Vol. 1029 No. 7
1. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will provide the commitments in the programme for Government under his remit; if each commitment has been met or is in the process of being met; and the estimated timeframe for same in tabular form. [52774/22]
2. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the programme for Government. [54848/22]
3. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the programme for Government. [54851/22]
4. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the programme for Government. [57648/22]
5. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the programme for Government. [57750/22]
6. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will provide a progress report on the programme for Government. [57558/22]
7. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the programme for Government. [57733/22]
8. Deputy Cormac Devlin asked the Taoiseach if he will provide an update on the programme for Government. [57930/22]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 8, inclusive, together.
The Government has been working hard to implement the commitments in the programme for Government, supported through the co-ordinating mechanisms of the Cabinet committee process. The 11 Cabinet committees established by this Government reflect the broad range of policy areas it will work on during its lifetime, as set out in the programme for Government. Cabinet committees meet regularly to continue this work. Strategy statements, which have been prepared by all Departments, reflect the key national priorities as outlined in the programme for Government.
My Department has been helping to progress key programme for Government commitments, including the delivery of the Economic Recovery Plan 2021 and the publication of a progress report in June. The plan focused on driving a sustainable jobs-rich recovery, with significant milestones, and progress achieved in this regard, including in the transition towards a decarbonised and digital economy. Other commitments include establishing a unit in my Department to help to support social dialogue, and driving delivery of our commitments on a shared island, on a whole-of-government basis, through the shared island unit in my Department.
The Sláintecare action plan 2022 was published in June 2022. By the end of June, all 49 deliverables were on track, were progressing with minor challenges, or had been completed. We are developing a well-being framework for Ireland, for which a well-being portal and well-being information hub have been developed. A second report reflecting the outcomes of considerable consultation and ongoing research was published by the Government this year, and a framework and accompanying high-level analysis fed into the budget process this year.
The national marine planning framework was published in June 2021 and the Maritime Area Planning Act was signed into law in December 2021.
The implementation of the Housing for All strategy is driving delivery of key housing-related commitments.
Engagement with European Union leaders to advance a range of high-level objectives in the programme for Government is ongoing, in particular relating to the energy crisis, Brexit, economic issues, external relations and Covid. In addition, we are pursuing a strong, collective response to Russia's war and illegal invasion of Ukraine.
There has been ongoing monitoring and management of the impact of Covid-19 on the provision of both Covid and non-Covid healthcare.
We have been supporting the work of the United Nations through our membership of the UN Security Council.
Oversight of the implementation of A Policing Service for our Future, which is the Government plan to implement the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland, has been ongoing.
Harnessing Digital: The Digital Ireland Framework, which is a high-level framework to position Ireland as a digital leader at the heart of European and global digital developments, was published in February. It sets out a pathway to drive and enable the digital transition across the economy and society.
We have been progressing work on the Government's response to the Future of Media Commission.
Two Citizens' Assemblies - those on gender equality and biodiversity loss - have completed their work. Work is continuing on the Citizens' Assembly on a directly elected mayor for Dublin. Two further assemblies, one dealing with the issue of drug use and the other on the future of education, are under consideration subject to Government decision and Oireachtas approval.
A transitional team has been established in my Department to progress the administrative elements of the establishment of the electoral reform commission, which is anticipated later this year.
The Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act 2021 has been signed into law. The Climate Action Plan 2021, which includes the national retrofit plan, adoption of the carbon budget programme, and agreement of the sectoral emission ceilings, has been published.
An update of the climate action plan will be published before the end of the year. Ensuring progress on implementation of the programme for Government will continue to be a priority across all Departments as well as through the work of the Cabinet committees.
The decision to transfer disability services from the Department of Health to the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth was taken by the Government at the beginning of its term. During questions with the Taoiseach last week my colleague, Deputy Clarke, raised the ongoing delay in transferring these functions to the Department of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. Having expressed his concerns to the relevant Ministers, will the Taoiseach confirm when this transfer of functions will take place? The delay is the cause of significant damage to services. If the transfer is not expedited, this damage will take years to undo because neither Minister can confirm when the workforce strategy planning group will be established or which Department will take the lead on its work. The real-world outcome of the absence of a workforce strategy is the rapid and perhaps irreversible loss of staff to the disability sector. Will the Taoiseach follow up on this matter with the Ministers to clarify when the workforce strategy planning group will be established? The Department of Health has indicated that it will not publish the long-promised disability action plan as it will not be implementing it-----
Thank you, Deputy.
