Vol. 1049 No. 3
84. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform how the finding of the recently published ESRI report, The National Development Plan in 2023: Priorities and Capacity, will shape the review of NDP ceilings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5760/24]
Will the Minister outline the procedure involved in ensuring that the findings of the recently published Economic and Social Research Council, ESRI, report, The National Development Plan in 2023: Priorities and Capacity, will be incorporated and ultimately change the current NDP ceilings so we know we are investing enough in housing and making sure that the construction activity is directed where it is most needed to provide residential homes?
I thank the Deputy for the question. As the Deputy is aware from the various points she has put to me, the Economic and Social Research Institute published its report,The National Development Plan in 2023: Priorities and Capacity, on 12 January 2024.
It is important to reiterate the rationale behind why I commissioned this report by the ESRI. A comprehensive review of the national development plan, NDP, was undertaken over the course of 2020 and 2021, which led to the publication of an updated NDP in October 2021. Since then the €165 billion NDP has supported a broad range of infrastructure projects and programmes which our country and citizens need and require. However, of course I acknowledge that the challenges posed in the intervening period since October 2021 such as full employment and heightened inflationary pressures were not anticipated to the extent experienced at the time of updating the NDP. As a result, in March I informed the Government of a package of significant actions aimed at enhancing project delivery of the NDP of which one was to commission an independent evaluation of NDP priorities and capacities.
The ESRI published its final report in January 2024. The report is currently informing ministerial colleagues, officials and me as we engage with Departments on their NDP allocations to 2026. In this context, the report is providing valuable input to this process in the consideration of key issues such as the capacity to deliver priorities and utilise capital allocations in an economy characterised by full employment facing significant supply constraints.
That is an answer but it does not answer my questions. The ESRI report was with the Minister's Department before the budget last year and an early draft was with the Department as early as June last year. This report makes it clear that there is need to increase housing targets. Sinn Féin has spent the last four years warning that housing targets were too low. Finally the expertise of the ESRI was sought to examine the capital investment, as the Minister has said. The report states that existing targets for housing supply understate the need and concludes that higher output will be needed. Despite having this information, which the Minister commissioned, the Minister announced a budget that provided no additional funding for housing. Did the Minister share that information with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage before budget day? Why did the Government choose not to act on that information?
Respectfully I beg to differ. The Deputy asked me the question around how the findings of the recently published report shaped the national development plan in 2023, how we are dealing with priorities and capacities in review of NDP ceilings, and if I would make a statement on the matter. That is the question the Deputy put to me and that is the question I answered.
With regard to the points the Deputy put to me on my engagement with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, the Minister is making case, and has been making the case, for more funding and for more support to go into the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and into the building of more homes.
On the Deputy's point around no additional capital being allocated on budget day the capital ceiling and the level of capital spending for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage went up. When the budget was done we confirmed that we will be spending more money on housing in 2024 than we did in 2023. I am now working with the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, to look at how much additional funding can be made available and what would be the impact of that given the debate under way on the revision of housing targets.
When it comes to the State building social and affordable homes it is very clear now that the targets for 2023 are not going to be met in counties like Mayo. Indeed not a single house was delivered in Mayo in the first nine months of 2023.
Another crucial finding of the ESRI report is about the workforce and the need and potential use of the taxation system to redirect construction work. The report outlines how taxation can be used to move construction workers and companies away from activity such as office space, hotels and car parks and towards the building of homes. Sinn Féin has long put this forward as a solution to increase housing delivery, and we proposed this in the budget as well. Now that the idea is coming from the ESRI I hope the Minister will take it on board.
Did the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, share the report with the Minister for Finance, Deputy McGrath, before budget day?
I had the report in draft format earlier on in the year. I cannot remember if it was available in draft format to my Department before or after the budget because the budget season is always so intense. I did not see the actual report itself until far later in the year. As soon as the report was published it was shared with the Minister for Finance but there will be nothing in the report that will come as a surprise to the Minister for Finance or to his Department.
On the reallocation of economic activity within our economy and using taxation to do that we have increased stamp duty on commercial property on multiple occasions in other budgets. In many of the budgets I did in the last Dáil we increased stamp duty on commercial property. It is well known that there are signs of the commercial property sector now beginning to decline and it is not clear to me what would be served given that commercial construction is now potentially beginning to moderate how such an application of further changes on tax policy to a sector that is beginning to moderate would be of benefit.
