Mairéad Farrell
Question:106. Deputy Mairéad Farrell asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans for reforming public procurement legislation to allow the procurement system to be used in a more strategic way. [63831/22]
Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions
Public Procurement Contracts
There is no way that we can have business as usual here today in relation to our questions when we look at what has happened over the last number of days and the scandal the Minister has been embroiled in. The Minister has failed to clarify matters in relation to this scandal. There are a number of outstanding questions that I want to put to him today because he failed to answer questions yesterday in the Dáil. Who, in 2017, brought to his attention that a company van was used in 2016?
Deputy-----
What action did the Minister take and at what value did he calculate that work?
Thank you, Deputy. We are on Priority Questions here-----
I said from the outset that there is no way we can go back to business as usual when the Minister is refusing to answer questions. The Minister now has an opportunity to answer those questions. Indeed, he has an hour and a half in which to answer questions. He should use that time to answer.
Deputy, please take your seat.
I am asking questions of the Minister and I ask that he answer them.
Deputy, could you resume your seat pleas? Your 30 seconds are up. Let me clarify something here. I was actually due to hand over the Chair but was just starting on questions. Unless something has changed, unknown to me, we are taking questions nominated for priority and the first is Question No. 106. Are you dealing with that, Minister?
Yes, I will deal with the question.
Everything has changed. We need answers to these questions-----
I will deal with that question but I also want to say that I do plan to make a further statement in relation to issues involving the 2016 general election campaign and matters that were put to me last night.
Deputy Mairéad Farrell to respond.
I have asked a number of questions but I have not received a response. This is the perfect opportunity. It is the Minister's first set of ministerial questions as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and his first parliamentary questions this year. This is the perfect opportunity. The Minister knows the answers to these questions. He can give us the answers to these questions. I do not understand the view that it would be beneficial for him not to answer these questions here today.
Deputy Farrell, I called you for the question.
I have listed a few and I ask the Minister to answer them.
On a point of order-----
One moment. Deputy Farrell, I called you for the question that is on the Order Paper.
Does the Acting Chairman understand that I have already had my first 30 seconds and this is now my second contribution? The Minister had come in and I have asked the Minister to-----
The Minister responded and it is now up to the Deputy to come back and-----
Yes, and I have asked the Minister to answer the questions but he has not done so. I can give him a whole range of questions. The reality is that the Minister has the answers to these questions and he has the opportunity in this Dáil to answer them. We are dealing with ministerial questions to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. There are questions to be answered. The Minister refused to do it yesterday and he has the perfect opportunity to do it today so why does he not do so?
Deputy Nash, did you want to raise a point of order? Please make sure it is a point of order.
The Minister has said he will make a further statement in relation to his 2016 statement to the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO. When does he plan to do that? Has he made that request directly to the Ceann Comhairle?
Thank you, Deputy. That is not a point of order. Take your seat, please.
It is a point of order.
If the Minister could clarify, it would be helpful to move this section of our business on.
It might well be but it is not a point of order. Take your seat, please.
On a point of order----
Yes, Deputy.
This is a point of order, as is the point made by Deputy Nash, in my view. If the order of this House is going to be changed to facilitate the Minister answering questions-----
There is no question of the order being changed. That is not a matter for now, Deputy.
With respect, a Minister of the Government has just announced that he is going to make a further statement. On a point of order, I want to know if the order of this House is going to be changed-----
You can raise that with your Whip, I would imagine.
I am raising it now because-----
No, you can raise it with your Whip, Deputy.
I am raising it now.
We cannot change the order today. We cannot change the order at the moment-----
The Minister----
I cannot change the order.
With respect, the Minister-----
You cannot change the order. Therefore, it is not a point of order. Please take your seat.
Actually, the Minister can change the order.
The Minister cannot change the order. The House changes the order, as you will be very much aware, Deputy. It is not as if you are only here a wet week. Now, take your seat please so we can move on with the business of the day.
With respect, the House has to have a proposal and that can only come from the Government.
There is no proposal. Take your seat, please.
