Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 29 May 2024

Vol. 1055 No. 1

EU Directive: Motion

Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Deputy James Browne)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the exercise by the State of the option or discretion under Protocol No. 21 on the position of the United Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, to take part in the adoption and application of the following proposed measure:

Proposal for a Directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on combating the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of children and child sexual abuse material and replacing Council Framework Decision 2004/68/JHA (recast),

a copy of which was laid before Dáil Éireann on 28th February, 2024.

Yesterday, the Government approved the request of the Minister for Justice, Deputy Helen McEntee, to seek the approval of the Dáil and the Seanad to opt in to the EU Commission proposal. The proposal seeks to amend the 2011 directive on combating child pornography and the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of children.

This is a directive we opted into and have transposed. All sides of this House are aware of the gravity of the subject of this new directive and child sexual abuse is among the most heinous of crimes. We in Ireland know well the damage such abuse can do and the people whose lives were ruined by acts perpetrated on them when they were at their most vulnerable, often by the people they most trusted. We already have comprehensive laws to deal with child sexual abuse, particularly as set out in the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act 1998 and the sexual offences Act of 2017. The latter Act, in particular, gave effect to many of the stipulations of the previous EU directive on this matter, which is amended by this new proposal. However, as in so many other facets of life, our legal framework must be re-examined and updated to take account of the changes wrought by technological developments and the changed digital world in which we now live. In the case of this directive, that means targeted new provisions aimed at criminalising the live-streaming of child sexual abuse and clamping down on online enterprises that enable or encourage such abuse, including those that operate on the dark web. It also means ensuring our legislation is adequate to encompass child sexual abuse material that is generated by artificial intelligence.

I will speak about some of the provisions of this new proposal in more detail. First, there is the matter of terminology. Deputies will note I have been referring to "child sexual abuse material" rather than "child pornography". The latter term is outdated and minimises the extent and gravity of the criminality that characterises such material. This matter is, in fact, the subject of a current Private Member’s Bill in the Seanad, and is addressed in this new European proposal, which updates all such references to the more modern term "child sexual abuse material" or CSAM.

The Government welcomes the provision in the new directive which seeks to ensure the criminalisation of live-streaming of child sexual abuse by criminalising financial promises or transactions linked to other relevant offences. Deputies may be aware of the recent comprehensive report entitled Online Sexual Abuse and Exploitation of Children in the Philippines, which was published by a consortium of organisations led by a principal investigator from Dublin City University. The report sets out the extent to which the live-streaming of child sexual abuse can become normalised as a source of income in deprived Filipino communities. This shocking phenomenon is, of course, driven by the people here in the West; I should really say the men, because it is usually men who order up this abuse and pay for it. We know the facilitators of abuse who are imprisoned in the Philippines are often subject to lengthy prison sentences. We need to treat the perpetrators at the other end of the video call in a similar fashion and we will explore how to ensure that in the course of the negotiations.

In respect of dealing with AI-generated child sexual abuse material, Irish legislation is already framed in such a way that no distinction is made between this and other child sexual abuse material, and that is important. AI-generated material does not represent a harmless alternative to so-called "real" child sexual abuse material. AI-generated CSAM still represents the sexualisation of children. Offenders who look at such material are still more likely to go on and abuse children, just as with other CSAM. All child sexual abuse material, regardless of origin, re-victimises those who have been abused and, of course, from a law enforcement perspective, AI-generated CSAM wastes valuable police time. Every actionable report of online child sexual abuse received by An Garda Síochána needs to be examined with a view to identifying the children depicted therein. Countless children have been rescued from abusive situations thanks to such reports.

