Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 17 Jan 2024

Vol. 1048 No. 1

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Water Quality

Deputy Thomas Gould

For more than a year I have been receiving complaints about dirty, discoloured water. Before Christmas I put out a call asking people to contact me or my office if they have issues with discoloured and dirty water. Hundreds of people in Cork contacted me to say that they have had discoloured and dirty water for months, on and off. Before Christmas I met with Uisce Éireann. I was disappointed that no Government Deputy was at the meeting to hear what was going on, because I told them the reality that my constituents were facing. Some €40 million was spent on developing a new water treatment plant on the Lee Road in Cork. That was turned on more than a year ago and the water is now worse than it ever was.

How is it possible to spend €40 million and have worse and undrinkable water afterwards? This is 2024, and today alone, I was contacted by people in Blarney Street, Blackpool, and Ballyvolane who told me their water is still dirty. It is still unclean. This is drinking water we are talking about. A man contacted me and told me his mother had dementia and he found her on a number of occasions drinking discoloured water from the sink. There are vulnerable people, such as people who are blind or who might have limited sight. There are other people who tell me about the damage done to their showers, their washing machines and many other things. In all fairness, how is it possible in this day and age? Will the Minister of State contact Uisce Éireann to put a solution in place to sort this?

Deputy Mick Barry

When are my constituents going to be able to turn on their taps and not be fearful that orange water will come out? When are my constituents going to be able to turn on their taps and there not be a good chance that brown, discoloured, or dirty water will come out? When is Uisce Éireann going to stop making excuses about this situation and set out a plan for solving this problem? When is the Government going to stop standing idly by and do something to sort this mess out? I will keep going with a few more questions. When are my constituents going to stop having their laundry ruined by discoloured water? When are my constituents going to stop having their washing machines wrecked by discoloured water? When are people in Cork going to stop having their dishwashers ruined by discoloured water and when are people going to be able to stop spending €20 a week, €1,000 a year, on bottled water in a cost-of-living crisis because they are nervous about what is coming out of their taps, especially for their kids?

The Government has three Cork Ministers at the Cabinet table. Micheál Martin has been very quiet about all of this. Simon Coveney has been very quiet about all of this. Michael McGrath has been very quiet about it as well. It is not just me who is asking these questions. Thousands of my constituents are asking the very same questions. This is an election year and the Minister of State and his Government would want to start providing a few answers to my constituents very damn soon.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

Gabhaim buíochas leis na Teachtaí as ucht an cheist seo. The Cork city water supply is a really important issue and we appreciate the concerns being raised by both Deputies on this and regarding having to buy bottled water and regarding the discolouration issue. It is something that is affecting communities in Cork and we are conscious of that.

As part of budget 2024, the Minister secured funding of €1.6 billion to support Uisce Éireann in the delivery of water services. This overall investment will deliver significant improvements in our public water and wastewater services. The national development plan commits to almost €6 billion in capital investment to be undertaken by Uisce Éireann in the period from 2021 to 2030, of which more than €4.5 billion will be voted Exchequer funded in respect of domestic water services. This sustained investment will improve capacity, performance and particularly the resilience of water services, which is something we all welcome.

Uisce Éireann has acknowledged that the water services in Cork City are not meeting the standards customers rightly expect, especially in light of the significant investment in the water infrastructure in Cork city over recent years, which has been mentioned by Deputy Gould. Uisce Éireann has informed me that there are approximately 600 km of water mains in Cork city, approximately 507 of which are old cast iron pipes and are up to 100 years old. Due to the age and deteriorating condition of the pipes, they are prone to bursts and leakage. In old cast iron mains, sediment can become dislodged during repairs or upgrade works and can occasionally be carried through to customers’ taps, leading to water appearing brown or orange. Uisce Éireann is committed to carrying out all necessary works to reduce instances of discolouration of drinking water, and as a result of the work carried out to date, there is a downward trend in reported cases. Uisce Éireann continues with works to flush the network in targeted areas across the city, and areas are prioritised based on customer feedback and reports received by the Uisce Éireann customer care team. This work involves isolating small sections of the network and flushing them. Since the beginning of January, Uisce Éireann engineers have been on the ground in numerous parts of the city. I will provide the list shortly of the areas on which they are working.