I want clarification.
Take it up with your Whip, who can raise it with the other Whips at the Business Committee.
The Minister has announced on the floor of the Dáil that he is going to make a further statement.
Take your seat, Deputy. I want to move on with the business of the day. There are important questions-----
A statement has been made and clarification is required.
-----on the Order Paper. Take a seat please, Deputy.
This is unbelievable.
The Minister did indicate that he was prepared to answer my question.
Deputy Nash, take your seat please.
I refer to my direct question as to when he intends to make a statement and if he has made the request-----
Deputy, take your seat please. It is entirely within the Minister's gift-----
I have no doubt that the Minister would be happy to answer that very clear question.
Deputy, do not speak over me please. It is entirely a matter for the Minister to respond, in the way in which he deems appropriate, to the question on the Order Paper. The question that is before us is No. 106. Deputy Farrell has responded to the Minister. Do you have anything further to add, Minister?
I just want to reiterate that I do intend to make a further statement to the House. I will do so at the earliest possible opportunity, at which point I will revert to the Ceann Comhairle.
Thank you very much. We will move on to Priority Question No. 107 in the name of Deputy Berry.
Defence Forces
Cathal Berry
Question:107. Deputy Cathal Berry asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the amount that was returned unspent by the Department of Defence from 2022; if any of this money was from pay savings due to the significantly under strength Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2528/23]
I thank the Minister for that point of clarification. My question relates to the defence budget. Specifically, I would like to know if any unspent money was returned to the Exchequer by the Department of Defence at the end of last year. If so, where did that money come from? Was it from so-called pay savings, whereby the underspend in defence was as a result of the Defence Forces being under strength? Such savings are normally used for alternative purposes like capital expenditure or equipment.
As the Deputy will be aware, the annual defence sector budget, comprising Vote 35, Army pensions, and Vote 36, defence, is determined within the overarching budgetary framework and approved by Dáil Eireann, having regard to the level of resources available and defence policy requirements, with multi-annual capital envelopes determined as part of the overarching national development plan, NDP. It should be noted that 2022 expenditure figures are not yet definitive. Provisional outturn figures for last year are due next month and the appropriation accounts are due for publication in September. My response to the Deputy's question is given with that caveat.
The expenditure returns for December indicate a total gross underspend of €1.58 million in 2022 on the Army pensions Vote. The expenditure returns for the defence Vote indicate a total gross underspend of €497,000 in 2022. The underspend is mainly attributable to pay savings which arose due to the actual strength numbers being significantly below the target establishment strength of 9,500 personnel.
In previous years, a long-standing arrangement existed by which pay funding was allocated for establishment Permanent Defence Force, PDF, numbers of 9,500. However, this funding model was changed for Estimates 2023 in the circumstances where actual numbers were considerably lower than the establishment number and stood at 8,049 at the end of November 2022.
Estimates 2023 allocated an additional €93 million towards the defence Vote group. Pay is now allocated for actual numbers and expected recruitment intake in 2023. For 2023, a net additional 400 recruits is projected for the Defence Forces. Pay savings of approximately €26 million arose in 2022 in respect of the PDF. With appropriate consents, the majority of these pay savings were reallocated to address spending pressures elsewhere, including Defence Forces capability development for the purchase of defensive equipment, aircraft, naval vessels and consumables.
The Department of Defence has advised that there were over 7,000 applications to join the Defence Forces in 2022. The Commission on the Defence Forces published its report in February 2022. The Government published its response and associated high-level action plan in July last year. My Department has now sanctioned all three early action pay measures, with some further actions under analysis. I am committed to supporting a modern and effective Defence Force. My Department is represented on a high-level steering board and implementation oversight group which will provide additional support for the implementation of the action plan.