-----and the Department of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, has stated it has no responsibility for the plan.
We are over time.
We all know this will cause considerable issues.
The programme for Government refers to the need for court reform. What action is being taken to prevent judges from engaging in sexual harassment of women who are before them? I have raised multiple times with the Taoiseach the case of Kerry judge, James O'Connor, who used his position to disgustingly prey upon vulnerable women who were before him on multiple occasions. I know at least one of those victims has been doing everything she possibly can to get justice, but the Judicial Council has told her that it cannot deal with the case because of when the incidents happened and because the judge is now retired. She has tried time and again to get the Garda to take this issue seriously, but seemingly with no luck. What is she to do? What actions are being taken by the Government to ensure this sort of thing cannot happen again?
The programme for Government talks about energy poverty and fuel poverty. Is the Taoiseach aware that people who are reliant on district heating systems are paying exorbitant prices, well above the very high prices everyone else is currently paying? While district heating systems are sustainable, they are placing a considerable financial burden on residents. I will give just one example of the exorbitant costs: in one area in my constituency, the residents estimate the cost of taking a shower to be €12.
Jesus.
Households have cut down sharply on the use of hot water and are washing in a basin instead of taking showers. People are seeing considerable increases in their charges and report they have tripled in the course of just one month. District heating systems are being charged commercial rates for gas rather than the residential rates other households pay, because the Government has not regulated this area. Will the Government, as a matter of urgency, introduce regulations to protect households that rely on district heating systems?
A few minutes ago, the Taoiseach told Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan there would be a memo before the Cabinet next week on the issue of a new elective hospital for Cork. The Irish Examiner has reported this morning that the hospital will be sited in Glanmire. Will the Taoiseach confirm that or does he wish to comment on it? Does he expect the Cabinet not just to receive a memo next week, but to sign off on it next week? People are waiting and have been forced to wait for far too long on this issue. If the Cabinet signs off on it next week, will the Taoiseach give us dates for when construction will start, when the hospital will be expected to be open and in operation, and whether the necessary investment to provide good-quality public transport links will be put in place?
I will raise the issue of the Irish Thalidomide Association. I know the Taoiseach has met with the group of thalidomide survivors who are seeking recognition from the State and have a small number of demands. I know the group is very grateful that the Taoiseach met with it last Thursday and that a process is to be established. As colleagues will be aware, I have put down a cross-party motion in collaboration with the Irish Thalidomide Association. I hope a cross-party consensus can be achieved on the type of process to be established and on securing justice for thalidomide survivors. Will the Taoiseach comment on the nature of the process to be established and on how soon we can expect to see details of it?
Deputy Ó Murchú raised the issue of the transfer of the disability section from the Department of Health to the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. The transfer is ongoing but I hope we can bring it to a conclusion very quickly. It has not stopped the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, Deputy Rabbitte, from being very proactive on disability issues more generally. I pay tribute to her in that regard. However, I accept the issue needs to be brought to a conclusion. I have spoken to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform on the detail of issues that have to be ironed out with regard to the transfer of a fairly significant level of services with attendant resources from one Department to another. It is not a simple black-and-white issue but my understanding is we will be in a position to bring it to a conclusion. As I said earlier, the focus has to be on the provision of therapies, for children and young people in particular, through the HSE. That level of integration with the HSE with regard to clinical need will still have to continue. The provision of services, notwithstanding the policy aspect, will be located in the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. The view, historically, given the enormity of health and all the areas with which it has to deal, was that the idea of separating out disability and giving it a stronger focus from a Government perspective would be beneficial in the longer term. That view came from disability service providers and the Oireachtas generally.
