Apprenticeship and Further Education and Training: Statements

Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Simon Harris)

At the outset, I apologise, as I will not be able to stay for all of the debate. The Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, will be present for most of it. I will have to leave to attend a Cabinet committee.

I welcome the opportunity to update the House on important issues regarding apprenticeships and further education and training, FET. I am pleased we have the opportunity to explore these issues in the Dáil. These are areas on which we need to shine a light. They have a key role to play in our future economic and social well-being and meeting the skills needs of the country.

The Government’s ambition for apprenticeship and further and higher education is at the heart of its response to key economic, societal and environmental objectives and priorities. Success in building a strong and effective national apprenticeship system and ensuring the FET sector realises its full potential must be central to the delivery of key Government strategies. The far-seeing decision taken almost three years ago to establish a dedicated Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science with a strong mandate to focus, in particular, on skills, apprenticeships and FET was a key milestone in recognising their crucial role.

The recent national economic dialogue, NED, which took place two weeks ago, highlighted the importance of adopting a medium-term perspective to explore how best to ensure a sustainable future for all. It highlighted the need to respond to what the OECD’s recent review of Ireland’s skills system referred to as the mega-trends of digitisation, decarbonisation and demographic change. Apprenticeships and further education have unique roles to play in many ways in ensuring that we are not just reacting to challenges as they arise but, rather, energetically, proactively and strategically working to secure opportunities provided by the transformation of the labour force, economy and country, transformations that are now well under way and in many ways accelerating. Apprenticeships and further education are two signature examples of the approach being adopted and delivered in practice through the implementation of the action plan for apprenticeships and Future FET: Transforming Learning, the further education and training strategy.

A strong conclusion that draws from the three years I have had the privilege of being Minister is that the ground has shifted significantly in terms of the positive perception and positioning of apprenticeships and FET among students and learners, their families, employers and communities. I can see this in the data. More people than ever before are registering to become apprentices. Pathways are being developed between further education and higher education. There are now real opportunities to embed apprenticeships and FET not as something separate from our third level system but, rather, at the core of tertiary education. This is heartening. It reinforces my conviction that those strategies and plans are the right things to do. To deliver fully on the ambition for apprenticeship and FET, however, I share the assessment that no doubt will be offered in the House today, namely, that an awful lot more needs to be done.

In the time available to me, I wish to emphasise the progress we have made but also the progress that remains to be made and the imperative of building on it. I look forward to Deputies having the opportunity to outline their views, insights and suggestions as we advance in partnership to the achievement of the objectives we share for these sectors.

We have tried to place an unrelenting focus on the issue of apprenticeships. In 2022, record numbers of people registered. This year, we expect to do even better. I am pleased to tell the House that we are on course to have 9,000 newly-registered apprentices this year. This is a major achievement. Deputies may remember that we set a target of having 10,000 newly-registered apprentices each year by 2025.

I believe we are now running ahead of that target. It could be possible to hit that in 2024; certainly if we get 9,000 new apprentices registered this year. For many years, and maybe still a little bit today, there has sometimes been a snobbery or a perception around apprenticeships which we must all work together to absolutely call out and knock down. When people consider what an apprenticeship is, they often think of it as a traditional craft apprenticeship. This is a very important role. It is a vital role in terms of building houses, retrofitting homes, and meeting the needs we have in the country. However, apprenticeships are also more than just our craft and traditional apprenticeships. We now have about 67 apprenticeship programmes in Ireland. I am not sure how many people know you can do a PhD, which is a level 10, as an apprentice. You can do a masters or a degree in science in Ireland as an apprentice. There is no reason in the wide earthly world a nursing degree should not be done in Ireland as an apprentice. It is still the degree programme but provided in a way that works for someone who perhaps would not be able to go back to college for four years full-time but could do it the apprenticeships way where they are earning while also learning and getting that same qualification. People can do an apprenticeship in insurance, in retail and in hairdressing, and very soon they will be able to start a digital marketing apprenticeship working in the public service for Government Departments. The expansion of apprenticeship programmes has resulted in a significant increase in the number of people choosing this alternative form of third level that we wish to mainstream. We are on the road to achieving this. As I have already mentioned, we had a record number of people registering in 2022. This year, we will beat that record and we are on course to have 9,000 new apprentices.

I take the opportunity in this debate around apprenticeships to acknowledge recent developments and a very difficult and upsetting development at Tara Mines. The closure is, of course, extremely disappointing, painful and understandably very worrying for all involved. I am very conscious that there are 32 apprentices in Tara Mines who are affected by this as well. I would like to assure them and the House that my officials and colleagues in SOLAS, Louth and Meath Education and Training Board, LMETB, Enterprise Ireland and other employers are working together to support them so that they can complete their programmes. I have been given an assurance that those mechanisms will be put in place. It is a priority for me and I am sure for everyone in this House and I assure the apprentices in question that we are working to provide a solution for them as quickly as possible. I know LMETB has had individual engagement with apprentices to explore supports and options. The education of those apprentices will not be impacted or affected by this sudden closure and I really want to stress that today.

The establishment of a dedicated Department for further education has, I hope, ignited an important conversation about the role of apprentices. Apprenticeships are such an important part of our education system now. As I have said, we now have 67 apprenticeship programmes, ranging from a sports turf level 6 apprenticeship, which is the newest, to wind turbine maintenance, to mention just a few. Later this year, we will roll out three new farming apprenticeships. This is a really exciting development and a real vote of confidence in the future of farming and agriculture in Ireland. I also say very clearly that we are open for new programmes. I often meet people who say we could do with an apprenticeship in X or Y. To be really clear, the way apprenticeship works is that industry comes forward and partners with an education provider in going to the National Apprenticeship Office. Therefore, I say to any employer following this debate today, whether they are involved in apprenticeships and believe there is an opportunity for another apprenticeship, or if they would like to create an apprenticeship, we are open for business and would like to see more programmes. We have already seen a very significant increase.

When it comes to the issue of making our apprenticeship population more diverse, this is really important as well. The expanding range of opportunities available within apprenticeships, as well as changing work practices in traditional areas, have provided a step towards increasing opportunity for traditionally under-represented groups. Females have been significantly under-represented in apprenticeships, as have people with disabilities and those from minority communities. As of the end of May of this year, there are 1,837 female apprentices. This is up from 60 in 2016. There is no zero missing there; there were 60 female apprentices in 2016. The figure is also up from 665 at the end of 2019 and now represents 7% of the overall apprentice population. This figure is still very low and needs to be an awful lot higher, but we have seen that increase, and quite a significant increase in a short period of time, mainly due to the expansion of apprenticeships into new areas. Four financial services apprenticeships now have 54% female participation, as an example. Women also feature more strongly in the new apprenticeships in the hospitality, healthcare, property, sales, recruitment, biopharma and ICT sectors. However, it is also important to note that female representation in craft apprenticeship has more than doubled in the last three years. This is important progress but we need to do more. That is the reason I have introduced a new gender-based bursary of €2,666 for any apprenticeship employer who employs an apprentice in the minority gender on any national apprenticeship programme with greater than 80% representation of a single gender. I would really encourage employers to avail of that funding to help us to change the tide and create a more equal apprenticeship population.

If we are really serious about access to apprenticeships and equality, we have to recognise that for some people in Ireland who have not had a good experience with the education system, or perhaps have not had a traditional education in their family or their community, it is not enough to throw them into a full apprenticeship and wish them the best of luck. We need to put support structures around them. One of the best programmes I have seen running in the education and training space is a programme called access to apprenticeships. I am sure many Deputies are aware of it. I encourage those who are not to come across it. This is an opportunity that provides a bursary of €3,000 for participants, but it does an awful lot more than that. It actually gives people tasters in apprenticeship. It allows people to try out different sorts of apprenticeships and puts a support structure around them. There is nothing more rewarding than to attend a graduation of people who have come through the access to apprenticeship course and to hear how that apprenticeship programme has changed not only their lives but also the lives of their families and their communities, and has provided so much hope.

I want to address the issue of apprenticeship pay. I know this is an important issue that has been raised by colleagues. Indeed, I note the Private Members' motion from the Labour Party on this matter. I am aware people have been raising real concerns on this. I assure them that this is an area of significant concern and interest to me, given that apprentices are currently excluded from the provisions of the National Minimum Wage Act 2000. I recognise and acknowledge the importance of the legal instruments and industrial relations agreements in place which currently govern apprentice pay rates. However, the fundamental issue is that payment of sub-minimum rates of pay to some apprentices, in addition to the climate in which we are now living where there are serious cost-of-living challenges, runs the risk of undermining the case that apprenticeship is a valued option and could well have the effect of discouraging someone from taking up an apprenticeship. We cannot have a situation where somebody in the workplace feels they would be, and indeed on some occasions would be, financially worse off in the short term by moving to an apprenticeship programme. I acknowledge-----

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

They are worse off.

Deputy Simon Harris

They are. That is what I have just acknowledged. I acknowledge this in the House because is not enough to identify problems in this place; we must also look at how best to fix them. I have asked my own Department to continue its consultation with the stakeholders. I have met the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and others in relation to this in order to examine the implications for recruiting and retaining apprentices, particularly in light of the scale of demand for key craft workers in the construction sector. This analysis will carefully consider the current pay landscape and any implications and avoid any unintended consequences. I hope this work can be done over the summer so we can try to advance this and have an informed conversation on the best way to proceed in time for the budget.