The maximum penalties for various offences are strengthened in this legislation. A definition of "peers" is set out, for those who are close in age and degree of psychological and physical development or maturity. The importance of hotlines, such as hotline.ie here in Ireland, which receives reports from the public of CSAM, is recognised through special dispensation to examine and process CSAM within the law. Changes to Article 6 ensure that all forms of grooming, including solicitation aimed at committing child sexual abuse and exploitation offences in an online context, are criminalised in all member states. An amendment to Article 15 seeks to clarify the situations in which member states are entitled not to prosecute or impose penalties on child victims of sexual abuse and sexual exploitation for their involvement in criminal activities which they have been compelled to commit, including distribution, offering, supplying or making available child sexual abuse material. Article 16 seeks to ensure that statutes of limitations of member states cannot start running before the victim has reached the age of majority and to set out minimum statutes of limitations to effectively allow the victim to seek justice. Other changes under this article require member states to ensure that persons, units or services investigating and prosecuting the relevant offences have sufficient staff, expertise and effective investigative tools, including the possibility of using special investigative tools. Article 23 strengthens the position of victims and survivors of child sexual abuse by reinforcing their right to claim compensation for any damage suffered in connection with child sexual abuse and exploitation offences, including damages caused by the online dissemination of material concerning the abuse. Articles 24 and 25 set out new obligations in relation to national co-ordination and data-collection.

Ireland already has a strong reputation at European Union level for the priority we attach to having in place robust, victim-centred legislation. This has been buttressed by the prominent role we have played in the separate negotiations on the EU child sexual abuse regulation, an Internal Market instrument setting out obligations on online service providers to act against the misuse of their platforms for the purposes of abuse. This directive is a fitting criminal law counterpart to that proposal, strengthening the criminal offences that constitute child sexual abuse and ensuring they are fit for purpose in the digital age. We know EU proposals can be subject to sometimes lengthy negotiations. It is important that Ireland play its part in those, to ensure the legislation that is ultimately adopted is as strong and as effective as it possibly can be. I am sure the House will support Ireland’s participation in that process, as well as in this important European legislation, and I commend the motion to the House.

Deputy Pauline Tully

This is a welcome debate as it involves a subject on which we are all united, namely, the need to combat abuse and protect the most vulnerable in our society. The measures within the directive seem worthy and positive according to the briefing note we have received and I wish to comment on some of the proposals in order.

First, the move away from using the term "child pornography" to "child sexual abuse material", as well as an amendment in that definition to cover the generation of synthetically created material, is incredibly important. The former term is associated with a degree of glamour or even titillation, which is absolutely inappropriate. It should be noted the coverage of these issues by media and their treatment by other stakeholders has improved but we must always be vigilant in this regard. Every piece of material depicts a crime and constitutes an abuse in and of itself, which includes those generated by AI. Anything that can be done to always remind people of that is welcome.

The increasing of the levels of penalties for engaging with sexual activities with a child in respect of child prostitution is critical as a deterrent must be there. There must be a significant level of co-operation across member states and with third party countries given the fact that many criminals travel themselves or traffic children for these vile ends. A degree of extraterritoriality in the prosecution of people who travel and commit crimes needs to be considered as part of all laws within these areas. Similarly, the harmonisation of the offences of solicitation or grooming and online live-streaming across all member states captures the transnational nature of abuse. Whether acting alone or in concert with others, criminals will exploit whatever measures they can, and the tech platforms in particular must be faced with uniform and universal demand across member states. That all member states criminalise and provide for an effective investigation and prosecution of the events of live-streaming child sexual abuse is essential.

It is close to impossible to commit many of these heinous crimes without an online infrastructure whether it be encrypted apps or other means. The dark web, also a haven for drug dealing and terrorism, clearly plays a huge role. Again, international co-operation is crucial. I wish to raise one such case from 2021, which saw four people arrested in a multiagency operation sparked by a German investigation into one of Europe's most prolific child sexual abuse platforms on the dark web. All four were German nationals and were responsible for running the platform. The operation was as a result of an international task force set up by the German federal criminal police, which included Europol and law enforcement agencies from the Netherlands, Sweden, Australia, Canada and the US. The site focused on the sexual abuse of children and had 400,000 registered users when it was taken down. To quote Europol itself:

The case illustrates what Europol is seeing in child sexual abuse offending: online child offender communities on the dark web exhibit considerable resilience in response to law enforcement actions targeting them. Their reactions include resurrecting old communities, establishing new communities, and making strong efforts to organise and administer them.

This is a clear and clarion call to us as legislators.

We must support this international co-operation between agencies in tackling these matters.

