Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Sep 2023

Vol. 1043 No. 1

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Children in Care

Deputy Patrick Costello

I thank the Minister for his attendance. It is nice to have the actual Minister responsible for a Topical Issue appear before us, so I look forward to a deeply informed response.

I wish to raise the challenges in special care, particularly staffing of special care units. It is important that we contextualise this discussion by remembering that special care is a small part of our overall care system, with only a small number of young people in special care units. However, they are some of the most challenging and traumatised young people and, in many ways, they need the most help, have the most challenging behaviours, and have struggled in other placements and present with very acute specialised needs.

We have to remember that because of this these are difficult places to work. There is violence in these units occasionally. There is always challenging behaviour. They are difficult environments. When we look at the staffing numbers, we see the level of stress, sickness and injuries that we do not see in other parts of the childcare system. When we look at the numbers of new staff who have come in compared to the number of staff who are leaving special care units, we see that special care units struggle to keep the staff they have. They are already understaffed, yet they cannot grow their staffing because they are losing as many as they gain, if not more.

Based on numbers from a parliamentary question I asked during the recess, I know Ballydowd is down about one-third of its staffing levels. Crannog Nua is down about one-third of its staffing requirement. Coovagh House is almost there in terms of its staffing requirements. The consequence of this is that, for the safety of the young people and staff, beds and spaces in these units cannot be opened.

We need to remember that behind these numbers are young people who are in desperate need and are very damaged. There have been several comments from High Court judges and difficult cases before the High Court where special care is dealt with. We need to examine why there are gaps in staffing and what we can do about them.

Nursing provides a neat solution. In nursing, there are plenty of location and specialised allowances. We acknowledge that working in an intensive care unit is very different from other nursing positions and there are allowances based on working in specialised environments. We need to acknowledge that special care is a difficult place to work. It is a very different place to work from a normal mainstream residential unit. We need to acknowledge that by paying social care leaders and workers a location allowance that encourages them into and to stay in special care and acknowledges the extra work and the difficult job they are doing. This will allow us to open up beds that are currently closed due to the fact that there are not enough staff. Tusla is eager to get staff in. Special care may be a small area, but it is an important part of the care system and needs to be recognised as such, with specialised allowances for staff.

Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (Deputy Roderic O'Gorman)

I thank the Deputy for his Topical Issue submission and for raising this important matter. I recognise that he has long championed this particular issue. I share his concern about children in the care of the State and his recognition that those requiring special care, who are perhaps the most vulnerable, should have access to a special care place when they need it.

Tusla and I are well aware of the challenges in special care, which are complex and interrelated, and no one solution will solve all of the difficulties. However, there are a number of initiatives under way, which I will come back to presently. As the Deputy said, special care is a short-term intervention which places a child in a restricted secure setting operated by Tusla. A special care placement is a very serious intervention. It deprives a child of liberty and, as such, an application must be made by Tusla to the High Court in order to place a child in special care.

I am aware that Tusla is facing real challenges in its delivery of alternative care services and, in particular, in regard to the recruitment and retention of staff. These challenges are especially acute in the special care services - the Deputy has provided some figures - which is a challenging working environment where staff are at increased risk of violence or assault from the children, many of whom face significant behavioural challenges, to which the Deputy has spoken.

In this regard, staff turnover is high. I would like to take this opportunity to recognise the significant and invaluable contribution that special care staff make to safeguarding the needs of children with the most complex needs. Every effort is being made by Tusla to support appropriate access to and egress from special care services in Ireland. This includes a number of initiatives to support the recruitment and retention of staff in special care units, which is currently a primary limiting factor on the maximum number of beds that may be occupied in these units.

I want to set out some of the initiatives to which I referred. In addition to Tusla’s in-house recruitment, it has engaged two agency recruitment providers to source staff for direct employment in special care units. In addition, where agency staff have been engaged in special care units, they are offered an option by Tusla to apply for permanent positions through an agency conversion process, which is important.

A working group has been established to enhance the partnership between Tusla and colleges regarding the supply of graduates to work in special care. Each year, Tusla also offers approximately 24 placements in special care units to students, and this initiative is intended to provide students with valuable and positive experiences of working in special care residential services. In addition, part-time positions are offered to students who provide cover for shift work at weekends and shifts relating to unplanned absences.