Deputy Paul Murphy raised the issue of judicial reform. New systems have been put in place for the disciplining of judges and maintaining of high standards. The systems are not retrospective with regard to judges who have retired. We cannot interfere with the operational decisions of An Garda Síochána at this level. It has to make its judgment in any given situation presented to it. I know the case the Deputy has raised. He legitimately raises the case, which is not satisfactory in any shape or form, but it seems from what the Deputy is saying that the Garda has taken its decision. We cannot interfere in that operationally. However, I hope the new structures that have been put in place will make sure there is a very clear pathway for people to seek to have complaints raised with the Judicial Council and for them to be adjudicated upon in a timely and effective manner.
Deputy Cian O'Callaghan raised the issue of district heating systems. They did not fit neatly into the schemes that were developed, such as the scheme for energy credits. Some people may benefit, depending on their circumstances, from a range of payments we have made through the social protection system which have been quite substantial. I will speak to the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications again on whether something can be done in respect of the costs being incurred by those using district heating and the degree to which they cannot benefit from the schemes we have introduced. I will follow through on that. I am not clear whether regulations can be easily signed with regard to existing legislation or whether it is appropriate to deal with that.
Deputy Barry raised the advocacy of Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan with regard to the elective hospital in Cork. I think Deputy Barry would be the first to acknowledge the proactive work of Deputy O'Sullivan in advancing the cause of an elective hospital and its location in Glanmire. The Government will take a decision next week when the memo comes to the Cabinet. I have been a strong advocate for this. We have taken very strong measures to make sure this project is progressed because it has been hanging around for too long.
There was an announcement of a second hospital five or six years ago but little happened. I am taking this by the scruff of the neck and saying that we want elective hospitals in Cork, Galway and Dublin. Subsequently, we need one in Limerick too. It has to be subject to the public spending code, which has progressed by now. We will be in a position to sign off on this next week.
Deputy Bacik raised the thalidomide survivors. We had a constructive meeting last week. We agreed to set up a process with an independent chair to discuss a range of issues and to deal with healthcare needs, independent living and other issues. We should engage and allow that process to take its course so that we can get real outcomes.
I thank the Taoiseach.
9. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe will next meet. [54591/22]
10. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe last met. [54849/22]
11. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe last met. [54852/22]
12. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe last met. [57735/22]
13. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Europe last met. [57931/22]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 to 13, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on Europe oversees implementation of programme for Government commitments on the European Union and related issues. It generally meets in advance of formal meetings of the European Council. It last met on 13 October, ahead of the meeting of the European Council in Brussels on 20 and 21 October. As I previously reported to the House, that meeting considered a number of pressing issues facing the European Union, including Russia's illegal war on Ukraine and our collective response to it; wider impacts of the war, including on food security, price and supply challenges related to energy and how best to advance our collective response to them; economic challenges; and a number of international issues, including COP27 and the upcoming European Union-Association of Southeast Asian Nations, ASEAN, summit.
The next meeting of the European Council will take place in Brussels on 15 and 16 December. I expect the agenda for the December meeting will continue the work on the important issues we addressed in October. Those include developments in the war in Ukraine; energy, including proposals we asked the European Commission to develop at our meeting in October; and the economy. I expect that we will also address a number of international issues, including the European Union's relationship with countries in the Union's southern neighbourhood.
An EU-ASEAN summit, bringing together European Union leaders with our counterparts from ten countries in south-east Asia, will take place on 14 December, ahead of the meeting of the European Council. This will mark the 45th anniversary of the partnership dialogue between the two regions and two of the world's most advanced regional integration initiatives.
A meeting of the Euro Summit is also expected to take place following the meeting of the European Council. It will consider economic prospects for the period ahead. It is envisaged that the Cabinet committee on Europe will meet in advance of that meeting to consider issues on the agenda.
We have seen an escalation in Vladimir Putin's war on civilians in Ukraine. President Zelenskyy has spoken about cold as a weapon of mass destruction. We have seen the recent targeting of energy production and the madness of the attacks on Zaporizhzhia. We all see that this is happening because Russia cannot win in the field, so it is attempting to win in other ways now. This means there will be significant issues for Ukrainians due to the cold and lack of power. We also know we have an energy crisis across the board. That is another weapon that Vladimir Putin has. Both domestically and in the European Union, we have to get our act together to ensure we can mitigate issues as much as possible. This is also a matter of ensuring there is no economic contagion across the western world. This is a win that we do not need to give to Vladimir Putin. Beyond that, we have to deal with the refugee crisis with our European partners. We have to make sure that we have planning in place in this State so that we do not see a repeat of some difficulties that we had in the last while.