These are matters for the Minister for Finance and I know he always keeps these matters under review.
85. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform the amount spent on flood defence systems in each of the past ten years. [5302/24]
One of the great weaknesses of this Government has been its inability to deliver infrastructural projects. There are numerous infrastructural projects in this country that are well over time and well over budget. Flood defences are an example of this. Flood defences in Midleton, County Cork, were discussed and promised as far back as 2017 but despite the devastating floods that have happened there in recent times, the date for planning permission for Cork County Council has not even been decided. Worse than that, the Government cannot even give a date for the interim measures to address the flooding there. When will the Government be able to confirm these important plans?
This question refers to the amount spent on flood defence schemes in each of the past ten years. That is the question I propose to answer.
The Office of Public Works, OPW, as the lead agency for flood risk management, is co-ordinating the delivery of measures towards meeting the Government's national flood risk policy. In 2018, to establish those communities that are at risk from significant flood events, the OPW completed the largest study of flood risk ever undertaken by the State, namely, the catchment flood risk assessment and management, CFRAM, programme. The CFRAM programme studied 80% of Ireland's primary flood risk and identified solutions that can protect over 95% of that risk. Some 150 additional flood relief schemes were identified through the programme.
The Government has committed a budget of €1.3 billion to the delivery of these schemes over the lifetime of the national development plan, NDP, to 2030 to protect approximately 23,000 properties in communities that are currently under threat from river and coastal flood risk. Since 2018, a phased approach to scheme delivery, in partnership with local authorities, has allowed the OPW to treble the number of schemes at design or construction stages at this time to some 100 schemes. As well as a financial commitment to meet costs, progressing this significantly increased number of flood relief schemes requires capacity and capability in highly specialised areas of engineering such as hydrology. Expenditure in the earlier stages of a project, that is, scoping, scheme development and preliminary design, planning process, and detailed design, represents a small proportion of the overall budget of a flood relief scheme. Schemes at construction, or stage 4 of the project, incur the greatest level of expenditure. There is no legislative or regulatory means of fast-tracking schemes to that stage.
Since 2014, €544 million has been invested in flood relief measures by the Office of Public Works. The breakdown, as requested by the Deputy, is as follows: €43.5 million in 2014; €48.3 million in 2015; €51.8 million in 2016; €45.3 million in 2017; €64.6 million in 2018; €58.2 million in 2019; €63.2 million in 2020; €55.6 million in 2021; €54.6 million in 2022; and €59.2 million in 2023.
If we could use studies, reports and commitments to stop water coming into houses, we would be well set because the Government has plenty of them. However, we are not seeing the jobs being started to fix the flood defences around the country. When I ask the Minister of State about these flood defences, he can give loads of excuses. The Minister of State is actually fluent in excuses. If excuses were a language, he would be able to teach it to people. The truth of the matter is we need more than excuses in terms of helping people.
I offer one example of a person whose home was inundated in the Storm Babet flood. She did her best to help her neighbours but they realised the deluge was so big that there was no way they would save anything. They got out of their houses with the water up to their chests. Since then, they have been practically living on the second floor of their homes. They cannot get access to the bottom floor because they do not have the money from the State to enable them to do the work there. All the while, they are facing into the prospect of years more of floods in Midleton. These families need to know when the Government is going to fix the flood defences.
There is a substantive question on Midleton on the Order Paper that I will address presently. What the Deputy said about jobs not being started is not true and he should correct the record of the Dáil. Up to five major schemes are expected to commence construction in 2024. Yesterday, I was in my native city of Limerick giving consent to Limerick City and County Council to proceed to tender on the King's Island flood relief scheme, which will protect 528 properties. It is a long-awaited scheme. The scheme for Morrison's Island in Cork city, which has been devastated on many occasions, has gone to tender and will protect more than 410 properties.
In tandem with that, through the local authorities and directly with the Office of Public Works, construction is continuing on projects that are being delivered using a lot of outside workers, including engineers, labourers and craftspeople. In Glashaboy, 103 properties will be protected, the Morell river scheme in County Kildare will protect 30 properties, and 52 properties will be protected under the Whitechurch scheme. Substantial completion of several other schemes will be achieved this year, including 534 properties in Athlone, a town that was inundated with flooding for donkey's years, 109 properties in Templemore and the Springfield flood relief scheme in Cloonlara, County Clare.