In regard to staff retention, Tusla has established a dedicated retention project team to focus on key initiatives in this area, such as the introduction of a new special care induction policy to ensure new entrants receive standardised and cohesive training on commencement of employment. The agency has operated a three-week protected time induction programme for graduates since 2022, which included modules on compliance, HR and wellbeing training.

While financial remuneration is only one of the issues understood to be impacting on recruitment and retention, my Department is currently reviewing a proposal from Tusla on the special care allowance. Tusla’s strategic plan for residential care services proposes the creation of a number of step-down placements across the country, which will promote timely discharges from special care. My Department will seek to prioritise this initiative and investment in residential care in the context of ongoing resource allocation discussions. I would like to assure the House that my Department is actively engaging with Tusla on these issues, and will continue to provide whatever support to it that is necessary to address the current very significant challenges impacting on special care.

Deputy Patrick Costello

I thank the Minister for his detailed response. I know he understands the issues facing Tusla in general and the issues facing special care in particular. The issues we see in special care are replicated in other parts of Tusla. There is a challenge in terms of recruitment and I appreciate that.

The agency conversion aspect the Minister spoke of has been incredibly important in terms of retention and staff morale. It is an excellent thing, for a variety of reasons. It needs to be supported and continued. The outreach to students he mentioned is useful and important. Special care is a challenging place to work, but it can be very rewarding and is a unique place to work. It is positive for students to work there in the way the Minister set out.

However, partly because of special care's challenges people need special skills. A student who does not have the necessary support from an experienced social care leader will struggle and could be in a position of doing more harm than good to themselves. We know we need consistency and positive relationships in social work. These are things that improve matters and help the most. That is helped by staff retention and having as many full-time and whole-time staff as possible. The best way to do that is to create a special care allowance. As I said, such allowances have worked well in nursing and other professions. Social care leaders and workers working in this special, difficult and challenging environment should receive a special care allowance.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputy. As he knows, I meet Tusla on a quarterly basis. I was not at a meeting held two weeks ago, but at a previous meeting we discussed special care and the particular recruitment challenges in the sector. I specifically asked Tusla to bring forward a detailed business case for a special care allowance. That has been brought forward and we are considering it. We will revert to the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. As I say to all journalists now, all of these things are part of the Estimates process and we cannot give any more detail other than that. We see it is necessary in terms of the particular recruitment and retention challenges we face in the sector.

It is an important part but it is important for me to set out those other elements as well.

It is also important to note that we are drafting terms of reference between my Department and Tusla for a special care planning group to examine the future of special care in Ireland, particularly its configuration. That future-facing piece is really important. The current situation needs to be addressed by better recruitment and enhanced retention of staff. I very much hope to see a special care allowance play a part in that. I thank the Deputy for continuing to champion this issue. I know it is not hugely popular politically but it is so important. I have no doubt he will continue to my focus and that my Department on it.

An Garda Síochána

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Heydon, for taking this Topical Issue. Obviously, I would much prefer if the Minister for Justice was taking it but she has cover as I have seen her interviewed in Brussels. I spoke to her previously about the new operating model where the Louth Garda division will be combined with the Cavan-Monaghan division in December. It will be one of the few three-county models that will be in operation. This throws up significant issues.

Ardee, Dundalk and Drogheda joint policing committees met and there were discussions and no element of happiness. Alongside issues with the Garda roster, which I will deal with later, there was a determination that they would write to the Commissioner and the Minister to ask that this be stalled, reviewed and overturned. Deputy Munster and I wrote to the Commissioner about this. I will quote the reply I received:

Following a recent comprehensive review conducted by An Garda Síochána into the composition of Divisions with three counties under the Operating Model structure the Garda Senior Leadership Team has made the decision that Louth and Cavan/Monaghan will be amalgamated into one Division. The operating model is already implemented in seven divisions: Limerick, Kerry, Cork city, Galway, DMR South Central, Mayo-Roscommon-Longford and Clare-Tipperary.