While I am talking about the energy crisis, I will repeat what was said about the need for mitigations in the form of communal or district heating systems. I have looked at an amendment relating to the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, as a possible solution, but I am not particularly worried about what the solution is once there is a solution for people such as the residents of Carlinn Hall, who are paying huge costs.
Has the Taoiseach had time to consider the judgment in the case about the EU–Canada Comprehensive Economic Trade Agreement, CETA, brought by Deputy Costello? CETA has many implications for how we respond to the energy crisis, for example. I hope that a future Government in Ireland will decide to nationalise the Corrib gas field, which is currently entirely Canadian-owned. If we have signed up to the investor court system as part of CETA, at that moment, Canadians would be able to take the Irish State to a CETA tribunal, which is a private tribunal that is separate to the regular court system. If the Canadians won their case, in which they would presumably allege direct expropriation in contradiction of CETA, the Irish courts would be bound to enforce the tribunal's judgment. They would have no choice in the matter. There would be a situation where a democratically elected Irish Government would decide on a certain policy in response to the energy and climate crisis which would be overturned by a private tribunal which is only accessible to corporations. I will quote a couple of the judgments. Mr. Justice Charleton stated:
CETA sets up a supra-legislative body through the Joint Committee with unlimited powers of interpretation of a vague set of principles within the treaty. The Joint Committee makes laws. These override the exclusive law-making powers of the Oireachtas. That process is in no way democratic.
Ms Justice Dunne stated:
Of particular significance is the “almost automatic” enforceability of CETA awards... To my mind, that is why it is necessary to have CETA ratified by the People, given that it cuts down the jurisdiction of the courts and involves the creation of a parallel jurisdiction whose awards are enforceable in this jurisdiction.
Does the Taoiseach agree?
Friday is the United Nations International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. I want to express solidarity with all who suffer violence because of their gender or sexual orientation. In particular, I express solidarity with the women of Iran and all participating in the uprising against the regime that murdered Mahsa Amini. I also want to express solidarity with the LGBTQ+ community in Colorado after the nightclub killings last weekend. I salute all who are fighting back against gender-based violence. I wish the organisers of the protest on Friday, ROSA Socialist Feminist Movement, the best of luck and success with those protests.
If society is to promote consent and combat misogyny, homophobia and transphobia, we need to take many steps, not least of which is the separation of church and State, including in the sphere of education. An improved sex education curriculum will only go so far when the church continues to run schools that are funded by the taxpayer. What actions does the Taoiseach intend to take on this front?
Deputy Ó Murchú raised the shocking intensification of the war by Putin against the people of Ukraine. It is a brutal, savage attack on civilians and on a collective people. I was glad to hear this morning that Tony Connelly from RTÉ is in Kyiv to report live to us. It is important that broadcasting services can tell the world about the naked aggression of Russia and its efforts to freeze people out of their homes, villages, towns and cities. It is an extraordinary act of warfare to apply such terror to people, with a clear objective of trying to subjugate and suppress their desire to belong to the European Union, to a democracy and to their country.
It is a shocking development on the Continent of Europe that such violence and wilful murder of people is taking place at the level it is. Deputy Ó Murchú is correct that Russia has weaponised energy, food and migration. That has created huge challenges for the EU.