One of the major problems the people of Midleton have in terms of the flooding is that when it happened, they had politicians arrive at the location, some of them wearing boots and topcoats, offering tea and sympathy and guaranteeing there would be speedy help. One of the promises was that humanitarian assistance would be given. However, many of those families still cannot obtain humanitarian assistance for the situation they are in. It is an incredible situation. There is confusion over how the humanitarian assistance is to be calculated. When people put in estimates for the work, they are told they will be paid half the amount of the estimate. If they have insurance, that pushes against the humanitarian aid they will receive. People are living with PTSD given the experiences they had during the floods in Midleton. They are crying out for help. The best way the Government can help would be to speed up the humanitarian assistance, give a date for the interim works and give a date for the delivery of the planning application.
As I said, I propose to answer a substantive question on Midleton later. The Deputy raised this issue at the Estimates meeting last week. I asked whether he, as the leader of his party, had any engagement with Cork County Council. I think his answer was "No". If he had such engagement, he would know his assertion here is totally unfair, particularly to the engineering staff of Cork County Council and to my own engineering staff, who are committed to working on a scheme. I know the Deputy is trying to create a narrative that we can somehow magic away the issues that are there in regard to planning permission, design, consent and compulsory purchase orders, CPOs.
I was not talking about the staff.
I did not interrupt the Deputy. He knows and I know that this is a completely false narrative and is grossly unfair to the people working on the project.
Regarding the humanitarian assistance programme, I thank the Ministers, Deputies Coveney and Humphreys, for responding so positively, not only in Midleton but in Louth as well. I presume the Deputy raised this matter five minutes ago with the Minister, Deputy Coveney, who is the Minister dealing with it.
86. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform if he has engaged with the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General on the potential of extending its remit to cover commercial public bodies in a dual audit capacity to ensure greater oversight and accountability; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5766/24]
Has the Minister engaged with the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General on the potential of the State auditor to cover semi-State bodies that receive public money but engage in commercial activity? I refer to a dual audit capacity. The public would be surprised that the Government does not require this already. Will the Minister consider changing the State auditor's remit to ensure greater oversight of and accountability for public money?
Many State bodies classified by the Central Statistics Office, CSO, as commercial are already solely audited by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. While section 1438 of the Companies Act 2014 provides that companies not trading for the gain of their members may be audited by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General, only regulated private sector audit firms can act as statutory auditors for companies, including public companies, that have been set up for commercial gain under the Companies Act.
Commercial State companies established for commercial gain are generally held at arm’s length by central government for a number of reasons. These companies are usually expected to make profits that generate dividend payments that are utilised to fund public services. It is, therefore, an important principle that commercial State companies should be treated the same as their private sector competitors in order that they are not put at a competitive disadvantage. Every commercial State body is expected to meet the highest standards of corporate governance and to follow the requirements set out in the code of practice for the governance of State bodies.
As the Deputy knows, it is the responsibility of each Minister and his or her Department to manage each of the Minister's shareholdings in each State enterprise. Ministers are supported in managing the shareholdings of many these enterprises by the New Economy and Recovery Authority, NewERA, through its provision of expert advice. There are a small number of State enterprises where there is a dual audit arrangement between the private sector statutory auditor and the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General.
The further extension of such arrangements would need to be considered on a case-by-case basis by each Minister with policy responsibility for a particular enterprise. That would need to take into account the specific circumstances and commercial responsibilities and environment of the commercial body. If such a review happened, I would then engage with the Comptroller and Auditor General with regard to making the necessary legal and administrative provisions.
I really think it is time the Government looked at this collectively rather than waiting for individual Ministers. The Minister gave the usual reason of commercial operations and private auditors, but there seems to be an inconsistent approach to when public oversight is used. Just across the road, more than 50% of Trinity College's revenue is not from the State, yet every year the books are analysed with full transparency by the State auditor. Why is it the same standard and expectations are not extended to all organisations? Companies that are almost 100% owned by the State, such as ESB and Bord na Móna, cannot be audited by the State. Iarnród Éireann does not compete in a private market and yet avoids State audit. If an organisation, commercial or not, is in receipt of large sums of public money, the Comptroller and Auditor General should be able to inspect it for audit. This issue has been raised for more than 30 years now and still has not been resolved. It is a ridiculous situation. Will the Minister review the issue in light of recent scandals and will he bring real public oversight to public money and State investment?