The current freezing temperatures can impact on water pipes, causing bursts that lead to discolouration. It also limits the flushing that can be carried out due to risks posed to icy roads and footpaths by flushed water. Uisce Éireann is focusing its efforts on flushing in areas where water mains have burst, including the Douglas Road area, to ensure continuation of supply and limit impacts of discolouration. Uisce Éireann continues to closely monitor reservoirs and the water network that supply the city. Reservoir cleaning was carried out in November and there was a subsequent improvement in water quality. Testing and analysis of the water supply is continuing, including extensive monitoring across Cork city’s water network, to ensure water is compliant with drinking water regulations and is safe to drink. The results of these ongoing tests are shared with the Environmental Protection Agency and the HSE.

I will give a list of the areas in which there has been mains flushing since the start of January this year. These include Greenmount Avenue, Industry Place, Kevin Street, Ballinderry Park, Liffey Park, Silverheights Avenue and Road, Merrion Court, Liam Healy Road, Knockpogue Park, Delaney Park, Rathmore Place, Sarsfield Terrace, St Joseph's Drive, Dublin Hill, River Towers, and Hillcrest Rise. I am sure these are all the areas to which both Deputies are referring, so it is a matter that Uisce Éireann is working hard to try to resolve for the residents affected.

Deputy Thomas Gould

The Minister of State named out areas and I will give a few more. Ballyvolane and Gurranabraher have had a problem for more than a year - 15 months. People in Ballyvolane have sent me photographs of filthy water. You would want to see what is coming out of people's taps. The Minister of State mentioned a couple of areas such as Dublin Hill. I was contacted by a resident in Dublin Hill today or yesterday and I was also contacted by someone in Blarney Street earlier on today because I told people I was raising the issue in the House. It is not good enough. Uisce Éireann is not doing its job. Millions are being spent and the quality of the drinking water is affected.

I live on Cathedral Road and my neighbours are telling me they cannot use the water. They cannot have showers in the morning before they go to work or college. I know of a pensioner in Dublin Hill who has to get water delivered because she cannot carry it up the hill. She does not trust the drinking water. We have families who have to get bottled water for their kids because they do not trust it. Even when the water is clean, people have told me it does not taste the same. I have been on to the EPA and the HSE-----

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. The time is up.

Deputy Thomas Gould

This is a very serious issue and I have no faith that Uisce Éireann is dealing with it.

Deputy Mick Barry

On 8 January, a motion was put to Cork City Council calling on the Government to abolish Uisce Éireann and to return control of water services to the local authorities. That motion was passed by 13 votes to 9, with even some Government councillors voting for it. Privatisation of water services has proved to be a disaster in Cork city. Uisce Éireann allowed a private company to build, design and operate the new Lee Road waterworks. Some €40 million was spent on the project and the water supply is now worse than ever.

Two things need to be done. First, Uisce Éireann and the Government need to outline a plan with a clear timetable of how this problem is going to be sorted out and they need to communicate that plan clearly to the people of Cork. Second, the privatisation of water services needs to be reversed; not in ten or five years' time but in 2024 before more damage is done.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I will say two things to both Deputies. First, our water supply, network and services and Uisce Éireann form a public utility that is in public ownership. It is not privatised. We consistently hear this argument in this House.

Deputy Mick Barry

It is contracting out to private, for-profit, contractors.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please stop interrupting, Deputy.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

As the Deputy well knows, DBO contracts to put in place water services are contracts with Uisce Éireann.

Uisce Éireann is a publicly-owned utility. I moved the legislation in this House myself to ensure that it is a public utility. Whatever about the motion in Cork City Council-----

Deputy Mick Barry

It is contracted to private companies.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

That work has to be carried out.