I also acknowledge what has been known as the apprenticeship Covid-19 backlog. I will be clear on this because it is a real issue for people. We have seen record numbers of people seeking to become apprentices but we have also seen a global pandemic that shut down education and training for a significant period of time. I thank SOLAS and particularly individual trainers and ETBs, and people who have gone above and beyond in working with us to provide additional capacity to work through that backlog. That Covid-19 backlog peaked at approximately 11,000 people. It is now down to just over 5,000 and SOLAS has told me it has a plan in place to seek to eradicate that backlog during the remainder of this year. Along with the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, I am keeping in very close contact with SOLAS on that.

I want to highlight some significant developments in further education and training, FET. My commitment to further education and training could not be greater. I believe passionately in it. When I was appointed to this Department for 24 hours it was called the Department of higher education, research and innovation or something like that. We changed the title because the idea that we would further silo away a part of our tertiary education system should run contrary to what we all want to achieve in this House. We need to develop, strength and grow further education and training. This is pivotal to the goal of ensuring everyone, regardless of their background, age, gender, ability, address and what their parents did before them, can reach their full potential. It is a major priority for me personally against the backdrop of the establishment of my Department. I acknowledge the very ambitious and effective strategy put in place by SOLAS, Future FET: Transforming Learning, which shapes and guides our work. This year we are investing just over €1 billion through the Exchequer and the National Training Fund to progress the vision of the strategy.

Increasingly, further education and training is more broadly recognised as the high-quality, dynamic and learner-centric sector it really is. It is a sector that can provide a great launching pad for learners, both those commencing their career journey and those already embarked on it. Under the FET strategy, priorities are set out across three core pillars; namely, building skills, creating pathways and fostering inclusion. Very substantial progress has been made in delivering objectives and this is reflected in the fact that our 16 ETBs now have strategic performance agreements with SOLAS to help to advance the strategy at a regional level. Information on FET along with apprenticeship options is now provided on the CAO website. There used to be this bonkers idea that when young people who were seeking information on what to do post school logged on to cao.ie to apply and the only thing we were telling them about was how to go to university.

It is terribly important and it works for many people, but it was like we were talking about FET and apprenticeships in hushed tones. It was utterly unacceptable. I believe it led to an increase in mental health, well-being and anxiety challenges among young people. One can see the pressure of the points race etched on their faces. FET is on the CAO website now. Crucially, people can apply to FET colleges through the CAO website. That helps with awareness, with parity of esteem and with supporting our guidance counsellors, teachers and parents in providing all the information to students. I thank the CAO and others who have worked with us. We must continue to enhance the visibility of FET. It is not acceptable that every year we see league tables showing how many students went to university but not how many went on to do an apprenticeship or a FET course. That is not the fault of the media that compile the tables, but we need to look at a way of recognising schools that excel and place a value on FET and apprenticeships as well. I am actively considering how best to do this.

I am conscious there is incredible work under way in FET, but I am embarrassed about the infrastructure some people are working in. When we travel around FET colleges, we meet people working in buildings - perhaps former secondary schools that are deemed to no longer be appropriate for such a school - that now house the local college of further education. I have met many of the Deputies present in their constituencies in these scenarios. I am pleased we now have a substantial level of capital funding to invest in FET capital infrastructure, for the first time in the living memory of anyone I can find who has worked in FET. The FET college of the future programme has selected ten locations around the country in which to develop major new FET centres. The next phase is for all of them to submit business cases by September and then we can get on with this programme. ETBs that were successful at the first stage are currently developing their proposals and it is expected these proposals will be submitted to SOLAS for evaluation by the end of September. We also have the strategic infrastructure upgrade fund, which is providing significant investment that will modernise and upgrade FET infrastructure. Looking around the Chamber, I can think of many constituencies that have benefited from a new FET college of the future. There will be one in Galway, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, and I can advise Deputy O’Reilly there is one going to Swords as well. It is an area that badly needs this capacity. This is a key aspect of not just saying FET is important, but actually trying to support it.

We have put in place a fund for educational disadvantage. This arose during Covid and worked so well that we decided to embed it as a core part of what we were doing. For the fourth year we have an annual allocation under the Reach fund, with over €5 million available in 2023 to support educationally disadvantaged learners in community education with transport or education costs, access to technology, community Internet access and so on. Community education providers tell me the fund has been vital in providing access to education at community level and has been part of a wider strategy to invest in community education.

FET plays an especially important role through the implementation of our ten-year adult literacy for life, ALL, strategy. This is an important point. We boast about being a knowledge-based economy, and we are. We boast about having a very high participation rate in third level and that is also true, but beneath those truths and headline statistics are other truths. We still live in a country where one in five adults struggles to read, one in four struggles with numeracy skills and one in two lacks basic digital skills. They should not feel the shame or stigma they feel from time to time. It is our collective shame that these people did not have the educational opportunities many others did. The ALL strategy is pulling together all stakeholders. It is funded. There is a new literacy office and a new director of the strategy working within SOLAS as well. We now have ALL regional literacy co-ordinators in each part of the country developing regional literacy plans and asking what we do in our community to tackle literacy needs. We have a €1 million innovation and collaboration fund. I am pleased to say that calls for this fund attracted significant engagement and participation with many high-quality proposals from civil society and NGOs, which will support collaborative programmes, including digital literacy projects, to address those with literacy needs as well.

Deputy Ó Murchú is here and will probably raise support for students with disabilities in FET. We have many conversations around this and around the importance of personal assistants. I have asked my Department to do a significant body of work with SOLAS around how we embed good practice in supporting students with disabilities. I look forward to meeting the group the Deputy is bringing to see me about this issue shortly.

I conclude by thanking everyone who works in FET, in apprenticeships, in SOLAS and in all the ETBs. This is an area that was left as the poor relation of third level education for too long. Against that backdrop, it has still achieved incredible things. Now we are very much putting it up in lights by increasing our funding, putting in place capital programmes and, crucially, providing pathways to move between further education and higher education. Fifteen degree programmes are being launched this year where the learner will start the degree in further education and then be able to finish the degree in university outside the points system. We need to embed these sorts of diverse pathways. If they work this year, we will look to accelerate them the following September.

We have got to change the conversation. We have got to explain to people what they know in their hearts and guts, which is that success comes in many forms. It is not about people doing in college what their granny thinks is a good idea or what their brother did before them. It is about people finding what they are interested in and what difference they want to make in their community, society and country and going for it. We need to ensure that there are many different ways of getting there, including apprenticeships, further education and higher education, and that they work together in a unified way. I am committed to continuing to work with all stakeholders and all people and parties in this House to ensure we can support the apprenticeship and FET system to reach its full potential. If we do that, our economy, society and citizens will benefit now and into the future.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

As the Minister mentioned, there are currently about 67 apprenticeship programmes available throughout the State and the intention is to increase that further. I recognise progress has been made in recent years in expanding the range and typologies of apprenticeships on offer. That is welcome. My mother is from Germany and sometimes it sounds a bit clichéd when we reference the German apprenticeship model and other models, but that is only because it is something of a truism. Why would we not want to look towards those who have a good track record, use apprenticeship models for a whole range of different career paths and career choices, and utilise the concept of not having to do an equivalent to the leaving certificate because there are different types of opportunity out there for good jobs?

Returning to this State, we have two categories of apprenticeship, namely, the craft and the consortia. The former are those most people associate with traditional construction, such as electricians, carpenters, plumbers and so on. The latter are the newer types that began in 2016 and offer broad opportunities in healthcare, biopharma, IT, HR, accountancy, finance, logistics, supply chains, sales, hairdressing, hospitality, food, etc. While are we are making good progress for this category of apprentices, we are not doing as well for our construction-type apprentices. Research published last December shows 30,000 additional apprentices are required by 2030 to help achieve the goals under Housing for All, climate action and retrofitting. As the Minister will be aware, we have not been reaching our targets in recent years. Much like our housing targets, our apprenticeship targets need further ambition and are failing to achieve the limited aspirations we have already set. We will not tackle the housing crisis without having the necessary construction workers, but I realise we are all aware of this. I recognise that additional funding is being provided this year. If I am not mistaken, an additional €13 million will be provided to increase the number of training places. I am interested in hearing how this will be tackled to address the various bottlenecks in the apprenticeship system, given that despite increases in funding and Government strategies to increase the overall numbers, there was a drop of more than 300 apprenticeship registrations last year when compared with 2021.

I hear what the Minister is saying about the need to get schools on board and to get it out there that this is something that provides good jobs and is extremely valuable for our society when we are trying to tackle the likes of the housing emergency. Covid played a part, but there has been an issue with poor apprenticeship uptake since long before the onset of the pandemic. An element of that is due to the financial crash and the fact so many people had to leave our shores. We are still seeing young people leave our shores, including young people qualified in third level and in further education. Young people with qualifications of all the different types are leaving our shores. With the backlogs in accessing on-the-job training it is taking longer for some apprentices to qualify.

As a result, they have a lower income for a longer period. At its peak in August 2021, there were over 11,000 apprentices waiting for their off-the-job training. I recognise that the Minister has managed to reduce that but it stood at almost 5,000 in December and today it is still above 4,600. We really need to clear this backlog. The majority of these apprentices are waiting to access phase 2 training, which occurs in the ETB centres. I have raised the issue with the Minister before of the need to attract qualified tradespeople to become apprenticeship educators. The ETBs will have told the Minister about the difficulty they have in attracting qualified people who can earn significantly more on the building sites. Those who do not want to continue on the building sites find other ways they can earn significantly more than they would working as trainers. I am sure the issue will be raised during the forthcoming public pay talks. That is a matter between Government and the trade unions. It will be interesting to see how it develops.