The victim provisions in the directive are a positive. Compensation, support and expertise must be given where people have been traumatised. These crimes leave lifelong scars. Individuals should be supported fully in attempting to rebuild their lives. Parental figures can be involved in the abuse, meaning State supports are more critical than ever. I sometimes meet people who suffered abuse as children and have gone through a life of self-loathing and blame. They need strong support to overcome that and rebuild their lives. Often, people block out this terrible crime that happened to them; for it to resurrect itself can have damaging effects. They need definite support. We also need more social workers to deal with families and give support to individuals who have been abused.

A requirement that member states ensure persons, units or services investigating and prosecuting the relevant offence have sufficient staff, expertise and effective investigative tools, including the possibility to conduct undercover investigations on the dark web, is important. I ask the Minister of State in this specific context if he is confident the Garda and other agencies have these tools. In the context of the ongoing debate on facial recognition technology, I understand the search of child abuse material by automated rather than manual means is part of why the Garda is requesting legislation on this matter. My colleagues, Deputies Daly and Cronin, received a briefing on this technology. Can the Minister of State share with the House what is happening in this regard? In summary, we support this directive and ask that further updates on its implementation be scheduled at a later date.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

I will start with a technical matter I raised previously. I have been critical of the Department of Justice in its treatment of this House regarding the transposition or adoption of EU directives. This is a really important matter. Standing Orders require motions to reach the Clerk of the Dáil at least four working days before they are scheduled to be taken. The Business Committee was able to publish the agenda for this week last week saying that this was to be taken but it was only yesterday that the motion was added to the Dáil business site at 2.25 p.m., a mere 24 hours or so ago. That does not underscore the importance of a proper debate in this House. As long as we put up with that, it will continue.

As has been made clear by the Minister of State, this is a proposal to opt in to a reform and update of the directive we agreed to and legislated for. The new recast directive demonstrates the importance of continued review and update of EU laws, particularly in this area, to take account of changes in technology, which are constant and ongoing. The first phase of work was done by the Council of Europe in 2007. It adopted a comprehensive Convention on the Protection of Children Against Sexual Exploitation and Sexual Abuse. The convention criminalised a wide array of practices constituting sexual abuse against children. States were required to criminalise such practices and to take measures to prevent sexual violence, protect child victims and prosecute perpetrators. That convention was also ratified by all 46 Council of Europe member states and two non-member states. As regards the European Union, the original directive dates from 2011 and was largely given legislative effect here in the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017. In September 2021, the Commission launched its initiative to assess the implementation of that directive with a view to revising it.

According to the European Parliamentary Research Service, as a consequence of new technologies and the Covid pandemic, criminal reports of child sexual abuse have never been so numerous. It is a shocking fact. It estimates that one in five children is a victim of some form of sexual violence in Europe. That amounts to 16 million children. Both governments and NGOs have acknowledged a dramatic increase in online child sexual abuse materials. For example, between January and August 2023, the Internet Watch Foundation identified 101,988 web pages containing such material hosted on several servers in the EU, a 26% increase compared with 2022. Of those pages, 21,651 depicted the most extreme forms of child sexual abuse, including rape, bestiality, sadism and sexual torture; these are shocking facts. It seems from the Commission's viewpoint that there has been a delay by member states in transposing the 2011 directive and that it has been transposed unevenly, with different rules still applying in different member states. Some of this may be inevitable and may relate to matters that do not fall within the EU's competence, for example, the age of consent varies in the EU from 14 to 18. According to the helpful summary provided by the European Parliamentary Research Service, what was more worrisome than transposition weaknesses was the dramatic increase in online child sexual abuse. This becomes the major problem and is not a consequence of member states' failure to transpose the directive properly. This phenomenon is the main driver of the revision as it calls for certain clarifications.