An Ceann Comhairle

Minister, do not get involved.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I will just say that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Minister, please do not get involved.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

It is a publicly owned utility.

An Ceann Comhairle

Minister, please do not get involved in a one-to-one with the Deputy.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

It is important to say that.

Second, I will say-----

Deputy Mick Barry

Backed up by the banks.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

-----in relation to the issues, if there are other areas I have not listed in my opening contribution to the Deputies, I ask that they bring them forward to us. I will absolutely bring them back to Uisce Éireann. It is the intention of Uisce Éireann to resolve these issues. When the water is clear, municipal water is of the highest quality and highest standard and the vast majority-----

Deputy Thomas Gould

Not down in Cork.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

-----of our public supplies are of good quality and far better than a lot of bottled water people are purchasing. I will say that as well.

It is Government's objective to ensure that we fully fund Uisce Éireann to carry out its work and meet its requirements in delivering safe, potable water to people.

Deputy Mick Barry

When will this be solved?

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

All I will ask is that the Deputies bring forward areas that have not been resolved by Uisce Éireann-----

Deputy Mick Barry

You are waffling.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

-----and we will bring them back to Uisce Éireann.

Deputy Thomas Gould

We need a date. I do not think it is unreasonable to look for a date for when we will have clean drinking water in Cork.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is unreasonable when the Minister of State does not possess a magic wand whereby he can say-----

Deputy Thomas Gould

He is the Minister. If the Minister cannot tell us when we will have clean water-----

Deputy Mick Barry

It has been a year and a half now.

An Ceann Comhairle

As the Deputies may learn in the future, being a Minister does not confer infallibility on you either.

Deputy Thomas Gould

No, but it is important that the job is done properly.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

What I am giving is a commitment that we will take this to Uisce Éireann. If there are any other issues or other areas that I have not mentioned here that Uisce Éireann is working on-----

Deputy Mick Barry

That is not what we are looking for.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

-----the Deputies should please bring them to us, and we will bring them back to Uisce Éireann.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Minister of State very much.

Special Educational Needs

Deputy Brian Stanley

I welcome the opportunity to raise this very important issue with the Minister of State. As he knows, autism spectrum disorder units are very important. It is important children have access to them. We have a chronic shortage of ASD units at second level in all of County Laois. Good work has been done in existing ASD units at primary level and in some second level colleges in the country where they exist. However, we need expansion of it because of the enrolment. We have had a rapid population increase in the county. The last census shows that there has been a huge population increase. An increasing number of children will be coming on stream and going into secondary schools. I have been contacted by parents of children who are moving from primary school to secondary school in September and who cannot get a place in the ASD unit. The children are coming out of ASD units. All the reports are recommending that they remain in an ASD unit at second level. When transitioning from primary level to second level, it can be challenging for children who do not have a special need. However, I think the Minister of State will accept that it can be a very anxious time for children who have special needs and their parents. They need that support and extra help that is given in the ASD units.

The school boards of management are frustrated. The staff are frustrated. Parents are worried. There are a number of schools in which these are needed. Many of these need new accommodation to build them. They are in line for new accommodation but as yet, it is not coming. Portlaoise College needs four extra ASD classes. I spoke to the staff there just yesterday about it. St. Mary's CBS Portlaoise needs two extra classes. Coláiste Íosagáin in Portarlington needs two. I understand that it does have the spaces. Coláiste Dhún Másc in Portlaoise needs two extra ASD classes. Heywood Community School in Ballinakill needs two extra ASD classes. A number of schools need that. The Minister of State can understand that. I have spoken to parents whose children are number 14 or 15 on a list. That might be okay for mainstream classes because people will drop out or go to other schools. However, with the small numbers of places available, if a person is down that far, he or she has little hope of getting in.

I say to the Minister of State in a very strong and conscientious way that it is really important children have this intervention in their teens and as they move through their teenage years. We know that if the interventions are not there at that point and they do not get the learning supports that are required, this will hold them back. However, it also causes further consequences in later life in terms of employment. Children may get into trouble as adults and people may go down the wrong road. It may cause all sorts of problems throughout their lives in terms of employment, home life, social life and all other aspects of their lives.