There needs to be renewed focus at the level of our local authorities and the national development plan. We need to see more craft apprenticeship opportunities. I know from answers to parliamentary questions that the local authorities are making good use of consortia apprenticeships in things like accountancy and cybersecurity, which is welcome. We also need to see more craft apprenticeship opportunities in their capital sections. Each and every one of us will know how long it can take for vacant local authority homes to be refurbished and made available for new tenants. It is an issue that all councils struggle with at different times. It is a huge challenge for housing maintenance issues in my constituency at the moment also. Perhaps we could examine how apprenticeships might help reduce turnaround times. On the national development plan, a report in 2016 recommended that the Government should have social clauses in all public works contracts. They would place an obligation on contractors to create a certain number of apprenticeships when completing construction contracts above a certain value. They are commonplace in other countries but we do not use them enough in a strategic way in the public procurement process, despite desires to the contrary. When I think of the various infrastructure projects set out in the national development plan, there is massive scope for apprenticeship opportunities. I know from work I did previously that they are not frequently used and knowledge of the potential these clauses have is very limited. It is not just a matter of sending out information packs to different councils. It really requires a circular.

There have been a number of announcements this week and in recent weeks which we need to see actively being followed through. We need to see the opportunities being made available, resources provided and targeted towards areas where there are bottlenecks. We know what they are. Accessing more trainers to deal with the backlog is something we could really look at as well, particularly based on what we are hearing about remuneration and competitiveness. The Minister mentioned the financial considerations for those entering apprenticeships, namely the fees and the sub-minimum wage rates. We all want to see more people able to come into apprenticeships. We want people to be able to get through their apprenticeships and go off and work. It has been raised with me on a number of occasions that young people feel trapped. They want to move on with their lives but cannot get the training they need to do so. They are on very little money. It is having a huge impact. All the societal problems we have, the housing crisis, the cost of living, all of that is going to have an impact on those young people as well.

Díreach chun é a rá i nGaeilge freisin, táimid tar éis teacht níos faide ná mar a bhí muid i dtéarmaí na bprintíseachtaí atá ann. Ar ndóigh, tá 67 ann faoi láthair. Tá fadhb le liostaí feithimh. Caithfimid cinntiú go mbeadh a fhios ag chuile dhuine go bhfuil an deis seo ann printíseacht a dhéanamh agus gur féidir leis nó léi jab fíormhaith a fháil agus cabhrú linn ar fad na tithe atá ag teastáil go géar a thógáil agus déileáil leis an easpa infreastruchtúir atá ann. Caithfimid cinntiú go bhfuil na Ranna difriúla ag obair le chéile. Más rud é go bhfuil a fhios againn go bhfuil muid chun an t-uafás airgid a chaitheamh ar thograí infreastruchtúir faoin national development plan, NDP, agus mar sin, ba chóir go mbreathnóimid ar an airgead sin agus an cheist a chur maidir leis an mbealach inar féidir linn é sinn a úsáid chun a chinntiú go bhfuil printíseachtaí ann don dream óg sa cheantar ina bhfuil an t-airgead sin á chaitheamh. Más áit iargúlta é, ba chóir go mbeadh an deis sin acu agus go mbeadh siad in ann fanacht ina gceantar féin. Tá sé sin fíorthábhachtach. Ar ndóigh, caithfimid breathnú ar na daoine sin atá ag fanacht lena bprintíseachtaí a chríochnú. Ciallaíonn sé sin go gcaithfimid a chinntiú go bhfuil a ndóthain daoine ann chun iad a thraenáil. Chomh maith leis sin, caithfimid breathnú ar an airgead atá á fháil acu. Is iad sin an cúpla rud a gcaithfimid breathnú orthu agus déileáil leo.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I welcome the opportunity to say a few words. I want to start by speaking to the importance of apprenticeships to the State and the economy. It is really hard to overstate the benefits of our craft-based apprenticeship system. This applies at a macro level in terms of the quality of craft worker our apprenticeship system produces. I will hone in on issues affecting the system in due course. Our craft apprentices and workers are the envy of many other countries. These workers are trained to such an elite level they can travel anywhere in the world. I met young people who had come through the apprenticeship programme in Vancouver and San Francisco recently. They had no trouble finding work. Their qualifications speak ahead of them. They are known to be very well qualified. Our craft apprenticeship system is something we should really value. However, the fact that we are losing so many workers to other countries like Australia, Canada and the United States is a genuine worry. Their departures are enforced in many ways due to the cost of housing and rent in this State coupled with the cost of living. The result is that we are losing the craft workers necessary for resolving the housing crisis.

In addition, it is fair to say we do not have enough craft apprentices in training for the work ahead in resolving the housing crisis and delivering green and capital infrastructure projects. One of the reasons given for the difficulty attracting people into apprenticeships is the low level of remuneration during the early stages of the apprenticeship. Apprentices are excluded from the minimum wage in the early years of their apprenticeships and as a result, they are considerably less well off than young workers in other forms of employment. Apprentices tuning into this debate might think the whole world loves them. We are all love-bombing apprentices, we cannot say enough good things about them. Then they will look at their wages and wonder how much they are actually valued. Fine words cannot be spent in Tesco nor will they insulate anyone from the cost-of-living crisis. Issues like this damage the apprenticeship system across the board.

Last March, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, wrote to the Minister and expressed its view that the minimum wage exemption for apprenticeships, including craft apprenticeships, is no longer sustainable or fair, that it is counter-productive and should be abolished. Connect trade union has also pointed out that, in contrast to when the clause excluding the application of the minimum wage to apprentices was introduced into the National Minimum Wage Act, many of those now undertaking apprenticeships have already gone to college or undertaken other work. As a result, they are older than apprentices would have been previously. These are issues that must be addressed and resolved. Similar issues exist in consortia apprenticeships. For consortia-led apprenticeships, the pay is agreed between the employer and the apprentice and it can often be below the minimum wage. There are currently no available data on what these apprentices are being paid. It is an issue Sinn Féin has been raising for some time. Across both strands, apprentices can be paid significantly below the minimum wage. As well as the housing crisis, we are in the midst of a cost-of-living crisis. Apprentices are not immune to this.

In my remaining time I want to point to the significant opportunities that are afforded by the transition to green energy. The move to clean energy offers the opportunity to become self-sufficient and to create new jobs within this sector. I would add that the move to green energy should not be used as an opportunity to undermine our craft trades. Many of the jobs in this sector, while new, will still require craft apprenticeships and craft tradespeople. Granted, some of these workers may need to get a new ticket for the new type of work.

However, in many instances craft workers, with some slight additional training, have the skill set to complete the majority of this work. We cannot talk about green energy without talking about food security because an essential part of climate justice and climate action is being able to source our food close to hand. In that regard, I ask again that consideration be given to establishing an apprenticeship in horticulture. I spoke recently to growers living and working in my constituency in Fingal. They tell me there is a huge appetite but they are losing people who are going abroad where they acquire greater skills. These people are not coming back.

I ask again that the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, be given the powers to investigate compliance with the sectoral employment orders, SEOs, and employment regulation orders, EROs. The SCO and ERO rates are being undermined in the construction sector and no one at the Cabinet table seems to care. These rates are agreed with the contribution of the State and it is an insult to workers, trade unions and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment when these rates are not complied with. The WRC needs more inspectors who need to be empowered to investigate compliance with the SROs and EROs.

The Minister raised the shockingly low number of women in apprenticeships. I just want to mention Sandra who was the apprentice electrician or "lady electrician" as they called her in UCD. She was blazing a trail. She believed that many more women would come behind here. That is not the case. Work needs to be done.

Deputy Ged Nash

I am happy to contribute to this debate on behalf of the Labour Party. I welcome the Minister's commitments in regard to support for apprentices in Tara Mines. We hope there will not be the kind of lay-offs initially unilaterally announced by the company. We also hope progress can be made on all of those jobs and a solution will be found to the problems facing Tara Mines, with the support of the Government and the trade unions. I am pleased that the local ETB and SOLAS, with others, are supporting the apprentices.

I recognise the Minister's sincere commitment to the development of apprenticeships as a viable and equal career option. We all share a determination to overcome what the Minister rightly described as the snobbishness in the approach taken historically, and certainly over the past few years, to apprenticeships, traineeships and further education sector in general. We know the apprenticeship system is strong and can create viable careers. We know how important the apprenticeship and traineeship systems are for our economy, our ambitions and the ambitions people have for their careers.

I am zealous when it comes to the skills agenda. As an advanced economy, we should not and will not compete in terms of our competitiveness on tax. We have to compete on the agenda of skills, talent, investment in education and lifelong training, as well as in-work training and beyond. That is where we should be building on our advantage.

I want to note two great advances made in my own area recently. One is the development of the new apprenticeship centre on the south side of Drogheda. The second is the development by the ETB, with the support of SOLAS, of the advanced manufacturing centre of excellence, AMCE, in Dundalk. These are two very significant and visionary projects.

Before I raise a particular issue on a specific new generation apprenticeship programme, I will refer to the significant surpluses, in excess of €1 billion, in the National Training Fund. That is likely to double over the next couple of years. We must have a serious conversation about how we deploy those resources in the next period, especially to support SMEs with digital transformation, just transition and the challenges our economy and society face in regard to artificial intelligence, AI. While that is a conversation for another day, it is an issue I wanted to raise. We should all be conscious of how we deploy that asset cleverly over the next period to serve our economy and society and the needs of workers and businesses.

Anomalies have been brought to the attention of the national apprenticeship office, SOLAS and the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, by trade union colleagues in respect of the current construction regulations and the ability of those who complete the new consortium-led scaffolding apprenticeship in December 2023 and who attain a QQI Level 5 qualification to legally scaffold. I will read directly from the Minister's reply to a parliamentary question from the end of May, in which he stated:

It has been identified that under the current licencing regulations, scaffolding apprentices, having completed two years of training, will be required to submit to a CSCS assessment in order to obtain the CSCS Card that will allow them to work on-site.

