Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 13 Dec 2022

Vol. 1031 No. 1

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Jack Chambers)

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Regulation of Providers of Building Works and Miscellaneous Provisions Act 2022 (Appointment of Registration Body) Order 2022 (back from Committee) (without debate)

- Motion re Confidence in the Minster for Housing, Local Government and Heritage (to conclude within 2 hrs 25 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately)

- Appropriation Bill 2022 (Second Stage) (to conclude within 1 hr 55 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage on Wednesday)

Private Members' Business shall be the Motion re Current issues affecting the Health Service, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday’s business shall be:

- Motion re Recommendation of Appointment of Ordinary Members of the Electoral Commission (to conclude within 60 mins)

- Motions re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Sustainable Energy Act 2002 (section 8(2)) (Conferral of Additional Functions — Energy Efficiency) Order 2022 (back from Committee) (without debate)

- Motion re Presentation and Circulation of Revised Estimates 2023 (without debate)

- Motion re Report of the Joint Committee on Standing Orders (Private Business) (without debate)

- Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad] (without debate and any division claimed to be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage of the Bill, or in the event a division is claimed on the Second Stage proceedings on the Bill, immediately following any such division)

- Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions (without debate)

- Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad] (Second Stage) (to conclude within 1 hr 55 mins and any division claimed to be taken immediately following the Local Government (Maternity Protection and Other Measures for Members of Local Authorities) Bill 2022)

- Appropriation Bill 2022 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to be taken no earlier than 4 p.m. and to conclude within 30 mins)

- Local Government (Maternity Protection and Other Measures for Members of Local Authorities) Bill 2022 (Report and Final Stages) (to conclude within 30 mins)

- Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad] (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 3 hrs 30 mins)

- Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) (Amendment) Bill 2022 (Amendments from the Seanad) (to conclude within 30 mins)

- Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill 2022 [Seanad] (Committee and remaining Stages) (to conclude within 45 mins)

Private Members' Business shall be the Motion re Nationalisation of the Energy System, selected by People Before Profit-Solidarity.

Thursday’s business shall be:

- Statements on Defects in Apartments - Report of the Working Group to Examine Defects in Housing (not to exceed 2 hrs 25 mins)

- Statements on Social Housing Income Level Thresholds (not to exceed 2 hrs 25 mins)

Thursday evening business shall be Second Stage of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) (Amendment) (Pets) Bill 2021, sponsored by Deputy Verona Murphy.

Saturday’s business shall be:

- Statement by the Taoiseach and Constitutional business: nominations for Taoiseach (2 hrs 30 mins approx.); and

- Constitutional business: nomination of members of the Government (2 hrs 10 mins approx.)

Proposed Arrangements for this week's business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders is modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil shall sit later than 10.30 p.m.;

(ii) expressions of sympathy for the late Bobby Aylward shall be taken on the conclusion of Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 46(1);

(iii) after the expressions of sympathy, the time for Government business shall be extended for the purpose of allowing the proceedings on Second Stage of the Appropriation Bill 2022 to conclude, with consequential effect on the commencement time for private members' business and Parliamentary Questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment; and

(iv) notwithstanding anything in Standing Order 37, topical issues shall not be taken and the Dáil shall adjourn on the conclusion of Parliamentary Questions to the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment pursuant to Standing Order 46(1);

2. the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Regulation of Providers of Building Works and Miscellaneous Provisions Act 2022 (Appointment of Registration Body) Order 2022 shall be taken without debate;

3. the Motion re Confidence in the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 145 minutes, with arrangements in accordance with those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 135 minutes, following which a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, and members may share time; and

4. in relation to proceedings on Second Stage of the Appropriation Bill 2022, the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the first speaking round shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, save that the times shall be halved in each case; and

(ii) on conclusion of the first speaking round, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion: Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage of the Bill on Wednesday.

In relation to Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil shall meet at 9 a.m. to take the Motion re Recommendation of Appointment of Ordinary Members of the Electoral Commission as the first item of business;

(ii) the Dáil shall sit later than 9.30 p.m. and shall adjourn on the conclusion of topical issues pursuant to Standing Order 37, which shall not be taken as the first item of business, but which shall instead be taken on the conclusion of the weekly division time, or if there are no deferred divisions, on the conclusion of proceedings on the Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill 2022 [Seanad];

(iii) Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 46(1) shall not be taken and the SOS shall be taken at the time when Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach would normally be taken;

(iv) the weekly division time may be taken later than 8.45 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of proceedings on the Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill 2022 [Seanad]; and

(v) notwithstanding the Order of the Dáil of 6th May, 2021, the deadline for submission of topical issues on Wednesday shall be 10 a.m.;

2. the Motion re Recommendation of Appointment of Ordinary Members of the Electoral Commission shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows:

- opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State – 7.5 minutes;

- speeches by representatives of Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group – 7.5 minutes per party or group;

(ii) members may share time; and

(iii) in the event the motion concludes before 10 a.m., the sitting shall stand suspended until 10 a.m.;

3. the Motion re Proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Sustainable Energy Act 2002 (section 8(2)) (Conferral of Additional Functions — Energy Efficiency) Order 2022 shall be taken without debate;

4. the Motion re Presentation and Circulation of Revised Estimates 2023 shall be taken without debate;

5. pursuant to Standing Order 29(3), the Motion re Report of the Joint Committee on Standing Orders (Private Business) shall be taken without debate immediately following the Motion re Presentation and Circulation of Revised Estimates 2023;

6. notwithstanding anything in Standing Order 187, the Motion to Instruct the Committee on the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad] shall be taken without debate, and any division claimed shall be taken immediately prior to Committee Stage of the Bill, or in the event a division is claimed on the Second Stage proceedings on the Bill, immediately following any such division;

7. the Motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions shall be taken without debate;

8. in relation to Second Stage of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad], the following arrangements shall apply:

(i) the first speaking round shall be in accordance with the arrangements agreed in the Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, save that the times shall be halved in each case; and

(ii) on conclusion of the first speaking round, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply, which shall not exceed 10 minutes, whereupon proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion: Provided that any division claimed on the Second Stage proceedings shall be taken immediately following the conclusion of proceedings on the Local Government (Maternity Protection and Other Measures for Members of Local Authorities) Bill 2022;

9. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Appropriation Bill 2022 shall be taken no earlier than 4 p.m. and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform;

10. the proceedings on Report and Final Stages of the Local Government (Maternity Protection and Other Measures for Members of Local Authorities) Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage;

11. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill 2022 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 3 hours and 30 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage;

12. the proceedings on the amendments from the Seanad to the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) (Amendment) Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes and any amendments from the Seanad not disposed of shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Seanad amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth; and

13. the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill 2022 [Seanad] shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 45 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage.

In relation to Thursday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the Dáil shall meet at 8.54 a.m.;

(ii) topical issues shall be taken on the conclusion of Government business, with consequential effect on the commencement time for the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) (Amendment) (Pets) Bill 2021 and for the adjournment of the Dáil;

(iii) notwithstanding anything in Standing Order 37, topical issues shall be taken for 96 minutes and eight topical issues may be taken; and

(iv) the Dáil on its rising shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Saturday 17th December, 2022;

2. the Statements on Defects in Apartments – Report of the Working Group to Examine Defects in Housing shall not exceed 145 minutes, with arrangements in accordance with those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 135 minutes, following which a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, and members may share time; and

3. the Statements on Social Housing Income Level Thresholds shall not exceed 145 minutes, with arrangements in accordance with those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 135 minutes, following which a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, and members may share time.

In relation to Saturday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the Dáil on its rising on Saturday shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Wednesday, 18th January, 2023; and

2. unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the business to be taken on Saturday 17th December, 2022, and the arrangements relating thereto shall be as follows:

(i) a statement by the Taoiseach which shall not exceed 15 minutes;

(ii) subject to the necessity arising pursuant to Article 28.9.1 of Bunreacht na hÉireann, nominations of a Taoiseach for appointment by the President pursuant to Standing Order 34A(2)(b), in relation to which the order of speaking and arrangements shall be as follows:

- speeches of a Government proposer and seconder - 5 minutes each;

- speeches by representatives of other Government parties, Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group - 10 minutes per party or group; and

- members may share time;

(iii) subject to the necessity arising pursuant to Article 28.11.1 of the Constitution, a Motion for approval by Dáil Éireann of the nomination by the Taoiseach of other members of the Government for appointment by the President pursuant to Standing Order 34A(2)(c), in relation to which the order of speaking and arrangements shall be as follows:

- speech by the Taoiseach - 10 minutes;

- speeches by representatives of other Government parties, Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group - 10 minutes per party or group; and

- members may share time;

(iv) on the nomination by the Dáil of a Taoiseach for appointment by the President, the Dáil shall, unless it otherwise orders, stand suspended either until 5 p.m. or four hours after the conclusion of a nomination of a Taoiseach, whichever is the later; and

(v) any divisions claimed shall be taken by roll-call.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the Order of Business agreed?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is not agreed. I asked the Taoiseach about the response of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Ryan, to the chaotic scenes we saw again at Dublin Airport. In his response the Taoiseach set out some of the work done by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy O'Brien. I am not satisfied with that answer. I am very concerned as we now come very close to Christmas, with huge numbers of passengers passing through Dublin Airport, that we cannot see the type of chaos, delay and distress that we witnessed during the summer. I ask that the Minister, Deputy Ryan, presents himself to the Dáil, makes a statement on the planning for Dublin Airport and takes questions from Members.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I already raised on Leaders' Questions our concerns about the rushing through of the Planning and Development and Foreshore (Amendment) Bill. These concerns were set out in our letter, sent by my colleague Senator Rebecca Moynihan, to the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, on 1 December. I want to raise that again. Our representative on the Business Committee also raised the concerns about the tabling of business in this House. We are absolutely in support of measures to speed up the delivery of housing but we have very serious concerns about the extent to which the measures in this Bill will not have the proper scrutiny they deserve.