I accept that some of the buildings will be modular, some will be rapid builds, and some will be standard construction. I am not that hard and fast - most people are not - about what we get once they are quality structures. A lot of the new modular builds are very good, if that can be done. Those schools I named need action. This cannot be postponed. We have to make headway with it. We have to make sure these children make the transition successfully out of primary school from sixth class into first year. We need to keep them within the education system and build for them a successful future. We must ensure they have a bright time ahead of them as they go through the school system and progress in life.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, for being here to deal with this Topical Issue matter.

Minister of State at the Department of Social Protection (Deputy Neale Richmond)

I genuinely and sincerely thank Deputy Stanley for raising this issue and laying out very considerably what is an extremely delicate matter - I think we both accept that - not just for the students in question but particularly their families, teachers and the wider school community.

At the outset, with the Deputy's indulgence, I would like to lay out a little bit of the detail with regard to the work of the Department of Education and National Council For Special Education on how they are continuing to support children with special educational needs, not just at a post-primary level but also at a primary school level, although I will particularly refer to post-primary level in County Laois at the end.

In 2023, the Department of Education spent in excess of €2.6 billion, or over 27% of the Department’s budget, on providing additional teaching and care supports for children with special educational needs, and further progress will be made this year as an additional €113 million will be dedicated to providing supports for children with special educational needs.

This will allow the Department to further the number of teaching and SNA posts in our schools with an additional 744 teachers and 1,216 SNAs added to deliver up to 2,700 new places for children with special educational needs. This will mean we will have over 41,500 qualified and committed people in our schools who are focused wholly and exclusively on supporting children with special educational needs. The NCSE has responsibility for co-ordinating and advising on the education provision for children nationwide.

Over the last number of years, the Department of Education and the NCSE have introduced a number of strategic initiatives to plan for and provide sufficient mainstream, special class and special school places. These initiatives are bearing fruit with more than 1,300 new special classes sanctioned and seven new special schools established over the last four years.

The Department continues to engage intensely with the NCSE with regard to the forward planning of new special classes and additional special school places. This forward planning work is well under way ahead of the 2024-2025 school year. This work involves a detailed review of statistical data with regard to forecasting demand for special class places, an analysis of available school accommodation, consideration of improved data sharing arrangements and a particular focus on the provision of special classes at post-primary level. As a result of this forward planning, the education Ministers announced the establishment of two special schools for this school year, with further capacity being expanded in 11 other special schools and that a further four special schools for the 2024-25 school year will be established.

Along with the two new special schools, 389 new special classes, that is, 253 at primary and 136 at post-primary level, have been sanctioned by the NCSE for opening this school year. Of these, eight are in Laois - four at primary level and four at post-primary - bringing the total number of special classes in County Laois to 60, that is, 44 at primary level and 16 at post-primary level.

The NCSE is currently engaging with a number of post-primary schools, including schools such as Coláiste Íosagáin and Heywood Community School to which the Deputy referred, to open further classes for the 2024-2025 school year and these details will be finalised in the coming weeks.

I will undertake this evening that as soon as these details are finalised, they will be forwarded to Deputy Stanley and his office for consideration and that there will be an increased amount of consultation with the parents, students and teachers in question. We all are in shared agreement that there is absolutely a need for additional classes across the country and, indeed, particularly at post-primary level. I look forward to engaging further with the Deputy going forward.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I have followed what he said here very carefully.

I welcome the fact there is some forward planning happening under the National Council for Special Education. That is really important. On this forward planning, the Minister of State said works are under way for the 2024-2025 school year and there are 389 new special classes. In Laois, I have spoken to people in the second-level educational sector who deal in special education and who are running second-level schools, boards of management, staff, etc. According to the figures, there are 12 classes needed to catch up with the required number of students coming through this year. Ten, at a minimum, is what it looks like to me. That is the best figure I can put on it. While I welcome that, of these new ones that have been sanctioned, eight are in Laois. Four are at primary and four are at post-primary, but what I am saying to the Minister of State is there are another six to eight needed at second level.