The issues include investigations and prosecutions of offenders, the increased possibilities for perpetrators to hide their identities, the increased presence of children on the Internet, shortcomings in assessing victims and the impact of new technology in the proliferation of child sexual abuse material. I welcome the general objectives of combating and reducing child sexual abuse in all its forms. I welcome in particular the specific objectives of ensuring effective assistance to and support of child victims. We have very little time in this debate. I hope we will have fuller debate on a matter that really is of importance and substance. This may not be the final version of the directive but I have no difficulty agreeing that a balancing exercise along those lines is clearly necessary and not at all unusual. I and my party strongly support this motion.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. The briefing document was very useful. The opt-in to this directive should, of course, proceed. Many aspects have been either clarified, updated or better defined. It also reinforces a victim's right to pursue avenues of compensation. This recasting of the directive tightens up many strands in the context of the detection, reporting and investigation of CSAM. Crucially, it endeavours to keep pace with advances in technology, particularly in the area of AI-generated materials, some of which are extraordinarily realistic, to such a degree they are making headlines, for example, the Met Gala deepfakes of well-known celebrity personalities. It is a clear illustration of how far somebody can take the production of digitally-engineered imagery. AI has a lot of significant benefits but also has threats. It is important that we stay ahead of those threats. We are addressing it in legislation but there are certain aspects I wish the Minister of State to address in his concluding remarks. I note a paragraph in the briefing document provided to us that outlined some statistical data from the US from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the body that receives reports of suspected CSAM from service providers. It stated that more than 10,000 cases were referred to An Garda Síochána in respect of material relating to Ireland. Gardaí were able to identify 115 victims of exploitation based on the reports. I must query the resourcing required for this. Of course, it is welcome that perpetrators and victims are being identified but what about those who are not identified because the Garda simply does not have the resources to get through those reports? Will the Minister of State comment on backlogs and how they are to be handled? The briefing indicates that reports are increasing year on year, unfortunately.

The CSAM directive has seen various iterations. An aspect that prevails is concern by civil liberty groups, some academics and the European Parliamentary Research Service. While all acknowledge the fundamental ambition is to protect children, the CSA regulation "... could become the basis for de facto generalized and indiscriminate scanning of the content of virtually all types of electronic communications" of all users in the EU and EEA.

On this point I briefly mention commentary from the ICCL, which queried An Garda Síochána on what it does with IP addresses and identifying information pertaining to NCMEC referrals after false positive content was identified. It confirmed that the following data relating to all referrals is retained, such as suspect emails, screen name and IP addresses. There may be no legal basis to retain data in the first place as it may not be proportionate to do so. Cases that are clearly not child abuse material are, for example, referrals involving images of children playing on a beach. Will the Minister of State clarify whether he, his Department or An Garda Síochána have sought and received legal advice on that matter? This directive is well intentioned, and I absolutely support it. However, there could be serious consequences for people caught up in a false positive report and we have to make sure that is dealt with in a way that reduces the risks to people in that context.

Deputy Peter Fitzpatrick

Child sexual abuse is a heinous crime that has evolved significantly over the past years. One in five children suffers from some form of sexual violence, offline and online. Both increased online presence of children and technological developments create new possibilities for abuse and raises challenges for law enforcement to investigate this extremely serious and widespread crime. The Internet, for example, has greatly worsened the spread of child sexual abuse, allowing predators to meet online and instantaneously share videos and pictures of severe sexual violence against children. Given the alarming prevalence of child sexual exploitation and abuse material, swift and comprehensive action is imperative. The purpose of the new directive is to prevent crimes associated with child sexual abuse and exploitation as well as to protect the victims. A strong criminal law is therefore essential and with this directive we are taking a step in the right direction to ensure we have effective legal tools to protect children and bring predators to justice. The revised rules within this directive justly expand the definitions of offences and introduce higher penalties and more specific requirements for prevention and assistance to victims.

Until now, online providers have been relatively free to combat sexual child abuse as they chose, and the consequences have been shown to be devastating. The threat of abuse is real and has increased throughout the EU. There were 1.5 million reports of child sexual abuse in the EU in 2022. In 2023, the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which receives reports of suspected child sexual abuse material from US-based online service providers, referred more than 10,000 reports to An Garda Síochána in respect of material relating to Ireland. This represents a 17% increase on the number of referrals in 2022. The Internet Watch Foundation reports a 360% rise in self-generated sexual imagery among those between seven and ten-years-old from 2020 to 2022 as a result of grooming. Online providers will be required to detect, report, and remove online child sexual abuse material on their services, and providers of games, pornographic platforms and services directly targeting kids will have to make their services safe by design. This agreement is a major step forward in making the Internet a safer place for children while upholding fundamental rights. The new directive includes in the definition of "child pornography" the use of realistic images of imaginary children. Often used as a loophole within disrupting criminal networks, this means it would be unnecessary to prove there is an actual child behind every image, which welcomingly makes the efforts of law enforcement agencies easier. Moreover, the criminalisation of grooming is vital for law enforcement agencies to be able to intervene to prevent an adult and a child from meeting instead of waiting until the actual abuse has occurred. These children are victims. Childhood abuse affects every aspect of a child’s life from how they think, their sense of safety, their sense of worth and their coping. We need to protect and assist victims in every way we can in the hope that legislation in Europe is capable of efficiently protecting children in the digital world and guaranteeing they can exercise all the rights envisaged for them in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The most important issue is the protection of our children and therefore I support this motion. In comparison with when I was a child 50 years ago, children are far more advanced than us. They are more curious, and I maintain they are more intelligent than us. We can look at simple things like the Internet and mobile phones. I do not know how many times in the past number of years I had to go to my grandkids to ask them to update my phone or my computer. They are so advanced. However, the bottom line is that they are children and need protection. They are smarter than us but there are a lot of evil people out there at the moment. I welcome this motion. A good job has been done on it, and I wish the Minister of State the best with it.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Seán Canney)