Deputy Mick Barry

We need a Dáil debate on the issue of this cold snap. We need a debate on how we will help people to keep their homes warm despite the massive increases in gas and electricity prices. The Government will say there is the €200 credit, but there are households who are burning through that €200 energy credit in the seven to ten days of this cold snap alone. Some of these households are on pay-as-you-go and could face the threat of disconnection this Christmas. There have been a lot of Elvis Presley references here in the past hour but it is now or never on this issue. We need a Dáil session to be organised on this, and if necessary the Dáil needs to meet on Friday to discuss it. We cannot have people being disconnected over Christmas.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

I object in the strongest possible terms that here we are yet again at the end of a Dáil term seeing important planning legislation being rushed through without sufficient time for scrutiny. The current Bill allows for the concentration of power into the hands of the Minister when it comes to the appointment of members of An Bord Pleanála. It brings us back to the situation we got rid of in 1983 for very good reasons. It is highly regressive. This is not the way we should be doing Dáil business. Is the Taoiseach aware that with the Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill we have 45 minutes to discuss 41 amendments? How is that meant to work?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

On behalf of the Rural Independent Group and in support of Deputy Nolan, I ask for a reasonable, balanced, understanding and civil debate. The Taoiseach has said debate is not being stopped or suppressed in the House, but it is. Why can we not have a debate on the situation of migration? I am not talking about the war in Ukraine, which the Taoiseach has an obsession with, as I said previously. I am talking about migration from countries that have safe places and where there is no war. I have quoted figures previously to the Taoiseach. Some 3,100 people have come from Albania in the first ten months of this year with no documentation. Níl píosa amháin acu - nothing - and others have come from many other countries. The Taoiseach said our immigration and border controls are working but they are not working. How are they getting in here? We cannot afford to have them here.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I remind the Deputy that this is not a debate. It is the Order of Business.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

We must look after the homeless, our sick people and our children.

A Deputy

You are a disgrace.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Here is more of it; I am a disgrace. May I have the protection of the Chair, please, without these-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I did not hear it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I heard it, and I am sure the stenographers heard it. It is the same all the time. These so-called social police in this Chamber think they can police what we want to raise and say.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Can that comment be withdrawn, please?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I did not actually hear it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I was called a disgrace by a Deputy on the right, and I want it withdrawn. I am entitled as an elected Deputy to raise any issues in the House. Can it be withdrawn?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I actually did not hear it so I cannot comment on it. I did not hear it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Shocking.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I genuinely did not hear it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I believe you.

The Taoiseach

We have a very heavy schedule this week.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

What about Friday?

The Taoiseach

Just one step at a time now. Deputy McDonald asked if the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, could issue a statement or could come before the House.

We are meeting until beyond midnight tonight. I would hesitate to ask the Minister in at 12.30 a.m. or towards 1 a.m. because he should be asleep at that stage.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Wakey wakey.

The Taoiseach

That would be my advice to him from a health perspective, so I will have to refuse that request.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I appreciate that the Taoiseach is being humorous, and no doubt the Minister would be conked out by then, but it is a serious issue and I would like the Minister to come before the House.

The Taoiseach

We have Topical Issue matters. That might be an opportunity to raise issues.

Deputy Bacik raised the planning issue again, as did Deputy Cian O'Callaghan. Two weeks ago there was a lot of pressure on the Government to declare a housing emergency, to accept that there is a housing emergency and to accept that it is urgent. This is a minor amendment which enables us to get houses built more rapidly on public land that is already zoned for housing. Local authorities are getting help as well because the Minister has allocated substantial funding to them to take away historic debt and to enable them to get on with building rapid-build houses.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

What about An Bord Pleanála?

Deputy Ivana Bacik

There is more in the Bill than that.

The Taoiseach

Everybody says they want something "but". The "but" always comes in and it means "Can you delay it again?".

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is the Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Water Environment (Abstractions and Associated Impoundments) Bill was first published in 2004, so we can hardly be accused of rushing it.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

There are 45 minutes for 41 amendments.