There are 389 special classes sanctioned. I understand some of them will be at primary level and some of them will be at second level. If we say it is half and half, there are roughly nearly 200 if you were splitting them down the middle. Laois needs to get a fair slice of those. I accept every Deputy will be looking for them for his or her own area but I am saying, because of the rapid growth in population in Laois and because we are playing catch-up in terms of the provision of ASD units and ASD classes, it is very important. Government is playing catch-up with this. I would like to see the following schools looked at again: Portlaoise College, the CBS Portlaoise, Coláiste Íosagáin in Portarlington, Coláiste Dhún Másc, Heywood Community School in Ballinakill and Scoil Chríost Rí.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Brian Stanley

Two of them, as I understand it, do not have enough physical space already but the rest of them all require buildings.

An Ceann Comhairle

The time is up. I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to do that. The Minister of State might just give me a response on where each one of those schools is at. That would be really helpful.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister of State might not be able to do it now but I am sure he might respond.

Deputy Neale Richmond

As the Deputy can understand, I cannot give specifics on the hoof on those schools in question but I will speak to the Minister in question and make sure that is communicated to the Deputy as soon as possible by the Department's team.

The following alludes in some ways to the situation in Laois in particular. Laois is a county the Deputy will know better than me. Indeed, it is the Ceann Comhairle's neighbouring county, so he knows well the rapid growth that has been consistent throughout the county, but particularly around the county town of Portlaoise, especially in terms of the additional housing accommodation over the past decade or 15 years, but more so in recent years. This has all been taken into account by the Department of Education, which is planning for the increased demographic and for increased prevalent rates of need for special classes and has, therefore, engaged extensively with post-primary stakeholders. Indeed, the Department of Education communicated to post-primary schools nationwide the need to begin planning to provide additional special classes. It is envisaged that all post-primary schools will be required to provide special classes over the next two to four years, with an approximate average of four special classes in each school. Whether it be Portlaoise College, Scoil Chríost Rí or any of the other schools the Deputy has mentioned, if they have identified that they have space and they are in a position to do it, the Department of Education with the NCSE will ensure that space is utilised, maximised and, more importantly, the needs of the children at post-primary level in the Deputy's county and, indeed, the needs of their families and wider community are met as quickly as possible.

As a nation, we are playing catch-up on this. That is not through any lack of political will. It is merely increased prevalence of treatment that has occurred through circumstances. No doubt this will be resolved as quickly as possible. I am sure the Ministers concerned look forward to working closely with the Deputy to guarantee this.

An Ceann Comhairle

Nílimid ag déileáil anocht leis an tsaincheist ón Teachta Mattie McGrath toisc nach bhfuil an tAire ar fáil.

Rail Network

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Gabhaim buíochas don Aire Stáit as ucht teacht isteach.

I received an email recently from the students union in Galway. It said it had received multiple reports from students who get the train into the city from Athenry that it is often full or late and that there have even been cases where students have been refused entry to the train as they did not have a ticket for that specific journey despite having a monthly ticket that permits them on the train. The writer assumed I had likely heard, which I had, and had heard it from many people, that the trains in and out of Galway are packed and the trains from Limerick and Dublin are similarly packed.

There are 17 trains from Athenry to Galway. Some of those originate in Limerick and some originate from the Dublin direction. That is, on the face of it, quite a success because it is not so many years ago that people were saying it had been foolish to open the Limerick to Galway line. It has also been verified to me that the trains from Limerick are full when they get to Athenry and that the section of the line that was meant to carry no passengers was, according to Iarnród Éireann, the most rapidly growing line in terms of patronage in 2022. We will have to see what 2023 has brought but, by all records, this is absolutely true. We have a great success story. Of course, I have often believed that if you build it, they will come. Especially with railways, we have seen time and again that if you build it, they will come. In places where people believed there never would be patronage, there is massive patronage. We can say that is great, and I am delighted as I was involved in the initial investment, but we need to do more.