I do not have any such plans. For such a change to be made, there would need to be clear evidence to underpin a very broad change in how we audit a very broad and significant part of the State. As I said in my answer to the Deputy, there are many organisations that are operating in the commercial environment. It is therefore appropriate, as they are operating in the commercial environment, that they are audited in a way that is equivalent to how their peers are audited. What is it in the operation of ESB, for example, that makes the Deputy think it should be subject to audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General? Does she have any evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance, or is it just a general suspicion she has of excellent organisations that do great work on behalf of our State?
I referenced those organisations to highlight the inconsistency of approach. The outrageous scandal in RTÉ brought this to the public's attention. How do we know there are not any other RTÉs? A small commercial operation is used to hide from public accountability. The current system, whereby oversight is conducted by the board of RTÉ by commissioning the audit of accounts, is clearly unsatisfactory. Too many private auditors are not revealing layers of dysfunction and lack of proper governance. They are hired directly by the organisation they are supposed to audit. It is an endemic problem in the private sector. Have we learned nothing from Anglo Irish Bank, Carillion and others, who received a clean bill of health from auditors? It is the public, at the end of the day, that ends up paying the price for this. This Government has the power to legislate so that the State auditor can act either annually or as the office deems necessary. This could be done easily by amending the Broadcasting Act of 2009.
When the Deputy referenced layers to dysfunction, what organisations was she referring to?
Anglo Irish Bank and Carillion.
We are all well aware of the scandals and the huge difficulty Anglo Irish Bank created. Anglo Irish Bank was a commercial organisation for nearly all of its existence. This is indicative of the general tone of suspicion Sinn Féin has in respect of very important State bodies that do excellent work on our behalf. On the one hand, the Deputy talks about the need for the State to be expanded and the need for the State to do more. On the other hand, she is then coming forward and saying, on the basis of some claims and suspicions she is not outlining in her argument to me, that we should radically overhaul how very valuable State organisations are audited. She referred to a simple change being made in legislation. The consequences of that for organisations like Bord na Móna, ESB and Dublin Bus would be anything but simple. If there are issues of wrongdoing and issues where corporate governance is not meeting the requirements it has, the Government will act. We have an abundance of reports into what happened in RTÉ. I think the Deputy should lay out why it is that she has a general suspicion of our commercial semi-State sector.
87. Deputy Thomas Pringle asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform the progress made in delivering National Development Plan 2021-2030 projects for County Donegal for each year of the lifetime of the current Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5771/24]
This question relates to the delivery of the National Development Plan 2021-2030, particularly projects in County Donegal. What projects are there, how is the delivery is going and how will it be achieved?
As Minister for public expenditure, I am responsible for setting the overall capital allocations across Departments and for monitoring monthly expenditure at departmental level. The responsibility for the management and delivery of individual investment projects, within the allocations agreed under the national development plan, rests with the individual sponsoring Department in each case. Expenditure is allocated and monitored on a departmental basis and not a geographical basis. The Deputy is aware of the overall €165 billion funding we are allocating over the lifetime of the plan. In 2024, more than €13 billion will be provided. We aim to maximise transparency regarding how that money is spent through a public capital investment tracker, through a map that allows us to see projects that are being delivered, and through regular updates of both. We have also published regional reports on Project Ireland 2040 and the three regional assembly areas. We did that for all of the years between 2018 and 2020.
I will highlight a few of the projects that are under way in Donegal, given the fact the Deputy mentioned it. He will be aware of what they are anyway, but still. They include the ocean innovation centre Ireland project; the N56 Dungloe to Glenties road project; the number of residential care facilities that are being completed, upgraded or built, including the Letterkenny community nursing unit and St. Joseph's in Stranorlar; social housing projects in Convent Road, Carndonagh, and other projects delivering in excess of 100,000 units in 2023; the Killybegs town regeneration project; important educational projects; and around 200 km of greenways which will be delivered by 2031, including the Inishowen to Buncrana greenway, which I hope will be a great amenity for the communities it will support.