The Taoiseach

We are discussing a range of issues with regard to the cold snap. Deputy Barry has proven himself to be individually robust in the context of that cold snap because on Saturday afternoon I was walking up Oliver Plunkett Street and a rough cacophony of sound emerged from the sidelines, and who was it but his good self, lambasting the Government out on the public streets. When he saw me his voice went up in intensity, blaming the Government for all our ills.

Deputy Mick Barry

As I do every Saturday afternoon.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Even during a cold snap.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Barry is fortunate to be blessed with mental telepathy as well because, today at Cabinet, the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, brought forward measures to deal with pay-as-you-go meters and he brought forward funding-----

Deputy Mick Barry

We will talk about that in a minute

The Taoiseach

-----to enable that issue to be resolved. I will ask him to communicate with the Deputy on the details of that.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Taoiseach never addressed my point.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Mattie McGrath raised the issue of migration and it is an issue of finding time within these two-and-a-half days to debate it. It is a packed schedule-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Dé hAoine.

The Taoiseach

-----today, tomorrow and Thursday.

Deputy Maurice Quinlivan

Friday.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Friday.

The Taoiseach

I do not think the Deputy really wants to be here on Friday.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Sure we are here on Saturday.

Deputy Maurice Quinlivan

We are here on Saturday anyway.

The Taoiseach

Was that proposed at the Business Committee?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Yes. I wrote to the Business Committee.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Are the proposed arrangements for this week's business agreed to?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Not agreed.

Question put: "That the proposed arrangements for this week's business be agreed to."

The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Níl, 56; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Brophy, Colm.
• Browne, James.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Colm.
• Butler, Mary.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Cahill, Jackie.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Carey, Joe.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Collins, Niall.
• Costello, Patrick.
• Coveney, Simon.
• Cowen, Barry.
• Creed, Michael.
• Crowe, Cathal.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Dillon, Alan.
• Donnelly, Stephen.
• Donohoe, Paschal.
• Duffy, Francis Noel.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Fitzpatrick, Peter.
• Flaherty, Joe.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Fleming, Sean.
• Foley, Norma.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harris, Simon.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Humphreys, Heather.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lawless, James.
• Leddin, Brian.
• Lowry, Michael.
• Madigan, Josepha.
• Martin, Catherine.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Matthews, Steven.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McGrath, Michael.
• McGuinness, John.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Noonan, Malcolm.
• O'Brien, Darragh.
• O'Brien, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Donovan, Patrick.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Phelan, John Paul.
• Rabbitte, Anne.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Ryan, Eamon.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Smyth, Ossian.
• Stanton, David.
• Troy, Robert.
• Varadkar, Leo.

Níl

• Andrews, Chris.
• Bacik, Ivana.
• Barry, Mick.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Brady, John.
• Browne, Martin.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Cairns, Holly.
• Canney, Seán.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Joan.
• Collins, Michael.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cullinane, David.
• Daly, Pa.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Funchion, Kathleen.
• Gould, Thomas.
• Guirke, Johnny.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kelly, Alan.
• Kenny, Gino.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• Murphy, Catherine.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Murphy, Verona.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• Nash, Ged.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Broin, Eoin.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
• Pringle, Thomas.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Ryan, Patricia.
• Shortall, Róisín.
• Smith, Bríd.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tóibín, Peadar.
• Tully, Pauline.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Jack Chambers and Brendan Griffin; Níl, Deputies Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Cian O'Callaghan.

Question declared carried.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Believe it or not, it is now seven months since the Northern Ireland Assembly election in the North and the people are still without a Government as the DUP maintains its boycott of the political institutions. It is my understanding the Tories' very reckless Northern Ireland protocol Bill has been put on ice until the new year.

In her address to the Oireachtas recently, the European Commission President, Ms Ursula von der Leyen, made it clear she is hopeful progress can be made on the protocol. I share that hope. Space has now been created for negotiations. The question is whether this space is being used to get a deal to restore the institutions. Mr. Rishi Sunak became British Prime Minister at the end of October. He has yet to engage properly with parties in the North. Has the Taoiseach been in touch with Mr. Sunak?

What steps is the Irish Government taking to use the space now created to achieve progress, a result, the retention of the protocol and, crucially, government in the North?

The Taoiseach

Generally speaking, one of the big regrets of the whole Brexit saga has been the degree to which proper thinking of the impact on Northern Ireland was never really carried out. We are living with the situation ever since Brexit and it has had a negative impact on the overall sets of relationships in respect of Northern Ireland. The British Prime Minister, when I last met him, as well as everything we have heard from his office and from the secretary of state for foreign affairs, indicated a view to getting this resolved by negotiation. President von der Leyen was hopeful last week, as the Deputy said. We hope the European Union, with the United Kingdom Government, utilises this opportunity to resolve the outstanding issues in relation to the protocol. Parallel to that, the DUP should go back into the Assembly and facilitate the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We heard today that the Cabinet will not approve the updated climate action plan before the Dáil rises for Christmas. I understand the plan is to go to next week’s Cabinet meeting just before Christmas. That means we in opposition will not have the opportunity to scrutinise the plan in a Dáil debate. It means yet another delay in publishing much-needed plans to tackle the climate crisis. The latest update to the current plan shows that 23% of targets due for completion by the end of September were missed.