It is an awful tragedy that people cannot get on trains when they have paid for their tickets. It is a tragedy that when people want to take public transport, they find the service cannot accommodate them. It is important we sweat the assets. We are always talking about the metro. I have been a proponent of the metro for the past 20 years but it is also important we do the simple things and sweat the assets.

Put in simple terms, what can be done? The first thing is more carriages could be put on the trains. Longer trains provide better capacity. The second thing we need are longer platforms so that longer trains can be accommodated because, I understand, particularly on the Limerick line, one of the constraining factors is that the platforms are not long enough for six-carriage trains. Slightly more long term are more passing loops, and the most urgent place - it is in train as they are going for planning permission this year - is to get that passing loop between Athenry and Galway which will allow for a radical increase in the frequency of the trains.

I am anxious to find out today what programme the Government has on all of those fronts: longer trains where there is the capacity, lengthening the platforms to take longer trains, which is a relatively simply job, and then putting in the passing loops we need so that we can get a much greater frequency on these single-line tracks. What we need is a train not every 40 minutes but down to every quarter of an hour in each direction in the long term. In the short term, will the Minister of State tell me what will be done to make sure that if a person turns up for the train, that person can get on the train?

Deputy Neale Richmond

I thank Deputy Ó Cuív sincerely for raising this important topic which, he will understand, I am taking on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Ryan.

I clarify, as the Deputy will be well aware, that the Minister for Transport has responsibility for policy and overall funding in public transport, but neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services. The statutory responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger transport services nationally rests with the National Transport Authority. However, I reassure the Deputy that Iarnród Éireann is working towards a strategy for substantial enhancement of services on intercity routes in the short to medium term, including Dublin to Galway and Limerick to Galway. However, it must be noted these enhancements will be subject to agreement with and funding by the NTA, as well as the completion of other projects to release rolling stock to realise these service enhancements.

More immediately, while the existing Iarnród Éireann operational fleet is already fully deployed on scheduled services, last year larnród Éireann took delivery of the final batch of 41 intercity rail cars, with the carriages to enter service during 2024.

The exact deployment of the additional carriages is still to be determined but they should allow for capacity increases across the network.

On the Dublin to Galway line, I understand that Iarnród Éireann continues to operate the pre-Covid schedule on this line, with ten train services each way daily. Further, I understand that Iarnród Éireann intends to implement substantial enhancements in intercity service levels on the Dublin to Galway line, building towards an hourly service in the coming months. More generally, Iarnród Éireann is maximising use of its rolling stock to meet demand and will continue to monitor passenger loadings, as the Deputy has described. I understand that passenger numbers have recovered significantly post-pandemic, particularly on longer distance rail services.

The next significant rail expansion involves two initial orders of 185 electric and battery-electric carriages for the DART+ fleet, placed in December 2021, which is 95 carriages, and December 2022, which is 90 carriages. Up to 750 carriages in total are to be ordered over the coming decade. The first 95 carriages will arrive from the middle of this year, entering service from 2025. This will allow for further service improvements across the rail network. I want to reassure the Deputy that the Department of Transport, the NTA and Iarnród Éireann are working to ensure the optimised deployment of resources across the public transport network to match changing passenger demand patterns.

The Deputy has outlined what I consider to be reasonable requests but they are ambitious ones. He is right; I do not know if deliberately quoted "Field of Dreams" but I fully agree with him that if you build it they will come. As someone who is lucky to live on a light rail network in my part of the world, a part of the world the Deputy knows as well as I do, it has transformed the commuter experience for so many generations of people since it came into operation 20 years ago. The Government is committed to making sure that is realised for Galway as well. I am sure the Minister, Deputy Ryan, completely shares this. I undertake to bring all of this back to him and to make sure the Deputy gets those detailed updates from his office and the NTA as they develop over this coming year.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I have one advantage over the Minister of State in that I travelled on the old Harcourt Street railway line before it was abandoned and sold precipitously. It was way too slow when they decided to reopen it and parts of it had been built on. There is a salutary message in this. Why did they close it? They said they would not have the passengers. They say the same thing about Limerick to Galway and Athenry to Claremorris. As I said, the people come.