Mayo-Roscommon-Longford is the only three-county model. There were plans to amalgamate Donegal and Sligo-Leitrim but that was reviewed and overturned and, therefore, it is on that basis that it makes sense to reconsider. I call on the Minister to engage with the Commissioner and his team to review this.

I do not have to tell anybody about the particular issues An Garda Síochána faces and the very important work it does. In my home town of Dundalk, three gardaí were injured, one of them more seriously than the others, and I wish them well. They were rammed by a stolen car close to Pearse Park. That is the reality of what they must deal with and the work they must do when they leave their homes in the morning.

We all saw the important work An Garda Síochána was involved in as part of that task force that led to the seizure of €157 million worth of cocaine. I commend An Garda Síochána, the task force, the Navy and the Army rangers and call for more of those operations as quickly as possible because the only way that cartels and all those involved in heinous drug crime will learn from this is when it hurts them in their pockets.

There were significant issues in Drogheda. No Deputy is unaware of the feud there and the significant operation it took through Operation STRATUS to deal with some of those criminal gangs. That is not to say all those issues have been dealt with.

As much as some streamlining is being offered in the new model, it does not make sense to me that Louth with its towns of Dundalk and Drogheda with their significant crime rates would be put in with Cavan and Monaghan and that there would be a single superintendent with responsibility for intelligence-led operations and serious crime, including murder investigations, across that area.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Martin Heydon)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue and to pass on the apologies of the Minister, who is in Brussels and, unfortunately, cannot be here.

As he will be aware, the Garda Commissioner determines the divisional structures throughout the State. The Minister does not have a role nor can she seek to direct the Commissioner regarding such matters. This is for good reason. We in this House have a policy role. Just as it is the Deputy's right to raise the points he just raised, there is a clear separation between the role of the Commissioner and the operational day-to-day duties he and his team carry out and the role of the Minister and her Department.

As the Deputy will also be aware, one of the core principles identified by the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland is that An Garda Síochána should be structured and managed to support front-line policing, which is at the heart of the concerns raised by the him. Front-line policing is what it is all about. As recommended by the commission and endorsed by Government, An Garda Síochána is currently in the process of transitioning to a new modern operating model. The new operating model structures require a change from the existing geographic model to a new functional-focused model. Specifically, the operating model will result in the enlargement of Garda divisions reducing the existing number of divisions from 28 to 21. Roll out of the model is underway, as the Deputy outlined in his contribution, with seven of the 21 divisions rolled out so far. The model is fully commenced in Dublin South Central, Cork city, Kerry, Galway, Limerick and Mayo-Roscommon-Longford, which were rolled out in 2022, and Clare-Tipperary, which was rolled out in August 2023. As we increase recruitment and as the operating model is rolled out across every division, we will see the reforms to strengthen community policing really take effect.

A particular strength of the operating model is that each division will for the first time have a superintendent dedicated to crime, a superintendent dedicated to governance and performance assurance and a number of superintendents in charge of community engagement.

An Garda Síochána has committed to ensuring superintendents will be in locations throughout a division and will not all be located in the divisional headquarters. There will also be a significant increase in the allocation of sergeants and inspectors to divisions, particularly in the area of community policing.

The continuing phased roll-out of the new Garda operating model will greatly benefit the Garda, supporting the redeployment of gardaí from non-core duties to front-line policing throughout the country creating larger divisions with more resources, increased Garda visibility in communities, a wider range of locally delivered policing services and a strong focus on community policing. The model will also facilitate more effective streamlining of administrative processes and reduce bureaucracy. Coupled with ongoing Garda recruitment, the roll-out of our community safety partnerships and community policing teams and bodycams, we are working to build stronger and safer communities.

Before this reform and the Commission on the Future of Policing, we were working with a policing model that was from a very different era that we inherited as a State. While the Deputy will reflect concerns there may be around change, not everybody likes change and change can be of concern to people, it is fair to say that nobody thinks we should stick with an old model from before the foundation of the State in some instances in terms of where Garda resources were placed. In this instance, we are seeing reform that is based on very significant work and with the expertise of the new operating model that is being implemented by the Commissioner and his team.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I will use the example of Donegal and Sligo-Leitrim. They said it was done on a geographic basis. I accept that Louth is the smallest county but it has two huge towns. If we are going to talk about crime statistics, unfortunately, Louth can hold its own with the best.