I think the Deputy used the phrase, "needs to get its act together on the energy front", in respect of the EU but it has done quite well. There are 27 member states and each has different energy mixes and backgrounds in terms where their energy comes from. There is a range from the Iberian Peninsula to Hungary to Ireland. We get most of our gas from the UK and Norway. We get the bulk of our gas from the UK and that is stable from a security-of-supply perspective. Gas stocks have reached the targets the Commission set across the EU. That was a good day's work and has stabilised pricing. Europe is now looking at further mechanisms to avoid the speculator being enabled to create price hikes. I acknowledge we are stabilising prices at a very high level. I think it is 300-odd pence a therm compared with 55 or 60 pence a therm before the crisis. It was 600 pence a therm in August, so prices have come down since then. One of the problems is many of the companies forward hedged and we are still looking at a price of 300-odd pence a therm into March 2023. There will not, therefore, be an immediate reduction in price, but the stabilisation of pricing is important. There is much work going on at Commission level to try to decouple gas from the cost of electricity and to create new systems, which will help the EU situation. Our situation is a bit different insofar as we have the relationship with the UK in respect of the importation of gas.
I take the Deputy's point and I replied earlier to Deputy Cian O'Callaghan on mitigation for those on community heating schemes.
Ireland has responded to a remarkable degree on the refugee crisis. More than 60,000 Ukrainians have come to Ireland and the numbers coming in separately from international protection have more than doubled when compared with last year. These were numbers simply not envisaged towards the end of last year and before the war.
Deputy Paul Murphy raised the judgments on CETA. I will examine those in detail. Quite a number of judges made their opinions known. I am sure the Deputy will agree CETA has been beneficial to many companies in Ireland and to many jobs. It has been in operation since 2017. Approximately 400 companies that are client companies of Enterprise Ireland are involved in exporting and are in the market in Canada. A lot of our produce is exported to Canada. It is a country we have good relationships with in the context of the rules-based international order. All that needs to be said because it rarely gets said by those who take an opposing view on CETA.
The Deputy raised the issue of nationalisation of the Corrib field and what could happen. We must act in good faith with companies that invest in Ireland. The Deputy's approach would destroy foreign direct investment in Ireland, if a future Government just willfully nationalised someone who decided to invest in Ireland. Governments here do not have the wherewithal to speculate on fossil fuels, nor will we have it in the future. Where companies invest here they need to have that security that we have an international rules-based system, that there are no sudden shocks and that it is not the case you can invest in Ireland and then suddenly the Government takes a turn and says it is going to nationalise everything you have. That would lead to a banana republic very quickly. It would undermine foreign direct investment. Maybe that is something the Deputy wants because maybe he does not agree with multinationals coming into Ireland.
Maybe the Taoiseach does not agree with democracy and the right to an elected left Government.
The Deputy is entitled to that position but I need to point out the consequence of what he is suggesting would be quite damaging to jobs in Ireland. Many workers would lose their jobs because many people would not invest in such a climate or such an environment. I am making a fair point because it would create a degree of uncertainty.
Could the Taoiseach address the case, if he does not mind?
As I have said, the advice we have received so far is it can be resolved through legislation. Decisions have been taken at European court level on dilution of the investor courts and so on, but I will read the judgments. We will give this assessment and examine that.
Deputy Barry raised the issue of the elimination of violence against women and I agree with his remarks in their entirety. I empathise with the LGBTI community in Colorado. What is happening in the US in respect of its gun laws is truly appalling. The degree to which people have access to high-powered weapons and the polarisation of opinion in America that allows such murderous terror attacks to happen is absolutely appalling.
In respect of church and State here, we have developed a pluralistic system in education provision. Parental choice is important, so plebiscites are held in some communities about the type of school they want and parents vote. We provide for Educate Together schools, which are growing significantly, denominational schools, non-denominational schools and Gaelscoileanna. That is what parents are looking for.
14. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the new British Prime Minister. [54594/22]
15. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent conversation with the new British Prime Minister. [55388/22]
16. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the new British Prime Minister. [57448/22]
17. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the new British Prime Minister. [57451/22]
18. Deputy Alan Farrell asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the British Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [57460/22]
19. Deputy Neale Richmond asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the UK Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, Michael Gove. [57759/22]
20. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he has spoken to the new British Prime Minister. [57932/22]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 to 20, inclusive, together.
This has been an intensive period for British-Irish relations. I will briefly outline to the House the extent of my recent engagements. On Wednesday, 26 October I congratulated the new British Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, on his appointment and we discussed a number of issues of mutual interest, including the Northern Ireland protocol. We then had a formal bilateral meeting on 10 November in advance of the British-Irish Council in Blackpool. This was a positive and constructive engagement, where in addition to Northern Ireland and the Northern Ireland protocol, we discussed the war in Ukraine, climate change, energy costs and inflation affecting both jurisdictions.