I thank the Minister for that detailed response. There are a lot of figures there. I will try to get my head around it. I tabled the question arising from an article by Ken Foxe, published in the Irish Independent on 1 January, in which he outlined correspondence between Jacqui McCrum, Secretary General of the Department of Defence, and presumably the Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I am looking for clarity on whether the recoupment of those pay savings apply to 2022 or 2023. My understanding from the Minister's reply is that they will be applied prospectively in dealing with 2023 only, and not 2022. I emphasise that it is obvious the Defence Forces are in desperate need of funding. If approximately €30 million is taken out of the budget for 2023, perhaps we might be able to allocate that somewhere else from the outset. I will read the Minister's detailed response and may follow up with him afterwards.
I thank the Deputy. The aim of the decision that has been made here, which I believe is the right one, is to put in place a more realistic assumption regarding what recruitment will be in the time ahead so that it is a better foundation on which to build the Estimate for the Defence Forces and the Department of Defence. As the Deputy is aware, there is a commission in place with regard to how we can strengthen the Defence Forces. I thank him for his involvement in that. It has led to a number of commitments being made regarding spending in the time ahead. In that context, it appears appropriate, therefore, to have a more realistic recruitment number in place, off which we can better plan this Estimate.
For clarity, I wish to emphasise in my final wrap-up that Ireland spends approximately one third of the EU norm on defence. This funding is desperately needed. The Minister referred to the modernisation and reform programme announced only six months ago that has to be funded. The war in Ukraine is likely to intensify significantly in March, with spring offensives. We have no idea where that will end up. We desperately need this money. I will read the Minister's written response and follow up afterwards.
We are very much aware of the competing pressures the Defence Forces are facing at the moment and the changing security environment the country is in. As I stated, it appears to me that good practice is being asserted here in ensuring there is a feasible figure in place regarding recruitment. In the context of the other commitments that have now been made to the Defence Forces, this appears to be a very appropriate and realistic decision to make. I look forward to engaging with the Deputy on the matter in the time ahead.
Construction Industry
Mairéad Farrell
Question:108. Deputy Mairéad Farrell asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his plans to increase construction sector capacity in order to better deliver on the targets of the national development plan. [63832/22]
The Minister said he will make a statement. Will there be a questions and answers session? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered.
The Deputy is wasting her own time.
Will it be a questions and answers session?
If the Deputy chooses to do so, that is her business. She is wasting her own time.
Absolutely not. These are questions that need to be answered. I am asking the Minister whether he will facilitate a questions and answers session or if it will be a statement again.
I invite the Minister to respond on the question tabled on the Question Paper.
I reiterate what I have already said: I plan to make a further statement. I have not yet indicated to the Ceann Comhairle when that will be but, of course, the decision to grant that is his. At the earliest opportunity, I want to make a further statement on the matter and ensure the information I am sharing is as accurate as possible. A regards the format of that, I have not yet reached that point. Obviously, much of it is at the discretion of the Ceann Comhairle. I wish to again indicate my intention to give further information on the matter.
Sometimes we need to learn from our mistakes in a lot of different ways. The Minister will have learned from this week that a questions and answers session in the Dáil is what is needed. I would have thought this, as the Minister's first time taking questions in the Dáil as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, would be the perfect opportunity for that. I will read out some of the questions so that if the Minister is not doing questions and answers, he can at least include them in his statement. He should be taking part in a questions and answers session, however. For example, a question he was asked four times yesterday is whether Michael Stone paid people to put up posters for him.
Deputy, you are wasting the House's time and your own.
I have 35 seconds left, a Chathaoirligh.
You do, but on the question.
I have 35 seconds. Go raibh maith agat.
We are dealing with Question No. 108. I will read it out if necessary.
Did Michael Stone pay people to put up posters for the Minister in the 2020 general election?
There is a question on the Question Paper. If the Deputy does not wish to delay with the question, we will move on to the next Deputy. I am sure Deputy McNamara would appreciate not being rushed at the end of his opportunity to address-----
I do not think that at the start-----
The question is on the Question Paper before us. Everybody can read it in. The Minister can respond if the Deputy lets him do so. I have asked the Minister to respond-----
The Minister failed to respond yesterday. There are questions that need to be asked.
