ongoing between the Department and the various third-level institutions. It is important to recognise the national efforts to address this issue in terms of short-term activation measures. I see UCD being prominent this in this regard. There is also the ability to increase the number of people renting rooms. We also see other third-level institutions pushing ahead with the construction of additional beds. There are 250 in Trinity College Dublin, 255 in University College Cork and 670 in the Leas-Cheann Comhairle’s own constituency in University College Galway.

I mentioned the two opportunities, but I am seeking to conclude my contribution tonight with two asks. I seek urgency from the Department in dealing with this issue overall and in dealing with this issue as it directly affects the State's largest third-level institution. That is important to every factor of our social and economic development. We need to move beyond conversations with the third-level institutions to practical, immediate actions that will see large-scale investment in on-campus accommodation that will match the level of investment and development of so many other on-campus sporting and educational facilities that have been extremely welcome over the last decade.

The other ask is straight to UCD. UCD needs to have the level of ambition that beholds the largest university in the State. I say that not just as a local Deputy for the area but as a proud graduate of UCD who thinks that the university should be leading by example, should not be letting other third-level institutions lead and, most importantly, should do its duty to its students, staff and the people who live in the surrounding areas.

Deputy Niall Collins

I thank the Deputy for his remarks and reassure him that this is a high priority issue for the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, so much so, as I alluded to in my opening remarks, that we now have a section within the Department that is dedicated to working with our HEIs to advance the provision of the much-needed student accommodation. That will be backed up by money. As I said previously, a number of initial projects are being discussed with a range of higher education institutions, including UCD. They all have to be looked at differently because they are not all the same. Different institutions are bringing forward different proposals, some of which are on-campus and some of which are off-campus. Commercial considerations and decisions have to be taken around that.

In relation to our technological universities, it is important to say that we are significantly advancing the commitment to follow through on the decision taken by Government to allow our technological universities to borrow in order to build on-campus, purpose-built student accommodation.

As the Deputy knows, the likes of UCD and the other universities can borrow, and that does not go onto the State’s balance sheet. Yet, for the former institutes of technology, which have now transitioned into the technological universities, that is an issue which has to be changed. In other words, any debt they accrue by providing purpose-built student accommodation will not go onto the State’s balance sheet in terms of the general State debt. To reassure the Deputy, it is a high priority for our Department, for UCD, as the Deputy articulated, as well as for every higher and third-level education institution.

We made significant changes to the rent-a-room scheme in terms of the people who can avail of it. They will not, for example, lose some social welfare or other entitlements if they enter the rent-a-room scheme. They can earn up to €14,000 per annum tax free. It is a huge assistance and benefit to people who are seeking accommodation but also to the incomes of the people who are providing the accommodation. I would encourage more people to engage in it.

Hospital Staff

Deputy Thomas Gould

I raise with the Minister of State the issue of the housekeeping attendance in Cork University Hospital. The pay scales of a number of positions in the hospital have been reviewed. They will see increases in the new year and I welcome that. However, housekeepers are to be excluded from this increase. This is despite Cork University Hospital’s providing housekeeping services 24-7. They are long, hard shifts, often in overcrowded wards where they are surrounded by infectious diseases.

Throughout the Covid-19 crisis, hospitals like Cork University Hospital were kept safe and open thanks to the Trojan work done by these housekeepers and many others. They rose to the challenge during the pandemic when the State and the people needed them most. Even the Minister for Health at the time, Deputy Harris, highlighted the important work of hospital housekeepers when he tweeted, “You are on the frontline and your work is crucial in our national effort against the #coronavirus”.

Covid-19 gave us a valuable insight into the role of those working in hospitals, from porters to kitchen staff to housekeepers, all of whom are essential workers. We value these people and I have no doubt that the Minister of State clapped for them. Yet, rounds of applause do not pay bills. They do not pay people’s rent, mortgage, put fuel in their cars or put food on their tables.

In an article in the Irish Examiner at the height of the pandemic, a housekeeper in Cork University Hospital detailed the work being done within the hospital. Many of these tasks are still being done today post-pandemic. Many of these tasks still need to be done. The levels of cleaning and infection control remain higher than they had been before. We have learned a lot from Covid-19 and many of the lessons are here to stay because they are dealing with Covid-19, MRSA and other infectious diseases. This extra work being done places a heavier burden on the housekeepers who are expected to follow new protocols and to work to a new standard.

That should be reflected in their pay. Unfortunately, the process has concluded, but I ask the Minister of State to include a new pay scale for housekeepers. Let the Trojan essential work that they are doing in hospitals be reflected in their pay.

The problem is that these housekeepers feel undervalued, underpaid and let down. I have spoken to the workers. They are devastated by this decision and are looking for help and support. When the State needed help and support, they were there. Today, a lady told me that, during our darkest hour at the height of the pandemic, housekeepers brought trolleys around to every room to feed patients because hospitals were trying to isolate people and reduce the risk of transmission. Housekeepers have also told me of how they had to go into rooms during the height of the pandemic and try to sterilise them so that more patients could be brought in.