I welcomed the step back the UK Government had taken from calling fresh elections in Northern Ireland. I hope this will allow time to make progress on the EU-UK negotiations on the protocol. I also raised the Government's concerns regarding the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill. I highlighted the upcoming 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement and flagged concerns regarding the stability and functioning of the institutions and the potential for increased polarisation of politics in Northern Ireland. The Prime Minister and I continued our conversation over dinner that evening.
I met British Secretary of State, Michael Gove, at the British-Irish Council, where we discussed a number of issues including the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 and the proposed electronic travel authorisation requirements, which are a matter of concern for us, and would undermine North-South co-operation in key areas such as transport, health and tourism.
The Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, and I met to discuss joint initiatives at the British-Irish Council. On 10 November, I also undertook a trade, community and political programme in Manchester to show Government support for Irish business in the north of England. Earlier in the month, I travelled to Oxford to deliver the prestigious Romanes lecture. Finally, I travelled to Enniskillen for the Remembrance Day service on Sunday, 13 November. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland also attended and we had a brief meeting.
We have only two speakers so I will allow Deputies some latitude.
I might not need quite this level of latitude. The Taoiseach has spoken a number of times to Prime Minister Sunak. It is fair to say we are somewhat more hopeful. Some of this is not on the basis of Mr. Sunak so much as the basis everyone believes that due to the conditions prevailing in the world today Britain needs a deal with the EU. I do not think there is anyone, especially in this Chamber, who does not want to see the protocol issue dealt with. We still have those fears at the back of our minds. We do not need the situation to disintegrate from a point of view of any possibility of a hard Border. I think all of us support anything that will streamline trade. Over the past number of years one could have made determinations on the basis of comments that have been made by British politicians and many such determinations would have been wrong.
I will not read too deeply into Britain not wanting a Swiss-style relationship with the European Union. We need it to move from better mood music into an actual deal on the protocol. Maroš Šefčovič and others are willing to do the heavy lifting as regards ensuring this can be as seamless as possible. We would all welcome that. In fairness, if that was the case, it would allow unionism off the hook it has found itself on. I imagine that in the Taoiseach's conversations with the Prime Minister, he will have said that everything has to be done from a point of view of getting the Executive back up and running. I welcome that the Taoiseach has dealt with some of the issues I intended to bring up. We are still dealing with the spectre of the protocol legislation, the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 and the amnesty-legacy Bill or Bill of shame, as it has become known. I am not sure we will necessarily get what we want from the British Government. We have to maintain the pressure on it because there is an element of that government not really wanting to address the part it played and its dirty war in Ireland.
When the Taoiseach spoke to Nicola Sturgeon, did they have any conversations about the possibility of a Scottish referendum? We have all seen what has happened in the courts and the fact that this seems to be a gift that lies with the British Government. However, there is a feeling within the SNP that it would be very difficult for a British Government, no matter what it says, not to offer that referendum as a precedent has been set. Brexit is also a game changer in that respect.
I thank the Taoiseach for his response. There are few occasions when most, if not all, of the House is in agreement with policies that we have been pursuing for the past number of years, particularly on Brexit. Our bilateral relationship with the UK is of paramount importance to us. I appreciate that the Taoiseach's discussions with the new Prime Minister are probably at an initial stage, given his recent appointment. As my colleague mentioned, the issues relating to Brexit and the protocol are of paramount importance to this jurisdiction. The issues relating to the various legacy Bills that have been referred to, in particular the amnesty Bill, and our future relationship are also of critical importance. Some economic results were published earlier regarding the responses of countries post the Covid pandemic and to the war in Ukraine that show the UK is struggling when compared with the other nations within the EU and on the European Continent. In fact, I believe it is last.