I asked the Minister to respond on the question. He has not done so. I will give him another opportunity but then I will have to move on. If the Deputy is going to debate a matter that is not before-----
My time is up. It is the Minister's turn.
If you are going to debate a matter that is not before the House at this moment, I will have to move on. Those are the rules of the House.
My time is up.
If the Minister wishes to respond to the question that is on the Question Paper, I am happy to facilitate that.
I am happy to emphasise the key points relating to the question that is on the Question Paper. My written response lays out the work that is under way to increase capacity within the construction sector. It looks at the work that is being led by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, through his Department. It makes reference to the construction sector group and the work that is under way to build investment there, and notes the work that is under way in the capital works management framework, looking at how we can better strengthen the role of the Office of Government Procurement to further increase the capacity of the construction sector in the time ahead.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House.
Developing construction sector capacity is a key priority of the Government to deliver on the projects outlined in the NDP, as published by my Department in 2021.
This is achieved through increasing the number of apprenticeships and upskilling and reskilling opportunities in order to boost construction sector capacity. The Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has set out its vision in the Action Plan for Apprenticeship 2021–2025, which has an overall target of 10,000 apprenticeships per annum across all disciplines. In addition, comprehensive changes have already been made to the employment permit system, open to non-European Economic Area workers, which ensures that almost all occupations in the construction sector are now eligible for a general employment permit.
The promotion of careers in the construction sector amongst Leaving Cert students and college graduates is currently being actioned. This is delivered through actions in the Building Innovation Report set out by the Construction Sector Group, CSG, and is a joint effort with the key players of the construction sector and Government Departments. In addition, under Housing for All, an action plan to promote careers in construction will also be developed by Q2 this year and is being led by the Department for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science.
As I have indicated, we recognise the importance of apprenticeship as a key supply of talent into the construction sector and have continued to invest in training and apprenticeships, delivering supports to employers and making it easier for employers and apprentices to engage with the system. In 2022, almost 5,000 apprentices working across skills in the construction sector were registered.
The growing need for green skills in the construction sector is supported with a number of collaborative industry-focused educational and training opportunities now available. In total, over 4,500 retrofit and near zero energy building standard, NZEB, places and 60,000 green skills places are being provided with centres of excellence in Laois-Offaly, Waterford-Wexford and Limerick-Clare Education and Training Boards now in place. Centres of excellence will be opened shortly in Cork and Mayo-Sligo-Leitrim ETBs.
Driving productivity is also imperative to increasing construction capacity. The Construction Sector Group is working on seven actions to increase innovation and productivity of the sector. As part of this, my department has awarded a grant of €2.5 million to the establishment of the Build Digital Project led by TU Dublin and partners. The aim of the project will be to transform the Irish construction and built environment sectors by enabling all stakeholders, particularly SMEs, clients and suppliers, to develop, maintain and improve continuously their digital capabilities.
Another action has been the establishment of a Construction Technology Centre, known as Construct Innovate, which will be led by the University of Galway. The centre has been received funding of €5 million over five years from Enterprise Ireland. The centre will be a R&D centre of excellence for the construction industry.
Finally, I want to add that a Capital Works Management Framework review is ongoing by the Office of Government Procurement. This will look at setting minimum standards for the information necessary for each stage of a project's development and also looking at means to measure the performance of a project and its key actors during the course of its delivery and beyond into its operation and maintenance. Taken together, these initiatives will increase construction sector capacity in the period ahead.
I thank the Minister. Deputy Farrell, it is entirely in your hands if you wish to respond to that.
I have been clear regarding what I believe needs to be discussed today because we did not get answers to the questions yesterday. A Chathaoirligh, the-----
I cannot change the Order Paper, Deputy. I have already said that.
I am not asking you to change the Order Paper. I am asking the Minister to answer the questions he should have answered yesterday. He really needs to do a questions and answers session next week and not just give further statements.
Okay. I am going to move to Deputy McNamara to introduce Question No. 109.