These are decent people. We are talking about 200 workers, who have asked me to bring their case to the Minister of State. I hope she will look on it positively.

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. I am keen to respond as accurately as I can with the knowledge available to me at this time.

It is important to note that any adjustment to pay scales for any public service staff, including housekeeping staff in Cork University Hospital, CUH, can only be done in accordance with public service pay policy. While the need for a review of pay scales is being raised by the Deputy, Department officials are not aware of any outstanding claim in respect of the pay of housekeeping staff in CUH or a corresponding collective claim relating to their pay scales. Under the dispute resolution procedure set out in the current public service agreement, Building Momentum, a minimum six-week period of initial bilateral engagement between the parties to a dispute must take place at a local level. If this is unsuccessful, the issue can be considered by the relevant sectoral oversight body or equivalent forum before processing through the various industrial relations machinery of the State.

Departmental officials have confirmed that this matter has not been raised at the health sector oversight body or any other national industrial relations forum to date. Therefore, I cannot comment on this matter in terms of it being an outstanding claim. I can only engage on the matter from a general pay policy perspective.

Building Momentum was originally to run from 1 January 2021 to 31 December 2022. In acknowledgment of the changes to the underlying assumptions of the agreement in respect of inflation, however, a review of Building Momentum was conducted this summer in accordance with section 5.7 of the agreement. This led to the parties agreeing to an extension of the terms of Building Momentum by 12 months to 31 December 2023.

The original agreement involved two general round pay increases of 1%, which were due on 1 October 2021 and 1 October 2022, along with an additional sectoral bargaining fund to deal with outstanding claims. The extension of Building Momentum has allowed for a further increase in basic salaries of 3%, backdated to 2 February 2022, an increase of 2% from 1 March 2023, and an increase of 1.5% or €750, whichever is the higher, on 1 October 2023. All public servants are entitled to all general round increases, and housekeeping staff will receive them alongside their other public service colleagues.

Regarding addressing any claim relating to pay scales, sectoral bargaining was the only mechanism through which any claim could be progressed within the lifetime of Building Momentum. I am aware that the matter the Deputy has raised may relate to the current job evaluation scheme for support staff, which has been completed by the HSE. This scheme is in its fourth phase and the outcome of the evaluation may impact housekeeping staff, including staff at CUH. The report on the scheme has been shared with the Departments of Health and Public Expenditure and Reform for consideration. Once the HSE receives sanction, it will issue a circular for implementation.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I thank the Minister of State. I recognise her point about the general round of pay increases. She touched on the main issue, that of the job evaluation scheme, which is the least fair aspect. These workers feel that the evaluation has not been fair on them and their work. We all accept that they are front-line workers. They are continuing to do the work they did during the pandemic. For many people, we are in a different place where Covid-19 is concerned, but people working in a hospital, especially in housekeeping, and disinfecting and cleaning rooms, are still doing the same job they did during the height of the pandemic.

Another concern occurred to me when I looked into this matter. Housekeeping staff are being told that, if they move to a different position, they will qualify for the pay increase under the new evaluation scheme. Will this lead to a privatisation or contracting out of housekeeping work once the staff have moved to new roles? I am seeking an assurance from the Minister of State. Staff should not have to move to new roles - that is unfair - but if grocery inflation is, according to RTÉ tonight, running at 13.4% and general inflation is running at 9%, a worker who sees a pay increase elsewhere will feel pressured into moving roles. That is not right. These workers need and deserve a pay increase. If possible, will the Minister of State look into this matter under the evaluation scheme and will she guarantee that these jobs will not be privatised in the long run?

Deputy Anne Rabbitte

I will bring the Deputy's two final points to the Minister for his attention. According to the concluding statement that the Minister has provided, grades that fall into the HSE's support staff category, such as housekeeping staff, have seen an overall increase of between 10.25% and 11.5% in the past four years alone, depending on their point on the scale. These increases have been as a result of the adjustments agreed via public service agreements, including the current public service agreement, Building Momentum. Further increases for these grades have been agreed as part of the extension to the public service agreement, as previously advised. The Department of Health and the HSE are bound by the existing pay agreement, which clearly states that sectoral bargaining is the only mechanism for addressing outstanding claims within the lifetime of the agreement.

If a claim relating to this pay scale exists, I advise the relevant representative bodies to raise it at the appropriate national industrial relations forums and through the necessary local engagement, if that has not already occurred. The matter can progress through the relevant conflict resolution processes.

I will bring both of the Deputy's suggestions to the Minister.

Deputy Thomas Gould

I thank the Minister of State.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 11.19 p.m. go dtí 9.12 a.m., Dé Céadaoin, an 16 Samhain 2022.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.19 p.m. until 9.12 a.m. on Wednesday, 16 November 2022.

Dáil Éireann debate - Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022