That is something we would prefer was not the case but that is the reality when you are dealing with big urban centres. We know the particular issues we have dealt with. There is one piece I really cannot get my head around. I understand the idea of streamlining. I really get it and also any civilianisation that can be done. The idea of community engagement which the superintendent puts forward makes complete sense. However, the fact is that we cannot deal with a situation where we have a single superintendent who is dealing with serious crime, murder, intelligence-led operations, and they are operating across all those three counties. I accept it is up the Garda leadership team to make the decision but in the end of the day the reviews that seem to occur seem to be highlighted by even the likes of my own colleague in Donegal, who is chair of the Donegal joint policing committee, JPC, by writing to the Commissioner and inviting him in. It is then reviews seem to occur. We know the whole issue with the rosters. The other issue my local JPCs have is the fear that we are going to lose community gardaí and members of the drug squad. As much as things did not go exactly well with the negotiations, it looks positive that the Commissioner has said he will meet with all the organisations individually, that there are no preconditions and that we may come to a solution. That is absolutely necessary. There have been some promises that people will not be leaving community policing but unfortunately I am hearing this is still happening in the town of Dundalk and I need to make sure it is not.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I thank the Deputy for that supplementary response. I take on board the points. It is hard to stand up here and highlight negative facts about his constituency but he does that to highlight his concern. I appreciate that. I accept it and believe it is done in good faith. I also counter that by saying that surely the people who are making the key decisions about the new districts are the ones who understand those challenges better. These are the gardaí who deal with these areas. This decision is not being made in isolation. I would be more concerned if the decision was being made by politicians in this House who are not on the front line dealing with all of the challenges the Deputy has outlined. These challenges are not specific to his region. We have different policing challenges in different parts of the country. My county of Kildare, which is a commuter belt not dissimilar to Louth, has a lot of challenges with a growing population and all the challenges that come with that. Different areas have those different elements. This structure is about trusting the Commissioner and the senior management team in An Garda Síochána to make those correct decisions, deploy the resources in the best possible way using the new operating model, which I know the Commission feels very strongly is much more appropriate to the level of policing that is needed in Ireland in this modern era, and face those challenges down.

The Deputy mentioned the rosters. We want to see a resolution to that matter. He talks about his concerns about losing different officers from certain positions. Ultimately, the engagement between the Garda representative bodies is absolutely critical here. We all agree that the old pre-Covid roster is not the best option here, but similarly the present Covid-19 roster is not sustainable either. What we want to get is a balance in the best interests of the welfare of the members of An Garda Síochána who do such an important job around the country but which also allows us to provide the type of policing that the general public in this country expect and deserve. There is a balance to be struck there that can be agreed through proper negotiations and detailed engagement. I hope all parties get back around the table as soon as possible in that regard.

Forestry Sector

Deputy Jackie Cahill

It is with regret that I have to stand here again and talk about ash dieback. I have spoken numerous times in this Chamber and in the committee room about the terrible financial consequences that ash dieback has brought on farmers. It is over ten years since ash dieback was discovered in this country and for the 16,000 hectares of land that attracted grant aid, unfortunately those farmers now have rubble instead of a profitable crop to harvest. I have been representing farmers for many years and I have never seen a case where a disease that was outside of farmers' control happened on farms, for which there was no compensation.

Whoever is to blame for ash dieback, it most definitely is not the farmer. We are promised another report on ash dieback in the next couple of weeks. What the men and women who own this land want is compensation. These people planted these ash trees, with the prospect of getting a serious financial return out of this crop. It is a crop that is known to be extremely profitable and it was planted in most cases on land that would not normally be afforested.