Currently, the existing regulations for scheduled activities are being revised. The skills training and assessment for all activities currently covered by the existing regulations will be updated under the Construction Safety Licencing Bill, including scaffolding. The Bill is expected to be enacted at the end of 2023.

While the scaffolding apprenticeship is currently a recognised apprenticeship qualification, this Bill creates the potential for it to be included as a licensed activity under this model.

It is noted that, with the timing of the first apprenticeship graduates and the enactment of the Bill, there is a time gap. My Department is working with partners and a possible solution has been identified. This is being finalised and I expect to be able to share further details shortly.

That reply issued on 25 May. I am now advised that the solution that was being worked on by officials in the Department is not now viable and we still have the same problem I outlined in that parliamentary question at the end of May. There are time pressures involved here. We cannot have a situation where there is a time lag in terms of apprentices completing the two-year programme and having to wait an undetermined amount of time to be legally able to scaffold. That would undermine confidence in the programme, impact on the confidence and trust of the apprentices and result in fewer workers on sites in the middle of a housing crisis. As the new generation of apprenticeships is not part of the CSCS model, an amendment is needed to be made to the construction regulation to recognise a new national craft card, NCC, for safety-critical tasks. Those who did shorter and less advanced training than was previously required under the apprenticeship programme are entitled to work on sites. However, under the new apprenticeships model, with its more advanced apprenticeship two-year programme, we could end up in the bizarre situation where, because of the time lag and complexities involved, newly qualified skilled workers will not be able to legally work until this problem is fixed.

I submitted a further parliamentary question - it is due for answer today but I do not have it yet - in which I asked whether the Minister, in light of that we now know, will introduce a ministerial order that will recognise the new generation apprenticeships that are and will progress from the CSCS model that has been in place to the more advanced apprenticeship model, as it appears that the solution identified previously is no longer a runner. This is the real issue. I know the officials in the Department and the Minister are aware of it. I wanted to place this information on the record. It is a complex problem but there is a solution and I would be interested in hearing the Minister's view on it.

I acknowledge the Minister's recognition of the good work of the Labour Party group in the Seanad in bringing forward a Bill on the application of the national minimum wage to apprentices. No worker should be paid anything less than the adult rate of the national minimum wage. The idea that we want to encourage more apprentices to come into the system is fatally undermined by the poor pay experienced by apprentices in the first couple of years of their apprenticeship. The Minister acknowledges that and I look forward to his comments on it later.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I welcome this debate. I also welcome the launch of the new five-year apprenticeship action plan for 10,000 new apprentice registrations each year by 2025. In his opening statement, the Minister said we are on course to have 9,000 new apprentices. That is important. Many people may not have been aware that there are 67 apprenticeship programmes. That is marvellous. I ask the Minister to provide more information on that and to detail the different programmes. It would be important for us and our constituencies to be able to share this information and let people know what is available.

Everyone learns in different ways. There is a plan to provide a roadmap to a single apprenticeship system. The new supports for employees and apprentices are great. We are in a serious position with apprenticeships because of the delays in programmes and pay and conditions in the early stages of apprenticeships is a huge issue. The other issue I have come across is accommodation. Many apprentices have told me they find it hard to get accommodation.

I welcome the new state-of-the-art apprenticeship facility at the Athlone campus of the Technological University of the Shannon, with capacity for up to 1,000 apprentices a year. However, we need to increase the domestic supply of trades.

We are looking at areas such as nursing, agriculture, construction, hospitality and the motor industry because we are losing a lot of our young people to other countries as a result of pay and conditions. That is something we need to address. I know the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science is examining the issue of apprenticeship pay and how to better financially support apprentices.

Apprenticeships should be an option for all, irrespective of background, gender, age. If someone signs up for an apprenticeship, he or she should receive the correct phase of learning. I do not know what happened but I have spoken to people who have left apprenticeships without receiving their qualifications. I do not know the statistics but that issue needs to be addressed.

Apprenticeships should be an option within the national education and training system. They should be transformed into a well established route to a career in niche areas such as craft professions, which are attractive to our employees and learners. I also welcome yesterday's announcement of an expansion in veterinary education to 250 places. That is an important and positive step.

I have met the Minister recently and I spoke to him today about an issue, about which I also spoke to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. In the children's disability network team, CDNT, in Carlow, we have a 50% vacancy rate for occupational therapists, physiotherapists, speech and language therapists and dietitians. Members of the Carlow autism group were in the Oireachtas yesterday and I met Down Syndrome Carlow a few months ago. I cannot explain how badly the families felt that their children were not getting the occupational therapists and speech and language therapists they needed. The system is failing them. The fact that the CDNT in Carlow is only 50% staffed is a huge issue. My understanding, having spoken to the Minister and Minister of State, is that there will be an expression of interest for therapists in the next phase. I raise this issue because we have hit a crisis in the children's disability sector. I am meeting families every day and something needs to be done. We need to contact the HSE and bring all of the different Departments together to look at this. My concern is that the only ones suffering here are the children. The reason they are suffering, as the Minister of State knows, is that timing is crucial for a child. Early intervention for a child who needs therapy is of the utmost importance.

I compliment the Minister of State and the Minister, Deputy Harris, on the good work they have done. I see it myself. Carlow town and Kilkenny city have now become university towns for the south east. I see the changes that is bringing to the people of County Carlow and the surrounding areas. I welcome that.

Our apprenticeships are important. Recruiting through our universities and apprenticeships will be hugely important. I am my party's spokesperson for children. My worry is that if the HSE does not recruit therapists, the children will lose out. I make that plea the Minister, the Ministers of State and the HSE. I am in the community healthcare organisation, CHO, 5 area. I am in contact with the CHO but it is not easy to get people. I find I am constantly going back. I am looking for a forward plan for recruiting more staff in this area. I am sure the Minister of State, with his team in the Department, could find a niche and a way of recruiting in this sector which is on its knees. I know occupational therapists and physiotherapists are doing their best. I am not in any way saying they are not. However, it is very hard to work in Carlow CDNT with a staffing rate of 50%. It is unfair on the staff and the families and children involved. As I said, members of the Carlow autism group were here yesterday to meet the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. This is a priority for me and I know there is good work being done. I ask that we look at this area which is in crisis.

Deputy Martin Kenny

I welcome these statements on apprenticeships and further education and training developments. It is welcome that there are 67 different apprenticeship programmes in the country and I know some of them are doing exceptionally well. However, there are also difficulties and problems and we cannot hide away from them. I pay tribute to all of the companies which open up opportunities for young people to enter apprenticeship programmes. Most of them do well and develop employment opportunities for these people who become an asset to the companies in question. However, we need to acknowledge that a tiny minority of companies and businesses treat their apprentices badly. Sometimes apprenticeships are kept on for a long time and are not treated as they should be. We need to recognise that.

The areas of the economy where we have the greatest opportunities to develop people's skills include the health sector. Ireland has a tradition of sending our nurses to every part of the world. We were a caring society and nation, which sent missionaries to every part of Africa and the darkest parts of the world. We have an innate ability to develop the area of medical practitioners - doctors and nurses etc. - and biomedical sciences. We are doing some of that but it needs greater emphasis. As has been said, people who train in the professions often leave. If we only train 50 and 25 of them leave, the answer is to train 100 and then at least only 50 will leave. The only way to do it is to increase the capacity. The cost of that is of course borne by the taxpayer but it is repaid because it is an investment in the future. It is an investment not only in the students and their future, but in society itself.

Growing up in County Leitrim, there was much poverty around us and we could readily see it. The one way out of it for many people was to take the chance of a bit of education, move forward from that and break that cycle within families. Education is important and apprenticeships are often part of that too. The apprenticeship programme in place is doing well in certain areas but there are serious problems with the centres, which are not up to standard. They need to be expanded and developed. I hope the investment promised in that area will be delivered as quickly as possible. Developing and investing more in higher and further education and apprenticeships are critical to the economy and the future of our society.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I welcome the comments by the Minister, Deputy Harris, on the importance of the role personal assistants play in the further education sector. I know that all the stakeholders, the Department, SOLAS and Fórsa are all hopefully coming to a conclusion. I hope the Minister will meet those who have contacted me from the Drogheda Institute of Further Education, DIFE, Ó Fiach Institute of Further Education and further afield. I also hope we can finally offer justice and proper pay to people who do necessary work for little pay in conditions that not many would deal with.

On apprenticeships, every speaker has brought up the issue of pay. That is obviously an obstacle for many, particularly during the cost-of-living crisis. There is an issue with a backlog and with the pay for educators. We know what needs to be done with workforce planning, whether in the area of retrofitting, the health sector or STEM. We all get the idea of lifelong learning and add-on courses. Let us deal with the issues and "more, better, faster" is the argument. I have a seen a fair amount of success in my county.

There is the Drogheda apprenticeship training centre. There is the Advanced Manufacturing Training Centre of Excellence in Dundalk. The Louth and Meath Education and Training Board has done a huge piece of work. We have seen the cybersecurity courses it is now offering. I am dealing with LMETB about expanding the route maps. We all get the idea of route maps going various ways, whether this is through PLC courses, third level etc. I have spoken to it. I will be speaking this week about when we are looking at community centres. I am thinking of the Redeemer Family Resource Centre in Cox’s Demesne in Dundalk and the Muirhevnamor Community Centre and the possibilities to have access to apprenticeships and pre-apprenticeships.