I call on Deputy Pringle from the Independent Group.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I was called in the nick of time.

I thank the Chair for the opportunity to speak on this directive on combating the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of children and CSAM. The directive addresses a number of important issues such as investigations and prosecutions of offenders, the increased possibilities for perpetrators to hide their identity, the increased presence of children on the Internet, shortcomings in assisting victims and the potential impact of new technology on the proliferation of child sexual abuse material. This is timely given that shocking new research has shown that more than 300 million children per year are victims of online sexual abuse and exploitation. Researchers at the University of Edinburgh found that one in eight, or 12.6%, of the world's children have been victims of non-consensual taking, sharing and exposure to sexual images and video in the past year. Some 12.5% of children globally are estimated to have been subject to online solicitation in the past year, such as unwanted sexual talk, including sexual acts and requests. This is extremely concerning and is clearly a global issue that requires a global response. The increased figures seen across the globe also reflect growing trends in Ireland.

In 2023, the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which receives reports of suspected CSAM, referred more than 10,000 such reports to An Garda Síochána in respect of material relating to Ireland. This represented a 17% increase on the number of referrals in 2022 and the rate of referrals has only continued to increase this year. Last year, An Garda Síochána identified 115 victims of child sexual abuse or exploitation in Ireland based on such reports, an increase on the 51 children identified in 2022. This is extremely worrying and shows that this issue has been growing exponentially and will continue to grow if we do not take drastic action.

I welcome that this directive seeks to change the level of penalties for those engaging in sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of children and criminalises in all member states solicitation, the live streaming of child sexual abuse and the running of an online infrastructure enabling or encouraging child sexual abuse or exploitation. I also welcome the focus on victims in this directive, particularly the requirement for member states to ensure that victims and survivors of child sexual abuse have access to assistance and support and a right to compensation for any damage suffered. I am also glad to see the change in terminology from child pornography to child sexual abuse material. This material is not pornographic. It is abuse and exploitation. In 2016 ECPAT, a global organisation that works to end the sexual exploitation of children, created an international working group, which consisted of 18 organisations and expert bodies, with an aim to produce a cohesive approach to tackling how global laws and policies referred to child abuse. The result of this was the Luxembourg Guidelines, a report that offered nations a comprehensive overview and breakdown of the impact language and terminology can have in further assisting and supporting victims of child abuse and exploitation. In recognising the role of communication and the power of language we, as policymakers, have a responsibility to ensure that we are using best practice terminology. The term "child pornography" is not only not best practice terminology, it is also outdated, extremely harmful and factually incorrect. Pornography implies consent and ignores the nature of child exploitation. It is important that we implement appropriate language that conveys the truth and actuality of the action and crime.

The use of appropriate language contributes to a positive cultural shift. Although I strongly welcome this language change, I am interested in how this will affect the terminology used in Irish legislation. Senator Flynn introduced a Bill to the Seanad two years ago that sought to do this very thing, that is, to change the outdated language in Irish legislation. She sought to change the term "child pornography" in Irish legislation to "child sexual exploitation material". During that debate two years ago, the Minister of State said, “Appealing as it may be to propose the straightforward replacement of the offending words with more appropriate terms, it is unfortunately not so simple." He went on to state:

[T]he act of changing the words does alter the offence. In altering the offence, a risk is created regarding prosecutions that are already under way and to future prosecutions that may be brought for offences committed before the change in wording.