All those projects are welcome and badly wanted. In the update report on Project Ireland 2040 annual report in 2022, Donegal did not receive a mention in terms of progress and how things are going. I think that is worrying in terms of the delivery of these projects. In the 2022 regional report, there were only three mentions of Donegal projects in total. On the projects that are referenced in the report, there are the projects the Minister has mentioned. There is also the Donegal group B sewerage scheme and wastewater treatment plant project, which was actually completed in 2018 but was included in the development report for the 2040 capital programme. There are other projects, including the project following the hospital flooding in Letterkenny, which actually happened in 2013. These projects are included there as well. It is a worrying development. While these projects need to be developed, we need to make sure the projects included in the report are relevant to the time, in operation at the time and not actually completed.
Now that the assembly is up and running again in the North, will the A5 project be developed? How will it be moved on?
I take on board that point the Deputy has made there. Given the number of projects that are under way in Donegal, it does appear the county should get a bit more reference in the publication to which the Deputy has referred. As he knows, the minute you start naming one county, it poses difficulties for other counties that are not mentioned. It is very difficult to please everybody all the time in the drafting of reports. I imagine that is the reason care is taken in referencing individual counties.
I hope the answer I have given to the Deputy is evidence of the number of projects that are under way that are being funded by the national development plan in the various communities he represents. The Government continues to remain committed to the development of the A5 project. I know that, in very general terms, the Government will shortly be considering proposals we can make that will support the really positive news regarding the reconstitution of the Good Friday institutions. We will look at how we can continue to support the development of an all-island economy to the particular benefit of the communities the Deputy just referenced. I expect there will be further progress on that soon.
I thank the Minister for the response. He referred to the Dungloe to Glenties section of the N56. There is also an important section from Mountcharles to Killybegs. It is important for the port of Killybegs, for renewable energy and for future developments there. That section would be important. It is not actually included in the plan at the moment. When will a review take place in order that projects could be added, if possible?
I am familiar with the Dungloe to Glenties road and can really imagine the benefit that will be brought to commuters and communities when that project is delivered. I will have to follow up with the Minister, Deputy Ryan, about the further extension that Deputy Pringle has referred to. I know the benefit that a change like that would bring to Killybegs and can see how it would be consistent with the further development of the port. I should emphasise that decisions relating to the funding of individual projects are a matter for individual Ministers. I will follow up with the Minister, Deputy Ryan, and see if I can share any information with Deputy Pringle on that.
88. Deputy Carol Nolan asked the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform if he will provide an update on the River Shannon Management Agency Bill 2020; if any preliminary assessments have been made as how the agency will be funded; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5919/24]
Will the Minister provide an update on the River Shannon Management Agency Bill 2020? Have assessments been undertaken to outline how the agency will be funded? In early December last year, the Minister confirmed to me that he aimed to bring forward a final proposal dealing with the issues relating to the River Shannon Management Agency Bill 2020 early in the new year. I would appreciate an update on this matter and on the issues related to how the agency is funded. The Minister will be aware that the Bill has been on the priority list of legislation for years now. Landowners, farmers and property owners are concerned.
I thank Deputy Nolan. I know she has a strong interest in this and she has raised it on a number of occasions with me.
In 2016, the Government established the Shannon flood risk State agency co-ordination working group to improve co-ordination on flood risk management between all State agencies involved with the river. The group, which is chaired by the Office of Public Works, provides a forum where all the organisations with roles and responsibilities that involve the River Shannon catchment can further monitor and co-ordinate their respective work.
The OPW, in partnership with local authorities, is progressing a programme of flood relief schemes to address flood risk on the river. There are currently 13 schemes in the Shannon river basin and these schemes are already providing protection to more than 2,600 properties. A further 36 flood schemes will be delivered in the Shannon catchment as part of the Government's investment through the catchment flood risk assessment management, CFRAM, which I referenced earlier. Some 24 of these are currently being progressed, including Athlone.
Outside of the major flood relief schemes, local flooding issues are being addressed by local authorities with support from the Office of Public Works under the minor flood mitigation works and coastal protection scheme. This scheme provides funding for minor mitigation works, costing less than €750,000. To date, the OPW has provided over €40 million to some 700 projects on the Shannon. To add to the overall flood protection from flood relief schemes, the Shannon flood risk State agency co-ordination working group produces an annual work programme that demonstrates the extensive work and co-ordination by the State bodies.