Our afforestation programme at the moment is in tatters. We have 8,000 hectares per year of a target in the programme for Government. In the lifetime of this Government, we will not plant 8,000 hectares, never mind per annum. The lack of confidence the ash dieback has caused in the forestry sector is one of the major factors why we are not meeting our targets in afforestation. The Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which I chair, and I, have put forward a report on forestry strategy where we have strongly recommended that if people replant their ash trees with whatever crop they want to put into the land, hopefully a profitable timber crop, they would access a premium for the next 20 years. While this would not compensate them for the huge financial loss they have suffered, at least they would have an income coming in for the next 20 years out of that afforestation and it would go some way to relieving the hardship they have suffered. They would have 20 years for the farmers to pay it back so the financial pressure on the Exchequer would be minimal. We have a moral responsibility to do this for these farmers. The boost it would give the forestry sector as well should not be underestimated. We would have 16,000 hectares that would be replanted within the next 12 to 18 months and that would have a huge impact on the private forestry sector, which is greatly in need of a boost. Contractors, nurseries, etc, with the lack of afforestation, are under real financial pressure.

As we get close to budget day, I urge the Minister to make sure there is an allocation in this year's budget to address ash dieback once and for all. This is something I feel we cannot walk away from. As chairman of the Oireachtas committee, we have made various recommendations to the Minister of this issue. Now is the time for action. These people have waited long enough. Let us give them compensation.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I start by thanking Deputy Cahill not only for raising this point in the House but also for his ongoing work as Chair of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and that of his committee members, in advocating on behalf of those farmers impacted. I concur with him on the impact it has on the broader forestry sector.

I offer the apologies of the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Senator Pippa Hackett, who could not be here and asked me to deliver this response on her behalf. I understand completely the stress and the frustration this has caused the people affected. Up there with the loss of an animal for a livestock farmer, crop failure is probably the worst other thing that can happen to a farmer. When it happens on rare occasions, it tends to be an annual crop that is gone the following year and farmers can get over it. However, to have stood in farmers' land and looked out at crops of ash that have been dying for years and are effectively dead, is soul-destroying. It affects farmers' mental health as well as financially. It has a really significant impact. I completely concur with the sentiment that the Deputy has outlined in terms of how big an issue this is for those who are affected.

As we know, it is a disease which has caused an irreversible effect on plantations throughout the country and we have been dealing with the impact since it was first discovered in Ireland in late 2012. In fact, a number of reconstitution schemes to deal with the issue have been initiated by the Department in order to help those landowners with failing ash dieback plantations. In March 2013, the Department introduced the reconstitution scheme for chalara ash dieback, to restore forests planted under the afforestation scheme which had suffered from or were associated with plants affected by the disease.

Following a review of the national response to ash dieback disease arising from scientific advice and evidence that eradication of ash dieback disease was no longer feasible, the reconstitution and underplanting scheme for ash dieback was launched in June 2020. In March of this year, the Minister of State, Senator Hackett, introduced an interim reconstitution scheme for ash dieback via general de minimis, which contains a doubling of site clearance rates, increased grant rates and an improved premium regime. The purpose of the scheme is to clear all ash trees and replant with other species. Under the new programme, a reconstitution scheme for ash dieback was launched. This is the same as the interim scheme and includes a 100% increase in the site clearance grant rate, from €1,000 to €2,000, and enhanced grant rates for new forest types as per the new forestry programme for 2023 to 2027. Those applicants whose sites are still in premium will continue to receive the premium due for the remaining years. There are premiums outstanding on 7,000 ha of grant-aided ash. In addition, for those in receipt of the farmer rate of premium, a top-up premium equal to the difference between the equivalent forestry type and the existing premium will be paid. This will be calculated for the remaining years left in premium and paid in a single sum.

To date, a total of €10 million has been expended on these reconstitution schemes, involving payments on approximately 2,400 ha. Aid has been applied for in respect of approximately 6,500 ha of the 15,897 ha of ash under the various reconstitution schemes to date.

The Minister of State, Senator Hackett, established an independent review of the Department’s ash dieback support scheme in June 2023 to review the existing and previous supports available to landowners with ash plantations funded under the national forestry programme that are now infected with Chalara. The review group recently presented its report to the Minister of State. Its findings are now being considered and assessed in accordance with the regulatory and legal framework. The Department must operate any schemes of financial aid in accordance with state aid regulations, the Forestry Acts and the public expenditure codes. Any forest owner who made an application to the 2020 reconstitution and underplanting scheme or the more recently opened new ash dieback scheme will not be disadvantaged if any changes are made as a result of the independent review process.