I could not let this moment go without mentioning that I was recently at a launch in Muirhevnamor for shared space peace funding. It was named after a friend of mine who we lost relatively recently, Kevin Mulgrew. This is down to his involvement in that community.

Deputy Cian O'Callaghan

From listening to the Minister, Deputy Harris, earlier, we would be forgiven for thinking that all is going well with apprenticeships in Ireland, or at least that everything is going in the right direction. Yet, if you look at the figures for the intake of apprenticeships in construction, the situation is quite grave. In 2006, there were 475 people who entered apprenticeships in brick and stone laying. By 2021, that figure was down to just 148. In 2022, that was down to just 72.

It has been mentioned that Covid-19 affected the intake of construction apprenticeships. However, remember that in 2022, there was no closure of building sites due to Covid-19. All the Covid-19 restrictions were lifted in January 2022. One would therefore expect, all things being even, a considerable uptake in apprenticeships in 2022 compared with 2021. Instead, there was less than half the number of apprenticeships entering brick and stone laying in 2022 compared to 2021. There was only 15% of the 2006 figure. It is not just brick and stone laying where we have seen this. In 2006, 220 people entered plastering apprenticeships. That figure was down to just 38 in 2021 and down further again to just 31 last year.

Regarding carpentry and joinery, there were 1,905 people in 2006. This was down to just 847 in 2021 and down again to 713 people in 2022. In the area of painting and decorating, there were 160 people in 2006. That went down to just 43 in 2021 and just 23 in 2022. This was 14% of the 2006 figures. This is in the middle of a severe housing and homelessness crisis. People were sleeping in their cars last night because they cannot access social housing, affordable housing or even emergency accommodation. The same people will be sleeping in their cars tonight. Families will be sleeping in their cars tonight. There is a massive housing crisis and yet we are to believe that everything is going well in the area of apprenticeships. There is an absolute crisis in construction apprenticeships and we have not heard from the Minister about what emergency actions he is now taking to get more people into construction apprenticeships.

He did say that we could not afford the risk of people thinking that they would be worse off with an apprenticeship than going into other employment. It is not a risk. The situation now is that if you walk onto a building site and if do your safe pass course, you will be paid a much better rate as a non-skilled worker than if you are going into an apprenticeship to learn that skill. That is the current situation across building sites. If we are to value apprenticeships, and we all agree that we should, then people need to be paid a decent rate. The exemption on the minimum wage is a disgrace and it should be removed immediately.

There are other things that need to be done to boost the numbers. The Minister referenced how he wants to broaden and diversify the intake by increasing female participation in apprenticeships. While the actions here have meant that the number of women participating in apprenticeships have doubled over the last few years, that is working from a very low base. Look at what they did in the UK, when they, like us, were starting from a very low base. They managed to quadruple female participation from 2015 to 2020.

Compare us to some other countries, especially in the area of construction apprenticeships. In Denmark, 56% of those who are taking part in builder and painter courses in 2020 were women. The equivalent figure in Ireland is less than 5%. Some 25% of apprentices in carpenter and joiner courses in Denmark are women. I wonder if the Minister, Deputy Harris, or the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, know the corresponding figure for the number of women in Ireland for carpenter and joiners. It is 25% in Denmark, but it is less than 0.3% in Ireland.

A huge amount of work needs to be done to get us in line with good practice in other countries. In addition to implementing decent wages, while the grants and bursaries for female participation are welcome, they simply do not intervene far enough in this. There is a huge distance to go. Another thing we need to be doing, as has been done in other countries and is an absolute must, is putting quotas into our public contracts for construction to ensure that apprentices are hired as part of the workforce. This has been done successfully in Australia and Norway. When you think about it, the State is the largest buyer of construction contracts in this country for public infrastructure, housing etc. If the Government is serious about ensuring there are more apprentices and more people going to construction-related apprenticeships, why would it not put those into public procurement processes and into those contracts and insist that a percentage of the workforce hired for those are apprentices?

We need to pay apprentices a decent rate and make it attractive for them to go into apprenticeships. If we really value them, let us pay them well. We have a huge amount to do to increase female participation. Let us get real about this and put it into public contracts for all large construction contracts.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I congratulate the Government on the progress that is being made. When I went into education back in 2016, we set a broad objective to create the best education and training system in Europe. One of the areas where we really did need to pick up our performance was the area of apprenticeships. It is encouraging to see there are now 67 apprenticeships. I understand there are another 30 in the pipeline.

We are on a very positive path in respect of this element. The likes of Germany or Australia probably have three times our level of apprenticeship participation, even if we are to hit the target of 10,000 registrations each year by 2025 which the Minister has set. Therefore, there is a way to go. The issue is how we enhance the capacity of our system to deliver quality apprenticeships.

The principle of “earn as you learn” is valuable. This is not just the case for school-leavers, many of whom are under pressure and need the opportunity to earn as they learn, but increasingly for people who will have to change direction mid-career. Apprenticeships are very much a route to make those changes. I share the concerns that some of the pay levels may be too low. We need to see this as a quality route. We need to see more engagement from the enterprise sector to recognise that this is a crucial piece of enterprises being able to remain competitive in the long term.

We also have to bear in mind that massive change is occurring in the global economy. We are very dependent on global competition to survive.

There are many trends, for example, responding to climate change, adapting to the circular economy and understanding and responding to the impact that artificial intelligence will have on the composition of our workforce and the types of job.

In many ways, this change will create opportunities more attuned to the approach of apprenticeships rather than the traditional third level education route that has been the dominant element in Irish thinking. There are practical elements that we will see, for example, the arrival of electric vehicles, heat pumps and, I hope, district heating, which is underdeveloped in Ireland. By adopting a circular approach, the repair of products will become more prevalent. We will see the recovery of materials for reuse. These are new expectations in the economy and will fall on enterprises. The apprenticeship route is the simplest and most effective way for sectors to recognise these changes and adapt to them by participating collectively in programmes that are designed to respond to changing needs. The extent to which enterprises can shape the content of the courses delivered is particularly unique. It gives a useful route for enterprises to recognise how they can anticipate and be ready for really big changes, as digitisation, the circular economy and climate change impact on their sectors.

We need to see a wider range of employers becoming involved in apprenticeship programmes in a meaningful way. Let us be honest: the public service has not been leading by example in this respect. At the moment just over 1% of all apprenticeships are coming from the public service. The semi-State bodies have a much better record. Even though they are far smaller in size, they contribute about 2%. There is immense potential for the public service to become exemplars in developing new apprenticeships that respond to the sort of challenges it is experiencing. Right through the public service, we can see the need for responding to changing needs, whether it be in special education, caring and in many areas where there are opportunities for the public service to be a leader in developing these responses. It could also be a leader in tackling one of the remaining obstacles that stands in the way of a wider uptake of apprenticeships, in that it could provide reliable recruitment channels for people who want to take up apprenticeships but who are not in the know. I refer to people who do not have contact with employers and who do not know people who might give them an employment contract. I think the public service could be a real leader in developing those reliable recruitment channels in order that people who have ambition to do apprenticeships can have a fair chance to realise that ambition effectively.

The same can be said of other sectors as well. As far as I know, it is only the financial services sector that has moved to the central recruitment of apprentices. It provides a go-to place where anyone who wants to do an apprenticeship in financial service can go to one place so that the application can be processed, and there is support from the sector to take on those who meet the criteria. We need to see more of that established. It is one thing to have access to information on the CAO site, but it is a very different thing to have access to a portal that would actually see a person placed on a programme. That is the frontier that we still need to cross. If the public service became more actively involved in apprenticeships and their development, it could lead to us seeing that established. The National Training Fund, which has a surplus within it, could well be deployed to looking at making it easier for both employers and apprentices to become involved and to have a good livelihood out of their involvement in it. We need to think creatively about how that could be done.

The other remaining frontier is the reform of the leaving certificate. Sadly, we have insisted over the years on a leaving certificate that is designed essentially for people going on to third level colleges. In my view, the memory-based examination system has become an easy route for third level colleges to distort what happens at second level in order to make it easy for them to recruit people to their undergraduate programmes. We need to accelerate the willingness to reform the leaving certificate to make it much more open to people who have different routes other than the traditional route of going into third level. We also must make it clear that people who take up apprenticeships can participate fully in the opportunities to go on to do third level degrees if that is what they choose.

In conclusion, I believe in the long term, we will need an upskilling suite that is far more developed than the one we now have because workers will need more security in a faster changing environment. We have the elements of that with Springboard and with the human capital initiative, with apprenticeships and with elements of the further education and training system. They are a good foundation but we need to seek to integrate those and develop a new social contract where people would see that part of what we do as a community is ensure that people have opportunities throughout their lives to upskill, without placing undue pressure on them or their families to do so.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

From a Sinn Féin point of view, apprenticeships are something we have been pushing for a long time. I believe the Minister and the Minister of State get it, but there is a difference between getting it and delivering it. I think they understand the cultural shift that is needed, as well as the fact that significant policy shifts are needed. The Minister, Deputy Harris, touched on it himself earlier: some of the most significant challenges exist not only among young people themselves leaving school but also among their parents. I refer to the snobbery that exists. I have made the point previously that there are many schools across this State where too few young people are going to third level but there are also schools where there are too many going to university because there are young people in schools where the expectation culturally that they go to university means that people who would be far better suited to either further education or apprenticeships are missing out on that opportunity. That is certainly something that needs to be acknowledged.

I will quickly flag what I believe are some of the most significant challenges. One relates to instructors. In some of the areas where apprenticeships are most in demand, for example, electrical engineering, instrumentation and some forms of plumbing apprenticeships, because the pay in the private sector is so much more attractive than it is for an instructor in an ETB centre or technological university, it is very difficult to attract people. That is a huge challenge.