The second thing is that I am always amused when people start mentioning the DART in an answer on Galway because there is no DART in Galway. It reminds me of the DART to Dingle, which the Minister of State is probably too young to remember. It was a Celtic tiger joke because of the lack of services in rural Ireland.

The Minister of State might clarify the following point to me: what is the role of the Minister if he has no role in any of these things? Every time we put a question to the Department of Transport about anything, we are told the Minister has no role in the matter. I often wonder why we are paying him a salary at all. The Minister of State and I know that the Minister has a role because he who controls the purse controls the policy. We have these extra carriages and I need to know how many of those will be deployed on the Galway to Dublin line.

What will be done to make sure that extra carriages can be deployed on the Limerick to Galway line? On that line people are literally sitting on the floor in the train. This is the line that was not going to carry any passengers. The thing we need is longer platforms, a simple ask. I need to know how many of these extra carriages we will get, when we will get an increase on the services outlined here and what will be done to increase the ability of the Galway to Limerick line to have more capacity to measure up against existing demand, not to mind future demand.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am interested in this as well. I know the Minister of State will not have the answer but maybe he will ask the Minister, Deputy Ryan. In his reply the Minister of State said: "The first 95 carriages will arrive from mid-2024, entering service from 2025." If they are coming in 2024 why would they not be put immediately into service? Why would they have to wait until 2025?

Deputy Neale Richmond

Beyond the Minister, Deputy Ryan, Deputy Matthews is the expert. As a rail engineer he spent 20 years working on the railways. I am sure there is a good reason there is a gap between arrival and deployment. There is a time delay and I will make sure the Minister, Deputy Ryan, tracks-----

An Ceann Comhairle

If I bought a new car tomorrow I would not want to wait for six months before I could drive it.

Deputy Neale Richmond

I am sure there is a version of spinning it around the showroom but I will make sure the Minister, Deputy Ryan, provides clarity there. Deputy Matthews spent ages on this tonight and he would have known for sure.

I will not repeat and reiterate things that Deputy Ó Cuív knows better than I because he has been there and has seen what the Department of Transport has been doing in enhancing the capacity of the Galway area network when it comes to rail, nor will I insult him by stating exactly when these carriages will come online because he and I know I do not have that exact answer. The Deputy raises an interesting point and there is no need for a philosophical debate but he served in government for a hell of a lot longer than I did so he knows exactly the role of a Minister and a State agency and the frustration all of us feel when the reply is not directly forthcoming from the Minister's office.

However, the budget that has been allocated in the Department to ensure we have a massive increase in public transport services, particularly in rail and light rail, wherever it may be in the country, has been increased year on year, and it is a budget provided to the NTA to make sure there are realistic ambitions based on various feasibility studies. I agree with the Deputy. I know that the Minister, Deputy Ryan, is massively committed to the Deputy on the upgrade of services into Galway, from Limerick and Dublin, via Athenry. This will be achieved. It will not be exactly at the rate and timeline that the Deputy aspires to. It should be but there are lots of issues at play. I will ask the Minister, Deputy Ryan, to give the Deputy a direct response from his office and not to defer to another agency on exactly when the 41 new carriages will be deployed and on how many will be deployed to specific lines. I will also ask him to reply to An Ceann Comhairle about when they will get on track.

An Ceann Comhairle

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta agus go speisialta leis an Aire Stáit as a bheith anseo ag an am déanach seo istoíche.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 11.07 p.m. go dtí 9 a.m., Déardaoin, an 18 Eanáir 2024.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.07 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Thursday, 18 January 2024.