Deputy Jackie Cahill

I have had numerous meetings with farmers who were unfortunate enough to be affected by ash dieback. As I have said, the financial loss has been very great. When there was brucellosis, TB, dioxin in pigs and severe financial losses being incurred in horticulture, compensation was always put in place. Here we have a disease that, in cases, has resulted in 20 or 25 years of given lands' productivity being lost. I have never seen loss on such a scale being incurred by farmers.

We have had various schemes to encourage farmers to clear the sites but it can be seen from the figures that farmers are not buying into them. Confidence among those in this country's forestry sector has never been at a lower ebb. We have to do the right thing for those affected by ash dieback to start rebuilding that confidence. It would be a major step in rebuilding confidence in the sector and a major boost to the private forestry sector and the individual landowners. As I said in my initial statement, my ask is very simple and clear. If these forestry owners replant this land, they should be entitled to access to the premium for the next 20 years. That will not restore their financial losses. They have lost a very lucrative crop but, unfortunately, that is water under the bridge. We cannot restore that crop; it is gone. However, if they got what would, in effect, be a pension payment for them, the vast majority of those who have lost out would be reasonably content - I will not say satisfied - that the plight they have suffered, over which they had no control, was being recognised. When this review is being studied and in the days leading up to the budget, I urge the Minister of State to put the finance in place to give fair play to these people affected by ash dieback.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I thank Deputy Cahill for those points, which I will relay to the Minister of State, Senator Hackett. I completely concur that, when confidence is low in a sector like the forestry sector, the running sores have to be addressed and fixed. This is one such item. In fairness to the Minister of State, that is what she is attempting to do with this review. We look forward to its publication very soon. We now have a new forestry programme. Despite lengthy delays in getting approval from Brussels, we have finally got it over the line and are now in a position where, if we get our response to issues like ash dieback right, we can turn a corner on them and bring confidence back into the sector by looking after those who have been affected. Obviously, the Minister of State and her officials need to consider the report. It will be published. The resolution outlined in my earlier response needs to meet state aid rules, public spending codes and the relevant Acts but I hope we will have clarity on that in the very near future.

Scéimeanna Rannacha

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Tuigim go mbeidh an tAire Stáit ag úsáid an chórais aistriúcháin chomhuainigh agus go mbeidh sé ag freagairt i mBéarla. Tá sé sin sásúil domsa. Ní thuigim riamh an fhadhb atá againn leis an gcóras seo sa tír seo. Úsáideann chuile dhuine é nuair a théann muid go dtí an Bhruiséil agus oibríonn sé thar cionn.

Tá scéim na bhfoghlaimeoirí Gaeilge thar a bheith tábhachtach do leathnú na Gaeilge i measc daoine óga ar fud na tíre. Tagann scoláirí ó chuile chearn den tír go dtí an Ghaeltacht sa samhradh chun an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim agus tuiscint ar shaol na Gaeltachta a fháil. Ar ndóigh, leis an mborradh eacnamaíochta, tá laghdú ag teacht ar líon na dtithe atá ag coinneáil Gaeilgeoirí agus ar líon na mban tí. Tá sé sin intuigthe. Mar sin, tá sé níos tábhachtaí ná riamh go meallfar daoine chun na Gaeilgeoirí a choinneáil. Ní jab éasca ar chor ar bith é a bheith ag coinneáil Gaeilgeoirí agus tá sé ag éirí níos deacra mar tá go leor dualgas breise ar mhná tí le hais mar a bhíodh fadó. Ní mór iad a chúiteamh dá réir.

Mar bharr ar chuile dhonas i mbliana, tá moill aisteach ar íoc na teaghlaigh a choinnigh na Gaeilgeoirí. Go minic, nuair atá íocaíochtaí mar sin i gceist ag Ranna Stáit, ní bhíonn an deifir agus an dlús leo gur chóir a bheith leo. Mar shampla, mura bhfaigheadh an fhoireann íocaíocht ag deireadh na seachtaine, bheadh uafás orm. Ar an gcuma chéanna, tá na teaghlaigh seo - mná is mó atá i gceist - a chuireann an-dua orthu féin chun na scoláirí a choinneáil, i dteideal íocaíocht freisin.