Flexible Work Practices
Michael McNamara
Question:109. Deputy Michael McNamara asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the steps that are being taken to implement the right to work from home in the Civil Service; the systems that are in place to ensure there is no resultant diminution of the output of the Civil Service; the way the impact on civil servants and the output of the Civil Service is being monitored; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2614/23]
What steps are being taken to implement the right to work from home in the Civil Service? What systems are in place to ensure there is no resultant diminution in the output of the Civil Service? What systems are in place to monitor the impact of the right to work from home on civil servants individually and collectively, but also on the output of the Civil Service?
The Deputy will be aware that the programme for Government contains a commitment to mandating public sector employers to move to 20% home and remote working. In this context, my Department, in collaboration with Civil Service employers, trade unions and staff associations, developed a blended working policy framework for Civil Service organisations which was published in March. The framework focused on the longer term approach to remote working in the Civil Service and has been shared with public service employers with a view to providing a consistent approach across the wider public service. This is a key step taken by my Department in this important area to support the long-term implementation of blended working options for civil servants.
The framework provides broad strategic direction to individual Departments and offices in the Civil Service to develop tailored policies on blended working that are appropriate to their business needs. In developing their own blended working policies Civil Service Departments and offices have the flexibility to determine matters such as the roles that are suitable for blended working and the proportion of time individual employees work remotely compared with on site. Remote working will not be available to employees on a 100% basis as some physical attendance at workplaces will be required to facilitate face-to-face meetings, training and other key events deemed necessary by the employer.
It seems from the Minister's response that there is a certain degree of an ad hoc response. Inevitably, a certain discretion has to be allowed to every employer, Department and section within Departments right across the Civil Service and, indeed, the public service. On the other hand, the right to work from home poses a significant challenge to management in the Civil Service in particular. Obviously, it is important to ensure there is no diminution of service to the public as well as making sure the workforce is facilitated in working from home where possible. That will require management systems, however. I could be wrong but I do not think management is an Irish forte, particularly in the civil and public service, or, at least, if it is, we have failed to demonstrate it of late. This is not just an issue raised by the Opposition; it has also been recognised by those on the Government back benches. There is a perception that it is now much more difficult to get through to public services and the Civil Service on the telephone, for example.
That is not blaming individual civil servants, but if what is perceived is the reality, management systems have to be put in place to ensure it is not.
I would not describe the arrangement that is in place as being in any way ad hoc but would describe it as varied. It is the case that, within our public service, we have so many roles available, as the Deputy will know better than I do. We are trying to have a framework in place that allows a minimum amount of discretion to work from home but also guarantees that public services are maintained while working arrangements change.
I am aware of some of the feedback on the quality of public services and the ability to gain access to public servants. The Government will introduce a public service and public sector reform strategy. As part of that, it will address the issue of how we can maintain a service for citizens at a time when work practices are changing.
To go back to my original question, what systems are in place to monitor the output? I have given a certain amount of feedback, as have other Deputies, but it is inevitably anecdotal. I accept it is difficult to monitor the output of the Civil Service, including sections and Departments, but it is crucial that it be monitored nevertheless. It is also crucial to monitor and get feedback on the impact, be it positive or negative, on individual civil servants in addition to the Civil Service collectively from a workforce point of view. I would expect it to be positive but do not know. Is there a system in place to monitor the output, the length of telephone calls, the proportion of telephone calls and emails being answered and the time in which they are being answered, not just at switchboard level but substantively, since the move to remote working? Is there any change in the output?
That information exists. It is captured for organisations such as the Revenue Commissioners when they examine how they respond to communications. I do not have the detail on the various parts of our civil and public services.
To deal with the Deputy's question on the framework in place, it is, as I referred to in the early part of my answer, the Blended Working Policy Framework for Civil Service Organisations. Appendix B of that framework, which concerns the role of the people manager, lays out expectations regarding how blended working can be delivered while also ensuring those individuals who change their work practices adhere to the expectations in place. A matter I will consider in the time ahead is how we can better capture and measure the output of our public services when work practices are changing all over the country, including in our public services.