I recognise that progress has been made in that regard but the backlogs are still significant. I also want to flag that for a lot of smaller employers, block release is a challenge. It makes sense in some circumstances, but we need to consider more flexibility, for example, a choice between block release and having a day per week. I agree with Deputy Bruton's point that local authorities and other public bodies need to do much more. There is far too much reluctance to take on apprenticeships.

Deputy Martin Browne

Only last week, I referred to how apprentices were excluded from the national minimum wage. I make no apologies for repeating that. In speaking about apprenticeships, we are speaking about workers, including the workers of the future. We are also speaking about what it means to work and the conditions one should expect in the workplace. Furthermore, we are speaking about the value that the Government puts on people in training. Its deferral of a recent Bill in the Seanad that aimed to ensure that all apprentices were paid the minimum wage appears to confirm that it is okay to view apprentices as cheap labour.

That is extremely concerning. When we see there was a reduction last year in the number of people taking up the new apprenticeships, we need to question why that is.

Gaining skills is an attractive prospect, which will stand to people who gain those skills through the apprenticeship programme but if people are to be attracted to a programme, they need to be guaranteed a rate of pay that at the very least meets the national minimum wage. At a time when it is taking longer for some apprentices to qualify because of a difficulty in accessing off-the-job training, especially for craft apprentices, it is hardly surprising that a reduction was recorded last year. Furthermore, the availability of qualified tradespeople to provide that training particularly in ETB centres where phase 2 training is concerned is another area of difficulty again due to current pay scales which make it more beneficial for them to work on site than in the classroom.

I note these points because with a housing crisis and the need to build new houses at volume, we need to ensure the number of apprentices available can meet what is needed. The conditions of the apprenticeship need to be such that they attract the demand for places that we need to see.

It is also important that local authorities provide craft apprenticeships in their capital sections. The State needs to lead by example as the State and local authorities have important roles to play in the provision of accommodation. The use of social clauses in public procurement contracts to promote the creation of new apprenticeship opportunities is an important avenue to pursue. The benefits this offers for the rate of production and the availability of apprenticeships cannot be underestimated. In short, we need to take whatever measures are needed to make apprenticeships as attractive and as available for new entrants as possible, given the pressures of the rising cost of living and demand for skill sets to address the headline needs of the country right now.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I am sharing time with Deputy Wynne.

We have a crisis here. We have a crisis with the number of apprenticeships that are being commenced. We have a crisis with the skills shortage that is holding back our ability to tackle our housing crisis. We have Government plans, announcements and so on and a target of 10,000 apprenticeships the year by 2025. Interestingly, Deputy Bruton spoke earlier about his experience when he was the Minister. If you go back to 2016, the Government then announced a target of 9,000. Now, seven years on, the Government is increasing its target by 1,000 and pushing it forward to 2025. It does not smack of very significant ambition.

What is the fundamental reason for the lack of apprenticeship opportunities and people taking up apprenticeships? Fundamentally it is about reliance the private sector. Like so much in our economy and our society, the problems we face are basically because the Government has outsourced responsibility to the private sector. When it comes to educating people to work in our schools and when it comes to educating people to heal people, to work in our in our hospital with nurses, doctors etc., we do not outsource that to a for-profit health sector or for-profit education system. The State educates those people so that they are able to provide these necessary skills.

However, when it comes to construction, for example, or what will be a vital area of climate response in all its myriad of forms, we are largely relying on the private sector to provide apprenticeships. That simply is not happening. Employment in construction has grown by 50,000 since 2013 but apprenticeships have not increased to any significant degree and in some areas like in the wet trades, they have actually decreased. That is linked to the change in the model of the construction sector and the reliance on layers of subcontractors or small companies and very little direct employment. There has been a massive decline in direct employment. That is now a fundamental block in addressing the skills shortage to be able to build homes at scale in order to address the housing crisis as quickly as is possible.

This issue has been discussed in Britain. The UK Construction Leadership Council industry skills plan stated that in order to improve apprentice numbers to increase skills training and diversity in the industry it is essential to increase the levels of direct employment. However, there is no way to compel the private sector to increase the levels of direct employment. It has moved to this horrendous model, from the point of view of workers, of how the whole construction sector is an organised. It clearly points towards the need and is another very significant argument for a State construction company. A very important paper was published last week by Dr. Rory Hearne and Phil Murphy which makes the case for apprenticeships. They stated:

[T]he skills shortage cannot be resolved until we create job security within the construction sector. A state construction company which offered quality permanent employment, properly paid apprenticeships, improved wages and employee benefits (e.g. improved pension provisions, early retirement schemes, sickness pay, and death-in-service compensation), better regulation, and improved safety and quality standards.

The private sector is not set up to provide the apprenticeships on the scale that is required and is not attractive to workers for a variety of very understandable reasons. Therefore, we should stop outsourcing this that the private sector and set up a State construction agency.

Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne

I thank the People Before Profit-Solidarity group for lending me time to contribute to the statements this afternoon.

I take this opportunity to welcome the additional places that the Minister, Deputy Harris, announced yesterday in medicine, nursing, midwifery and pharmacy. I congratulate the University of Limerick on its successful proposal for a new veterinary school in the region. It is a big win for the region for which I and many others in this House lobbied hard. I understand it is to build a new animal hospital on the campus, which will serve to protect the career for generations to come.

In talking about apprenticeships, I want to talk about west Clare and in particular to make the case for a new apprenticeship training centre of excellence to be set up in Kilrush town. The excellent Cooraclare Road campus provides FET courses through its vocational training opportunities scheme, VTOS, team in a wide range of areas, including healthcare childcare and business administration. It also does great work through its Youthreach programme. The missing piece in west Clare is with apprenticeships. We have a significant deficit of skills in the country with respect to trades. Communities like the one I represent in west Clare would greatly benefit from this kind of investment, which would secure a sustainable future for trades in the county.

At the moment the woefully low rates of apprentice pay cannot justify young people leaving west Clare to pursue an apprenticeship elsewhere. I express my interest and enthusiasm to work with both Ministers on this proposal, which would create a vibrant and sustainable future for trades in County Clare. I often hear about how vibrant Kilrush town was back in the 1980s and I would love to see it booming again.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

I welcome the opportunity. We have had a number of opportunities to speak about skills and further and higher education recently in the context of the European Year of Skills. It is really welcome and shows a renewed focus on this area. It actually vindicates the idea of having a stand-alone Ministry to deal with further and higher education. It has certainly brought an increased focus on it. I was taken by the Minister's story that he insisted on having that "F" at the start of his Department's title to put that further education piece front and centre. That visibility piece is very important.

At the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, the phrase "cultural handbrake" has been used regarding apprenticeships. Perhaps the middle-class mum or dad wants Billy or Joe to head off to university but maybe not to an apprenticeship. That is a kind of cultural snobbery we need to get over because there is an enormous range of job opportunities in the area involving vital skills that we need in a range of areas all across the economy.

I have a particular interest in further education. Members will know that I was a primary schoolteacher before I entered Leinster House, but my father was an instructor in FÁS and in AnCO, as it was previously called.

That was a fantastic job in all sorts of senses. In one sense, it was a fantastic job in that it funded his children to access university education in a way that he did not have the opportunity to do. The other thing that is very interesting about the job is that his formal education stopped before the end of primary school and he went to work in factories. However, because he had access to further and lifelong education, he engaged in City and Guilds courses, upskilled and retrained himself over the course of his career and he ended up in a position where he could access that instructor grade.

It was a fantastic job also due to the people who came into his class. Over the course of his career, he taught pre-apprenticeship classes for people who were going on to work on a factory floor and he also taught drafting back at a time when paper and pen was still how the business was done. As time moved on, as time always does, he moved to AutoCAD, teaching the young men and women who came into his class how to draw using a computer. There were many young men and women who came into his class who would have stepped out of that formal education route when they completed either their intermediate certificate, as it once was, or their leaving certificate and who did not take the college route. However, they accessed those education courses in what was FÁS, or AnCo before that, and then went on to have very successful and productive working lives. That instilled in me from the very start the importance of this pathway in terms of providing education for people.

I want to turn to the well-being report which was issued two weeks ago and which looks at a range of measures and indices by which we can measure our society in a somewhat more meaningful way than just by using a GDP or GNI* figure. On education, it was interesting to look specifically at the lifelong learning rate. We do very well on education generally but, as has already been mentioned in the debate today, our lifelong learning is not as good as we would aspire to. In 2022, Ireland had approximately the same lifelong learning rate as the EU average, at around 11.8%, but when we look at the top performers, we are way behind Sweden, at 36%, and Denmark, at 28%. It is interesting to look at the equality make-up of that. Many people who qualify are within the 18 to 24 age range and they are in full-time education. However, we need to look beyond that. Just over 10% in the 25 to 34 age cohort are engaged in education of some kind over the course of a week but when we look at the 55 to 64 age range, that drops to 1.4%. If we are talking about things like the digital divide and the need for people to upskill their digital literacy, which is not necessarily in terms of their workforce abilities but for older people to be able to access emails or the services they need through a digital format, then that digital literacy piece is very important. When I see that lifelong learning figure of only 1.4% in that older age cohort, I say to myself that this is something we should absolutely be targeting. We should be making sure that people are not left behind as we make the transition to a digital economy or digital society.