Chuir mé ceist Dála scríofa le gairid maidir leis an gceist seo. Bhí iontas orm a fháil amach nach raibh measúnú déanta ach ar 60% de na héilimh. Bhí 40% de na héilimh nach rabhadar fiú tar éis breathnú orthu. As an 60% sin, bhí 30% nach raibh íoctha fós. Ciallaíonn sé sin nach raibh 42% íoctha. Bhí na scoláirí Gaeilge ann i mí an Mheithimh, mí Iúil agus mí Lúnasa den chuid is mó. Go deimhin féin, críochnaíonn bunáit na gcúrsaí i lár mhí Lúnasa mar bíonn scoláirí ag dul ar ais ag scoil roimh dheireadh na míosa. Shílfeá nach mbeadh fadhb ollmhór ag an Roinn na híocaíochtaí a cheadú nuair a fhaigheann sí na héilimh ó na coláistí, go mór mór leis na ríomhairí atá ar fáil sa lá atá inniu ann. Tá íocaíocht in aghaidh na hoíche i gceist. Tá an córas simplí. Comhaireann tú suas an méid oícheanta a raibh gasúr i dteach agus méadaíonn tú é sin le líon na ngasúr sa teach. Is é sin an freagra agus íocann tú iad. Ní thuigim cén fáth go bhfuil an córas chomh casta. Ní bhíodh sé mar sin nuair a bhí daoine ag déanamh chuile shórt le peann agus ag íoc seiceanna amach.

Mar a deirim, shílfeá nuair a bheadh sé ceadaithe ag an Roinn Turasóireachta, Cultúir, Ealaíon, Gaeltachta, Spóirt agus Meán go dtiocfadh sé go dtí an Roinn Airgeadais agus go mbeadh an íocaíocht déanta an lá dár gcionn. B'fhéidir go bhfuil dea-scéal ag an Aire Stáit dúinn - má tá réabhlóid tosaithe sa Roinn le seachtain anuas - agus go bhfuil na híocaíochtaí ar fáil. Más fíor é sin, beidh mé thar a bheith sásta.

Deputy Martin Heydon

Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCathaoirleach Gníomhach. I thank Deputy Ó Cuív for raising this matter. I apologise for the response being as Béarla. I apologise on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, who could not be here to take this matter here this evening.

The Irish-language learners scheme unit in the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media has assessed 76% of the payment claims the Department has received from recognised Irish colleges in relation to summer courses for 2023 and these have been forwarded to the Department's finance unit for payment. The unit is working on processing the remaining 15% of the payment claims that have been received in the Department. As it stands, the Department is awaiting completed paperwork from 9% of Irish colleges yet to submit a claim for courses held during the summer of 2023. In order to avoid delays, extra staff have been made available to the unit to assist with this process. It is expected that the remainder of the claims will be processed without delay.

The Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media provides significant assistance on an ongoing basis under the Irish-language learners scheme to support the Irish colleges sector. Under the scheme, assistance worth €12 per day is paid to recognised households towards each student coming to the Gaeltacht to learn Irish. Consequently, this grant indirectly reduces the fee charged by colleges to attendees. Almost 500 Gaeltacht families benefited from the grant last year and over 25,000 students and 40 Irish colleges benefited indirectly.

The following changes have been implemented by the Department over the past year to provide support for families who provide accommodation for those attending Irish colleges and for new families coming into the system: the start-up grant for new families or families who have left the system and want to return has been increased from €2,000 to €6,000, which is an increase of 300%; the grant paid in respect of students staying with recognised households under the Department's scheme for Irish-language learners has been increased by 20%; the maximum number of students allowed in recognised households has been increased from 12 to 16; the fund available under the DEIS Gaeltacht initiative has been significantly increased to provide additional opportunities by way of scholarships for DEIS post-primary school attendees from all over Ireland to attend an Irish-language course in the Gaeltacht, and these scholarships cover up to €850 for a three-week Gaeltacht summer college course.