When will we have the opportunity to debate the plan? Will it be as early as possible in the new year? How can we have confidence the Government will meet climate targets if everything is subject to such delay? We are seeing delays in the publication of the climate action plan, just as we saw delays in the carbon budgets and sectoral emissions ceilings.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. It will go to Cabinet next week. It is an enormously detailed plan. The challenges facing us in respect of achieving our emissions targets are extraordinary. A wide range of measures must be taken by every sector in society to deal with climate change. There will be ample time in this House early in the new term to debate the content of the plan. More than just debate, we need a collective resolve to implement the plan because it is extremely challenging.

Deputy Holly Cairns

Currently, a person who is abusing a partner can refuse to relinquish their rights under a joint tenancy in social housing. If a person has a barring order against a former partner for domestic violence, the partner's name remains on the tenancy and cannot be unwillingly removed. For example, if a person needs to transfer housing, this has to be agreed to as a joint tenant. The law is inadvertently facilitating that kind of abuse. Domestic violence is a very complicated issue and there are few easy solutions but in this case an amendment to the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2014 would make a significant difference to people, mainly women and children, in vulnerable situations. In his last few days in the role, I ask the Taoiseach to begin the process of making the necessary changes to the legislation to support victims and survivors of domestic violence.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising an important issue and making a fair point. I will follow up with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage in respect of the changes she seeks.

Deputy Mick Barry

Householders are burning through their €200 energy credits at a rate of knots in this cold snap. I spoke to a woman on the north side of Cork city last night living in a council house with a poor building energy rating, BER. She is spending €10 per day on electricity, €10 per day on gas and €7 per day on coal and blocks. She is a pay-as-you-go customer and her next €200 credit will not cover her until January. She will be all right as there are two wage packets coming into that house, but what happens in the house where that is not the case? Will people be disconnected in Christmas week or the week running up to New Year’s Day?

Today, as the Taoiseach reminded me, the Government signed off on a €10 million energy poverty fund. Does the Taoiseach seriously expect people to be beating a path to the door of MABS, Alone or the Department of Social Welfare in the days running up to Christmas? Why will he not bite the bullet on this issue and extend the gas and electricity moratorium not just to bill-pay customers but to all customers, including those on pay as you go?

The Taoiseach

We have bitten the bullet at this stage in terms of the measures that have been brought to the Cabinet today by the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, which specifically targeted those on pay as you go. It is a good measure that is designed to target a group that is not captured by the other significant range of payments that have been made through social protection and other measures. People will not be cut off during Christmas week.

Deputy Verona Murphy

Today I will take the opportunity to seek a commitment to retain the 9% tourism VAT rate, which is vital to my constituency of Wexford in the coastal sunny south east. Tourism businesses, hotels and restaurants, are collectively our largest employer and prior to the pandemic that industry supported over 270,000 livelihoods nationwide. That included 10,000 jobs throughout County Wexford, generating €227 million in tourism revenues annually for our local economy. In light of the turbulent times ahead, it is therefore worrying that the Government plans to increase the tourism VAT rate to 13.5% at the end of February. This will turn tourism business models on their head at a time when there are ever-increasing operational costs. On behalf of the hotel, restaurant and cafe owners and their staff throughout County Wexford, I urge that all parties to the incoming Government retain the 9% VAT rate.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. To be fair, the Government has been very supportive of the hospitality and tourism sector over the past two and a half years, making unprecedented interventions during Covid-19. There was the reduction in the VAT rate to 9%, which has also been advantageous to the industry. The Government will give all of these issues due consideration across all Government parties in 2023.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The Taoiseach is aware of who Cara Darmody is. Cara is here today in the Gallery with her dad, Mark. She is directly in front of the Taoiseach so he might give her a wave. She is the most high-profile autism advocate in Ireland today. She recently sat the junior cycle maths exam at only 11 years of age to raise awareness of the lack of therapies and assessments for autistic children. She received an incredible result of 97%, which was delivered live on "The Late Late Show". She has received the award for Munster Young Carer of the Year, she has received a Tipperary person award and she presented testimony at an Oireachtas committee only last week. She will now sit her leaving certificate at the age of 12 in an effort to raise awareness of the crisis for the 1,800 children who are waiting for assessments and supports. While her family could get an assessment for her brother, Neil, it cost approximately €1,730. Why is that so? Why can the HSE not deal with these people? She has to sit and watch Neil - and I was in the house last night - who has the mental age perhaps of a six-month-old. At the age of 12, she sees self-harming and him injuring himself and she has to endure that.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