Departmental Expenditure
Richard O'Donoghue
Question:110. Deputy Richard O'Donoghue asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the reason the Department of Rural and Community Development was allocated voted capital and current expenditure of only €331 million or 0.45% of the overall voted allocation in 2022 at a time when regional and rural infrastructure is creaking at the seams and many rural services are subpar or non-existent when compared with urban areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2526/23]
Why was the Department of Rural and Community Development allocated voted capital and current expenditure funding of only €331 million, which is 0.45% of the overall voted allocation in 2022, at a time when regional and rural infrastructure is creaking at the seams and many rural services are non-existent by comparison with those in urban areas?
Supporting rural Ireland is a major cross-governmental policy objective and priority. However, the amounts allocated to the Department of Rural and Community Development are themselves but a fraction of what we invest in our regions and local communities. For example, the figures the Deputy referred to do not include how much we spend in schools located in rural communities, nor do they include rural bus networks, primary care centres or health facilities located outside our larger cities. I differ from the Deputy regarding the inference I think he is making, which is that the key way in which money is spent in rural communities is through the Department of Rural and Community Development. In reality, it is only a very small part of overall Government expenditure. It is the priority of every Department to focus on communities, both rural and urban.
According to the Minister's own estimates at the year's end, there was a surplus of €5 billion recorded in 2022. Tax revenue in 2022 stood at €83 billion, which was €15 billion, or 21.5%, ahead of the figure for the same period in the preceding year. This should have a good news story. Why does it not transfer to everyone? Where did the money go? Who has suffered? We have a strong income tax receipt, up to 40% over that of the previous year. Surely, delivering rural infrastructure and critical services across the region should be a priority. I am talking about sewerage and water facilities, which are being upgraded only, not added to. That means we cannot build houses in our rural towns and villages. That means people cannot locate in them or support business and the school and transport networks.
If the Deputy examines the expenditure of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, he will see it is over €2 billion. I believe it is €2.2 billion. It goes without saying that all of that supports our rural communities and agriculture sector. The amounts pertaining to the Department of Rural and Community Development, which is an important Department, add to the large amounts already spent by other Departments in supporting rural Ireland. That said, the amount of money allocated for rural development programmes under the Department of Rural and Community Development began at €80 million in 2017 and now stands at €202 million. Therefore, there has been a huge increase in the funding streams that go to that Department, but, as I said, it forms only a very small share of the overall expenditure on rural Ireland.
Why in a year of plenty have our rural towns and villages suffered at the Minister's hands? I have highlighted so many times that there is a need for investment in basic services, such as water and sewerage plants. Let our people have houses and progress the building plan in the areas affected. Builders cannot provide homes where there are no basic services. It is not that hard to understand. Askeaton has been waiting 33 years for a sewerage system to be upgraded. Foynes and Glin are in the same category. In Dromcollogher, there is sewage going into the river. This is not what I want. I want infrastructure. In Oola, houses cannot be built. Hospital got 26 houses but six have their own sewerage facilities on site because there was no capacity. This is what I am talking about. If we build sewerage and water infrastructure in these places, we can build houses, which in turn support all businesses and schools across the network. That is the investment I am talking about. Askeaton has been waiting for 33 years and there is sewage flowing straight into the Shannon. That is not the only place. The River Deel has also been polluted. That is where I want investment.
Now that I have been reunited with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, in another Department, I can say there is no greater champion of expenditure in rural Ireland, including the part of the Deputy, than him. I have no doubt that, in the time ahead, he will continue to make the case for the priorities the Deputy has referred to. I will certainly do my best to help. I am well aware of the difficulty of making a case for not spending money when there is so much within our society and rural Ireland that needs support and further progress. I understand that point entirely, but what we are doing is increasing, year by year, the amount the Government is spending. In doing so, we are making every effort to prioritise rural Ireland and respond to the needs of the citizens to which the Deputy is referring. Colleagues such as the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, and Deputy Ring are always making the case for that investment. We have made big differences and have made big increases in expenditure. I will do my bit to maintain that progress and continue to make progress on the priorities the Deputy has referred to.