I want to mention the Sustainable Development Goals. I have put a specific question to the Minister by way of parliamentary question regarding target 4.b and the Minister of State might be able to respond in his closing remarks. If not, I can await the reply to the parliamentary question. Under that Sustainable Development Goal, there is a commitment to: “By 2020, substantially expand globally the number of scholarships available to developing countries, in particular least developed countries, small island developing States and African countries, for enrolment in higher education, including vocational training and information and communications technology” and a range of other issues. I have asked the Department whether any work is happening within the Department to help Ireland to play its part in vindicating that goal. I also mention target 4.5, which states: “By 2030, eliminate gender disparities in education and ensure equal access to all levels of education and vocational training for the vulnerable, including persons with disabilities, indigenous peoples, and children in vulnerable situations”.

I now turn to the report of the Joint Committee on Autism which was published just recently. One of the findings reported to us by AsIAm is that the rate of underemployed or unemployed people within the autistic community is shocking, to say the least. That report highlighted two sides of a coin that we should be paying attention to in this regard. On the one hand, we absolutely need workforce planning for that range of particular therapies that we need to make available to people in the disability community, for example, speech and language therapy and occupational therapy, which are of pivotal importance. We also have to make sure that we are tailoring our educational provision so people who, for example, are autistic have access to further lifelong education opportunities that will enable them and scaffold them in terms of seeking a place within the workforce.

In the Minister of State's opening speech, he discussed the megatrends that we see in terms of the change in the workforce and he mentioned digitisation, decarbonisation and demographics. I have already referred to the digitisation piece. We need to make sure we do not create a digital divide by leaving people behind who may not have access to those skills, and there is an adult literacy piece involved in that.

In terms of demographics, we know that the caring economy is going to expand as a percentage of our total economy. We know also that the caring economy is not well rewarded within the market-driven system that we have, so people who find themselves working in the caring economy are generally not well paid. It would be true to say, and I agree with Deputy Paul Murphy, that the privatisation of our health services has not been something that has either improved the quality of caring that is being made available to our people or the pay and conditions of those who are giving that caring. Maybe we need to be thinking about the big picture, about a more public-driven approach to how we provide caring service and about co-operative-type schemes for caring that we see in places like Japan, for example, or maybe we need to be having a discussion about universal basic income. We have seen a version of the universal basic income introduced under this Government for artists and maybe we should be looking at a universal basic income for carers so we are actually rewarding people who are operating within that caring economy.

With regard to decarbonisation and the flip side to that, which is nature preservation and nature restoration, we have seen charts on the huge ramping up of heat in our oceans that are frightening for anybody who has been paying attention. The need to make a radical transition in how we run our economies is staring us in the face, if anybody cares to pay attention. There is an enormous need for people who can work within this new green economy that is now emerging. I spoke some weeks ago about the range of job opportunities that exist in offshore wind, and I am not going to rehearse those. However, around nature restoration, for example, we need taxonomy specialists and people who can identify things, such as what is in a field that is worth preserving, people who understand plant and animal behaviours, eco-hydrologists and ecological engineers. That sounds very fancy but that could be people who are remediating some of the work we have done previously on rivers or drainage systems, which we have seen overwhelmed only in recent days by heavy rainfall of unprecedented levels. Maybe we need those people who are going to give the space back to the river. That could be people who are driving the digger or fixing the leaky dams, and it need not necessarily be at a very high level. However, there is great urgency attached to the development of skills within this economy.

Deputy Paul Donnelly

I welcome the increase in the number and types of apprenticeships that are available. There is no doubt that the workforce and our working lives are very different to when I started working on building sites many years ago but the basic issue remains the same.

We treat apprentices differently from other workers. They are learning on the job but they are also working on the job and they need to be paid for the work they do. The Minister was absolutely correct when he said it is not fair that workers are paid subminimal wages. Not only is it unfair; it is a disgrace. The work of everyone who is trying hard to make the case to young people that it is a good career is undermined constantly by this low pay attitude.

The Government has the power to change this. It is not a disinterested or uninvolved party to this. Deputy Paul Murphy referred to local authorities earlier. We are constantly told that local authorities are struggling to get contractors to renovate homes or fix some of the tens of thousands of properties they own across the State. I remember the day in our house when there was something that went wrong. We called Dublin Corporation and the corporation workers came down and did the work. Now there has to be a contractor. To get that contractor, it is necessary to get maybe three different prices but they are not getting the three different prices any more. They are struggling to get one to contract for some of the work they are doing. There is a very simple solution to that which is to go back to the way it worked rather than subbing it out to private contractors.

We cannot escape the fact that the very apprentices in the construction industry who are building the houses and apartments and looking at their work are very conscious as they build these apartments and houses that they will never be able to afford to buy or rent one of the very buildings they are constructing. One cannot escape the fact that young people in Blanchardstown, Castleknock, Ongar and Tyrrelstown who are currently apprentices or are nearing the end of their apprenticeships are looking to leave our shores to head for Britain, the USA, Australia and elsewhere where they see better opportunities and a better quality of life. At the front end, work is ongoing to attract young people to this sector, which is difficult given the labour market and given that the Government’s targets have been missed. However, at the back end, just like nurses and teachers, we are losing these workers hand over fist to other countries.

Do we know the statistics? How many people are completing their apprenticeships? How many enter the local construction industry? How many qualified tradespeople are we losing? I ask because, as the Government puts it, we have very ambitious targets for social, affordable, cost rental and private housing units. The Government talks about delivering major infrastructural projects such as DART+, which will go through Dublin 7 and Dublin 15, BusConnects, schools, hospitals, community and sports facilities. To do this, we need highly qualified construction workers. If we do not get the basics right, including pay and conditions, access to education, and tackling the cost of living and the ability to be able to live in the country, we are producing these highly qualified people for the rest of the world.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy James O'Connor)

I want to take the opportunity to welcome Aghada National School and my extended relation, Mr. O’Neill, to the Gallery. They are very welcome.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

As the Irish population is estimated to grow by 1 million by 2040, increased demand for homes, transport, education and employment will inevitably cause a continual housing and infrastructure crisis. Project Ireland 2040 estimates that 550,000 homes will be required over the next 20 years, and the national development plan commits €11.6 billion to provide 112,000 new social homes by 2027. The State training agency, SOLAS, found that more than 50,800 skilled workers will need to be recruited if the Government is to meet its targets for building new homes and retrofitting hundreds of thousands of existing homes. How can we meet the requirements of Project Ireland 2040 and how will the construction leaders of Ireland overcome recruitment barriers? With a smaller pool of young people entering skilled trades, the Irish construction industry needs to employ more women in construction if the industry is to have a sustainable future. Skilled trades require agility, endurance, balance and co-ordination and not a specific gender. Women are woefully under-represented in the construction industry which faces the largest gender pay gap of all sectors, with a 23.7% discrepancy between men and women for the 2021-22 financial year. We know that the industry offers a diverse range of career options from carpentry and civil engineering to management but to many on the outside, construction can still be seen as labour-intensive work requiring physical strength and dominated by the outdated stereotype of male building-site culture. This view needs to be challenged by both businesses and at grassroots level if progress is to be made.

Construction is a universal language of global commerce. A person can secure work all around the world and it offers a wide variety of career options. If the necessary cultural change does not happen, there will be a shortage of skills, including house building and retrofitting skills. There is work to be done with educating women and girls about the breadth of career choices within construction and related core subjects from an early age in order that it is seen as a viable career choice. Part of that conversation involves businesses looking at what they can do to encourage women to apply for roles and examining how they can retain and invest in their skills. The Minister has agreed that changing the conversation in schools is the first job in a cultural shift. I have read about the Construction Industry Federation’s building equality campaign, which is aimed at increasing the number of women working in construction. The campaign encourages women within industry to share their stories and become role models for girls and women considering a career in construction so as to highlight their importance within the sector. This is a positive step in the right direction. It is very important that the construction industry participates in outreach programmes to schools across Ireland to educate career guidance teachers and students alike on the range of career opportunities available to both men and women.

This year’s CAO forms for the first time offered apprenticeships and not just university options. While I commend the Minister on this, there is a real need to take education beyond the walls of the universities. It is essential that for every penny going into universities, matching funding goes to apprenticeships and further education training programmes. I welcome the €30 million expansion to the apprenticeships programme in 2023, as well as the additional funding for social inclusion measures in apprenticeships, such as a bursary for apprentices from under-represented groups. Funding will also be provided for 4,800 additional apprenticeship places and 4,000 registrations, as well as 11,000 more upskilling and reskilling opportunities for those sectors most impacted by Brexit. It is also great to hear of the investment into reform for disadvantaged children through the access to apprenticeship programme, which supports the transition of young people aged 16 to 24 years from under-represented groups into national apprenticeships. This is a great initiative and it is changing people’s lives. Over 80% of those who have participated to date in these access programmes continue on to become apprentices.

These are all great initiatives but the pay gap for apprenticeships must be mentioned. Learners who participate in an access to apprenticeship programme in Technological University Dublin or Technological University of the Shannon from September 2023 are eligible to apply to the National Apprenticeship Office for a €3,000 bursary. This will help to support living costs including travel, accommodation and materials. However, more needs to be done regarding the minimum wage an apprentice receives, with some as low as €6.84 per hour. I acknowledge that the Minister, Deputy Harris, has already started negotiations to try to bring about significant increases in apprentices' pay, both by considering adaptations to existing minimum wage legislation or by negotiations with employers and other representative bodies to remove obstacles that employers are facing when recruiting apprentices and to hear their views on a minimum wage.