She is a very special national advocate. They raised so much money and not a penny of it has gone towards themselves, but it is so that other people can get services. Surely this must be corrected. On the Taoiseach’s last day in office, I hope that he will give a reasonable response that the Government will do something for these people who so badly need to be recognised and supported.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. We met in the office some months ago where we discussed these issues. It is not acceptable and I have said this repeatedly. I have convened meetings with all the relevant Ministers in the areas of education and health. There is an issue with the roll-out of the progressing disability services programme. That had an impact, in my view, on the availability of therapists in special schools and therapists more generally, which is patchy across the country. There is not a sufficient number of therapists in place to provide for children on the health side of things. While the education side has responded well, the health side has not. The HSE is saying that the recruitment of therapists is its biggest problem and challenge for assessments. We will go back to get this issue sorted.

Deputy Joan Collins

I wish to raise the issue of autistic children in mainstream schools who are excluded from the special care dental programme that autistic children in special schools and in special class are included in. I tabled a parliamentary question on this matter after I was contacted by the Dublin 12 Campaign 4 Autism Inclusion in relation to a health centre on Old County Road, Crumlin. The reply states that the dental service is not resourced to provide comprehensive dental care to all children, including those with special needs. The special care programme prioritises children in special schools and in special classes in mainstream schools, while children with special needs in mainstream classes are not targeted in the special care programme. Parents whose autistic children are in the mainstream are already burdened, as the Taoiseach has mentioned, by the lack of services and huge financial burdens of paying for speech and language therapists, physiotherapists etc., just like parents of children who are in special schools and classes.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Joan Collins

May I just ask the question? Why are autistic children in the mainstream being excluded from the special care dental programme? Why are dental services not resourced to provide that care?

The Taoiseach

They should not be excluded.

Deputy Joan Collins

They should not.

The Taoiseach

There is a wider issue with dental services more generally. The fault is not all on the side of the State. We have to look radically at this to make a broader provision for people, particularly children with special needs. They should be prioritised in any service. There has been a long-standing, ongoing issue which includes industrial relations issues, pay issues and so forth. We have a highly privatised dental service more generally. It seems to me that the capacity within the public service to deliver services on the public dental front is in decline-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

-----notwithstanding the fact that more money has been allocated. There needs to be very serious engagement on that issue.

Deputy Joan Collins

Will that be addressed?

The Taoiseach

Yes.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

Since the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, is present, I would like to ask a question about the new agri-climate rural environment scheme, ACRES. For too long, we have penalised and docked payments for farmers for having bits of habitat on their land. For the first time ever, we have a proper agri-environmental scheme in ACRES that will actually reward farmers for working with biodiversity, with payments of over €10,000 in co-operation areas. Outside the co-operation areas there will be payments of up to €7,000 per farmer per year. At the moment, it is expected that only approximately 30,000 applicants will be admitted into the scheme. However, 46,000 farmers have applied to get into this scheme, which proves that farmers want to work with biodiversity and want to farm in an environmentally friendly manner. I ask that the capacity of ACRES be increased and that we allow 46,000 farmers to participate in the scheme.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)

I thank Deputy Christopher O’Sullivan for raising this issue, for which he has been a great advocate. It has also been a key priority for the Government, as well as for the three parties in government. The uptake in appetite among farm families for the scheme has proven very strong. We have had 46,000 applicants, when the expectation was that we would have approximately 30,000 in the first tranche. I would love to bring all 46,000 in. We want to be able to enable all farm families to participate in this and to back them both in their farm incomes and by working to contribute to the environment.

There are a number of issues that need to be worked through to see if that is possible. The first is the budget and the second is the process and the capacity of the system as to whether it will be able to manage that, to ensure it gets up and running smoothly, that it works well and that people get paid on time. I am looking at all those issues. I do not know yet whether it will be possible. If it is possible, I would like to do it. It is great to see such a strong response from the farming community. As we always have done, we will continue to back farm families both financially and in making a contribution to emissions reduction and to ecosystem services.

Deputy Alan Dillon

I wish to raise the shambolic issues surrounding the suspension of catering services for those who use rail transport for intercity commutes. This has been ongoing for the past 11 months and it needs to be resolved. Rail passengers, including students and the elderly, who travel for up to three or four hours are still unable to access catering services, whether that is to get a bottle of water, a mineral or a cup of tea, on Iarnród Éireann’s intercity network across the country. Commuters cannot for the life of them understand how these restrictions are currently in place with no sign of catering services to be put in place anytime soon. I think of routes such as Cork to Dublin, Westport to Dublin, and from Kerry, Cork and Limerick. Station-based shops are available only in bigger rail stations. I am calling on the Taoiseach to take up this serious matter with Irish Rail. We are now past the point of excuses from Irish Rail about short-staffing and cost issues. I ask for this matter to be addressed with immediate effect.