To date this year, approximately 40 new families or households have been identified and registered under the scheme. As the Department is accepting applications on a continuous basis, it is expected that more applications will be received by the end of the year. Some 34 families registered under the scheme in 2019 and 39 did so in 2022, which indicates that the number of new families interested in registering under the scheme is increasing.

In addition to the aforementioned assistance provided for the benefit of the colleges and the sector as a whole, capital assistance is provided under the Department's language and community support programme. Many Irish-language colleges have benefited from this over the years, including colleges that are in private ownership. This assistance is provided to help colleges to upgrade their facilities and equipment. It goes without saying that the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media will continue to look at additional ways to further assist the sector in the future. The Department will also continue to engage with stakeholders on issues that may arise and will remain open to feedback and engagement with stakeholders on further supporting and developing the sector.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit as an bhfreagra sin. Ar an gcéad dul síos, b'fhéidir go bhféadfadh sé soiléiriú a thabhairt dom. Deir sé go bhfuil an Roinn tar éis próiseáil a dhéanamh ar 76% de na héilimh. Ansin, tá tagairt faoi dhó déanta aige go bhfuil 15% de na héilimh atá faighte ag an Roinn á bpróiseáil nó go bhfuil súil aici go mbeidh siad á bpróiseáil go luath. Nuair a bhaintear 76% ó 100%, is é sin 24%. B'fhéidir go mbeadh an tAire Stáit in ann a shoiléiriú dom cé as a dtagann an figiúr 15%. Nó b'fhéidir, mar a bhí ann sa fhreagra don cheist Dála, gurb iad na daoine sin atá ann ná iad ina bhfuil 76% de na héilimh próiseáilte ach go bhfuil 15% den chuid sin atá próiseáilte fós le híoc amach. An bhféadfadh an tAire Stáit é sin a shoiléiriú?

Cén iarracht atá déanta ag an Roinn maidir leis an 9% de na coláistí - tá sé sin an-ard - ina bhfuil na héilimh fós le cur isteach? Tá dualgas ar na coláistí freisin a chinntiú go bhfuil na mná tí ag fáil íocaíochta.

Bhíodh mo bhean ag coinneáil scoláirí sa teach seo againne agus tá a fhios agam go dtosódh sí luath san earrach ag caitheamh airgid, ag ceannach go leor bia tirim a bheadh ag teastáil, agus an teach a fheistiú agus a réiteach do na Gaeilgeoirí. Tá an costas ar fad sin titithe ar na mná tí i bhfad sular tháinig na scoláirí. Ansin tá an costas díreach ann freisin nuair atá siad ann; ag ceannach beatha agus mar sin de. Tá na mná tí as póca maidir leis an méid sin ar fad agus tá siad fós ag fanacht ar airgead na Roinne. B'fhéidir go mbeadh an tAire Stáit in ann a rá liom cén uair a bheidh 100% de na héilimh próiseáilte agus 100% de na hiarratais atá ar lámh íoctha?

Deputy Martin Heydon

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta arís. I will ensure that the points that he has raised are highlighted directly with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan. As I said at the outset, 76% of the payment claims the Department has received for 2023 have now been processed and the Department is working on processing the remaining 15% of the payments.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

What I said in Irish was that 76% had applied. By my calculation from the old mathematics I learned at school, that leaves 24% which are still to be processed, but twice the statement states to the contrary. I have a suspicion in this regard because I tabled a written question on the matter. Basically, I am seeking confirmation that 76% of applications have been processed but that 15% of those that have been processed have not yet been paid out.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Emer Higgins)

I thank the Deputy. I ask the Minister of State to reply now, please.

Deputy Martin Heydon

There are still some outstanding-----

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Can I have clarification on that point?

Deputy Martin Heydon

I will inform the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, of the Deputy's query. I will ask him to ensure that he or his officials respond directly to the Deputy on this point to clarify it for him. There are still some applications outstanding. As I was saying, 15% of the payment claims have been received and the Department is also awaiting completed paperwork from 9% of the Irish-language colleges. Upon receipt of that paperwork, these will be processed properly. Part of the challenge is that in 9% of the claims, paperwork is still awaiting submission from the Irish-language colleges. That 9% and the 15% mentioned is equal to the 24% queried by the Deputy, which ultimately gives the 100% figure.