With regard to those bilateral discussions on the protocol, does the Taoiseach believe there has been any formal shift or realisation that in order for the British Government to properly deal with these issues it has to do so in co-operation and consultation with the EU and our Government and unilateral action will lead to the potential destabilisation of a portion of our island, which would be detrimental? Will the Taoiseach take the opportunity during his next discussion with the Prime Minister to raise issues relating to potential terrorism threats in Northern Ireland, particularly in light of the recent attack in the North? I also ask the Taoiseach to comment on the legacy Bill specifically, which is of grave concern to many.
I thank both Deputies for raising a range of issues. Deputy Ó Murchú asked about the mood music relating to a deal. The Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, was very clear that he wanted a negotiated settlement and outcome. There are issues the British Government feels need to be resolved. I was satisfied coming out of those meetings and we both agreed we would remain seized of the issue. We agreed that both of us would collectively seek to get this resolved within a reasonable timeframe. The key is that flesh is put on the bones of that commitment and that substantial negotiations take place between officials in the EU and the UK Government and that they have the political oversight and imprimatur to engage in negotiations.
I also said it is important that the voice of industry and business in Northern Ireland is heard consistently on this matter. The manufacturing industry is doing very well in Northern Ireland and does not have a problem with the protocol. The food industry is very worried about the legislation the British Government has brought in because it involves a dual regulatory framework, which would be damaging to the integrity of the food chain. It is clear that the legislation was not industry-proofed or business-proofed. That is a point I have consistently made to Maroš Šefčovič and to the British Government. To be fair, both have taken that on board, as has the British ambassador here. Maroš Šefčovič has met with industry representatives in Northern Ireland and has heard about this at first-hand. There are issues around consumer goods and so on that have been legitimately raised and that we simply have to deal with.
I am very concerned about the Nationality and Borders Act. It makes no sense in the context of the North-South relationship and I raised that with Michael Gove. It will basically mean that an American tourist or anybody else coming into Ireland cannot go North without electronic travel authorisation requirements being fulfilled. The UK Government has indicated that it is going to engage with the Irish Government on that issue. Within Northern Ireland itself, that must be understood and highlighted because from a practical point of view, it is not implementable anyway. People coming into the country who may have an itinerary for the entire island do not want to break the law. Having that imposition on them could be damaging to Northern Ireland's economy in a practical sense.
Both Deputies raised the legacy issue. We have said to the British Government that we do not agree with what it is proposing. There have been discussions between the Minister for Foreign Affairs and his counterpart and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in respect of that at the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference. It is not on that people should get off scot-free for terrible crimes. That applies to everybody, including paramilitaries, those involved in Provisional Sinn Féin and loyalist paramilitaries. If victims want to pursue an issue, they should be allowed do so. We have to put the needs of victims at the centre of the legacy issue. I have met many of the victims' organisations and they are very angry about this agreement. Legacy is not just for the British Government; it is for the Irish Government and for parties. I would argue that the Sinn Féin Party has a journey to travel as well in respect of the legacy issue.
I recently read through Professor Liam Kennedy's work relating to young people in the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s who were subject to punishment beatings. I also listened to an excerpt from a podcast with a young man who was severely traumatised and badly beaten as a punishment meted out to him by paramilitaries. We have to pursue legacy on all fronts. That young generation in the North seems to be the forgotten generation of young people who were traumatised by the Provisional IRA in the interests of maintaining social control or because there had been antisocial behaviour and so on. The treatments that were meted out, the kneecappings that went on and so on, are the kinds of things that need to be looked at from a legacy perspective. We have never heard from that young generation. They have never really been engaged with around the trauma that was visited upon them and have never been apologised to. There has never been an acceptance that this was a completely unacceptable way to do things. Such beatings destroyed young people physically and left mental scars, and they were stigmatised in their broader community. Professor Kennedy has done some very good work in that respect but that has never really been highlighted or profiled in any way. That speaks to the comprehensive nature of legacy and dealing with legacy. It cannot just be one-dimensional. It cannot be one-sided. For our part in the Irish Government, we have told groups that have come to us saying there was collusion involving Irish security forces or the Garda that we are open to handing files over. We did the Smithwick tribunal. I have said to the unionist community and the Orange Order to bring cases if they have specific data and an evidence base. It applies all around. There has been some degree of documentation on that generation now academically but it has never come out of the academic confines to be faced up to.