Returning to the investment into reform for disadvantaged people, I would also like to commend the Minister on the establishment of a task force for education and apprenticeships in prison to try to cut reoffending rates. It will establish two pilot training programmes, a catering apprenticeship and a programme in retrofitting, to be delivered within the prisons. The apprenticeship programmes will be key. As part of this work, prisoners will have an ability to access education within the four walls of a prison and leave with a qualification that can open doors for them when they leave prison. It will also support prisoners who may have started an apprenticeship before entering custody to continue their training. Breaking the link between criminality and vulnerable young people will be essential if we are to divert young people away from lives of crime. We can all agree that we are equally serious about ensuring that crime does not pass down through generations. Through education, targeted initiatives and funding and investment, we can offer support and direction to get their lives back on track and provide an exit route for people who have already been ensnared in criminal activity.

The availability of apprenticeships provides an alternative for school leavers who prefer practical training to a full-time college programme, or those who started a college course and found that it did not suit them. I was delighted that in October 2022, Louth and Meath Education and Training Board announced the establishment of a major apprenticeship centre in Drogheda, the first of its kind to be established in Ireland. The great news is that Ireland is on course to recruiting the highest number of apprentices in years, with 3,000 new registrations already in the first five months of this year. We are likely to end up at 9,000 registrations for 2023 and predicted to hit 10,000 apprenticeships next year, which is an amazing achievement.

Overall, great work and initiatives are being done in terms of the inclusion of women, impoverished children and those in prison. However, more needs to be done in terms of the apprenticeship pay gap and to support businesses in the recruitment and retention of apprentices.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire, an Teachta Harris, agus an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Niall Collins. I thank them for being here and for their investment and recent announcements in the University of Limerick. It is a wonderful university. My daughter is there at present. The veterinary courses there and the veterinary hospital are most welcome. I support the university on that.

In recent years, thankfully, we have started to see a renewed interest in the apprenticeship model in Ireland. As of February of this year, there were 26,300 apprentices in training in 66 apprenticeship programmes compared with fewer than 15,000 across 24 apprenticeships just five years ago. It is great to see that broad range. We must change and adapt. Until 2016, apprenticeships were focused on the construction, manufacturing and motor sectors, including carpenters, bricklayers and all the traditional ones we are aware of. Obviously, however, we had to change. School leavers now have a choice between traditional craft-based apprenticeships or one of the new apprenticeships from a wide range of industries, such as logistics, supply chain, computer and technology, medtech, insurance, finance, accountancy, the hospitality sector - you name it.

Never has it been more important to promote the role of apprenticeships. In that regard I compliment the people of Durlas Éile on the fabulous centre there, just outside the town. It is a wonderful effort by all the different agencies. I have been through it a number of times and have seen the apprenticeships and the skills. I am sure the Minister of State has been there. There is also the promotion of it and the extensions out to Tipperary town.

There is a lot to be done. If we want to meet our targets of doing what we have to do and getting the numbers of houses built, repaired and retrofitted, we have to increase the number of apprenticeship places.

Deputy Michael Collins

Apprenticeships are a huge issue and we must provide encouragement in any way we can to make sure that apprenticeships are available to people. Many will have noticed the difficulty in hiring the services of skilled tradespeople such as electricians, plumbers or carpenters for home repairs, which are also in very short supply.

There are, however, so many areas where we see young people being unfairly treated. I wish to address one of the issues that affects the younger population in rural Ireland, namely, the difficulty they are facing in obtaining driving licences. They cannot get to their apprenticeships or their jobs, especially in rural Ireland, because they cannot get driving tests. Consequently, tenders in respect of courses and job opportunities are axed. Many individuals find themselves in a predicament whereby they secure employment but are unable to accept the position due to the absence of public transportation in their areas, coupled with the unavailability of driving tests. A young lady in the countryside of Kilmacsimon recently secured a job in Kinsale. Due to the lack of public transport options, however, she is dependent on her parents for her commute to work. Regrettably, she has been informed that she may not be able to undertake a driving test until January 2024. That is astonishing amount of time, nearly eight or nine months. When I recently brought up the situation with driving tests in west Cork, I had a Fine Gael Senator tell me I was away with the birds, that it was not a problem. That will tell you how out of touch that Senator is. This is a problem for many young people. Furthermore, the same girl has aspirations of attending a college in September for upskilling, for which she will require means of transportation. This predicament highlights the importance of addressing the challenges faced by young people. It is the same with trying to get a national car test, NCT, for a car or a driving licence. It is shocking for these young people.

Earlier today I mentioned here an issue about CoAction and young people in the Beara Peninsula who have intellectual disabilities. Their transport to attend CoAction's rehabilitative training, RT, education programme tomorrow is to be taken from them, which is very unfair and a matter that needs the Minister of State's intervention.

Deputy Carol Nolan

Tá áthas orm labhairt ar na ráitis seo. I acknowledge the fact that there is tremendous work taking place with respect to apprenticeships and further education. The fact that we are slowly but surely graduating away from a model of further education focused almost entirely on third level is welcome. We need to continue that work of developing a broader vision in that regard. I will raise one specific issue with the Minister of State, and it relates to concerns brought to me by the Farm Tractor and Machinery Trade Association, FTMTA. It has been clear to me for some time now that there are areas in the agriculture sector facing enormous and prolonged difficulties around recruitment of skilled staff. Indeed, as I understand it from the FTMTA, there are in excess of 670 vacant positions for agricultural mechanics across the industry and, on average, every farm machinery dealership has two open positions for a qualified mechanic. Some 85% of farm machinery dealerships are trying to recruit, with 67% having positions open, I understand, for more than six months. So I come at this issue from two angles. The first concerns the impact this will have on the viability of farm operations on the trade sector itself, but the second is from the perspective of apprenticeships, which I have dealt with extensively as a member of the Oireachtas Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. We need a joined up, cross-departmental approach to this crisis and a fresh review of the critical skills list in this area. That is why I want to see the likes of the FTMTA front and centre at the table where these discussions will take place, particularly around apprenticeships.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this topic. In my brief contribution I will focus on three or four issues.

There was a very welcome announcement in November 2022 regarding the go-ahead, the green light, for the Galway and Roscommon Education and Training Board plan for a new adult campus to be called the college of the future. I have been following up on that assiduously. The last answer I got was that a preliminary business case would be carried out in September. That was confirmed today by the Minister. My specific question is whether that is on target to be done by September. As for the changes that have been made to the public spending code and bringing it back to three stages, what overall spriocdháta, what overall date, has the Department now in mind for that very welcome development in Galway of an adult education campus? I think it will be a wonderful addition to Galway.

Second, as regards apprentices, the percentage of females involved in apprenticeships is very worrying, at as low as 7%. I would like to hear what plans the Government has in that regard.

I have followed up with local authorities and I know that the overall aim is 10,000 apprenticeships and we are up at 9,000. In respect of the local authorities, however, the figure is 750 by 2025. Galway City Council and Galway County Council distinguish themselves by not having one single apprenticeship on either authority, in a growing city, one of the five cities destined to grow - not a single apprenticeship of any nature in either local authority. That is unforgivable, and I ask the Minister of State to take a hands-on approach to that aspect.

Finally, as regards the wool feasibility study that was carried out, a wool council was to be set up, and one of the specific recommendations of the study was an apprenticeship in respect of wool and the possibilities there for the future. I asked this in the past of the senior Minister and he said it was not his area and that it was within the remit of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. I ask the Minister of State and the Minister again what specific progress is being made in this area as regards the development of wool as an indigenous industry.

Deputy Joan Collins

I welcome any additional apprenticeship placements. I also welcome yesterday's announcement of placements in respect of construction, nursing, etc.

I wish to discuss the underlying economic and social conditions. In a general sense, we have a cost-of-living crisis and a housing crisis and we are facing an existential climate breakdown. Starting pay for workers who build the houses and infrastructure needed to fight these problems is €6.84. I do not know what world the Minister of State thinks we are living in if he believes we will be able to build those houses, retrofit the country or build renewable energy plants while offering workers €6.84 during a cost-of-living crisis. SOLAS estimates that we need 50,831 new apprentices based on Government targets for house building, which are far below what is needed. Young workers are leaving this country in their droves because they cannot find homes and cannot afford the cost of living. The figure of 50,831 will be much higher, and much harder to reach, with the worsening housing and cost-of-living crises.

The problem with low pay for apprentices is a double-edged sword. For kids in working-class communities, the trades have always been a path to a decent life and a decent income. Low pay is a significant barrier to those young adults learning trades. On the other hand, there are council tenants across the country who have been waiting decades for proper repairs and retrofits. Dublin City Council's energy-efficiency retrofit programme is telling council tenants that they will have to wait at least another decade for retrofits. The council is giving a date of 2033 before all council stock is retrofitted. It justifies this by pointing to a lack of tradespeople to carry out the work and the fact that it cannot find contractors. Working-class people are being priced out of entering the trades. This is causing a shortage of workers, which is part of the reason for the significant double standard in retrofitting. Those who can afford to retrofit get grants while those who cannot afford it get to see their energy bills increase. Those living in public housing are stuck with damp, mould, single-glazed windows and doors and everything that goes with all of that. This afternoon, I raised the matter of the council flats on Davitt Road in Drimnagh. There is mould, single glazing and cold. Tenants have been asking the council to respond. Only recently have they started campaigning for proper maintenance to be carried out in their area. They held a meeting with the Community Action Tenants Union.

Tradespeople are essential workers, as are apprentices, and they will become even more essential as the housing and climate crises grow worse. The very least they deserve is a living wage that is indexed to the cost of living and able to provide a decent standard of living. The housing crisis and climate breakdown are horrific, but they are also opportunities to change and provide everyone with decent housing, decent pay and a decent standard of living. This needs to start with the workers who are going to drag us out of the crisis, which means proper jobs and proper pay for anyone who wants to enter the trades.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 22 Jun 2023

Apprenticeship and Further Education and Training: Statements

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 22 Jun 2023