Will the Minister of State clarify, then, whether this directive will impact on future and past terminology in legislation and, if so, whether that will alter the offence as he suggested it would in response to Senator Flynn in the Seanad? That is very important for how this legislation will work and have an impact, because it will also have to influence all backdated legislation, at least according to what the Minister of State said in the Seanad. I am wondering, therefore, what will happen with this in future in the context of our legislative process.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Deputy James Browne)

I thank the Deputies for their contribution and support for our participation in this new instrument. To respond to Deputy Tully, it is the case, as she said, that new technologies are vital to the detection and investigation of child sexual abuse. An Garda Síochána favours employing specialist software, including software that enables victims to be identified through facial recognition, and this supports the importance of enacting the facial recognition technology legislation as a priority.

I thank Deputy Howlin for his support for the legislation and take his point about bringing this type of motion before the House in a timely fashion, recognising what he said about the need for a period of four working days. It should be done within that time and it is important for us all to be remain vigilant of our rights as Deputies within this Parliament. I certainly take the Deputy's point and will raise it internally, but we should all be vigilant of this. Moreover, I welcome his support over the course of his career in the Dáil. He has a strong legacy in this area, which I absolutely acknowledge.

To respond to Deputy Murphy, a significant proportion of the reports received will, following examination, not be actionable but she is correct to say the increasing number of reports increases the demands on An Garda Síochána, and we will have to be more cognisant of increasing funding and resources. We have provided record funding to An Garda Síochána but, as it becomes more specialised and as criminals become more specialised, we have to continue to increase that funding.

Deputy Murphy also mentioned the privacy concerns that have been expressed in the context of the EU sexual abuse regulation. Ireland strongly supports that regulation, whose provisions include the establishment of an EU centre that will receive and verify reports of CSEM, ensuring no false positives are referred to An Garda Síochána. All organisations must do their best to ensure the potential for any such case will be minimised, because I have no doubt it is absolutely devastating when a false case such as that arises.

Just this week, Edinburgh University published a global study setting out the scale of online child sexual abuse. It reveals that more than 12% of the world's children have been victims of non-consensual talking, sharing or exposure to sexual images or video in the past year. A similar percentage are estimated to have been subject to some form of online solicitation, such as sextortion. This is the phenomenon whereby children, usually teenage boys, are deceived into sharing intimate images and then threatened or blackmailed into providing additional sexual content, sexual activity or money. According to the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, incidences of this type of crime have increased dramatically in recent years, including a 7,200% increase in 2022 alone. Unfortunately, these global trends are also reflected in Ireland. The US national centre receives reports of online child sexual exploitation and abuse from US-owned companies and forwards them to law enforcement agencies throughout the world. In 2023, as Deputy Murphy pointed out, it referred more than 10,000 such reports to An Garda Síochána in respect of material relating to Ireland, and this represented a 17% increase on the number of referrals in 2022. Similarly, hotline.ie, the national reporting body for illegal online content, has seen year-on-year increases in the number of reports it receives, more than 90% of which relate to suspected CSEM.

All of this serves to demonstrate the need to continue to act against child sexual abuse and in support of its victims, including through participation in this new EU measure. Ireland ratified the Council of Europe’s Convention on the Protection of Children Against Sexual Exploitation and Sexual Abuse, also known as the Lanzarote Convention, in 2021 and we have been an active participant in the work carried out under that convention. Ireland has commenced the roll-out of the Barnahus model, achieving better outcomes for children who have been abused by bringing essential services under one roof and offering them co-ordinated supports. Ireland will seek to play an active part in the negotiations on this new directive, and I have mentioned the importance of ensuring people who pay for the livestreaming of child sexual abuse should be punished in a way that reflects their role as a participant in this abuse, rather than as a spectator.

It is important we continue to play a full part in European discussions on these matters and to participate to the fullest extent possible in measures proposed by the European Commission in the justice and home affairs area. The Office of the Attorney General has confirmed there are no legal or constitutional impediments to our participation in this measure, and I hope I have outlined some of the reasons it is important we do so. I commend the motion to the House.

Question put and agreed to.