The Taoiseach

My understanding is that the catering provider has pulled out and the organisation has not been in a position to find a replacement but it is essentially a matter for Iarnród Éireann to resolve. In the interim, I think people should have their porridge before they get on the train.

Deputy Matt Carthy

In the 21 years of the existence of the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO, only once has its members had a split decision, and that was in respect of the actions of the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, in leaking a confidential document to his friend. The Comptroller and Auditor General and the Ombudsman, both members of SIPO, did not accept his implication that his actions, in his then role of Taoiseach, which he judged to be appropriate, cannot be questioned by SIPO. In a podcast interview this week, the Taoiseach clearly disagreed as well with the Fine Gael leader's defence and made clear that taoisigh are not and cannot be above SIPO investigations. Considering that, what action does he plan to take in regard to his Cabinet colleague?

The Taoiseach

That was a very summarised summary of what I said on the podcast. All members of the Government are held accountable to this House primarily, under our Constitution, and we should never lose sight of that.

SIPO has made a decision on this. Every member of SIPO is equal. The Deputy's point is a new departure. I have no issue with there being transparency around the decisions of SIPO, but if we are now saying that because two of its members went one way and three went another way, the three who voted in one way are in some way inferior to the two who voted in an opposite direction, that creates real problems-----

Deputy Matt Carthy

Are taoisigh accountable to SIPO?

The Taoiseach

-----in terms of how a board is constituted. Once a person is appointed or selected onto a board, that person is duty-bound to assess every decision independently and in accordance with the criteria and understandings.

Deputy Matt Carthy

Are taoisigh accountable to SIPO?

The Taoiseach

As I said, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform today brought to Cabinet comprehensive proposals following a review of the operations of SIPO, which will come before the House in due course.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

The Taoiseach has been the recipient of many good wishes today and I thank him for his support and that of his Government for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence initiatives over the past two and a half years. Unfortunately, the majority of murders in Ireland still have a domestic violence motivation. A total of 53% of sex crimes have a relationship aspect and most killings and sex crimes happen in a residential setting. Seven hundred and forty-four women were for sale for sex on International Women's Day this year in Ireland. On 19 January, the Taoiseach led tributes to Ashling Murphy following her death, and since then, with the assistance with the Ceann Comhairle, I read into the record of the House the names of the other 243 women who had died in those circumstances since 1997. Will the Taoiseach commit, irrespective of the changes at the weekend, to retaining his support for the work the Government needs to continue to do regarding domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, particularly on the education front and through the introduction of a new relationships and sexuality education programme to lead the broad cultural change we need to give effect to the changes needed in Ireland?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I assure her this is a whole-of-government priority that is embedded within the programme for Government. The programme for Government is the glue that holds the Government together, and the Government collectively and the three parties in government have an obligation to follow through on all aspects of it.

With regard to domestic violence, the agenda that has been set, with a new strategy published by the Minister, Deputy McEntee, seeks to deliver that, particularly in terms of getting an adequate number of refuge spaces in place in a comprehensive way.

As for the relationships and sexuality education, RSE, programme in our schools, progress is being made by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, especially in respect of the junior cycle, for which the review is nearly concluded, involving the updating and modernisation of that curriculum. In parallel to that, exercises have been under way regarding the leaving certificate cycle in respect of RSE.

Deputy Brendan Smith

This year, 28 December marks the 50th anniversary of the despicable and heinous crime of the bombing of Belturbet, County Cavan, which caused the deaths of two young teenagers, Geraldine O'Reilly from Belturbet and Patrick Stanley from Clara, County Offaly, and injuries to many others. In September 2020, I put on the record of this House information that had come to me through the good investigative work of Dr. Edward Burke, then of the University of Nottingham, regarding the Belturbet bombing and other loyalist operations in County Cavan. Subsequently, the then Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, confirmed to me she had referred this information to An Garda Síochána for investigation.

I welcome the recent announcement by An Garda Síochána of further investigations being carried out into this despicable atrocity. I wish An Garda Síochána well with this extremely important investigation and hope there will be co-operation from the public North and South, and from all authorities North and South, that will help to identify the perpetrators of that heinous crime. I pay tribute, as I have done in this House on many occasions, to the O'Reilly and Stanley families, who have always campaigned for justice for their loved ones, seeking the truth. They have always campaigned with the utmost grace and dignity.

Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that every possible support will be provided by the Government to ensure this further investigation by An Garda Síochána is progressed as soon as possible and that we will at least get the truth in regard to that atrocity?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. He has been a persistent and constant advocate for the O'Reilly and Stanley families in respect of the horrible murders of Geraldine and Patrick. Every resource will be given to An Garda Síochána. I welcome the fact that there is a further investigation and all authorities North and South should make available whatever documents or evidence they have in respect of it. No effort will be spared to bring those who are responsible for these terrible crimes to justice.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are out of time but I will take the five remaining Deputies with 30-second questions.

Deputy Pa Daly

It has been more than 50 years since five citizens were tried for their involvement in an attempted arms importation, although they were acquitted. The arms crisis had a long-lasting impact, particularly on Captain James Kelly, whom the Taoiseach spoke to before he died and whose family members I have been speaking to. Prior reviews have failed to include key source documentation, especially the unedited statement of his superior officer, Colonel Hefferon, which verified his testimony. The Taoiseach and I know Captain Kelly was acting under orders. Before he departs the office of Taoiseach, will he recognise that Captain Kelly was acting under orders and that the State covered up its involvement in the arms importation?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

On Thursday, Jacqueline, a mother of two teenage children and wife to Richard, a man who has worked all his life - both of them are in their late 50s - rang me in tears to tell me they are going to be in court in the first week of February to face eviction from the home where they have lived all their lives. This is despite claims by the Government that it has brought in an eviction ban.

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up, Deputy.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

They have both written to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, please. The time is up.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

What is the Government going to do to protect people who have done absolutely nothing wrong from being evicted from their homes? Will it finally bring in an eviction ban that actually prevents people who have done nothing wrong from being thrown out of their homes like this family?

An Ceann Comhairle

If Members do not stick to the 30 seconds I am giving them, I will not call them in future.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Nobody else did.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry?

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I was just saying that nobody else stuck to the time.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not pretending here. If we allocate 30 seconds in order to facilitate Deputies and they ignore whoever is in the Chair, I will cease the practice. I call Deputy Whitmore.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

The cold snap has recently resulted in significant difficulties for people in being able to get out and about. Local authorities grit the roads but there is no provision for them to grit paths and cycleways. Ironically, over recent days, I have seen parents driving their children to school because it is not safe for their children to walk to school. Considering that the stated policy of the Government is for active travel, is it time to direct councils to ensure high-priority paths and cycleways are gritted?

Deputy Michael McNamara

I previously raised the loss of income to farmers in the Burren and the Taoiseach said it was not good enough. They have since met the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Brendan Dunford, who established the Burren Life scheme, has resigned, saying he could not stand over it. If things continue as they are planned, farmers and the environment in the Burren will be poorer. The Taoiseach was correct when he said it is not good enough. What will be done to change that?

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

In the Taoiseach's term of office, there have been a number of internal investigations in his Department into leaking to the media. One related to the report on mother and baby homes. It was alleged by some that it might have been the Taoiseach himself who leaked that document.

It is nearly two years since the start of that investigation and there is still no result. Will there ever be a result in that? There is another investigation; we do not know exactly what it is about. Is it the investigation into the leaking by the Tánaiste of the confidential GP document? What is it about and when will we see the results of that investigation?

The Taoiseach

Deputy Daly asked about the arms crisis and Captain Kelly. I knew Captain Kelly and I met him on a number of occasions. In the next while, it will not be possible to do as the Deputy suggests, but I will have the issues raised looked at and reviewed. I understand the family have communicated to a number of Deputies on that.

Deputy Boyd Barrett asked about Jacqueline. I do not know the background of the case, but I believe the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has met the Deputy in respect of the family, or to discuss the case. The eviction notice does-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

She also wrote to him.

The Taoiseach

I know but I have not seen the letter. The Minister has met him. The Deputy said it will come to court in February. The eviction ban is in place until the end of March. I do not know the circumstances as to why it is in court, why the eviction has been sought or what the background to it is. I know that the Minister will keep briefed on it.

Deputy Whitmore asked about gritting. I am assured by the Minister that footpaths generally can be gritted. The local authorities have been given instructions on active travel. We can look at that with the local authorities. It is an important point in terms of the safety of pedestrians and cyclists.

In response to Deputy McNamara, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Marine has met with the groups in the Burren. I met them in passing as well. There are issues with the expansion of the scheme and the levels of funding, but he is currently reflecting on this. I take the Deputy's point that if we can do it within the existing framework and facilitate those farmers who were pioneers and leaders, then we should do that.

Deputy Michael McNamara

Fianna Fáil councillors on the ground are blaming the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have a conversation. I ask the Taoiseach to respond to the next question please.

The Taoiseach

That is a handy fallback position-----

Deputy Michael McNamara

It would be a handy fallback.

The Taoiseach

-----but it is very unfair on the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who has been a strong advocate for biodiversity generally.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Taoiseach come back to the next question, please?

The Taoiseach

In response to Deputy Tóibín, there has been no outcome to that yet. I hope we will see that in due course.