The preparation of legislation to improve the management of flood risk on the River Shannon is a Government priority. The River Shannon Management Agency Bill is on the priority legislation list for drafting for spring of this year. The main purpose of the Bill is to provide flood risk management for the Shannon catchment. The legislation aims to delineate responsibilities and functions for flood risk in the catchment and to improve the identification, co-ordination, monitoring and communication of flood risk management actions and activities along the River Shannon.
The management of flood risk on the river is closely intertwined with other uses of the river, such as navigation, dam safety and electricity generation. The Office of Public Works has conducted an analysis of existing legislation regarding the management of the River Shannon, including a review of the powers of various bodies involved with the river. No assessments of how an agency would be funded have been carried out yet. Given the powers and functions of the various bodies, the preparation of legislation is complicated. The OPW, in line with Government direction, is prioritising the work. Subject to completion of the requisite consultation and advice from the Office of the Attorney General, it is anticipated that the text of the Bill will be brought to the Cabinet in April.
I certainly welcome the fact that this legislation will be brought forward. It is good news that it is on track. I hope it will not be put back again. I hope we can deliver on bringing that forward. I have concerns in respect of the fact that the Minister of State mentioned that no assessment was done about funding the agency. I know the Minister of State mentioned there was a review of the bodies and agencies that are involved in the Shannon. The last time I raised this matter, I also sought information on the efforts of the OPW to engage directly with Waterways Ireland or the ESB with regard to the mitigation measures, which I think are vital to address the flooding on the Shannon Callows, which is an issue of huge concern to people. I know at that time, the Minister of State confirmed that a tender was to be issued shortly for an ecological consultant to carry out a high-level environmental study. Has that tender been issued? I know that my constituents are looking for information and updates on that.
I acknowledge the constructive way in which Deputy Nolan has approached this. We spend an awful lot of time on the matter of the Shannon in the Department. The United States Army Corps of Engineers could not find a solution to this. The de Valera Government in the 1940s was bedevilled with it. Everybody else has looked at it as well. This will not be fixed easily. A number of agencies have responsibility. The Shannon is an important tourist asset and navigation asset. We derive much electricity from it. It has a fish element. The Shannon only drops 15 m in 200 km. From its source in County Cavan to where it enters the sea in my own county, it only drops 49 m. It is a slow-moving river with many complicated elements around it, not only legislative and regulatory elements, but the actual topography of the river itself. It lends itself dramatically to the flooding that the Deputy refers to, particularly in the summer in the Shannon Callows, and that causes difficulty for farmers. We are acutely aware of that. That is why I have prioritised it within the Department and why I hope to be in a position to bring a report to the Government as quickly as possible. As I said earlier, that will be in April.
I thank the Minister of State for his response and indeed his commitment to help to resolve this matter, which has been ongoing for some time. I recognise and acknowledge that. I recognise that it is complex and that much is involved. The ecological consultant is carrying out a high-level environmental study. I am wondering about the tender. I know the Minister of State said he is bringing forward the Bill, which is great. Regarding this particular question, has the legal tender been issued? Where is that at the moment? As I understand it, the study will consider the possible impacts of the excavation of material at key locations in the River Shannon channel, and the longer-term maintenance of the riverbed and changes in water levels. I believe this will be a positive step forward. The farming organisations and indeed the people who live along the Shannon Callows have been raising the matter for some time now. It is important that we all work collaboratively, that we get solutions and that we can do some work on it at the pinch points, to try to alleviate the devastation of the flooding.
Waterways Ireland, as I said the last time, is the lead agency on this. That complicates it as well. Waterways Ireland is a cross-Border body. We are delighted that the Northern institutions are established. We analysed the powers that the agencies have. Some of them are derived from agreements that are enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. It is not simply about creating a HSE for the Shannon and having the water go away. That is overly simplistic. Deputy Nolan knows from living in that area what the farmers, the boat people, the fishermen and the ESB are telling her. The ESB has a role. It conducts measurements of the river every day. Waterways Ireland has a role regarding the minimum level of water that needs to be in the river for navigation purposes. We did not have a problem this year with navigation because it was the wettest July on record and it will probably continue. We need an honest conversation around the very point that the Deputy has raised, which is about the sustainability of how we make our communities interact with that river, given that it moves so slowly and covers such an expanse when it floods.
